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Other Most Improved Pokemon
- Thread starter k13
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Well I think it's obvious it will still be used in OU from time to time, depending on the team, and if it requires the synergy from MGross (anyone else think of M. Bison just now? ) It's just with the new changes, it sure has been knocked down a peg or two.
In my opinion, it would have to be Kecleon. I had the same set for him in previous OU metagame, but with protean he is at least two times as good. It a great revenge killer and a great late game sweeper. Not to mention my particular sets on this guy are more trolly than Greninja protean. I have an example of a 5 pokemon sweep by protean Kecleon right here --> http:// pokemonshowdown. com /replay/pokebankoubeta-59646418
It was a good match, it kept me on my toes. You can see how deadly it is after a +1 attack stat boost.
It was a good match, it kept me on my toes. You can see how deadly it is after a +1 attack stat boost.
But that's just it isn't it. How many times in Gen V could Metagross REALLY be used viably over another pokemon? Needed a Bullet Puncher? Scizor. Liked the Steel/Psychic type's few resistances? Jirachi. It had no niche. Now, it definitely has at least one, possibly two if you count it being a fairy counter (although I admit that Scizor could probably do that better too ;) )
Cant tell if trolling
Seems like to me, the mon I keep having a more and more difficult time keeping off my team is Tentacruel. Not to say that I don't already love it, which I do, but it got a huge buff in relation to fairy types, which are almost all special based, and it has naturally good speed, and while it can't take on Galvantula directly, as long as the rest of the team can, it has clear body, so even if a Tentacruel check comes in, there's a good chance that it will get rid of sticky web before being knocked out because its speed will not be lowered. I know Defog will also be on a lot of flying types that won't lose speed, but rocks are going to hurt them, and given Defog's buff, there will probably be even more rocks to keep Defog users out.
You have to admit that the little guy sweeped pretty hard. I think Greninja outclasses him by a lot though. Protean is an improvement for Kecleon, but I don't think it's going to take him very far (Mainly due to his speed, if he was around 70-80 speed then he might've actually been a monster with choice scarf).
Haha, no, I'm serious. Kecleon is amazing.
I've gotten multiple sweeps with it, and its a huge troll. Blaziken comes in, it sets up on me, while i use hone claws or workup. I shadow sneak as he High Jump Kicks, shadow sneak again, its dead. Aegislash racks its brain thinking about what move to use, As I keep changing type strategically to confuse it. I run an adamant Kecleon with enough eve in speed to outspeed Aegislash and win priority wise. I think what really helps is that people underestimate Kecleon, or don't expect it to have a set like that they end up Rage quitting when their threats are dead.
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I must admit if I were using kecleon I'd be tempted to use it under trick room.. base 40 speed is poor.
Very impressed with how it counters Blaziken. ^_^ It does have a wonderful Movepool, and, whilst I think for OU its bulk is poor, in LU/NU its bulk is acceptable. I can see how it's working for you outside of trick room. Protean is clearly a major buff for it, i.e. it's actually usable now (and hey getting STAB on everything, combined with a set-up move of sorts, it's actually stronger than its base stats might suggest)
Very impressed with how it counters Blaziken. ^_^ It does have a wonderful Movepool, and, whilst I think for OU its bulk is poor, in LU/NU its bulk is acceptable. I can see how it's working for you outside of trick room. Protean is clearly a major buff for it, i.e. it's actually usable now (and hey getting STAB on everything, combined with a set-up move of sorts, it's actually stronger than its base stats might suggest)
I've been trying out Bisharp and I feel like I have to drop a mention in. His typing actually got better this gen, as he still resists Dark and Ghost despite the Steel nerf. In fact, the Steel nerf played into his hands because he can trash most rival steel types with Night Slash or Sucker Punch. Plus, his Steel STAB in Iron Head is a lot more worthwhile as it allows him to smash most of the Fairy-types really hard - the only ones I wouldn't favour it to beat mano a mano are probably Azumarill and Mega Mawile, and maybe Togekiss depending on if it's running Fire Blast or Aura Sphere.
