Noivern; the new addition to my VoltTurn team

*Bolded items are the revisions after feedback*

VoltTurn

I would like to think I created this idea from scratch first, but sadly someone beat me to it a long time ago when I had no interest in competitive play. My favorite play style is null in void due to the nerf on Sandstream. Therefore I am going to use my new team full time. I had good success in the live games I have played thus far…when I assumed that my opponents used Smogon sets… The idea is to attack as much as I can and then keep the pressure going by using U-Turn or Volt Switch when I have to. With the correct prediction aided by Team Preview I should be able to continue rolling through my opponents. My current thread is to discuss the changes associated with the transition to X and Y. I am dropping my Magnezone for Noivern because his speed was so pitiful that despite hitting like a truck he would seldom hit anything.

NOTE!!!!! This is for a team to be used on my 3DS and not an emulator so make sure your recommendations are actually worth the effort that is expended in breeding and training.

Infernape with Blaze and Fire Gem

Naïve 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpA

Close Combat

U-Turn

Stealth Rock

Overheat


Infernape will generally serve as my team lead since it has Stealth Rock, but I have chosen not to use a Focus Sash because he will probably switch out if he cannot lay down Stealth Rock on the first turn. While Fake Out would be an absolute boon to Infernape for a VoltTurn team, I recognize the moves I have selected will benefit me in the longer term. I say this because Infernape isn’t great at taking hits so I won’t be switching him in as often as some of the other members. Since all of the EV’s are invested into Attack I am using a Fire Gem to boost Overheat to semi-nuclear power. Stealth Rock and U-Turn are straight utility with Close Combat and Overheat for vicious STAB attacks.


Forretress with Sturdy and Assault Vest

Sassy 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD

Gyro Ball

Explosion

Rapid Support

Volt Turn


This guy is all utility, all the time. Rapid spin is the name of the game for this guy because of all the switching I will be doing, but with this set up I have had remarkable success with defeating the Lati-twins and even Rayquaza a few times. Volt Turn is there to provide a slow switch and allow Forretress to sponge an attack so the switch in avoids the damage. I have chosen the Assault vest and Explosion because in my experience I never really got the opportunity to use Spikes and the whole team gains some additional bulk for switching in and out. Gyro Ball is for a solid STAB attack that has worked well in taking down Gengar expecting a Rapid Spin as well as the move-locked Dragons.


Rotom-W with Levitate and Leftovers

Calm 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD


Volt Turn

Hydro Pump

Pain Split

Will-O-Wisp


This is part one of my defensive core and he appears to be the Number 1 or Number 2 most used Pokémon because he is just that valuable. I chose to go bulky because I have some heavy hitters already and I needed more defensive types. Generally I choose WoW or Pain Split on the switch and then he gets out of there with Volt Switch because a ground type is not coming in due to the fear being hit with Hydro Pump. That move will used later on the match because Rotom-W is more than likely to survive longer than anyone else. The EV’s and nature were to maximize both defensive spectrums.


Scizor with Technician and Scizorite

Adamant 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe


Bullet Punch

U-Turn

Superpower

Quick Attack


Scizor has been a beast in the meta-game since Platinum I think. Bullet Punch and U-Turn are the staples of the set and U-Turn will be the primary move period unless a Bullet Punch is necessary for a revenge kill. Superpower is there for coverage against Heatran and Ferrothorn and whatever else is necessary in the new Generation. The final move slot is a toss-up for me because I would rather knock out Volcarona with a boosted Quick Attack or spam a STAB U-Turn so the “counter” has to switch after the switch if you catch my drift. Common sense dictates that Scizorite be the requisite item since it is better than Choice Band for a VoltTurn team and I lack another Mega Evolution so I don’t run the risk of not being to Mega Evolve when necessary. I have come to believe that this guy will work wonders as a lead to Mega Evolve from the start while using U-Turn at the same time. This way Scizor is more bulky overall for the rest of the match.


