No one's really paying attention to the 454 metagame because Pokebank will be official in less than 2 months and it's not worth putting in the effort theorycrafting a metagame that will be relevant for such a short time.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Pokémon Mawile
- Thread starter radica
- Start date
- Status
I've had great success with mawile, though not as a sweeper.
I'm running 252 HP/ 252 att / 4 speed, adamant.
Swords Dance on the first turn, then sucker punch, or just straight up sucker punch if they're weak to dark. I can usually survive the first hit easily and sucker punch OHKOs nearly anything that doesn't resist it. I usually bring her in late game after I've dealt with the non-attackers or other threats, so she doesn't get set up on when I just spam sucker punch after that.
It's predictable to spam sucker punch towards the end of a match, but I find its value is taking out the most dangerous threats that my other teammates can't take, like opposing megas, especially mega gengar.
I'm running 252 HP/ 252 att / 4 speed, adamant.
Swords Dance on the first turn, then sucker punch, or just straight up sucker punch if they're weak to dark. I can usually survive the first hit easily and sucker punch OHKOs nearly anything that doesn't resist it. I usually bring her in late game after I've dealt with the non-attackers or other threats, so she doesn't get set up on when I just spam sucker punch after that.
It's predictable to spam sucker punch towards the end of a match, but I find its value is taking out the most dangerous threats that my other teammates can't take, like opposing megas, especially mega gengar.
Pretty much.
Or Sucker Punch, it doesn't trigger King's Shield, unlike what showdown would have you believe.
This is the set I've been using, I've gotta say it works well enough. MegaMawile has enough bulk to pass a sub to a frail teammate who can then set up, or proceed to sweep.
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate -> Huge Power
Nature: Adamant
EV's: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SpDef
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate -> Huge Power
Nature: Adamant
EV's: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SpDef
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
That's pretty similar to what I do, but I think Mawile's Speed can work for it in this case, since it has one of the slowest baton passes. You could swords dance/iron defense, then slow pass it to a fast sweeper safely.
Yup, what Sheddy61 said-- the time until pokebank is so short, it really isn't worth worrying about the actual current availability in terms of discussion.
I'd save this job for another 'mon, tbh. Mawile's subs aren't particularily bulky (base 50 HP limits it), and it has no recovery whatsoever. I'd want to save my mega slot and use something that could throw its weight around a bit more, leave this job to something that does it more effectively.
I agree with you completely. While Mega Mawile's bulk is decent, it's just that. Decent. Mawile is definitely no Conkeldurr. And I think it should be noted that Mawile has access to Pain Split come PokéBank, so he could possibly run a SubSplit set, but with his lack of amazing stats, I think he'll end up being one of those Mega's that go down to UU.
I agree to an extent. Mawile's HP really holds it back from an effective substitute set, but I think a baton pass set should still be considered due to both its typing and its slower speed, working much in the same way as probopass's voltswitch, allowing easier entry.
EDIT:
Bah, sorry, wrong thread again.
Last edited:
Mawile @ Mawilite
Jolly Nature
40 Hp/252 Atk/216 Spe
- Substitute / Taunt
- Pain Split / Taunt / Iron Head / Brick Break
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
I have been using this set to some success. With a Jolly Nature and 216 Speed EVs, you hit 209 Speed, which is just enough to outrun Pokemon with a base Speed of 86. Some noteworthy Pokemon include Choice Band Azumarill, Jellicent, Sylveon, Tyranitar, Vaporeon, Choice Band and Bulky Swords Dance Scizor, Florges, Togekiss and Rotom-W, all of which are either OHKOd, 2HKOd, or if weakened, are put into a position where they can be outsped and killed (this is really only important for Pokemon with priority, like Scizor, whose Bullet Punch would normally cause your Sucker Punch to fail). He's so much fun to use.
I'm still experimenting with teammates in Pokebank OU, but Rotom-W, Heatran, Landorus-T, Salamence, Vaporeon and Goodra have all had pretty interesting results so far. Mawile is really at home on teams that use Volt Switch, U-Turn, hazards, Intimidate users, and also Wish support. I'm thinking of trying out Genesect in tandem with Landorus-T and Rotom-W, maybe also find some room for Latios with Defog as an aggressive hazard remover ala Excadrill.
Oh, also, has anyone done any damage calculations to find out just how much Mawile needs to invest in his Attack stat in order to kill some things? For example, Mawile only needs 16 Atk EVs to OHKO Physically Defensive Togekiss with Iron Head after Stealth Rock, only 40 to 2HKO OU Utility Jellicent with Play Rough after Stealth Rock, only 88 to 2HKO Vaporeon after Stealth Rock - the list goes on. Mawile can't beat certain switch ins, like Heatran, without Brick Break (though, Substitute + Pain Split does let you wear down some faster Pokemon before switching out, or dent certainly Steel-Types on the switch before vamoosing), and is a magnet for status (which is partially why I am so fond of pairing up with Vaporeon - getting burned or paralyzed sucks), which Substitute aids in preventing, and the Speed investment lets him outrun Pokemon that would normally status him.
