Pre-Bank OU: The Wheels of Death Keep Turning

Team Building
I'm not going to lie. Being a casual player at heart, I decided to base my team on my favorites and work from there. After some testing on cartridge with all of my favorites, and reading around on the forums, three of my all time favorites really stood out.
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It was torn between Mega Gengar and Mega Blaziken for the Mega Slot, but seeing as Scarf Gengar has some nice surprise factors with outspeeding Mega Gengar and not losing Levitate, I picked him over the more fragile version of Mega Blaziken, Life Orb Blaziken.
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While trying to come up with some members for the team, I stumbled upon Belly Drum Azumarill and decided to work with him as well, seeing how devastating he can become with a successful Drum. It was at this point that I heard wind of UltiMario's Pivot Aegislash and switched to that from the standard King's Shield version.
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While trying desperately to come up with a way to pull off a safe Belly Drum, I was reminded of the glory days of the good ole' Cleric Umbreon. Having lost set-up with Aegislash, I decided to replace that (but not Aegislash himself) with another personal favorite set-up sweeper of mine: the almighty Slam Clam, Cloyster.
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This team quickly shot me up the ladder and netted me tons more wins than loses, but that wasn't enough for me. The team was way too fragile. While bulky against non-SE moves, especially Special attacks, Umbreon was getting slammed way too much by the oh so common Fighting coverage as well as not being able to pull his weight at all whenever his set-up potential was blocked. It was at this point that I had run out of ideas and turned to this thread for help. While waiting for a response, I stumbled upon welsknight's team. It was a set-up Sweep team just like mine, but instead of Umbreon SubPassing to allow for set-ups, he had a much better idea in mind. One I liked OH so much better. It was at that point that I added Scolipede. It seemed Umbreon's glory days were a thing of the past, sadly, and I was just a little too late. His replacement was more than glad to fill in the gap, and oh boy did he pull his weight, being a crucial player in every victory since then.
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While a huge game sealer under the Sub, without his brother, Umbreon, Azumarill quickly lost his ace in the hole, becoming extremely fragile and dying when trying to Drum way more than he killed because of it. And his bulk and speed made it difficult for him to stand up to the OU threats that the rest of my team couldn't already handle even with STAB SEs. Sadly Azumarill had to go as well. He will be dearly missed, though. In his steed, on HynoLast's suggestion, he was replaced with Gliscor. Helping in filling in the HUGE glaring weakness of having no wall as well as taking out the gamesealing +2 Aegislash.

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While Aegislash was serving his role as a defensive pivot quite nicely, he could never truely force a Pokemon out. Instead he made himself vulnerable after taking them out, allowing them to switch in another threat and either take out Aegislash again, or get a boost off while I'm forced to either King's Shield or switch out of fear. That's where Goodra came in. On Kibblecat's suggestion, I added her in to allow some more meaty staying power, as well as proving a more terrifying moveset to make many of the team's threats that Gliscor can't force out stay in their Pokeballs out of fear. As for now, testing will continue and we'll see how things go!~

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Gliscor @ Toxic Orb (The Shield for the Sword)
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 248 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Earthquake​

Special thanks goes to HypoLast for this. My two biggest issues all solved in one sexy package: The lack of any sort of wall and Aegislash. With his beefy defense and average typing as well as his psuedo-Leftovers, "immunity" to status conditions, access to a recovery move, and Protect stalling, you can't go wrong. Combine all that together and throw it at Aegislash and you've got yourself an amazing wall for the team. Earthquake fills in a much needed coverage slot and deals with a few common weaknesses to the team (mainly Fire) as well as Super Effecting many common meta threats (such as Tyranitar and Mega Mawile).
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Goodra @ Choice Specs (Goopy Wall of Goo)
Ability: Gooey
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast
- Draco Meteor
Special thanks goes to Kibblecat for the Goodra. While Gliscor deals with walling off the pesky physical attackers, Goodra serves to protect him and the rest from the special attackers. Though instead of using the Assault Vest set for perfect special walling, she's running the Choice Specs, allowing her role as the defensive pivot to be filled out more effectively, forcing out attackers by dishing out a startling amount of damage (damage they didn't expect seeing as they'd expect the currently oh-so-common Assault Vest set). Either way, Goodra can switch in safely against a Pokemon that'd otherwise threaten the rest of my team and return the favor with a massive hit from her triple digit attacks combined with the maxed SpA EVs and the power granted by the Choice Specs. This also allows her to deal with more meaty threats that Gengar is too squishy to handle when speed isn't an issue.
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Scolipede
@ Focus Sash (Focus Pass)
Ability: Speed Boost
Nature: Impish
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Megahorn
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
This beauty is the wheel thatt helps get the team rolling. After some Speed Boosts (assisted by the Protect) and a Swords Dance or two, you can pass that delicious boost over to either Aegislash, Cloyster, or Blaziken and start ruining things. Focus Sash helps you set up without fear as long as they don't have Sand/Hail or a priority attack. Finally Megahorn rounds out the moveset so that Taunt doesn't decimate him as well as allowing him to cover for the Dark and Psychic weakness this team has.
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Cloyster @ White Herb (Slam Clam)
Ability: Skill Link
Nature: Adamant
- Shell Smash
- Razor Shell
- Rock Blast
- Icicle Spear
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe​

Cloyster runs the standard Shell Smash Skill Link set. I was running Rapid Spin over Razor Shell, and while arena hazards DO ruin Scolipede's day and generally beat up my team, the additional coverage to keep him from getting walled once he starts rolling helps a lot. Not much to say on him, really. He cleans up just as easily as Azumarill does after a successful Shell Smash (or Baton Pass from Scolipede and someone else you'll see later) and even puts in great work even if he's not Smashed yet.
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Gengar @ Choice Scarf (Secret Scarfer)
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe​