Also, Defiant, which was already a good ability, is frigging amazing this gen because it means that being blocked by King's Shield means diddly squat and switching into Sticky Web is a free Swords Dance. Seeing as how his primary method of attacking is Sucker Punch, he doesn't care too much about lowered speed.
Overall, it matches up too well with the potential state of the metagame to not jump up one tier from UU and become a solid OU poke, in my opinion.
Also, Defiant, which was already a good ability, is frigging amazing this gen because it means that being blocked by King's Shield means diddly squat and switching into Sticky Web is a free Swords Dance. Seeing as how his primary method of attacking is Sucker Punch, he doesn't care too much about lowered speed.
Overall, it matches up too well with the potential state of the metagame to not jump up one tier from UU and become a solid OU poke, in my opinion.
Trick room would be good for it I guess, but I think i like it too much to make it have to rely on something like that. I had the same set in nu and since it got protean, I figured it could step into OU, It helps me deal with mega gengar, alakazam, espeon, chandelure (you can see how it OHKO's with +1 shadow sneak in my Pokemon showdown replay)
On the topic of trick room, did anyone mention, trick room/ gravity mega zaphros? Zap cannon is amazing in gravity.
Meh, more or less what I'm getting at is, it's just being reclassified to a lower tier. Not that it's viability in OU is any less (well technically with the added weakness it will be probably questionable to be used) those who use it for pure synergy of course will not have their usage reduced. Those using it as a side choice, may rethink that now... Is more or less what I'm trying to get at.
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96+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 334-394 (127.96 - 150.95%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Not bad, for sword form, though.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb (custom) Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 330-393 (90.65 - 107.96%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO
Can't switch in reliably.
But you still haven't account for Greninja. He also gets shadow sneak, and while he doesn't get hone claws, he does get PuP, which is arguably better since he doesn't need the attack boost. Because of this Kecleon can't really be OU (as much as I love him too) but he probably could be UU. (Of course this depends on where Greninja ends up, but it's pretty certain he will be OU)
Just to make it clear, when I was talking about Metagross, I wasn't referencing anything in regards to Aegislash, more so than the fact it gained new weaknesses. (Not derivative of any paticular Pokemon)
Not counting Mega forms, I do think there are a couple of other Pokemon that improved a good bit.
I've been testing out Mandibuzz lately, and she's actually pretty solid. She's one of the better Defog supporters I've used; the Stealth Rock weakness hurts, but being immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes is nice, and Mandibuzz definitely has the bulk and defensive typing to take a hit and remove hazards. The Knock Off buff was great for Mandibuzz since it gives her a fairly respectable STAB move that removes the opponent's item as well, which is an excellent form of support. The Overcoat buff is neat as well since it lets Mandibuzz switch in on random Sleep Powders and Spores from things like Breloom without worrying about actually taking the sleep. Once Pokebank is open, Foul Play will be an even greater asset. Now that Steel no longer resist Foul Play, Mandibuzz can do a solid chunk of damage to Pokemon like Genesect and Scizor that would have tanked the attack with ease last generation.
Scolipede is another one that I think really enjoyed a nice buff. Speed Boost alone is a fantastic addition to its arsenal. Scolipede is fast enough as it is, and its nearly impossible to outspeed after it gets a boost or two under its belt. Having Baton Pass to boot is just icing on the cake. If there's anything I've learned from Blaziken this generation and in DW OU last generation, it's that giving Speed Boost and Baton Pass to something with good offense is a good recipe for a solid Pokemon. Speaking of offense, Scolipede really appreciates the extra base 10 Atk bestowed upon it in XY. Scolipede was already a decent offensive threat last generation with Swords Dance, STAB Megahorn, and several good coverage moves, but the extra Atk and Speed Boost have the potential to make it a really solid late-game sweeper.
Those two are some of my personal favorite Pokemon that received several improvements (bar Mega forms, of course).
