Xerneas (WIP)

[Theorymon]

bear with me here, google docs is being really screwy for me atm, so I'm pasting what I have. Will get this done soonish!

[Pros]

<ul>
<li>Xerneas's Fairy STAB and Fairy Aura allow it to be deceptively powerful.</li>
<li>Xerneas learns Geomancy, a charge up move that doubles Special Attack, Special Defense, and Speed. Combine this with Power Herb, and Xerneas is an extremely dangerous sweeper, who can force switches even when not using the Geomancy set!</li>
<li>126 base HP and a Dragon immunity gives Xerneas several switch-in and set up opportunities.</li>
<li>99 base Speed allows Xerneas to outspeed a lot of prominent Ubers.</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>For all that great bulk, Xerneas doesn't have a reliable recovery move, limiting it to offensive sets.</li>
<li>If you attempt a sweep with Geomancy, you will only have one chance. If you screw up, Xerneas will no longer be able to sweep.</li>
<li>Although base 99 Speed outspeeds a lot of Ubers, it sadly misses out on base 100s, which are common.</li>
<li>Xerneas's special movepool is surprisingly limited.</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]


<p>Xerneas @ Power Herb<br />
Ability: Fairy Aura<br />
EVs: 192 HP / 252 SpA / 64 Spe <br />
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)<br />
- Geomancy<br />
- Moonblast<br />
- Substitute<br />
- Hidden Power Fire / Focus Blast </p>

-Power Herb + Geomancy gives you +2 SpA, SpD, and Spe in one turn, turning Xerneas into a potent sweeper.
-Moon Blast is your STAB of choice, boosted by Fairy Aura.
-Substitute allows you to defeat Ageislash and Blissey.
-Hidden Power Fire hits Steels the hardest, Focus Blast hits them regardless of the weather, and is good if you can't get the Hidden Power.

-EVs are for outspeeding Scarf Garchomp, the current fastest Scarfer.
-If you want, you can max out speed with Modest or Timid if you prefer to set up against faster stuff.
-While it can set up on its own, Wobbuffet can be a pretty handy teammate.
-Make sure you get rid of Steel priority Pokemon like Sczior and Mega Lucario before you attempt sweeping. Also, watch out for phazers. Fire-types can be handy switch-ins to these.
-You only have one shot at sweeping, make sure you don't recklessly use Geomancy!

<p>Xerneas @ Life Orb<br />
Ability: Fairy Aura<br />
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe <br />
Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)<br />
- Moonblast<br />
- Close Combat<br />
- Hidden Power Fire<br />
- Thunderbolt / Calm Mind</p>

-This set does away with setting up, and uses Xerneas's powerful, Life Orb boosted Moonblast instead.
-Close Combat 2HKOs Blissey.
-Hidden Power Fire hits Scizor and Ferrothorn hard, and can 2HKO Ageislash
-Thunderbolt is sorta filler, hits stuff like Charizard.
-Calm Mind can be used if there's a situation where a boost will break through a weakened check. Don't expect to sweep with it though!
-Naive nature is used because of Mega Lucario and Scizor, who use Bullet Punch to hit Xerneas hard.
-This doesn't need as much support as Geomancy, but Thunder Wave support is nice vs faster mons.

<p>Xerneas @ Choice Scarf<br />
Ability: Fairy Aura<br />
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe <br />
Naive Nature (+SpA, -Atk)<br />
- Moonblast<br />
- Megahorn<br />
- Close Combat<br />
- Thunderbolt</p>

-Uses Choice Scarf to revenge kill important Pokémon.
-Moonblast destroys Mega Mewtwo X, and is a good STAB move to use in general.
-Megahorn smashes Mewtwo and Mega Mewtwo Y.

 

[superstar]

Is the Power Herb set you listed the most optimal? I prefer Moon Blast/Focus Blast/Psyshock or Thunderbolt, especially with the Hidden Power nerf. Thoughts?

 

[Bryce]

Moonblast/Focus Blast/Psyshock are definitely the better options in the main metagame.But those moves are mainly for Ho-Oh and Arceus-Poison and they are available only through pokebank. I think that's why he mentioned Substitute and the Hidden Powers instead which nail it's current checks.Focus Blast hits Ferrothorn,Hidden Power Ground hits Aegislash and Hidden Power Fire hits Scizor as well as Ferrothorn. There's no need for Psyshock/Thunderbolt at the moment.

 

[Theorymon]

Moonblast/Focus Blast/Psyshock are definitely the better options in the main metagame.But those moves are mainly for Ho-Oh and Arceus-Poison and they are available only through pokebank. I think that's why he mentioned Substitute and the Hidden Powers instead which nail it's current checks.Focus Blast hits Ferrothorn,Hidden Power Ground hits Aegislash and Hidden Power Fire hits Scizor as well as Ferrothorn. There's no need for Psyshock/Thunderbolt at the moment.

That is correct. In the Pokebank section of the set, those two moves will be reccomended. I may still mention the Hidden Powers and Sub though, in addition to In Grain. But yeah, without Ho-Oh and Kyogre, Psyshock and Thunderbolt just aren't as good as they normally would be.