When most people see Gengar, they usually expect you to be using Mega Gengar. This allows me to use Mega Blaziken (seeing as Mega Gengar is a very popular choice) while making it a guessing game for them, seeing as LO Blaziken is a popular choice as well. Dazzling Gleam is there to deal with the plague to Gengar's well being, the Dark type, while also dealing with Dragons and the less threatening Fighting types. Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb are the obvious STABs. Finally, Thunderbolt is in there to deal with common types disadvantages to the rest of my team as opposed to Energy Ball and it has more accuracy than Focus Miss, reliability being something that this fragile creature desperately needs (and Dazzling Gleam deals with Dark types anyway). This rounds me out to 0 resistances and a plethora of Super Effectives, making him my prime revenge killer. Especially against Mega Gengar. Mega Gengar can pose a staggering threat to my team if Aegislash has fallen, and a Scarfed Gengar can be a huge surprise and ensure a guaranteed kill against an unprepared opponent, thinking that there is no way their speed master can be outsped by his weaker version. In fact, my Scarf Gengar has a perfect X-0 streak against Mega Gengars.
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Blaziken @ Blazikenite (The Ender of Worlds)
Ability: Speed Boost
Nature: Adamant
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe​

My undisputed favorite starter since his debut in Ruby and Sapphire, Blaziken once again blazes a trail through the meta and directly into Ubertalk territory. Seeing one of my favorite Pokemon of all time get a Mega Evolution while noone else I liked more got one practically ensured him a spot in my team. And he anything but hold them back. Enough of the fluff, let's get into the moves. Blitz and High Jump are the obvious STAB moves for his moveset, while Swords Dance fills in the obvious set-up slot since I'm not going for the coverage route. Instead that Swords Dance not only helps him tear through other teams, but also opens up access to a second Baton Pass user. After a few Speed Boosts (and maybe a Swords Dance, even), when I know that Blaziken is about to eat it, instead of wasting all those delicious stat boosts I've been working on a standard switch, I can Baton Pass any of them to any of the other members of my party. 1 SD and 2 turns of Speed Boosting can basically Shell Smash Cloyster while any number of Speed Boosts can easily help Aegislash turn from a constantly switching out Pivot to a down right mixed type coverage sweeper up there with Gengar. Anything more than that before the Pass is simply icing on the cake.

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In Closing: This is my first attempt at a competitive team, and I'm by far no stranger to other competitive rings so I know there are a lot of holes in it that need fixing. Namely the lack of walls (we'll see how Gliscor does), mostly coming from my lack of knowledge about not only the standard meta but also simply not knowing any of the good choices out there. Though I have been getting more wins than losses and even more blow-outs than close calls, so I know I'm on the right path. Major problems I've discovered have been Mega Mawile, Mega Kangaskhan, Talonflame, and Greninja.

I'd like to keep Blaziken and Gengar (though mostly the latter because he's the only Poke I've gotten the chance to perfect breed yet). Cloyster would be awesome to be able to keep, but they can go if needed. I can always find a place for them in my Doubles, WiFi Rotation, or a mono team if they are too much of a dead weight for this team.

Thank you for reading this and I'm open for suggestions. Please feel free to critique as hardly as you want, but remember to keep in mind that I'm new to this and team building is far from my strong point, so expect to see some novice mistakes in both the team and the Pokemon themselves.

Special Thanks: UltiMario for the Aegislash set up, welsknight for the indirect Scolipede inspiration, HynoLast for the Gliscor suggestion, and Kibblecat for the Goodra suggestion.

Credit: Xous54 for the Scolipede image and tomycase for the Mega Blaziken image.
 
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The team seems well thought out and solid. Having something to set up hazards might be nice to assist with one of your many sweepers but probably isn't necessary. One potential weakness is that I don't see how you deal with an Aegislash that gets +2/+4 on you. Sending out your own Aegislash is a pretty loose counter. Multiscale Dragonite is a possibility since it's also a threat:
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Fire Punch

This thing slays Aegislashes all day. Just make sure you don't break multiscale on entry hazards. It could maybe replace Azumarill (I've never been a fan of the Belly Drum sets, I feel like it's too fragile).

Another option might be a SubToxic Gliscor:
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 248 Def / 16 Spd
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Protect

This Gliscore takes I believe 7 Shadow Sneaks from a +2 Aegislash or 4 from a +6, and has a guaranteed 2HKO with EQ even when Aegislash is in Shield Forme and with Leftovers and using King Shield (tested on a 252/0). So Gliscor is pretty much a hard counter. Again, maybe replace the Azumarill with it.
 
The team seems well thought out and solid. Having something to set up hazards might be nice to assist with one of your many sweepers but probably isn't necessary. One potential weakness is that I don't see how you deal with an Aegislash that gets +2/+4 on you. Sending out your own Aegislash is a pretty loose counter. Multiscale Dragonite is a possibility since it's also a threat:
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Fire Punch

This thing slays Aegislashes all day. Just make sure you don't break multiscale on entry hazards. It could maybe replace Azumarill (I've never been a fan of the Belly Drum sets, I feel like it's too fragile).

Yeah, Aegislash was devouring my team alive once it got off a single Swords Dance. As for Belly Drum Azumarill, he was working absolute WONDERS back when I was running SubPass Umbreon. The second I got that little blue monster under the Sub, it was over. He'd be fragile and die pretty quickly, but BOY did he take out a LOT of Pokemon before finally eating it, practically sealing the deal for me and the rest of my 4.75 remaining Pokemon.

The main issue with that was it only worked when someone tried to set up on me. "Oh, this person is going to do some slow Toxic Stalling. Let me just get out my Klefki/Ferrothorn and set up completely unimped--Belly Drum? Awwwwwwwww...shit..." The issue there was that it seems that rarely anybody has a set-up Poke right now, so he mostly was either OHKO'd, forced out, or the Sub kept breaking the turn I Baton Passed, effectively just selecting "Pokemon" and then Azumarill.

