Umm, why isn't Klefki's best set, the SwaggerWave set, in the OP? It's a glaring omission. It's that set that makes Klefki so brilliant and viable in the first place.
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Pokémon Klefki
- Thread starter Kirbles
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Swag-Key is owned by Shuckle. Infestation to stop you from leaving, takes like 10% from +6 Foul Plays, has too little Atk to actually hurt himself in confusion, sticky web to support the rest of the team, Rest to heal off the damage and T-Wave.
Just saying. :-)
Just saying. :-)
Umm, okay? Because Shuckle is such a common sight in OU? It's not like a Pokemon having a counter, specially one as absurdly specific as that, means that its best set isn't worth posting.
Because Liepard does that set, arguably, better (STAB Foul Play)?
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SwagKey and Ditto make an excellent core. If your luck runs out and the opponent knocks you out with their +2 attack, Ditto comes in and now has that power, minus paralysis and confusion. Ground types may be immune to twave but almost all of them are physical attackers. Garchomp in particular better think twice about trying to switch in to stop Klefki when there's a Ditto around, or risk being forced into increased attack and Ditto comes in to revenge sweep.
I'm thinking Rotom-W would make for an excellent Key counter... I mean why not? Damn washing machine is already the epitome of anti-metagame this Gen... here it has immunity to spikes, paralysis, pitiful attack, and can inflict burn with respectable accuracy. I don't suppose burn's attack reduction is somehow used if the victim uses Foul Play? I mean, if the opponent has higher attack?
I'm thinking Rotom-W would make for an excellent Key counter... I mean why not? Damn washing machine is already the epitome of anti-metagame this Gen... here it has immunity to spikes, paralysis, pitiful attack, and can inflict burn with respectable accuracy. I don't suppose burn's attack reduction is somehow used if the victim uses Foul Play? I mean, if the opponent has higher attack?
How does that work with Klefki's superior typing and bulk across the board? Edit: Sorry, it has slightly less HP. Edit 2: I don't really know if doing more damage through Foul Play thanks to STAB is really a priority over the rest of the set
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What about this:
Klefki @ Leftovers
Prankster
Timid
Calm Mind
Flash Cannon
Substitute
Dazzling Gleam
An offisive Klefki, an oddity to use for sure
Klefki @ Leftovers
Prankster
Timid
Calm Mind
Flash Cannon
Substitute
Dazzling Gleam
An offisive Klefki, an oddity to use for sure
Been reading some of the EV investment questions and now i'm stuck. I'm running the Swagger Key set with Foul Play, Thunder wave and Sub, with Calm nature and 252 HP.
But my def and sp. def are an equal 128 each, because at the the time I didn't know what I was doing and didn't know which stat would be more important.
I do not have any Defence or Sp. Def lowering EV berries, so is there a moveset which could take advantage of an equal defensive spread?
Seems a shame to waste those evs when I spent ages getting a 31 IV in both defences and a 30 HP IV
But my def and sp. def are an equal 128 each, because at the the time I didn't know what I was doing and didn't know which stat would be more important.
I do not have any Defence or Sp. Def lowering EV berries, so is there a moveset which could take advantage of an equal defensive spread?
Seems a shame to waste those evs when I spent ages getting a 31 IV in both defences and a 30 HP IV
Smack the plain training bag in the super training window until you get a reset bag. Break it to remove all EVs on that pokemon. Doesn't take too long to happen upon one, and then if done right doesn't take too long to max EVs out again.
It just gets murdered by anything with the power to one-hit it's subs; since they will always attack after sub; thus Klefki has to sub again; instead of Calm Minding. The only way Klefki is setting up CM's is on a mono-attacking set with Swagger to allow it's subs to survive.
lol Said the Garchomp user.
What's the problem with Garchomp? I like Garchomp ._.
On-topic, I enjoy the Dual Screen/Twave set, since it's a pseudo Deoxys-S. Granted, I'd use Deoxys-D over it, but since I'm playing the actual game and not a sim that isn't possible right now.
1: There's nothing wrong with using Garchomp as he doesn't rely on luck (Sand Veil has been banned an eternity ago tbh) so it's a terrible comparision.
2: I barely use Garchomp??? Don't know where you got the idea that I'm spamming Garchomp cos I don't. At all (spoiler alert: stall's my thing)
3: I sense some sort of ad hominem coming from yr argument. "lol you use this so ur opinion suxx" is not at all a legit argument.
4: What makes you assume that Swagkey is anything worth defending? Honestly, if you're using it and can't take any criticism regarding that set, go complain somewhere else, you're not gonna find much support here, especially not when you come with such fallacies as some sort of defense.
....Be a good boy and read the rest of the (my) comments on SwagKey, will you?
I'm a fan of Swagger (Liepard is one of my favorite pokemon) but there are too many times where my opponent just got lucky and punched the kitty for a OHKO due to it's typing and stats. I will definitely be testing Swag build with the key.
Don't be condescending. Swagger+Twave is still the best set. Everyone here is insecure and overreacting to it, over-analyzing it and trying to shoot it down when it's obviously the set Klefki is going to be running in OU the most.
It's hilariously depressing to see the Suicide Lead set on here but not the Swagger set. It's way better.
Objectively, it is the "best" set to run, simply because it's so frustrating to deal with, and your opponent has a greater chance of forfeiting rather than sticking around.
