Basically this, besides, it leaves a Physical Attacker prone to switch out after it is attacked anyways thanks to Gooey! pokelover32, have you even tested Goodra?
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Pokémon Goodra [REVAMP]
- Thread starter TaBuu
- Start date
- Status
Basically this, besides, it leaves a Physical Attacker prone to switch out after it is attacked anyways thanks to Gooey! pokelover32, have you even tested Goodra?
I've been having some Stall Team success with an Assault Vest Goodra.
252 HP/252 DEF/4 SpD
- Dragon Tail
- Counter
- Dragon Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
Goodra doesn't need much help to tank Special Attacks with his Base SpD and a vest, so I focused on his Def. You can't just switch into strong Physical attacks at will, but you don't have to flee from them either, and can score some nice surprise KOs with Counter. Dragon Tail to shuffle and rack up hazard damage. I'm not really sure about the other moves - they kind of feel like filler? I pray for Giga Drain and Drain Punch to return as tutors in Pokemon Z. Which leads me to the main issue: Recovery and Status. I personally have been supporting him with Wish Blissey and Wish/Heal Bell Vaporeon.
Any thoughts on what I should be doing with his attack moveslots? I'm also using Skarmory, Trevenant and Mega Blastoise. Any more advised teammates?
252 HP/252 DEF/4 SpD
- Dragon Tail
- Counter
- Dragon Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
Goodra doesn't need much help to tank Special Attacks with his Base SpD and a vest, so I focused on his Def. You can't just switch into strong Physical attacks at will, but you don't have to flee from them either, and can score some nice surprise KOs with Counter. Dragon Tail to shuffle and rack up hazard damage. I'm not really sure about the other moves - they kind of feel like filler? I pray for Giga Drain and Drain Punch to return as tutors in Pokemon Z. Which leads me to the main issue: Recovery and Status. I personally have been supporting him with Wish Blissey and Wish/Heal Bell Vaporeon.
Any thoughts on what I should be doing with his attack moveslots? I'm also using Skarmory, Trevenant and Mega Blastoise. Any more advised teammates?
I'm sorry, maybe I'm a bit new and don't understand everything that's being discussed fully, but I can't make heads or tails of the current discussion. What is a typical EV investment right now for Gooey Goodra @ Assault Vest? The Modest set that Cshadow posted seems really solid but I don't feel like it's what I'm facing frequently on Showdown.
Well, Modest or Quiet seem to be the best natures for the Assault Vest set, since they give Goodra the ability to hit hard with its attacks while still being incredibly bulky on the special spectrum. Quiet in particular lets Goodra use Dragon Tail for decent damage against things it can't threaten otherwise. EV spreads are usually max HP and Sp.Atk to give Goodra good bulk and power.
However, there are a lot of people who prefer using Assault Vest Goodra for more defensive rather than tanky offensive purposes, which is why you'll often see Sassy Assault Vest Goodra with defensive EV investment. I personally prefer Assault Vest Goodra being used more offensively, since Assault Vest lets it take an incredibly amount of special attacks while still hitting hard, but that's just me.
I've played around a bit with this set, and it seems OK, but it gets destroyed by toxic and burn with a stall set. A cleric of course deals with this, as does any stall breaker. But it might just be me, as I've seen alot of stall sets around lately.
Remind me again why in the world you'd use special bulk or attack? Sure, some people use special SE moves, but that's rare. Most people go straight for physical attacks, gooey or not. Gooey never stopped one person from going for the kill. Really, you must invest in defense. It's saved me multiple times
You're far too focused on making Goodra able to stand up to attacks of all kinds, and I don't think that's the best idea. You keep mentioning "why would you attack Goodra on the special side?" Well, you usually don't willingly attack it on the special side. Just like how you don't want to attack Skarmory on the physical side. But it makes a great switch-in to special attackers of all kinds due to insane amount of special bulk it has with Assault Vest. That's kind of how walls or pokemon with good defenses work in general. They switch in on something they can wall, do what they can while on the field, and retreat when something comes in that can threaten it, usually in their weak spot. Assault Vest Goodra works much the same way, in that it can easily switch in on a ton of special attackers and, if you've invested in its offenses, retaliate with powerful attacks of its own. Investing in its lower defense for Assault Vest sets is not the best idea because you lose a lot of firepower, and without any support moves to use, you're left with an only decent attacker/mixed wall.