I might test out this guy after I test out this next beauty...

Another option might be a SubToxic Gliscor:
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 248 Def / 16 Spd
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Protect

This Gliscore takes I believe 7 Shadow Sneaks from a +2 Aegislash or 4 from a +6, and has a guaranteed 2HKO with EQ even when Aegislash is in Shield Forme and with Leftovers and using King Shield (tested on a 252/0). So Gliscor is pretty much a hard counter. Again, maybe replace the Azumarill with it.

This looks pretty perfect for an Aegislash counter. My main issue with team construction is the lack of knowledge on who checks what, seeing as despite playing since Blue, I was a pretty caj up until the announcement of the new IV breeding. I've always been a fan of Gliscor and he was in my list of general "pool" of Pokes I was going to start testing tomorrow (today was going to be Berryslash Aegislash). With this, now I think I can move back to Life Orbing.
 
Yeah I'm a big fan of the Gliscor, I'm probably gonna IV breed mine this weekend and start using it. I guess it isn't technically a SubToxic set too, since it doesn't actually run sub :P
 
Yeah I'm a big fan of the Gliscor, I'm probably gonna IV breed mine this weekend and start using it. I guess it isn't technically a SubToxic set too, since it doesn't actually run sub :P
True. ProtToxic doesn't sound as cool either. Called it the Shield from the Sword anyway, because that's 50% of his entire purpose. XD And yeah, since Gengar, Blaziken, and Aegislash are going to be in the team no matter what unless they really really REALLY just are bringing it down, I'm working on them while I get the team tweeked. Already got Gengar last weekend. This weekend will be Blaziken.

BTW, who do you think I should lead with with the new team? I'm admittedly pretty damn bad at choosing a lead. I'm great at the mid-game and the clean-up, but boy can I never decide who to send out first.

Also, updated the OP. Not just with the new addition, but with a Team Building history as well as IMAGES!~

EDIT: Oh, btw, mind sharing the insight on the EV set-up since it's not min-maxed? Would be good to know both for possible future edits as well as good learning material for future sets.
 
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In a team like this your lead is going to heavily depend on what you're fighting, if they have Greninja or Smeargle it's probably not too bad to lead with Cloyster with the idea to KO their hazard enabler then rapid spin and be sitting pretty, otherwise Scolipede is never going to be too bad to lead with. Worse case you protect, SD, protect, baton pass.

The EV spread is set up so that it has maximum resilience against a 31IV/252EV Atk Aegislash, if you use Roost and Protect appropriately then you should never die even against a +6 Aegislash. The EVs in speed are there mostly to outspeed max speed adamant Scizor which makes Gliscor a solid counter or at least check depending on the defensive spread on the Scizor. Other notable things you outrun are max speed adamant Tyranitaur and max speed Jolly Azumarill.
 
Hey, thanks for the shout-out on Scolipede!

Speaking of which, another way to counter Aegislash would be to replace Scolipede's Megahorn with Earthquake. Scolipede has good bulk and defense, and can take a couple of hits from Aegislash (even boosted). Use Swords Dance the first turn in, and often the other player will start setting up as well, leaving you free to Earthquake it death after Swords Dance, Earthquake 2HKOs Aegislash in Shield Forme, 1HKO in Blade Forme.

Megahorn does provide some useful coverage for your team, though, specifically for Malamar (Topsy-Turvy wrecks stat-boosts teams like ours), so it's kind of a toss-up.
 
So, status update on the new addition:

OH
MY
GOD

Gliscor is so fucking awesome. Holy shit. I've been using Substitute over Roost, though, and it's been working wonders. The turn they take trying to eat through the sub and the turn spent protecting practically evens out the HP used on the Sub as well as protecting from status conditions of inevitably slower Pokemon. When I bring him in from my 1 HP Scolipede (to get more use out of him after a super charged Focus Pass), and he has a +1 to Speed, he can more often than not, place down a Sub right before the attack, effectively hovering at full health without issue. If they give up and switch, bam, the Sub is still there and you can begin Toxic/Quaking. If you feel like you can tank a blow, you can even go for a quick Toxic and then stall them to a switch, getting you that sitting Sub. Finally, if they can outright dominate your Gliscor, well then there's no reason you shouldn't be switching out in the first place.

How much better than Sub is Roost? I haven't tested it yet. I simply punched in the info you gave me, and I guess Showdown autocompleted and gave me Sub or I muscle memoried Sub on accident or I misremembered or SOMETHING. Point is, I've been testing with that the whole time, but I bet you've been testing with Gliscor a LOT longer than I have.

In a team like this your lead is going to heavily depend on what you're fighting, if they have Greninja or Smeargle it's probably not too bad to lead with Cloyster with the idea to KO their hazard enabler then rapid spin and be sitting pretty, otherwise Scolipede is never going to be too bad to lead with. Worse case you protect, SD, protect, baton pass.

The EV spread is set up so that it has maximum resilience against a 31IV/252EV Atk Aegislash, if you use Roost and Protect appropriately then you should never die even against a +6 Aegislash. The EVs in speed are there mostly to outspeed max speed adamant Scizor which makes Gliscor a solid counter or at least check depending on the defensive spread on the Scizor. Other notable things you outrun are max speed adamant Tyranitaur and max speed Jolly Azumarill.

Cloyster leading when I see Greninja has been going well so far. While Gliscor can lead, I'm always terrified of losing him early since he's been such a HUGE help when dropped at the right time. I once had a guy quit with 4 Pokemon once I had Sub survive for a turn before I even got to start Quaking.

BTW, I'm bad at calcing stats on the fly, so do you know what his stats are comparable to Base Speed wise, and what 252 EVs in Speed would probably equate out to Base Speed wise? Just so I can know if Gliscor has the lead on them or not since Protect might scout moves but does a terrible job at scouting Speed.

