No Spinning, No Winning

[imaloony80]

Hey, this is my first Rate My Team, so let's just dive right in.

I love Greninja. Love his ninja-froggy goodness, and I wanted to find a way to really build a team around him and how tricky of an ability Protean is. Something eventually dawned on me: Greninja isn't limited to what he can Protean shift into because of the magic of Hidden Power, which made me instantly want to use him in the core of a hazards team.

Greninja @ Leftovers
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 SpA
Timid Nature
- Hidden Power Ghost
- Spikes
- Ice Beam
- U-Turn

Yes, a bulky, hazard-setting, spin blocking Greninja. I'm rather proud of this, regardless of how efficient it is because absolutely no one expects it. Trevenant's dead and the opposing Forretress thinks he gets an easy spin on my Greninja? Of course he doesn't, and now he's taking an unresisted STAB'd special move to the face! On top of that, the spikes really give lead Rotoms issues volt switching out, and in case of an unfavorable matchup, the U-Turn for momentum is always nice.

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Att
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch

Here's where I'm somewhat iffy. T-Tar is an amazing special wall who can set up rocks while still bringing the pain, which is exactly what I want, but the sand isn't the most beneficial thing for my team, and I'm still questioning my decision to take him Mega rather than just slapping Lefties on him. Despite that, he's an excellent rocks setter and I'd rather he or his equal stay about.

Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Earth Power

The newest member of my team, Nidoking loves to bring some Toxic Spikes to the party, and whenever the pesky poison types show up to absorb them, he has a Sheer Force Life Orb'd Earth Power with their name on it. I'm still not certain of my coverage moves, as Ice Beam may fit better (I like to keep as much electric/ice/rock power on the team as possible to keep the pesky Defoggers at bay)...

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Whirlwind
- Spikes
- Roost

Believe it or not, but I tried running him as an offensive Life Orber at first after this team got stomped on by a Mega Venasaur, but I recognize now that a defensive Roost variant can wreck the 'Saur just as easily, if not more so. Redundant spikes because while I love the hell out of Greninja, he has a tenancy to explode sometimes due to his frailty, and Skarm generally has an easier time setting them up anyways. Whirlwinding my foes into my hazards is just an added bonus.

Hitmontop @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / Att
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch (Foresight?)
- Toxic

I debated long and hard about using a spinner on this team, and after getting wrecked by hazards, that which my team is supposed to use to win, I eventually broke down and added one, debating long and hard before settling on Hitmontop. In general, I've had some trouble with physical attackers, and Intimidate Top seems to be just what the doctor ordered. Still, getting walled by ghosts isn't terribly fun, so I'm considering dropping Sucker Punch (Which hasn't seen much use TBH) for Foresight.

Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Att
Careful Nature
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Curse
- Shadow Claw

Let it never be said that I didn't give credit where credit is due: I saw this set used by BlameTruth in his showdown sessions (The B-Tree, he calls it) and it has worked wonders for me, stalling out and forcing switches into my hazards with how deliciously evil it can turn out to be. The issue is I often need to use it to take down big threats, and I often tunnel vision on those threats so hard that when Mega Kanga comes in my poor tree is already too dead to wall it. On the other hand, it makes a fantastic spin-blocker and is all-around just obnoxious for my opponent.

I'm still seeing an iffy win-rate with this team, and I end up getting stalled a lot, and often my only result is to use Skarm to scare stallers away, or just stall in response, which only works if Trevenant is the one doing it. I'd love some advice, because I know this team needs some work.

 

[gallolala]

Just a thing. Since sitrus berry restores a set amount of hp, wouldnt it make more sense to take some of that hp investment and put it into sdef or something? (Lose the same percentage to an attack, but heal back a higher percentage)

 

[Arcticblast]

Just a thing. Since sitrus berry restores a set amount of hp, wouldnt it make more sense to take some of that hp investment and put it into sdef or something? (Lose the same percentage to an attack, but heal back a higher percentage)

Sitrus Berry restores 25% of your maximum HP.

If you want a hazard setter that is immune to Normal, why not just use Froslass? It's a far more capable setter-spinblocker because of its nice support movepool (Taunt, Thunder Wave, and Destiny Bond are all viable attacks on it) and it lets you use a Greninja for... you know, the way Greninja is supposed to be used.