I am looking for a more efficient EV spread, I guess. If I don't have to max out his Attack, I don't want to, and if there are hits he needs to take, I would rather he survived them. Any ideas?
Jolly Nature
40 Hp/252 Atk/216 Spe
- Substitute / Taunt
- Pain Split / Taunt / Iron Head / Brick Break
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
I have been using this set to some success. With a Jolly Nature and 216 Speed EVs, you hit 209 Speed, which is just enough to outrun Pokemon with a base Speed of 86. Some noteworthy Pokemon include Choice Band Azumarill, Jellicent, Sylveon, Tyranitar, Vaporeon, Choice Band and Bulky Swords Dance Scizor, Florges, Togekiss and Rotom-W, all of which are either OHKOd, 2HKOd, or if weakened, are put into a position where they can be outsped and killed (this is really only important for Pokemon with priority, like Scizor, whose Bullet Punch would normally cause your Sucker Punch to fail). He's so much fun to use.
I'm still experimenting with teammates in Pokebank OU, but Rotom-W, Heatran, Landorus-T, Salamence, Vaporeon and Goodra have all had pretty interesting results so far. Mawile is really at home on teams that use Volt Switch, U-Turn, hazards, Intimidate users, and also Wish support. I'm thinking of trying out Genesect in tandem with Landorus-T and Rotom-W, maybe also find some room for Latios with Defog as an aggressive hazard remover ala Excadrill.
Oh, also, has anyone done any damage calculations to find out just how much Mawile needs to invest in his Attack stat in order to kill some things? For example, Mawile only needs 16 Atk EVs to OHKO Physically Defensive Togekiss with Iron Head after Stealth Rock, only 40 to 2HKO OU Utility Jellicent with Play Rough after Stealth Rock, only 88 to 2HKO Vaporeon after Stealth Rock - the list goes on. Mawile can't beat certain switch ins, like Heatran, without Brick Break (though, Substitute + Pain Split does let you wear down some faster Pokemon before switching out, or dent certainly Steel-Types on the switch before vamoosing), and is a magnet for status (which is partially why I am so fond of pairing up with Vaporeon - getting burned or paralyzed sucks), which Substitute aids in preventing, and the Speed investment lets him outrun Pokemon that would normally status him.
I am looking for a more efficient EV spread, I guess. If I don't have to max out his Attack, I don't want to, and if there are hits he needs to take, I would rather he survived them. Any ideas?
What would be the best moveset for a Trick Room Mega Mawile? Sorry if this has been posted before, my internet is too slow for me to bother checking. (I wish my internet was under Trick Room... but anyway...)
Mawile actually gets the elemental punches from the Pokemon Emerald Move Tutors, so Ice Punch/Thunder Punch/Fire Punch are all already available to it. I mean, after Pokebank is released, that is.
That said, the Elemental Punches offer redundant coverage sans very niche threats the rest of your team members should already be able to handle. Then again, Rough Play and Sucker Punch already offer near perfect coverage anyways, and Ice Punch, while it also hits Dragon-Types, has the bonus of nailing Gliscor that are looking to switch into your Rough Play and force you out with the threat of Earthquake. Mawile is a really good lure for bulky Ground-Types. It might be worth considering.
Brick Break is also an important option to consider, too, as you have the ability to deal significant damage to the more bulky Steel-Types, like Heatran, that love to sponge your Play Roughs, and Sucker Punch does insignificant damage.
But running an extra coverage move means you have to sacrifice a slot for Pain Split or Substitute. You could probably afford to get rid of Pain Split with a wish passer, but knocking off 25% of your opponent's health or more at times is pretty rewarding since it easier to kill with whatever you switch in.
Sure it can sucker punch Mega Gengar, and it's typing is a counter......but consider this. MegaGengar has Subsititute, which is going to stop sucker punch from hitting him, and Depending on the set Mega Gengar has, the next turn it could use HP fire and destroy you. Not many sets will run Hp fire but i think it's worth mentioning.
You should really quote what you're replying to because I had to control+f "Mega Gengar" in order to figure out that you weren't replying to me.
That said, you do not switch Mega Mawile into a Mega Gengar that already has the Substitute up. You should not be switching Mega Mawile into Mega Gengar for any reason at all, actually. Ignoring unlikely scenarios, Mega Mawile vs. Mega Gengar is actually in Mega Mawile's favor; none of Mega Gengar's attacks are able to OHKO Mega Mawile, and should Mawile be behind a Substitute, Mega Mawile can just spam Play Rough should it fear a potential Substitute from Gengar (which could actually cause it to lose), and 2HKO Mega Gengar without fear.