Hey, thanks for the shout-out on Scolipede!

Speaking of which, another way to counter Aegislash would be to replace Scolipede's Megahorn with Earthquake. Scolipede has good bulk and defense, and can take a couple of hits from Aegislash (even boosted). Use Swords Dance the first turn in, and often the other player will start setting up as well, leaving you free to Earthquake it death after Swords Dance, Earthquake 2HKOs Aegislash in Shield Forme, 1HKO in Blade Forme.

Megahorn does provide some useful coverage for your team, though, specifically for Malamar (Topsy-Turvy wrecks stat-boosts teams like ours), so it's kind of a toss-up.

I love Megahorn to death. The only reason I'd consider changing it is because while Megahorn helps cover what hurts the rest of the team, Earthquake helps cover what hurts Scolipede. Also, fuck the accuracy on that damn thing.

And no prob with the shoutout ^-^ I like to give credit where credit is due in hopes that someone will do the same if I ever inspire them. Feel free to use my Gengar if you need a Special Sweeper ;) I'm quite proud of the fucker.
 
For calculating stats you can use either any number of stat calculators on the web or the formula is:
(IV + 2 * Base + EV / 4) * Level / 100 + 5, then * 1.1 if the nature is beneficial and * 0.9 if the nature is hindering. This actually simplifies really nicely for level 50 pokemon with 31 ivs and 252 evs in the stat you're calculating, it simply becomes 52 + Base, then apply the nature multiplier. For example Azumarill has 50 base speed so max speed jolly Azumarill is 102 * 1.1 or 112.2 which becomes 112 (ignore decimals). The HP formula is slightly different but anything involving damage should be precalculated anyway.
 
For calculating stats you can use either any number of stat calculators on the web or the formula is:
(IV + 2 * Base + EV / 4) * Level / 100 + 5, then * 1.1 if the nature is beneficial and * 0.9 if the nature is hindering. This actually simplifies really nicely for level 50 pokemon with 31 ivs and 252 evs in the stat you're calculating, it simply becomes 52 + Base, then apply the nature multiplier. For example Azumarill has 50 base speed so max speed jolly Azumarill is 102 * 1.1 or 112.2 which becomes 112 (ignore decimals). The HP formula is slightly different but anything involving damage should be precalculated anyway.
I can easily find a couple damage calcs. I just wanted an easy way to see if I can outspeed things, so I can know what Base Speed I'm looking for when checking Bulbapedia's Base stats section on the fly. So the decimals are truncated and not rounded?
 
Yeah they're truncated. That Gliscor should outspeed max speed beneficial nature Base 50, max speed neutral nature Base 60, no speed neutral nature base 95. Those are calculations I'm just doing on the spot, if I remember correctly he actually outspeeds max speed beneficial base 55 and max speed neutral base 65, but you should probably double-check that.

EDIT: By the way to reverse the process take your speed stat at level 50 and do the following calculations.
1. If your target is beneficial nature divide by 1.1, if they are hindering nature divide by 0.9
2. Subtract 20.5
3. Subtract the number of EVs you suspect your target has divided by 8 (so if you suspect max EVs subtract 31.5)
-The resulting number is the base speed you will tie with, if your target has a lower base speed you're good.

OR

3. Subtract your target's base speed.
4. Multiply by 8.
-The resulting number is how many speed EVs your target must have to tie in speed. If you suspect they have less you're good.
 
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Yeah they're truncated. That Gliscor should outspeed max speed beneficial nature Base 50, max speed neutral nature Base 60, no speed neutral nature base 95. Those are calculations I'm just doing on the spot, if I remember correctly he actually outspeeds max speed beneficial base 55 and max speed neutral base 65, but you should probably double-check that.

EDIT: By the way to reverse the process take your speed stat at level 50 and do the following calculations.
1. If your target is beneficial nature divide by 1.1, if they are hindering nature divide by 0.9
2. Subtract 20.5
3. Subtract the number of EVs you suspect your target has divided by 8 (so if you suspect max EVs subtract 31.5)
-The resulting number is the base speed you will tie with, if your target has a lower base speed you're good.

OR

3. Subtract your target's base speed.
4. Multiply by 8.
-The resulting number is how many speed EVs your target must have to tie in speed. If you suspect they have less you're good.
Thanks for all that. It has helped a LOT when deciding my moves for the turn.

BTW, you didn't answer my question about Sub VS Roost on Gliscor. What's your insight on the matter?
 
BTW, you didn't answer my question about Sub VS Roost on Gliscor. What's your insight on the matter?

Oh yeah, I think either is fine, I usually use Roost just because it's super annoying to set up a sub just to get hit by an infiltrator or a random HP ice, Roost is just slightly safer in my eyes. I'm actually running Sub on my Gliscor right now though, the current meta is nicer than I had originally expected towards Sub.
 
Oh yeah, I think either is fine, I usually use Roost just because it's super annoying to set up a sub just to get hit by an infiltrator or a random HP ice, Roost is just slightly safer in my eyes. I'm actually running Sub on my Gliscor right now though, the current meta is nicer than I had originally expected towards Sub.
Yeah. I've yet to face an Infiltrator with my Sub up. Just 1 Crobat (which had to have been since it's the only good ability on him) and 2 Malamars (which could have easily been Contrary). I usually Protect first turn unless I know I can take them and they don't run status so I can get Poisoned (switched into a Thunder Wave once and it really hurt), so after that, I can see if they run a dangerous move, special attacks, or both. Which then not even Roost can save me and I just switch accordingly.