Hydreigon with Levitate and Expert Belt

Timid 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 Atk


Draco Meteor

Dark Pulse

Flash Cannon/Fire Blast

U-Turn


While many folks were not as big a fan of Hydreigon in Gen V, this guy is all about cold blooded murder from the Special side of life. Dark Pulse received a huge buff in that Steel types no longer resist it (making Fire Blast redundant) and Draco Meteor just smashes stuff repeatedly. At least stuff that isn’t Fairy and that is where Flash Cannon comes in. While Steel does not have great coverage it is the one move that Hydreigon gets to help defend against a type that will wall it senselessly. As mentioned, Fire Blast isn’t as necessary now that Dark hits steel types neutrally. U-Turn is there for getting out while the getting is good and Expert Belt is there to allow switching moves while getting a boost or bluffing a Choice Item.


And now for the newest member of the team. A new Pokémon that is under constant discussion right now because of his typing, looks, stats, and abilities; Noivern!


Noivern with Frisk and Choice Specs

Modest 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP


Boomburst

Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse

Switcheroo

U-Turn


Originally this guy was going to be an Annoyer to support my team, but I have found that my original beliefs were incorrect. With the Choice Specs, Boomburst and Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse will sting considerably, but it is Switcheroo that makes the set overall. Working with Frisk, I can determine if attacking or switching items is the best course of action and go from there. Either way, Noivern is sure to leave a mark before it switches out. Scouting outright with U-Turn keeps him in line with the overall theme of this team and it takes advantage of his blistering speed. I know that Landorus-T makes for a greater defensive pivot, but I don’t have access to it yet and I love the design of Noivern so much more. The argument of Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse is one that I have not yet determined the answer for internally. I think Dragon Pulse would better fit this guy since he will primarily be Choice locked.


I have seriously considered dropping Infernape for one of the two following Pokemon, but since I don’t know how much things have changed yet for the Metagame, I am not for certain how effective they would be in the longer term.


Conkeldurr with Assault Vest

Adamant 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def


Drain Punch

Ice Punch

Thunderpunch

Mach Punch


While this guy lacks the move U-Turn or Volt Switch, giving him an Assault Vest makes for a serious defensive pivot that can heal itself without being restricted by the vest. With the proper prediction, even Intimidate users will not appreciate the appropriate punch to the face making for a serious pain in the tail. Since Steel retains the resistance to Psychic I can always switch out to either of my bugs or Hydreigon if I fear for Conkeldurr’s safety. Drain Punch and Mach Punch will be used accordingly to either heal or take down a weakened foe. I also feel this guy helps with my ghost and Rotom-Form weakness because Conkeldurr would love the free boost from Will-O-Wisp or Toxic. If Conkeldurr was to be used with the Assault Vest, Forretress would use Leftovers instead.


The other Pokemon Infernape might be fired for is an all-out mixed attacker Greninja with Protean, but outside of U-Turn and Water Shuriken I don’t know where to begin. I have a Froakie that was a gift to me that has near perfect IV’s and Protean but I want to know how to maximize his potential before I begin his training.

Greninja with Protean and Life Orb

Naughty 100 Atk/156 SpA/252 Spe


U-Turn

Water Shuriken

Dark Pulse/Sludge Bomb

Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/Grass Knot


Wow! This Pokemon is not only awesome, but a royal pain in the tail to determine a moveset for. I am shooting for a mixed attacking set because each of the moves are amazing for different purposes. If you have been under a rock lately, Protean changes Greninja’s type to a the full type of whatever attack he uses, before he uses it! This way everything has STAB! As you can tell I love U-Turn so that is going to be a standard for Greninja. Water Shuriken is a move that has many people frustrated. It is a multi-hit (2-5 hits) priority move that is perfect for shutting down Substitute Pokemon such as Gengar and Volcarona! Outside of that though I wonder about its overall utility. Dark Pulse is a great way to remove the faster ghosts and psychics but Sludge Bomb hits Fairy (and Grass I guess) for super effective damage. Hydro Pump is the strongest viable special move available, but is redundant with Water Shuriken. Ice Beam is always fun when it is STAB plus the frog is faster than all of the Dragons bar Noivern. Grass Knot is useful for giving Greninja the resistances to Ground and Grass, but it also hits Mega Gyarados pretty hard. There are some other options such as Shadow Sneak or Extrasensory, but there would need to a severe problem in your team when it comes to handling them so Greninja fixes the hole. Spikes and Toxic Spikes are cool and all, but Defog is going to be more prevalent with Sticky Web so I believe that either Spike move will be a wasted slot.