Well it works. It can wall a broader range of pokemon and destroy most of them. Not the best at sweeping, but that isn't his role. He's just there to beat any pokemon of choice and put a dent in the next. Your set seems a bit more situational and requires you to take some damage on switch in. I don't switch much, it's better if my pokemon dies of uselessness than the better one sacrifice itself.
I'm not exactly sure how the set with offensive investment is situational. Mind you, it's not my set. That's the primary set from the Goodra analysis. Anyway, I don't think that the ability to switch in on almost any special attack and fire off powerful attacks of its own (or use phazing to rack up damage) is "situational." That's kind of what tanks do, and Goodra does a great job of that.
Also, how does your set not take damage on the switch while the offensive Assault Vest does? I'm not quite sure if I understand how that works.
Excuse me? You just... Leave them there? No wonder you have issues with physical attackers attacking Goodra, you should be switching into something that can deal with it, not just leave it in to die.
Obvious trolls are obvious, just let them learn the hard way. :P
In the Gengarite discussion thread, people brought up using AV Goodra as your Mega Gengar counter. While my entire opinion of Goodra is skewed by the fact that my Floette manhandled Diantha in my playthrough in-game, how well does it counter MegaGar? Would it be viable to run EQ just for that purpose?
Also I wonder if any physical sets might be the slightest bit viable.
I don't see the point of a respectable Gengar user to keep him in on Goodra when there are plenty of other specially frail pokemon on your team he can easily trap and maim. Mega Gengar has the luxury to choose his fights, so why would he stick around for Goodra? A better counter is a surprise that Mega Gengar thinks it can beat. Plenty of scarfed pokemon with Earthquake, or any numerous amount of strong physical attacks can do that. Talonflame, Azumarill and Scizor and numerous things with Sucker Punch all have a leg up.
Simply put, you're just bad at battling then (or troll?). Not sure if its worth continuing a discussion here.
I think they were trying to suggest that Goodra walls offensive Mega Gengar; which the AV sets do to a good extent. The argument is that Mega Gengar's PerishTrapping set (which is currently non-existent until PokeBank is released) is able to come in and take out any defensive wall without being able to do much. If Mega Gengar is able to come in safely on Goodra, it can set up a sub, use Perish Song, and then continue to burn turns until Goodra is dead. Goodra however would be much harder for Gengar to set up on since it has both the offensive and tanking capability to threaten Gengar when it tries to sub up or use PS.
A bit confused looking around at the myriad of sets people have posted here, but I have come to the conclusion that my team, which is laughably grass-weak (Damn you MVenusaur!) would do well with the addition of a Sap-Sipper Goodra. However, I am a bit unsure on a set.
I'm thinking of running this set:
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Impish Nature
Sap Sipper
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
-Outrage
-Aqua Tail
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide/Power Whip
However, I am only doing a physical set because of Sap Sipper. Do people think that this set would be ok, or that it'd be better to still go full Special?
I'm thinking of running this set:
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Impish Nature
Sap Sipper
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
-Outrage
-Aqua Tail
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide/Power Whip
However, I am only doing a physical set because of Sap Sipper. Do people think that this set would be ok, or that it'd be better to still go full Special?
Personally, my Sap Sipper set is:
Goodra (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
Calm Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Tail
- Thunderbolt
I haven't tried much physical emphasis beyond Dragon Tail, but I wouldn't recommend it; getting a Sap Sipper boost isn't all that easy, while Goodra's physical moves are generally weaker and susceptible to losing damage from burns. How much that matters really depends on how much else you have that can absorb burns and fight back against Rotom-W, though. Dragon Tail lets it shuffle; I'd recommend it on any set, especially a physical one. Draco Meteor is nice for crushing things with full power without having to lock yourself into Outrage. Fire Blast gets some nice coverage, hitting annoying Steels as well as Ice-type Greninja. Its Ice Beam is one of the biggest reasons to run an Assault Vest and it's still not much of a reason; I've found myself much preferring Leftovers. And of course Thunderbolt hits Azumarill; whether you go with it or Power Whip, it's really useful to have some countermeasure to it and its Play Rough.