EDIT: Yeah, Gliscor is staying on my team. I might never get rid of this guy. I just had a HORRIBLE opening with a bunch of really bad calls (Like I brought out Aegislash to hopefully kill Clawitzer since I knew he was going to Aura Sphere my Cloyster, but he tanked Shadow Sphere at only 50% so I didn't think he would finish him off with Shadow Sneak. Then on a damaged Blaziken VS Greninja, I went for Flare Blitz thinking he'd do a Shadow Sneak to make me crash, and instead he went for Waterfall, so I took recoil AND super effective, leaving him at a sliver, so my Aegislash [thinking he didn't have Shadow Sneak at that point] got Shadow Sneaked when he was trying his own Shadow Sneak), and brought it back at 2-4 by sacrificing Gengar on Goodra (I knew that Gengar couldn't kill him) so Scolipede could be at full health (had to switch off Gliscor to ironically kill it with Gliscor) and boost the everloving heck out of Gliscor (he used nothing but Dragon Pulse all three turns on Scolipede and it didn't even trigger the sash, so Gliscor was safe), who proceeded to sweep all 4 members on his team with Earthquake including a Vivillon who I Toxic stalled to death.

Gliscor 2stronk
 
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Hey - here's my second requested rate of the day, so here goes, but much like welsknight's team, I don't see an awful lot to change since it seems a pretty strong composition. Having written the rest of the rate, now I'm coming back and editing in this bit, and the general gist of what I've done is look at what you've got and decide if everything you've chosen is the optimal for doing what they do; whether they're the best pokemon for the job, and then whether they're set up optimally. Generally, everything you've got is the best at what it does, or else fills its own niche.

I'm going to start by clearing up an uncertainty that I've got at a glance:

How are you finding the Aegislash build working? The way you put it seems like it doesn't do a bad job of what it's supposed to, but even with Aegislash in there, I can actually see room for something even more straight-up heavy hitting in your team, as everything that's going to be doing some damage so far takes set-up or is a Toxic staller. Furthermore, for a defensive pivot to be really reliable, they'll need to have ways of sticking around for the long haul, which is why Aegislash often runs defensive spreads with Kings Shield, Swords Dance, and Lefties - he's like a physical Reuniclus, in that he's there to bring in on something that can't threaten him rather than something that he threatens, and the set-up is to provide the threat against 'bad' players rather than to elaborate on one that's already there (differently to SD on Lucario or Blaziken, for example, who run Swords Dance because it turns something that threatens but can be walled, in to a win condition). Although I'm often reluctant to suggest multiple choice users, just because they can slow down the team a little (whereas, conversely, a good defensive pivot like what you're trying to run can really provide some momentum in the form of easy switches), I think a bulky (or even otherwise) choice set could provide all the pivot you need, while presenting something that your opponent really can't afford to switch anything in to. The general gist of a lot of Specs users, is that even if they've got a resistant wall to switch in, they'll take a dent; consider testing the following few sets, of which there are a few alternatives:

Goodra@Choice Specs
Modest w/ Gooey/Sap Sipper
232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe
Draco Meteor - Sludge Bomb - Fire Blast - Focus Blast/Thunderbolt

Dragon and Fire hit everything for at least neutral except Heatran and (now) Azumarill; Focus Blast covers that gap best, but Thunderbolt won't miss in normal circumstances and hits Gyarados harder. Its' also a better option for 2HKOs on a lot of bulky waters (that often favour Def over SpD) than Draco-Meteor, even though the initial STAB Draco-Meteor hits harder than a 2x Thunderbolt. Some Speed investment to outspeed fairly common uninvested Base 80s. Draco Meteor is a safe bet almost 90% of the time, that 10% being when you predict a fairy switch in. This guy's the bulkiest of the three.

Salamence@Choice Specs
Rash/Hasty w/ Intimidate
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Draco Meteor - Hydro Pump - Fire Blast - HP Electric/Brick Break

What's that? SpecsMence? That's right - us with big long beards and old wrinkly-aged eyes will remember this guy from Gen4. Similarly to Goodra, Dragonfire has near-perfect coverage, and Hydro Pump is there to hit Heatran who resists it. Unfortunately his hardest hit against Azumarill is a SE Hidden Power Electric (or Poison/Grass), which is favoured over alternate types because again, it hits Gyarados hard who will expect to come in and Intimidate a physical set, and set-up while you switch; it also hits the only other fairy who'll pose much of an offensive threat if he can force you out - Togekiss. After the nerfs to Fire Blast and Hyrdro Pump (despite the nerf to HP), a SE HP will hit harder than a neutral Hydro Pump/Fire Blast. This guy's the fastest and share's Aegislash's surprise-factor.

Heatran@Choice Specs
Modest w/ Flash Fire
228 HP / 252 SpA / 28 Spe
Overheat/Fire Blast - Earth Power - Dragon Pulse/Hidden Power Ice - Flamethrower/Hidden Power Grass/Hidden Power Electric

Again, this guy can get perfect coverage with a combination of Fire/Dragon/Ground; HP Grass and Electric hits waters who'd like to switch in to you hard but Flamethrower adds some reliability to his STAB which can come in handy - Grass hits Azumarill and Water/Ground dual-types but Electric hits Waters without Ground-dual-typing, and hits Gyarados hardest, take your pick; generally one of these is best over Flamethrower. 28 Speed will outspeed uninvested Base 80s. HP Ice is listed as an alternative to Dragon Pulse, as it hits Garchomp, Dragonite and Salamence harder; two STAB overheats or STAB Fire Blasts will still hit Togekiss harder than two SE STAB HP's though. If you choose HP Ice you're locked out of Grass/Water, and your team has Ice coverage. This guy has the best defensive typing of the three and a more useful ability, so shares Goodra's bulk, and has the highest SpA of the three; with a Flash Fire boost he'll 100% have the biggest damage potential, even more so than Aegislash.