Anyways, currently, the Xerneas EV spread is max Speed. that's because me and Jibaku are... unsure of what the Speed should be. Also, a Scarf set is going to be added, for checking Mewtwo and a few other mons.

 

[alexwolf]

What is the use of Hidden Power Ground on the first set?

 

[superstar]

What is the use of Hidden Power Ground on the first set?

Aegislash and Heatran, while still hitting steels

 

[alexwolf]

Aegislash and Heatran, while still hitting steels

Heatran is unavailable for now and Aegislash is hit by HP Fire anyway.

 

[Jibaku]

Throwing this in

<p>Xerneas @ Choice Scarf<br />
Ability: Fairy Aura<br />
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe <br />
Naive Nature (+SpA, -Atk)<br />
- Megahorn<br />
- Moonblast<br />
- Close Combat<br />
- Thunderbolt</p>

Notes:
- Can revenge both Mewtwo formes. EVs allow Megahorn to OHKO Mega Mewtwo Y after SR damage. Can invest more to OHKO without residual damage. Moonblast takes care of Mewtwo X.
- Most of the EVs are placed in SAtk for Moonblast spamming
- CC for blobs/ferro
- Thunderbolt for uhh...Charizard?
- Also outruns +1 Haxorus.

 

[Bryce]

What about a defensive CM set similar to CM Ogre or CM Latias?It could have some use on a stallish team since It's Steel type checks like Aegislash and Scizor can be worn down through hazards or Burns. A set like CM/Rest/Sleep Talk/Moonblast or CM/Reflect/Rest/Moonblast might be a good cleaner for defensive and balance teams since it's pretty hard to kill and gets good neutral coverage. It can also act as a Stall Breaker beating the pink blobs while recovering status moves and being hard to kill in general.As a bonus it's typing lets it counter/check Dragon/Fighting/Dark type threats with enough investments.

 

[Haruno]

That is correct. In the Pokebank section of the set, those two moves will be reccomended. I may still mention the Hidden Powers and Sub though, in addition to In Grain. But yeah, without Ho-Oh and Kyogre, Psyshock and Thunderbolt just aren't as good as they normally would be.

Anyways, currently, the Xerneas EV spread is max Speed. that's because me and Jibaku are... unsure of what the Speed should be. Also, a Scarf set is going to be added, for checking Mewtwo and a few other mons.

For speed I find 56 speed to be the most optimal being able to outrun scarfed yveltal should be a passable benchmark. While allowing to invest the rest in bulk, not to mention that the only other base 100+ are all special attackers (bar mewtwo who gets ohko'd by moonblast while xern can take a hit). Hp fire/moonblast is definitely the most optimal set, hitting everything for neutral/SE damage bar moltres and talonflame but the later is ohko'd so that's a pretty moot point.

 

[Hack]

Scarf Xerneas should probably have Sleep Talk slashed somewhere. With the chance of waking up this is really good, but it ofc it's easier to "sack" something to sleep this gen since the old sleep mechanics are back. Still, Xerneas it's nice having something to absorb sleep nontheless. Also, Rock Slide isn't a bad option, works a bit like Stone Edge scarf Reshiram in BW, it can probably lure out Ho-oh most of time, deserves a mention on scarf imo.

Max speed on the scarf set is a bit unnecessary too. You have no business speed tying with Genesect in most cases anyway, so instead I'd run 224 speed evs to get the jump on 95 base scarfers and +1 speed mons like Kyurem-W etc. This frees up more EVs for firepower, something that is always appreciated on a scarfer that isn't too strong.

 

[steelskitty]

Just thought I'd give my two cents on Xerneas.

Thunder Xerneas deserves a mention, it hits most (if not all) viable steels while also taking care of several specially defensive Pokemon that want to come in on Xerneas (Kyogre and Ho-oh are the big ones). Also, Thunder hits checks like Aegislash harder, enabling Xerneas to take them down if they suffer just a little prior damage. While it's not as reliable this generation, the power difference between it and Thunderbolt is pretty significant; it should at least show up in A & C. And yes, it's viable over either HP Fire or Focus Miss in slot 4 of the first set.

Ferrothorn is unviable this generation. It lost its infinite rain, and defog users get rid of its spikes. While a Sdef Gyro Ball variant technically checks Moonblast/Thunder Xerneas, it isn't good outside of that lol.

Bryce, I have seen defensive/calm mind Xerneas in the past, and I have to say it was underwhelming. It still loses to its normal checks, and doesn't really break well-built stall either. Also, Calm Mind+Sleep Talk mons are unreliable as heck. Reflect could be an interesting option on it, but Xerneas lacks space as it is. CM/Reflect/Rest/Moonblast misses out on any reliable way to attack whilst asleep, unless Xerneas wants to resort to a chesto-rest set, which has its own issues.

Agreeing with Hack, Sleep Talk/Rock Slide sounds cool on a scarf set.

I don't know how Psyshock Xerneas is relevant, Poisonceus didn't really get that much better this generation and it's still uncommon, at least to my knowledge.