This is a little off topic, but I FINALLY found someone on reddit who can hatch my FLAWLESS shiny goomy! Just felt like sharing my happiness with you all.
An interesting set, to be sure, but I'm a bit unsure about it for me. I want to run a more defensive set. However, how well does your set deal with Special attacks? And I originally considered a Def investment with Assault vest because I wanted it to be able to take hits from both ends of the spectrum, and I reasoned that its SpA/Attack with Sap Sipper boost was good enough for its attacks. Again, I'm not sure.
Special attacks are nothing to it unless they're both STAB and super effective; neutral hits bounce right off. If you're unsure, just try non-AV Goodra and make a note of any special attacks you wish it could take better; I didn't find that there were many, but it was a difference I only noticed after deciding to try not bothering with AV.
Def investment is certainly an option; that set certainly doesn't like taking physical attacks. You could probably just take all the SpA EVs and dump them into Def if you want, but be ready for a pretty sharp drop in power.
Hahaha, you underestimate me. No, I do not mean to troll, I'm serious. Furthermore I win almost all my battles in any battle type because I quickly adapt to them all. I'm going to enter VGC just because I have quite a chance. Just to show you, my friend lost 3 out of 3 battles against my other friend and so I took my losing friends team and swept the winning one. Believe me or not, I know how to use this pokemon pretty well, and even though you're way isn't wrong or bad I'm saying it might be better
I'm running a physical set myself, just not with Sap sipper, I was going to use sap sipper, but got a near Perfect Gooey, and took that one. Because Gooey is just as awesome.
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Adamant Nature
Gooey
252 HP/252 Attack/ 6 SpD
-Outrage
-Iron Tail
-Earthquake
-Power Whip
You get Iron tail via chain breeding. it really helps against those fairies, even with the low accuracy. I have Burn support from Gourgeist, so I feel I don't need to invest in Defense, and go all out attack. An Adamant Goodra with full Attack IV's and HV's still hits pretty damn hard.
That's not the point-- the point is that it's a waste to invest even further in Special Defense.
Doing so might make sense in an environment like Ubers, where behemoths like Kyogre or Palkia roam, but not really in OU. After combining Goodra's bulk with Assault Vest, special attacks of all sorts are pretty much laughable. Even Specs Latios (who you really shouldn't be used to check) can't OHKO Assault Vest Goodra with 252 HP (not Sassy, no SpD). After you reach a certain threshold of bulk, it doesn't make sense to invest more in it when you can gain a lot more by investing elsewhere.
Besides, Assault Vest makes most sense on an offensive set, or an mixed tanking set with physical and special bulk. If I wanted a devoted Special tank, it would be WAY more efficient to just use Leftovers. Besides allowing for the use of moves like Toxic, RestTalk (way better this gen), and Protect, Leftovers just makes more sense for a Pokemon whose role is switching in and forcing stuff out (you know, like all dedicated walls, which you're arguing Goodra should be)-- especially when it lacks reliable recovery (this is no Softboiled Chansey), and already has the bulk to tank special hits well even without Vest. EVEN arguing for Goodra in the context of a dedicated special wall with Leftovers, Sassy, and SpD investment though, I'd still rather go with Latias. Latias' better Speed and access to support moves like ROOST, WISH, Defog, Roar, Refresh, Screens just makes it far superior in this role. Goodra's main niche as a defensive Pokemon over Latias lies ONLY in the fact that it isn't weak to Pursuit, and can be EV'd to not be instantly destroyed by Tyranitar and Scizor.
That said, if you actually did use a Sassy, AV Goodra with no DEF EVs, Tyranitar/Scizor WOULD destroy you, even without being weak to Pursuit.
252+ Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 196-232 (51.04 - 60.41%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
^That's not using an item like Choice Band, and the same damage you'd take switching out of Pursuit. Keep in mind that you're looking at a 9HKO v. TTar with no SpA and no way of recovering your health.
Bottom line: Unless you are a set that isn't trashed by Pursuit users, there's no point in using Goodra over Latias. If you aren't investing in SpA or DEF, you are trashed by Pursuit users.