However, just because Klefki CAN run this set doesn't mean it SHOULD. Anyone with any ounce of respect for their opponent wouldn't use this set because of how luck based it is and how upsetting it is.
Using Swagkey is a sure-fire way to make someone never want to play with you again. That means that Swagkey is essentially counterproductive to the spirit of strategic pokemon battling.
You can say "It's not my fault if others get mad at me playing within the rules," but ultimately, you're the one poking them with the stick and blaming them for getting upset.
It's simply unsportsman-like to use this "strategy" in the same way it's not right to spam double team and protect. It's just luck based and annoying.
LittleTLK
No, no no and no.
Swagger+Foul Play is a valid strategy, therefore I see no point in not using it.
The game offers plenty of ways to deal with the strategy. If priority swagger is deemed to be broken and unhealthy for the format, someone will ban it. Until that, deal with it.
I'm not saying Swagger+Foul Play is the best set Klefki can run; It's just people can't invalidate the moveset when it's still viable and nobody banned/ made a specific "clause" for it.
No, no no and no.
Swagger+Foul Play is a valid strategy, therefore I see no point in not using it.
The game offers plenty of ways to deal with the strategy. If priority swagger is deemed to be broken and unhealthy for the format, someone will ban it. Until that, deal with it.
I'm not saying Swagger+Foul Play is the best set Klefki can run; It's just people can't invalidate the moveset when it's still viable and nobody banned/ made a specific "clause" for it.
My dear sir, it looks like other people are not the only ones 'overreacting' to SwagKey here.
Sorry if I seemed condescending to you, but it is fairly obvious that you either did not ready any of the previous posts or are simply too fixated that SwagKey is the best set. I've already established the shortcomings of the set, mainly its occasional inability to perform even its one job even under perfect circumstances. I don't think the Suicide lead is the most recommended set either (Draining Kiss can't really heal enough to justify the moveslot), as I personally prefer if Klefki didn't die so quickly since it still has a lot it can do, but between its interesting support movepool combined with Prankster, you can't seriously believe that relying solely on luck is the best chance Klefki has in OU. SupportKey does what it can to support the team (which it usually can do); SwagKey flips a coin and hope the opponent doesn't manage to push its face in. If SwagKey has room for Spikes then it would be worth consideration, but pure Swag + T-Wave Klefki is by no means reliable at doing its sole job, hence why it isn't on the main sets.
It's not just that either: what are you doing with SwagKey that other Klefki sets cannot? Spread paralysis? Other Klefkis can just as easily fit Thunder Wave on their sets and stop most sweepers on a mere whim. Sweep teams? Maybe SwagKey can sweep some opponents that do not know how to play around Klefki or are just having a bad day, but other Klefkis can use Spikes to soften up opponents so its teammates that are much more effective at sweeping can do the job much more efficiently.
Yes, I know and have seen replays of SwagKeys taking out entire teams by themselves, but the same can happen if you use Dual Screens Klefki with Spikes alongside 5 sweepers, some of which that can take out bothersome Pokemon like Ground-types, Electric-types, Defoggers / Rapid Spinners, and bulky walls, and they don't have to deal with the luck factor as much as Klefki.
With that said...
It can indeed be a legit strategy, but other Klefkis can bring so much more to the table. Even if SwagKey has the most damage potential out of all the Klefkis, the less offensive versions of Klefki are rarely deadweight if they accomplish their jobs and allow a sweeper / setup sweeper to clean up the opposing team, which they can do with near guaranteed success, unlike SwagKey.
I never invalidated it. I said just because you can do it doesn't mean you should.
And "deal with it" is not a valid argument.
I'm making the point that SwaggerKey is so annoying and luck based that it's contrary to the proper competitive spirit, and serious players will not use it out of respect.
Well, If I could win a tournament in an unpredictable way using Swagger + Foul Play, I'd use it.
You want some arguments? To completely counter the strategy? Lum Berry + STAB earthquake sends Klefki back to his poké-ball.
You could also switch to an Own Tempo pokémon to enjoy the free status boost. Magic Bounce also works fine.
Of course, those aren't the best strategies available to counter it. But Swagger+Foul Play isn't the best strategy available out there.
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So what if "SwagKey" has flaws? It still deserves a set listing in the OP.
Jaiho
bandy legged troll
Not trying to be rude here, but the bolded part here is plain wrong. People will use any strategy they can to win games. People used the completely luck-based Moody to the point were it was even banned from Ubers. Assist + Prankster was heavily used in NU on everyone's favorite dark-type kitties, and that strategy was banned recently. Sand Veil Garchomp and Gliscor were the scariest shit you would see in OU at one point, and that got banned as well. Even FEAR pokes are used to the point where some of them even have online analyses (Aron, Smeargle, Whimsicott, Clefable and Solosis). With the exception of Aron, who also has an OU analysis, and Smeargle, who has an Lv. 1 analysis in every tier it is allowed in, all of these Pokes' FEAR strategies are solely in VGC, which as tournament, is probably comprised of serious players.
Again, just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should. My argument against using unsportsmanlike strategies isn't countered by citing people that already don't care about sportsmanship.
Competitive battling should be about skill, prediction, and a little luck, not tons of luck and little prediction.
Swagkey, while awesome, is unreliable. I don't want my victory to hinge upon whether the RNG gods smile upon me.
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