EDIT: didn't realize some of those moves were unreleased currently, but, who knows, once Pokebank comes out n_n.

 

[Donkey]

Just thought I'd give my two cents on Xerneas.

Thunder Xerneas deserves a mention, it hits most (if not all) viable steels while also taking care of several specially defensive Pokemon that want to come in on Xerneas (Kyogre and Ho-oh are the big ones). Also, Thunder hits checks like Aegislash harder, enabling Xerneas to take them down if they suffer just a little prior damage. While it's not as reliable this generation, the power difference between it and Thunderbolt is pretty significant; it should at least show up in A & C. And yes, it's viable over either HP Fire or Focus Miss in slot 4 of the first set.

Ferrothorn is unviable this generation. It lost its infinite rain, and defog users get rid of its spikes. While a Sdef Gyro Ball variant technically checks Moonblast/Thunder Xerneas, it isn't good outside of that lol.

Bryce, I have seen defensive/calm mind Xerneas in the past, and I have to say it was underwhelming. It still loses to its normal checks, and doesn't really break well-built stall either. Also, Calm Mind+Sleep Talk mons are unreliable as heck. Reflect could be an interesting option on it, but Xerneas lacks space as it is. CM/Reflect/Rest/Moonblast misses out on any reliable way to attack whilst asleep, unless Xerneas wants to resort to a chesto-rest set, which has its own issues.

Agreeing with Hack, Sleep Talk/Rock Slide sounds cool on a scarf set.

I don't know how Psyshock Xerneas is relevant, Poisonceus didn't really get that much better this generation and it's still uncommon, at least to my knowledge.

EDIT: didn't realize some of those moves were unreleased currently, but, who knows, once Pokebank comes out n_n.

amoongus but its not really worth it since it will jsut switch out to a diff check anyways (in pokebank sry moderator team but ithink thats what skittys asking)

 

[Fixed]

Thunder,Hidden Power Rock and Psyshock should be slashed alongside Substitute on the Geomancy set. Psyshock is useful because it 2hko's Ho-Oh and Chansey and ohko's Gengar, which Moonblast and Focus Blast cannot do. It should be noted that the remaining EVs can be put into Defense instead of HP, to take on priority revengers better.

The LO set should have Rock Slide in the last slot. Calm Mind can possibly be slashed, but Thunderbolt is literally useless because Moonblast hits Kyogre/Lugia/Aegislash harder. It is also possible to use Expert Belt with this moveset.

For the Choice Scarf moveset, Thunderbolt is again useless. Rock Slide is the obvious alternative, and HP Fire can also be put somewhere on the set.

 

[Unowninator]

Damn, are there any better attacks for the Geomancy set? My best Xerneas' Hidden Power is Ice (may as well us Aurora Beam), and I refuse to use Focus Blast because I find it misses too much.

 

[Furai]

<p>Xerneas @ Leftovers<br />
Ability: Fairy Aura<br />
EVs: 44 HP / 240 SpA / 224 Spe<br />
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)<br />
- Substitute<br />
- Calm Mind<br />
- Moonblast<br />
- Psyshock / Roar/ Thunder</p>

where is this

- 44 HP = 101 subs, 224 Spe = outspeeds base 95 neutral, rest in SpA
- SubCM owns
- psyshock owns chanseys and ho-oh, roar shuffles, thunder hits kyogre & ho-oh harder
- v strong set

 

[Disaster Area]

No mention of ingrain? I think that's a move with potential on the geomancy set; it provides it with healing and, more importantly perhaps, means it cannot be phazed by lugia and co. Furthermore u can still run 2 offensive moves alongside it (presumably Moonblast and Focus Miss/HP Fire/Rock/Psyshock/Thunderbolt/Whateverthefuckpeoplerunonthisthing)

 

[Unowninator]

No mention of ingrain? I think that's a move with potential on the geomancy set; it provides it with healing and, more importantly perhaps, means it cannot be phazed by lugia and co. Furthermore u can still run 2 offensive moves alongside it (presumably Moonblast and Focus Miss/HP Fire/Rock/Psyshock/Thunderbolt/Whateverthefuckpeoplerunonthisthing)

IMO, that would be way too risky. First, it takes 2 turns to set up both moves, same as Geomancy without a Power Herb. And second, it makes it easy to kill/set up if it can't switch.

 

[Shiruba]

<p>Xerneas @ Choice Scarf<br />
Ability: Fairy Aura<br />
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe <br />
Naive Nature (+SpA, -Atk)<br />
- Megahorn<br />
- Moonblast<br />
- Close Combat<br />
- Thunderbolt</p>

you mean +Spe, -SDef, right?

 

[Disaster Area]

IMO, that would be way too risky. First, it takes 2 turns to set up both moves, same as Geomancy without a Power Herb. And second, it makes it easy to kill/set up if it can't switch.

Well, if you choose to set up against a lugia, for example, you could ingrain first turn as it mispredicts a geomancy it can phase you out of, and then geomancy on a switch/when it uses a status move on you/roosts. It's hypothetical, but I can find players who certify its value.