At the same time, Goodra isn't Tyranitar. Tyranitar might want to go Careful + Assault Vest + Sand for the most obscene Special Bulk in OU, but there's METHOD behind that madness. Tyranitar has Pursuit to checkmate and destroy its targets, guaranteeing that its Special Bulk will go to use. Rather, it's Special Bulk helps to guarantee it can execute a specific job-- a job it might need the special bulk for when its enemies have massive SpA and are using 4x super effective Focus Blasts.
Goodra on the other hand, CAN'T trap the targets it checks-- it can only force them out. If it invests in Special bulk to check special threats, it's not looking at a 1-shot battle like TTar, but a prolonged one paved by switching. In order to succeed, it can't just focus on Special bulk. It needs the overall bulk or survivability of leftovers to keep going in that prolonged battle; or it needs the offensive power of Modest + SpA in order to hammer the enemies that will switch in as Special attackers switch out. Without physical bulk or offensive power, (and even lacking anything but attacking moves to boot!) all you have is a worthless meat sack not good for anything.
Anyone know how good a Goodra Qwilfish duo would work? I was thinking somehing along the lines of this for Goodra:
Goodra @Leftorvers
Bold / Calm nature
Gooey
124 HP/128 Def/4 SpA/252 SpD
-Rain Dance
-Fire Blast
-Infestation
-Protect
Haven't tried this out myself but I was thinking of using Goodra as an anti-wall while whittling away his opponent while being able to protect himself from strong coverage moves. I was thinking that if Goodra can force a switch or even kill something to force out the opponents physical sweeper it'd probably end up like this; Goodra gets hit by priority move but gets up rain dance. Next turn opponent will be slow and if slow enough Goodra can dent them or switch out or maybe just sacrifice itself. This will allow Qwilfish to outspeed and revenge kill the physical sweeper and possibly sweep. Though this is just me theorizing and I have no idea how it'll actually turn out.
Goodra @Leftorvers
Bold / Calm nature
Gooey
124 HP/128 Def/4 SpA/252 SpD
-Rain Dance
-Fire Blast
-Infestation
-Protect
Haven't tried this out myself but I was thinking of using Goodra as an anti-wall while whittling away his opponent while being able to protect himself from strong coverage moves. I was thinking that if Goodra can force a switch or even kill something to force out the opponents physical sweeper it'd probably end up like this; Goodra gets hit by priority move but gets up rain dance. Next turn opponent will be slow and if slow enough Goodra can dent them or switch out or maybe just sacrifice itself. This will allow Qwilfish to outspeed and revenge kill the physical sweeper and possibly sweep. Though this is just me theorizing and I have no idea how it'll actually turn out.
My apologies, I suppose I didn't word that correctly. I honestly didn't mean to suggest that Assault Vest Goodra should be used as a dedicated wall; on the contrary, I believe it should be used as an offensive tank that can hit hard while still being able to take hits. Naturally, without the benefit of support moves or even basic Leftovers recovery, AV Goodra is bound to be worn down over time and can't harm opponents via moves like Toxic. That's why I believe it's best to invest in its offensive power to deal as much damage as possible. Investing in Special Defense is, in my opinion, kind of redundant with Assault Vest as you take away from Goodra's offensive capabilities, which is its only thing it can do due to Assault Vest's downside. I suppose my comparison to Skarmory must have been rather misleading... I meant to show comparison between two pokemon with high defensive stats that granted them switch in opportunities. The difference is that one is a dedicated wall meant to set up hazards and phaze, while the other is much more suited to opening holes in teams with high-powered moves while having the benefit of being very bulky on one side of the spectrum. I apologize if I caused confusion...
So I'm new to the competitive scene. I want to use Goodra. I don't expect to be fighting ubers so I'm thinking about running this. Am I totally silly or is this a good idea? I was thinking about putting 252 in SpA, but I like the idea that people will see goodra and waste 3 turns testing out spd, then switching and she then still survives a physical move (if I don't predict the switch with dragon tail).
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Bold Nature
Gooey
252 HP/252 Def/ 4 Speed
Moveset:
- Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Dragon Tail
- Thunderbolt / Sludge Wave
Maybe Earthquake instead of one of these moves?
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Bold Nature
Gooey
252 HP/252 Def/ 4 Speed
Moveset:
- Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Dragon Tail
- Thunderbolt / Sludge Wave
Maybe Earthquake instead of one of these moves?
Last edited:
- Status