Let's use my set's EV spread, and also the common 252 HP one, for this demonstration:
252 SpA Timid Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 168-198 (66.93 - 78.88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Timid Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 168-198 (55.26 - 65.13%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Jolly Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 153-180 (58.39 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Adamant Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 167-197 (63.74 - 75.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And, of course, Sucker Punch OHKOs.
There should be few situations under which Mega Mawile actually loses to Mega Gengar.
This is a similar set I've been running, but with 252 HP. I find the added HP to be HUGE.
Only thing I don't like about it is the lack of Iron Head (since I run Taunt) and no Swords Dance. It works, though.
Since Mega Gengar has Shadow Tag, it's more like you CAN'T switch into Mega Gengar anyway. Unless you just happen to have a ghost on the field or some obscure shenanigans.
Tho some what unlikely, What if Gengar is running HP Fire? And there are lots of destiny bond sets that would allow Gengar to take Mawhile with him. Tho, Mawhile also seems amazing against some pokemon to because of Huge power. and if a MGengar switch in on Mawhile idky it would tho) if Mawhile is running taunt, he could force Gengar not to use subsitute, and then sucker punch him next turn which is amazing. So, I can actually see this thing being a MGengar killer if it has taunt. MGengar usally doesn't run HP fire so yeah, i think Mawhile would win most of the time i Guess.
252 SpA Mega Gengar Hidden Power Fire vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 168-198 (66.93 - 78.88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Gengar Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 168-198 (55.26 - 65.13%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Shadow Ball is a 120 Base Power move after STAB, and Hidden Power Fire is a 120 Base Power move factoring in the fact that it is Super-Effective. They deal about the same amount of damage, with the on-site damage calculator saying that Shadow Ball does marginally more damage.
If Mega Gar runs Destiny Bond and uses it to take Mega Mawile with him, that's still a move in your favor, usually, unless you needed Mega Mawile to take out more threats. Mega Gar does have tools to take the opponent down with him, but your opponent still has to lose Mega Gengar in order to remove Mawile from the field most of the time - you are probably in a winning position because of it.
Taunt is a good move on Mega Mawile but since you're slower than Mega Gengar you would have to use Taunt on the turn he Substitutes, and then Sucker Punch the two subsequent turns after that. He will probably switch, and leave you crippled. SubDisable Gar is easy to play around because he will more than likely use Disable the turn after you break his Substitute, so he can set up another Sub uninhibited. Just use Sucker Punch on the second turn, have it get disabled, then proceed to manhandle him with Play Rough. It's kind of a coin toss in some scenarios I guess, but it's also really, really risky for your opponent, too.
Oh yeah, I forgot about the speed for a second. They seem fairly even actually in a battle, tho I would have thought Hp Fire would do more...oh well. I would say a subHypnosis set on MGengar might work, but relying on Hypnosis is stupid unless Gravity is up. I don't know tho. And yeah using MGengar or a MMawhile to counter eachother seems stupid now that I think about it as you only get to use one Mega evo per battle and should use them for targets you know you have a chance against. So I guess i couldn't see this happening anyways.
I wouldn't bother running Taunt on MegaMawile to deal with MegaGengar. Wouldn't try using Sucker Punch on it, either:
252+ Atk Huge Power (custom) Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 297-351 (109.19 - 129.04%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power (custom) Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 396-468 (145.58 - 172.05%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Whatever Substitutes it makes trying to avoid Sucker Punch get broken by Iron Head, and if it doesn't use Substitute, it gets OHKO'd by Iron Head. Basic game theory says that no matter what MegaGengar uses, MegaMawile's best move is always to use Iron Head. End result is that MegaGengar will hit MegaMawile with only one move before it goes down.
MegaGengar's best bet is to either use Shadow Ball
252 SpA (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 168-198 (55.26 - 65.13%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and pray for a high roll and a crit on top of Stealth Rock, or use Destiny Bond if it's got it. Or swap out.
Of course, it's a different story if MegaMawile's weakened to the point where Shadow Ball could one-shot it. Then it's the usual mind games.
But some people run Sucker punch for the priority, not to deal with Mega Gengar, unless you run both Sp and Iron head and what ever else. I'm not sure if both moves are used together in sets, I didn't check lol.
I reckon most people would run Iron Head and Sucker Punch on the same set. Heck, I'd almost guarantee it. My point was that when it comes to MegaGengar, 252HP MegaMawile has the bulk to not risk giving MegaGengar a free Substitute by mispredicting with Sucker Punch; it can just spam Iron Head to win. It was more of an analysis of the matchup, rather than a build suggestion.
- Status