So, yeah, they're a lot to take in, but the idea is as such - they've not got as much raw power as Aegislash, but they're all faster and don't have to choose between bulk and offence; although they're not going to hit as hard off the bat, they're not sacrificing any bulk to run a mixed set, and you'll often find them doing more damage because they've got more super-effective coverage; Ghost and Fighting (which Aegi provides) both exist elsewhere on your team, and specific Steel-type moves don't offer coverage that you're desperate for (Ice and Rock are more than covered, and fairies won't give you drastic problems, with coverage coming from Sludge Bombs).

I know, it's a sketchy explanation that I'm struggling to word properly, but my instinct is that any of those three will fit better in your team. I'd definitely say Heatran was the best option, and if there were a specific 'suggestion' that I was making here it'd be him, with SpecsMence just being a surprise combined with nostalgia (not that he doesn't do his job well - he does) and Goodra being an alternate option worth testing. Since you're running pre-bank it'll be Goodra, though. Although the solution I've suggested is pretty huge, Aegi's drawbacks that I've observed are nitpicks which are based on how you play him rather than how me matches up anyway.

Next thing - how effective have you found Rapid Spin over Razor Shell on Cloyster? He's your only Stealth Rock weakness on the team (bar Scollipede; more in a moment), and since you're running White-Herb, you don't want him switching out much once he's set up anyway - all it does is save you from a 1HKO from Breloom's unboosted Mach Punch, Lucario's boosted Extremespeed/Bullet Punch and Scizor's unboosted Bullet Punch (as the main examples), and although arguably you can kill Breloom at this point, you can't kill Scizor or Lucario in one turn without Razor Shell anyway, having survived only one priority hit, so you'll be switching out regardless, and Gliscor 100% walls those two and forces them out with EQ. Since you're not providing SR support, running Life Orb on Cloyster nets him a couple of nice 1HKOs after a Smash too - Standard Forretress and Specially Defensive Rotom, with Icicle Spear and Rock Blast, too. Picking Razor Shell or Hydro Pump (Naive nature for the latter) means you won't be forced out of your boosts anywhere near as often by any particular steel types that wall just Icicle Spear and Rock blast (like bulky Heatran, Mawile, Aggron, to name a few examples). I mentioned Scollipede - sure, he likes Spin support, but I'd imagine you'll be in a situation where you want to lead with him anyway, more often than not, and he's easy to pick off with priority if he comes in on 1HP; plus, losing such coverage on a Pokemon that really wants to keep his boosts once he's found an opportunity to set up, is a big price to pay for the sake of supporting 1 of 2 Baton Passers. On top of that, you've got two spikes immunities and four toxic spikes immunities (including Scollipede who removes Toxic Spikes just by switching in). Basically what I'm saying is sure, Rapid Spin support is great, and you've picked up on that, but the added coverage from another STAB (or even just the priority from Ice Shard if you so desire, but I wouldn't recommend it) is better.

Finally, since he's attracted attention here - Gliscor; he's great, as he is, and by all means, try him out with Roost, but you can indefinitely stall with SubProtect and Poison Heal, even around stuff that will guaranteed 1HKO you, provided you play smart, so I'm sure you'll find Sub a much better option than Roost. I love this Pokémon and you're running my favourite set. Kudos!

I set out not thinking I'd need to write much, but you'll find a lot of this is based on my take on how you'll be playing with this, rather than the actually composition of the team, as I really don't see much to change there, other than the two things I've mentioned (Aegislash and Cloyster). Hope I've given you some things to think about, even if you don't implement anything I'm suggesting.
 
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For Aegislash, Iron Head is currently being tested for replacement, and one of the things I was considering replacing it with was King's Shield. If I ran the same set (Shadow Sneak, Shadow Ball, Sacred Sword) with King's Shield replacing Iron Head, how would your opinion change of him? He's one of the guys that I'd be torn to replace since he's my second favorite after Golurk and it'd be pretty devastating to lose yet another since Golurk is sadly bad in OU as well as me being unable to find a spot for my third fav (Trevenant). Though if he really has to go, I can always use him in my Rotation Battle team I'm going to come up with after I finalize this team and make it in-game. (God, nothing is better than having a set-up move on a Rotation team and even moreso, nothing can beat THAT when it has a punishing Protection that can switch in at any given moment, so he'd easily make it in that no problem).

If he really should be replaced, though, here are some comments I have on his replacements: If at all possible I want to keep the team completely legit, so I want to avoid Hidden Power users and non-breedables as much as possible to keep IVs maxed. Hidden Power less so since you CAN breed a perfect Hidden Power user, and you're not suggesting Hidden Abilities for Salamance (why drop a switch in ability for a Choice user when they're supposed to, you know, switch in constantly?) so he won't be as painful to get. Though if I REALLY need Heatran, I guess I can edit his IVs and Nature JUST for him. Also, I've been seeing a lot of Assault Vest Goodras running about and they seem really effective on paper. Would it be a bad idea to keep the set you suggested for Goodra and then replace Choice Specs with Assault Vest? His Special Defense is already pretty damn high. And if I do that, would his spread or ability change at all, or stay the same?

As for Cloyster, as much as I hate Stealth Rocks (Scolipede and Blaziken both eat 25% off it and I usually open with Cloyster if I see an arena hazarder so I can set-up, sweep, then Rapid Spin once I feel like I've been walled in), there have been many a time when I'm using it and go "Damn, I could really use Razor Shell right about now". Also, while I agree wholeheartedly that Razor Shell adds for some GREAT coverage as well as keeping me from being forced out as easily, Rock Blast neutrals on Scizor (resisted by Steel but super effective against Bug) for 125 BP while Razor Shell hits only 112.5 after STAB. Or is there something I'm missing? Also, the reason I run Rapid Spin is because I'm hazard bait if I attempt to set-up. I guess I can just mitigate that by just switching to Blaziken immediately if I see a Ferrothorn/Forretress or Gliscor (Thunder Wave) if I see Klefki?