 

[tcr]

Hey man, from what I see of this team, your goal is pretty much to wear them down with hazards, using stall offense. You like to use Trevenant to wall the big threats, and use greninja to mess with the opponent's head with protean. Pretty cool team!

However, you are really weak to threats like mega kangaskhan, and mega lucario. Trevenant isnt exactly the most reliable of spin blockers either, especially as it doesnt carry Will o Wisp, meaning big threats like excadrill are even bigger. Now hitmontop isnt that well either, as talonflame is huge this generation, and as such, a very simple core of excadrill+talonflame does pretty bad numbers to your team, especially since +2 iron head 2hkoes trevenant. Mega kang is also a big threat once trevenant is gone, as +1 kang return does like, 90% to hitmontop (the PuP on switchin koes with rocks up at full health). Your only hope is to whirlwind with skarm, who quite honestly i find pretty poor with the rise of rotom w and the unleashment of genesect and thunderus.

Run Physically Defensive Trevenant. Having WoW to burn threats really helps wear down opponents and also lets you beat excadrill when at full health, which is pretty neat considering +2 excadrill is a scry thing for you to face.

switch Stone Edge and Fire Punch to the standard Ice Beam and Fire Blast. It allows you to lure in things like landorus, scizor, bisharp, lucario, and gliscor and either severely dent or outright ohko. Besides, pursuit nails talonflame switchouts hard enough anyway. Also, switch out Tyranitarite for Leftovers as it helps better with longevity.

I would also switch Skarmory to a Rocky Helmet to mess with attackers. Thats personal preference tho, it gives you another solid check to things like aegislash and mega kang, as well as punishing genesect who like to u turn. Since you arent running taunt, you can simply switch those 24 Spe EVs into Defense.

Lastly, theres no real reason to run toxic spikes on nidoking. In fact, Nidoking as whole is pretty mediocre, so I think switching this to Analytic Starmie would be more beneficial. This gives you a nice attacker who hits even harder when forcing a switch. By running Rapid Spin on it, you free up a slot for hitmontop, essentially making it useless. This allows you to run a nice fighting type sweeper, and I suggest Mega Lucario as it hits so hard and appreciates tyranitars ability to get rid of latias, talonflame, and lure in landorus and gliscor. Hope I helped with your team, good luck!

sets

Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Analytic
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam

Mega-Lucario @ Lucarionite
Trait: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk/ 4 SpD/ 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Crunch/Earthquake/Ice Punch

 

[imaloony80]

Hey man, from what I see of this team, your goal is pretty much to wear them down with hazards, using stall offense. You like to use Trevenant to wall the big threats, and use greninja to mess with the opponent's head with protean. Pretty cool team!

However, you are really weak to threats like mega kangaskhan, and mega lucario. Trevenant isnt exactly the most reliable of spin blockers either, especially as it doesnt carry Will o Wisp, meaning big threats like excadrill are even bigger. Now hitmontop isnt that well either, as talonflame is huge this generation, and as such, a very simple core of excadrill+talonflame does pretty bad numbers to your team, especially since +2 iron head 2hkoes trevenant. Mega kang is also a big threat once trevenant is gone, as +1 kang return does like, 90% to hitmontop (the PuP on switchin koes with rocks up at full health). Your only hope is to whirlwind with skarm, who quite honestly i find pretty poor with the rise of rotom w and the unleashment of genesect and thunderus.

Run Physically Defensive Trevenant. Having WoW to burn threats really helps wear down opponents and also lets you beat excadrill when at full health, which is pretty neat considering +2 excadrill is a scry thing for you to face.

switch Stone Edge and Fire Punch to the standard Ice Beam and Fire Blast. It allows you to lure in things like landorus, scizor, bisharp, lucario, and gliscor and either severely dent or outright ohko. Besides, pursuit nails talonflame switchouts hard enough anyway. Also, switch out Tyranitarite for Leftovers as it helps better with longevity.

I would also switch Skarmory to a Rocky Helmet to mess with attackers. Thats personal preference tho, it gives you another solid check to things like aegislash and mega kang, as well as punishing genesect who like to u turn. Since you arent running taunt, you can simply switch those 24 Spe EVs into Defense.