I've been testing out Mandibuzz lately, and she's actually pretty solid. She's one of the better Defog supporters I've used; the Stealth Rock weakness hurts, but being immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes is nice, and Mandibuzz definitely has the bulk and defensive typing to take a hit and remove hazards. The Knock Off buff was great for Mandibuzz since it gives her a fairly respectable STAB move that removes the opponent's item as well, which is an excellent form of support. The Overcoat buff is neat as well since it lets Mandibuzz switch in on random Sleep Powders and Spores from things like Breloom without worrying about actually taking the sleep. Once Pokebank is open, Foul Play will be an even greater asset. Now that Steel no longer resist Foul Play, Mandibuzz can do a solid chunk of damage to Pokemon like Genesect and Scizor that would have tanked the attack with ease last generation.
Scolipede is another one that I think really enjoyed a nice buff. Speed Boost alone is a fantastic addition to its arsenal. Scolipede is fast enough as it is, and its nearly impossible to outspeed after it gets a boost or two under its belt. Having Baton Pass to boot is just icing on the cake. If there's anything I've learned from Blaziken this generation and in DW OU last generation, it's that giving Speed Boost and Baton Pass to something with good offense is a good recipe for a solid Pokemon. Speaking of offense, Scolipede really appreciates the extra base 10 Atk bestowed upon it in XY. Scolipede was already a decent offensive threat last generation with Swords Dance, STAB Megahorn, and several good coverage moves, but the extra Atk and Speed Boost have the potential to make it a really solid late-game sweeper.
Those two are some of my personal favorite Pokemon that received several improvements (bar Mega forms, of course).
bisharp is also very nice, it ability takes advantage of sticky web king shield and things like lando-t. also its stab combo has become better with the addition of fairy and the defensive nerf of steel, there are less things that actually wall it. it can sweep teams very easily after a sd or even a defiant boost, it is def worth using
I can definitely see the novelty of Defiant against Sticky Web/ Still think he'll need some major support to work in ou, though.
How has nobody mentions aggron? Seriously? He lost his massive fighting type 4x weakness, trading it in for a pure steel type that only takes 1.5* damage at most. I know Recoiless headsmashes were good, but honestly? He dies to anything that KNOWS a fighting type move, not just fighting types. He was good in some situations, but a defensive tank with a 4x weakness to fighting AND the worst defensive typing? That was never going to end well. He will certaintly see some usage for his intended purpose now.
Oh, Metagross is totally OU. It just would be too much to put it in UU. It's certaintly got major drawbacks, but it's stats are too good to be "kicked back into the water"
Oh, Metagross is totally OU. It just would be too much to put it in UU. It's certaintly got major drawbacks, but it's stats are too good to be "kicked back into the water"
The problem is, all of those points you mentioned apply only to MegaAggron, meaning you cant use any other Mega like Gengar or Blaziken. Also, he lacks any form of Reliable Recovery outside of Rest, and getting the Sleep Status for two turns isnt gonna end well. Also, while he may wall Physical attackers to hell and back he still has a 70 Base HP and 80 Base Special Defense, making stuff like Fire Blast still do a decent amount, and as stated before, that's gonna take it's toll with no form of reliable recovery. It's good in it's own rights, but I'm not sure if running one justifies not being to use any other Mega.
My point is that it is now capable of doing it's job, and that is to be an unbreakable wall. Btw, RestTalk is a very viable set, or you can just pass wishes. But yes, I see your point, and it's very true.
Another improved pokemon is AeroDactyl. It now has more options than just a suicide lead. A reason to use it is that it can outspeed Mega Alakazam and Mega Gengar, and OHKO with crunch. Also it has access to the now legal Skydrop, as I stated earlier in the aerodactyl thread, combine with it's impressive speed might allow for some interesting moves. For example, it can outspeed one of it's counters, skydrop it and switch.
Another improved pokemon is AeroDactyl. It now has more options than just a suicide lead. A reason to use it is that it can outspeed Mega Alakazam and Mega Gengar, and OHKO with crunch. Also it has access to the now legal Skydrop, as I stated earlier in the aerodactyl thread, combine with it's impressive speed might allow for some interesting moves. For example, it can outspeed one of it's counters, skydrop it and switch.
I'm don't think that's how Sky Drop works. If you out speed a mon, you'll take them into the air first turn, and they can't attack. Next turn you attack them then they are able to attack you. Unless you meant something else entirely...
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