In closing, while I completely agree on Cloyster and will test Razor Shell, is there a way I keep fix Aegislash's defensive pivot issues with King's Shield, or even then is he completely outclassed by Goodra/Salamence/Heatran?
 
For Aegislash, Iron Head is currently being tested for replacement, and one of the things I was considering replacing it with was King's Shield. If I ran the same set (Shadow Sneak, Shadow Ball, Sacred Sword) with King's Shield replacing Iron Head, how would your opinion change of him? He's one of the guys that I'd be torn to replace since he's my second favorite after Golurk and it'd be pretty devastating to lose yet another since Golurk is sadly bad in OU as well as me being unable to find a spot for my third fav (Trevenant). Though if he really has to go, I can always use him in my Rotation Battle team I'm going to come up with after I finalize this team and make it in-game. (God, nothing is better than having a set-up move on a Rotation team and even moreso, nothing can beat THAT when it has a punishing Protection that can switch in at any given moment, so he'd easily make it in that no problem).

If he really should be replaced, though, here are some comments I have on his replacements: If at all possible I want to keep the team completely legit, so I want to avoid Hidden Power users and non-breedables as much as possible to keep IVs maxed. Hidden Power less so since you CAN breed a perfect Hidden Power user, and you're not suggesting Hidden Abilities for Salamance (why drop a switch in ability for a Choice user when they're supposed to, you know, switch in constantly?) so he won't be as painful to get. Though if I REALLY need Heatran, I guess I can edit his IVs and Nature JUST for him. Also, I've been seeing a lot of Assault Vest Goodras running about and they seem really effective on paper. Would it be a bad idea to keep the set you suggested for Goodra and then replace Choice Specs with Assault Vest? His Special Defense is already pretty damn high. And if I do that, would his spread or ability change at all, or stay the same?

As for Cloyster, as much as I hate Stealth Rocks (Scolipede and Blaziken both eat 25% off it and I usually open with Cloyster if I see an arena hazarder so I can set-up, sweep, then Rapid Spin once I feel like I've been walled in), there have been many a time when I'm using it and go "Damn, I could really use Razor Shell right about now". Also, while I agree wholeheartedly that Razor Shell adds for some GREAT coverage as well as keeping me from being forced out as easily, Rock Blast neutrals on Scizor (resisted by Steel but super effective against Bug) for 125 BP while Razor Shell hits only 112.5 after STAB. Or is there something I'm missing? Also, the reason I run Rapid Spin is because I'm hazard bait if I attempt to set-up. I guess I can just mitigate that by just switching to Blaziken immediately if I see a Ferrothorn/Forretress or Gliscor (Thunder Wave) if I see Klefki?

In closing, while I completely agree on Cloyster and will test Razor Shell, is there a way I keep fix Aegislash's defensive pivot issues with King's Shield, or even then is he completely outclassed by Goodra/Salamence/Heatran?

Well, outclassed is the wrong word, for the Aegislash debate, since they're doing slightly different jobs even where I've suggested it, but it's more a question of you using him for something that he doesn't do as well as other Pokémon, so it's just as viable to pick something new who's niche adds more, rather than replace him with something that does the same job better when for defensive pivoting you've already got Gliscor anyway. If you want a true defensive pivot then Rotom-W is the way to go here, but you've got Gliscor who does that just as well too. Really the thing I see wrong with Aegislash is you're taking an all-attacking-move set on something that isn't designed to work without being able to support himself, but because he supports himself so well, being a set up sweeper is what he does best. Which is why I suggested some things that can simply take a chunk out of anything that switches in on them, even if they needed to switch out. Re: Hidden Ability on Salamence; it is available, via friend safari, but it's Moxie, which is kind of wasted on a Special set, and Intimidate is sometimes preferred anyway, even on the physical ones.

The significant problem with using Aegislash as a defensive pivot is that he won't force many sweepers out once they're in (and/or set up), and the ones he does force out are things like Gengar who don't mind coming out since they don't run set ups. This comes because he can only reliably set up on things that haven't already set up themselves. A bulky specs set will, however, often come in and either get a KO or force a switch, taking a large chunk out of something in the process. Assault vest is a possibility, but the point of the Goodra set (and the other two) is sheer power; you're trying to switch in and surprise people with a heavy hit, which is why I see room for a specs set.

The best way I see for keeping Aegislash as a defensive pivot is to return to the standard set running a defensive spread, lefties, with Kings' Shield - Swords Dance isn't strictly necessary, if you're not using him as a set-up sweeper.

Re: Razor Shell; Scizor was a mistype - opposing Aegislash can be included in that list, although you need to be careful around Kings Shield, and, as you picked up on and I didn't, Klefki. Regarding Ferro/Forretress, take a Life Orb over White Herb and you'll kill Ferro with one Icicle Spear after a Shell Smash; Forry will only get one layer of hazards up, and provided you can play cleverly around Spikes setters, you really don't have much of an issue with hazards which is why I suggest trying without rapid spin; even sticky web won't cause drastic issues, as the only one affected by it (who cares) is Cloyster himself, meaning if you want to come in and knock out any Sticky Web, you're immediately forced out anyway just because you don't want to be staying in and Smashing with a speed drop in tow - you're better off trying to Smash early, or saving him till his threats are dealt with if your opponent gets web up immediately. On top of that, sticky web is much less common than most predicted it would be.
 
Well, outclassed is the wrong word, for the Aegislash debate, since they're doing slightly different jobs even where I've suggested it, but it's more a question of you using him for something that he doesn't do as well as other Pokémon, so it's just as viable to pick something new who's niche adds more, rather than replace him with something that does the same job better when for defensive pivoting you've already got Gliscor anyway. If you want a true defensive pivot then Rotom-W is the way to go here, but you've got Gliscor who does that just as well too. Really the thing I see wrong with Aegislash is you're taking an all-attacking-move set on something that isn't designed to work without being able to support himself, but because he supports himself so well, being a set up sweeper is what he does best. Which is why I suggested some things that can simply take a chunk out of anything that switches in on them, even if they needed to switch out. Re: Hidden Ability on Salamence; it is available, via friend safari, but it's Moxie, which is kind of wasted on a Special set, and Intimidate is sometimes preferred anyway, even on the physical ones.