Lastly, theres no real reason to run toxic spikes on nidoking. In fact, Nidoking as whole is pretty mediocre, so I think switching this to Analytic Starmie would be more beneficial. This gives you a nice attacker who hits even harder when forcing a switch. By running Rapid Spin on it, you free up a slot for hitmontop, essentially making it useless. This allows you to run a nice fighting type sweeper, and I suggest Mega Lucario as it hits so hard and appreciates tyranitars ability to get rid of latias, talonflame, and lure in landorus and gliscor. Hope I helped with your team, good luck!

The Physically Defensive Trevanent is a good idea. I'll give that shot.

I'm very, very hesitant to using Ice Beam and Fire Blast on Tyranitar. Why? Well, the only other physical attacks on my team are on Greninja (Who's running a -Att Nature because U-Turn is only really for the initiative), Skarmory (only as a check to the Grass types, especially Mega Venasaur), and Hitmontop. Without a decent set of Physical Attacks on Tyranitar my whole team (Minus Hitmontop, which is a flimsy check at best) is walled by Chansey/Blissey. However, as you later mention running Mega Lucario, that would effectively rid that weakness again. The Tyranitarite I stripped off a while ago, I just never updated this post.

I've always been iffy on what exactly to run on my this particular Skarm. I'll try the helmet.

I agree on the Toxic Spikes on Nidoking Point, but I do like his presence on the team, as he's really the only heavy-hitter I have. Starmie, again, I'm hesitant to do because it'll give me a triple weakness to electricity, and with all those Rotom-Ws running around, that could be a problem.

I'll shuffle the team around a bit based on your suggestions and see how it goes.

 

[alexthegreat14]

I'm liking this team. if you don't like the sandstorm that ttar brings, you can always run unnerve. this along with running fireblast and treevant, custap berry users and other pkmn which rely on berries to preform.

also, if this is a pokebank team (or when pokebank comes out) you should replace gredinja with froslass with the following set:

Focus sash cursed body
timid nature 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-spikes
-ice beam
-shadow ball
-destiny bond

this will allow you to to lay spikes and get a quick KO and the start of each match.

however if you do not want to remove Gredinja, you already running spikes on skarmory and you are currently not running any stab moves. Therefore, i suggest using hydro pump instead and changing the Ev's for a more offensive set (240spd/ 252sp atk/ 16atk) a naive nature and a life orb. this spread will allow for more power while still outspeeding all base 120 pkmn

best of luck!!!

 

[imaloony80]

I'm liking this team. if you don't like the sandstorm that ttar brings, you can always run unnerve. this along with running fireblast and treevant, custap berry users and other pkmn which rely on berries to preform.

also, if this is a pokebank team (or when pokebank comes out) you should replace gredinja with froslass with the following set:

Focus sash cursed body
timid nature 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-spikes
-ice beam
-shadow ball
-destiny bond

this will allow you to to lay spikes and get a quick KO and the start of each match.

however if you do not want to remove Gredinja, you already running spikes on skarmory and you are currently not running any stab moves. Therefore, i suggest using hydro pump instead and changing the Ev's for a more offensive set (240spd/ 252sp atk/ 16atk) a naive nature and a life orb. this spread will allow for more power while still outspeeding all base 120 pkmn

best of luck!!!

Well, if I'm running Specially Defensive Tyranitar, I'd be a moron for not running Sand Stream. The Sand ends up not hurting my team too bad in the end.

I really, really, really hate Froslass. I know it's good, I know it does its job extremely well, I just hate the bugger. Besides, I built this team around the Greninja, and I like Greninja a lot, and he does quite a bit of work, so I'd rather keep him.
I explained the redundant spikes earlier, and they often end up working well. Greninja isn't really there to do damage, he's there to dance and keep the opponent on his toes by jumping in and out, dropping hazards once in a while, blocking attacks and then running away laughing his head off. It's really not a traditional Greninja set, and as such he doesn't really like the damage very much.

Thanks for the suggestions anyways.

I played a game running the team Greninja/Skarmory/Starmie/Mega Lucario/Tyranitar/Trevenant and it worked out well. I'll play around with it a bit, but so far it's working well. Thanks TCR!