So that is my team! I love the idea of always keeping my opponent guessing as I continue to switch out on each of my “counters”. Let me know what you think but remember that this is not for an emulator team, but an honest to goodness team for battling with friends locally so make honest recommendations that are worth the extra effort.
 
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If this is on the 3DS, how exactly are you getting an Infernape?

Where did you find a Fire Gem?

Why doesn't Fortress have Leftovers or Red Card? Why is he running Macho Brace/Iron ball when he is already slow?
 
This is for whenever I can transfer my old team into the new game. I don't know how or when that will happen. As for the Fire Gem, I had seen on Bulbapedia that the gems were available in different regions so I would find it there when I had the chance.

On to Forretress. I had never messed with Red Card myself, but Volt Switch does the same thing. I do like the idea of of the forced switch after sponging the hit though. I chose Macho Brace to maximize the damage potential and because Smogon rules ban using Leftovers more than once. Rotom-W needs those more than Forretress I think. Besides Red Card or Leftovers, do you have a better idea because I would love to hear it. ;-)
 
This is for whenever I can transfer my old team into the new game. I don't know how or when that will happen. As for the Fire Gem, I had seen on Bulbapedia that the gems were available in different regions so I would find it there when I had the chance.

On to Forretress. I had never messed with Red Card myself, but Volt Switch does the same thing. I do like the idea of of the forced switch after sponging the hit though. I chose Macho Brace to maximize the damage potential and because Smogon rules ban using Leftovers more than once. Rotom-W needs those more than Forretress I think. Besides Red Card or Leftovers, do you have a better idea because I would love to hear it. ;-)
Smogon doesn't have Item Clause enable ... You can use two Leftovers. Nintendo's VGC rules have Item Clause
 
I added the Leftovers to Forretress. I would like to know if I would benefit from having a Trick or Switcheroo user on my team through Rotom-W or Noivern and Choice Specs. Does anyone have any thoughts on that?
 
Looks like a prototypical all-out VoltTurn team. Unfortunately, it also retains a lot of the same weaknesses.

The first: You have 2 Pokemon with 4x weakness to Fire. Considering Fire is one of the most common coverage types in OU, it will come from all sorts of angles. This problem is compounded by the fact that Scizor and Forretress aren't fast enough to VoltTurn out of trouble. You're forced to play extremely cautiously to play around it or get mauled by HPFire and Fire Punch. Mess up and you either lose your best Physical Sweeper or your Spinner.

Second: Besides Rotom-W, your pivoting potential is extremely weak. VoltTurn benefits greatly from dealing damage with an offensive Pokemon then letting your defensive Pokemon take the hit. Unfortunately, this team doesn't really have the bulk to take repeated hits.

Some other pointers about the team:
- King's Rock doesn't stack with Air Slash. It's a wasted item slot unless you really want the 10% flinch for Boomburst.
- Take Fake Out on Infernape, it's probably the single best move on a VoltTurn team. You get a free hit in whenever you switch in and adds a lot of free damage to a team reliant on free damage.
- On Scizor, Expert Belt gets absolutely outclassed by the Megastone. Although you can make an argument for Choice Band, I don't think it's great on a team focused around VoltTurn. It reduces the value of Bullet Punch since you can't afford to waste turns. Since there's no other Mega on the team, I'd recommend Mega Scizor.
- Life Orb on SpA Hydreigon seems iffy. 10% is a huge price to pay for Turning out.
- You have no Ice coverage and no Phazing or reliable way to deal with boosts (Toxic, Perish, etc).
- No easy way to deal with opposing SpD Rotom-W.

Some of your EV spreads are a bit whacky:
- Infernape's EV spread will make him auto-lose to other Terrakion/Keldeo/Infernape. It seems tailored to beat base 100 Spe+ but you lose a lot of your safe U-Turn potential by giving up so much Spe.
- Noivern's Spe needs a total rework. Modest 252 SpA/100 Spe/156 HP won't get you far. Dragons show up less frequently but that setup loses to any Spe+ dragons. I'm not sure Roost and investing into HP is worth it on such a frail Pokemon.