The significant problem with using Aegislash as a defensive pivot is that he won't force many sweepers out once they're in (and/or set up), and the ones he does force out are things like Gengar who don't mind coming out since they don't run set ups. This comes because he can only reliably set up on things that haven't already set up themselves. A bulky specs set will, however, often come in and either get a KO or force a switch, taking a large chunk out of something in the process. Assault vest is a possibility, but the point of the Goodra set (and the other two) is sheer power; you're trying to switch in and surprise people with a heavy hit, which is why I see room for a specs set.

The best way I see for keeping Aegislash as a defensive pivot is to return to the standard set running a defensive spread, lefties, with Kings' Shield - Swords Dance isn't strictly necessary, if you're not using him as a set-up sweeper.

Re: Razor Shell; Scizor was a mistype - opposing Aegislash can be included in that list, although you need to be careful around Kings Shield, and, as you picked up on and I didn't, Klefki. Regarding Ferro/Forretress, take a Life Orb over White Herb and you'll kill Ferro with one Icicle Spear after a Shell Smash; Forry will only get one layer of hazards up, and provided you can play cleverly around Spikes setters, you really don't have much of an issue with hazards which is why I suggest trying without rapid spin; even sticky web won't cause drastic issues, as the only one affected by it (who cares) is Cloyster himself, meaning if you want to come in and knock out any Sticky Web, you're immediately forced out anyway just because you don't want to be staying in and Smashing with a speed drop in tow - you're better off trying to Smash early, or saving him till his threats are dealt with if your opponent gets web up immediately. On top of that, sticky web is much less common than most predicted it would be.
Just switched Rapid Spin for Razor Shell as well as replacing Aegislash (you will be missed, my friend. May the turnstile of the Rotation Battle serve you well *salutes*) with Goodra. I picked Goodra over Salamence because Salamence's SpD is pretty bad. Both of their SpA are the same (making them serve the same role equally in that regard) and Salamence is more bulky on the Physical side than the Special side (while having the same 80 on both sides, his Intimidate effectively increases his base Def to 120) which isn't what I need. I have Gliscor for that. Not to mention once Salamence forces the switch, his effective base Def becomes an average 80 again. My issue is walling Special attacks, which Goodra does quite well with his 150 SpD as well as immediately forcing off Special attackers due to the increased popularity of Assault Vest Goodra (for good reason! that thing is a SpD monster, only taking about 30-40 something from a Dazzling Gleam from my Gengar).

Also, as I said, legitimately getting a perfect IV'd Salamence with the exact Atk stat needed to get the right Hidden Power will drive me insane... So while I'd go for it if need be, I'd like to kinda' shy away from it and avoid that if at all possible.

EDIT: Went with Sap Sipper because my team has a weakness to Grass in both Gliscor and Cloyster, and if a physical threat really does come in on me, I can just switch to Gliscor, or Blaziken if it's Ice-type. Not to mention most of the contact physical moves seen at this time that'd even trigger Gooey are pretty effectively walled by Gliscor if I'm not mistaken. Feel free to correct me on that assessment.

Also, I went with Focus Miss over Thunderbolt because since he has the bulk to stick around (unlike Gengar), I won't be OHKO'd most of the time if I throw off an attack and miss. Again, feel free to correct me if my analysis is wrong.

As for the Spe EVs, what does that deal with that a simple 4 from maxing out HP won't do? I'm still learning who has an advantage over who, so it'd be great to know who I can trump and who I come short of so I don't miss opportunities over the slower ones and make game ruining misplays against ones I think I can beat.

Finally, how's Sludge Wave as opposed to Sludge Bomb? Is the +20% Poison Rate really that much better than the +5 BP? I'm not super sure on how gamechanging the 5 damage or 20% Poison rate are.

EDIT #2: Gdi Kibblecat. It's impossible to find good art of it looking badass without it looking dumb and not like a Goodra at all. I'm missing Aegislash and his fear inspiring doom glare already. XD

EDIT #3: Switched Goodra from Focus Miss to Thunderbolt, since I've yet to use it once and I've had numerous times where I was like "God damn it, would be nice to have Thunderbolt right about now". Also changed Goodra from Sap Sipper to Gooey since he resists Grass anyway and Grass-types are predominantly Special Attackers so I can sponge them up no worries.
 
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So I tried this team out and won 5-6 games. The one I lost a talonflame sweeped my whole team...any ideas for this team to counter that?
 
So I tried this team out and won 5-6 games. The one I lost a talonflame sweeped my whole team...any ideas for this team to counter that?

Sub/Protect Gliscor should be able to handle Talonflame pretty easily. Cloyster should be able to drop him with Rock Blast, too.
 
Well I mean he like brave bird/acrobatics me so right when I switch in Im pretty much dead
You'll need to leave something as death fodder and not shell smash if you use Cloyster. If you switch a poke into a brave bird you'll definitely get KO'd by the second one. Spamming protect and sub with gliscor should have him die from recoil damage and I think an Acrobatics can't break a sub in one shot, if it can you'll have to get a toxic in somewhere.
 
Yeah. If I get Cloyster in safe, Talonflame will immediately switch out or die. As for Gliscor, I can safe switch in at full health and Toxic whore it to an early grave. I will agree that Talonflame is a monster and hurts a lot, but it's not unbeatable. Sure, no one's a hard counter, and I'd like to see if I can work in one if he goes OU (as I'm expecting), but for now I can survive.
 
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