Some alterante VoltTurn Pokemon to consider:
- Greninja with Insect Plate and Protean
- Landorus-T with Assault Vest and Intimidate
- Mew with Volt Switch and Defog
 
Wow. Thank you for the info.

I see your point about having two Pokemon 4x weak to fire, but I have 4 resisting it even if only three are sturdy. Shouldn't that count for something? I see the same for Ice attacks so I am not for certain how I am missing checks. Please fill me in.

Defensive pivoting it obviously a key portion of VoltTurn so I recognize I need it. It sounds like Infernape is going to get the boot for something else. I like the idea of Mew and Landorus-T quite a bit actually. They are both rather bulky but isn't Mew Uber? I have a specially bred Froakie ready to be trained once I am aware of the best way to use its Naughty nature, but I think the flaming monkey does most of the same as the ninja frog. How does Protean work again? And how would I fit Greninja on this team?

I hear you about King's Rock and Scizornite which honestly should have been a no-brainer.

Would replacing WoW with Toxic on Rotom-W help with my boosters and defensive types? I was using WoW to increase my teams defensive potential while harming my opponent.

On Infernape, your arguement for Fake Out is so strong I might just do it, but I found my old notes on the one I made and he actually has a spread of 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpA to go with his nature. Is there any way to get Fake Out on him without breeding a new one?

I have been thinking about Hydreigon all day and I think an Expert Belt would better serve my needs because I can bluff a Choice Specs and I don't lose anymore HP than necessary.

I was looking at Noivern as a better Crobat and Crobat seemed to be a good defensive Pokemon with the same defensive stats. Although Noivern is still in the analysis stage, how would you fit him into this team?

While I understand that Fake Out is awesome for this, I think the Landorus-T is going to replace Infernape but I haven't decided yet.
 
Protean changes you to the type of the attack you use right before you use it, giving greninja STAB on everything. Greninja hits incredibly hard with special attacks backed by stab. It also gets spikes, u-turn, water shiruken(priority multi-hit water type move) and other support moves.
 
Being weak to weak to Fire is a bit different than say being weak to Electric. You usually know who has access to Electric moves and can predict/react. However, Fire-type moves often come in the form of off-type coverage (HP Fire and Fire Fang) so they come out of nowhere/everywhere. While some Pokemon like Skarmory can occasionally deal with problems like those, being 4x weak is a totally different story. Having 2 separate 4x weak Pokemon on a single team calls for either punishment on prediction (Heatran) or switching the team up.

Protean gives Greninja access to STAB U-Turn. Combined with solid base Atk and his blazing Spe, he is IMO the best dedicated U-Turner to come out of XY. Mew is awesome because he actually does something unlike Forretress who often just Spins then dies. Landorus-T is amazing not only due to his natural bulk and solid Atk but also Intimidate. Turning in Intimidate multiple times throughout a match cripples many teams. Finally, Mew is actually UU.

Afaik, before BW King's Rock used to stack with flinch moves. Easy mistake to make if you've been around for a while.

Burn is an awesome ability that stops a lot of physical sweepers in their tracks. It is awesome to have if you can fit it into your team. Toxic has more offensive potential but is also way more accessible. I'd keep Will-o-Wisp on Rotom for now.

I'm the wrong person to ask breeding questions. If you can't be bothered to breed another Infernape, Mienshao might actually be a better candidate for a dedicated Fake Out Turner. Higher Atk, similar Spe, more relevant ability in Regenerator. If you can bring Fire coverage elsewhere (Hydreigon) then Life Orb Mienshao definitely deserves a look.

I'm not too familiar with Noivern but he's worth exploring if only because of Boomburst and his speed. On the other hand, Crobat has access to Defog and frees up the Spinner slot. If you do end up going Land-T, I'd suggest dropping Noivern though. They'll both be 4x weak to Ice, another common coverage type.
 
I made some changes to better compensate for the unknowns in the upcoming metagame. I am fairly certain that Infernape is going away.
 
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