Just for the record, this thread is about sets that can be viable in OU. There's been a lot of leeway over the past 12 pages, but Persian will never be OU (or any tier but possibly NU) viable, so I'm not sure if this is the right place to discuss it.
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Other Creative / Underrated Sets Thread (Read the thread, NO SHITTY GIMMICKS)
- Thread starter ginganinja
- Start date
- Status
No.
Persian is god awful.
Even this tiny tiny niche is outclassed by Ambipom, who has the same speed and 30 higher attack (and Ambipom sucks as well). This isn't underrated, this is just bad.
Ambipom also gets Taunt tho.
ambipom does not suck at all. it's UU for a reason. it has quite a few real sets and some great gimmick sets as well. The fake out/last resort set is quite amazing for cleaning once you get rid of any ghosts
The trouble is that Ambipom does get Taunt and has a solid movepool as well, and even then he's stuck in the lower tiers. Look, I know you must love Persian, everyone has a favorite Pokemon (bet you'll never guess mine)! But there's nothing creative or underrated about that moveset, Persian gets very little usage even in NU for a reason. If you wanted to make a creative set, you should at least add Persian's new toy: Technician Hidden Power. Persian isn't even released in XY yet so we don't know if it gets anything new, until then there's not much sense in discussing it further.
I'm not going to argue about a worthless Pokemon that's been steadily dropping since rby, and hasn't had any noteworthy changes.
I will however argue about some terrain weather combos I've been testing
ampharos @ ampharosite
Modest 252 SpA 252 hp 4 spe (still messing with ev's)
Rain dance
Electric terrain
Thunder
Dragon pulse
Not too creative as I wasn't the first to think of it, but it packs a punch and can easily take the hits to run the set up.
Tangrowth @ heat rock/life orb
Chlorophyll
Modest 252 SpA 252 hp 4 spd
Sunny day
Grassy terrain
Petal dance/solar beam
HP fire
Both need team support as they have mediocre coverage, they do great at breaking walls and proceeding to take out a few more threats. EV suggestions are welcome
I will however argue about some terrain weather combos I've been testing
ampharos @ ampharosite
Modest 252 SpA 252 hp 4 spe (still messing with ev's)
Rain dance
Electric terrain
Thunder
Dragon pulse
Not too creative as I wasn't the first to think of it, but it packs a punch and can easily take the hits to run the set up.
Tangrowth @ heat rock/life orb
Chlorophyll
Modest 252 SpA 252 hp 4 spd
Sunny day
Grassy terrain
Petal dance/solar beam
HP fire
Both need team support as they have mediocre coverage, they do great at breaking walls and proceeding to take out a few more threats. EV suggestions are welcome
I wrote a lengthy analysis on Overcoat Forretress as a defensive pivot in OU with general strategy and some damage calcs, along with what it checks/counters:
Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
One of the less discussed changes coming with Gen 6 is the slight buff to Overcoat -- it now grants immunity to powder type moves, including Spore, Sleep Powder, Stun Spore etc in addition to its former immunities from sandstorm and hail damage in previous generations. Although this change, along with Grass type Pokemon receiving similar immunities, serve as indirect nerfs to moves like Spore and Sleep Powder, their presence in OU is still widespread and threatening in the forms of Spore Sash Smeargle, Breloom, and some variations of Mega Venusaur.
The Pokemon I’ve found that has some usage in the newly buffed Overcoat ability is Forretress. In the past, Forretress could be used as a suicide lead with Custap Berry + Sturdy as a means to get Stealth Rock and some other hazard or spin up before it fainted. This build was probably most suitable for Hyper Offense playstyles in Gen 5 OU. Admittedly I am a newcomer to competitive battling, with my last days of battling being on GSBot on IRC for Gen 2 mechanics. Back then, I used Forretress and wanted to keep him relevant in the current Gen 6 OU. I have seen common Forretress builds run Sturdy 99% of the time, with items usually being Leftovers or the occasional Red Card, which I used to run in the past.
Given the shift towards a bulkier offensive OU, the indirect nerfs to hazards in moves like Defog, and the increasing amount of physical sweeper threats, I’ve found that Forretress’s best role, at least in the case of my team, comes as a defensive pivot. Using him as a suicide lead just to get hazards up that can easily be removed often left me at a huge disadvantage, losing one wall, my only spinner, and only hazard setter.
The proposed build I use now is
Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
Anti Lead vs Spore Sash Smeargle: Typically if I see a Smeargle in the team preview, I will send Forretress first. The usual Turn 1 move is Smeargle outspeeding me with either a Magic Coat or Spore, during which I opt for the Gyro Ball. Immunity to Spore ruins Smeargle's gameplan and opting to not set hazards wastes the Magic Coat. Taunt also fails to protect from Gyro Ball, Volt Switch and Rapid Spin that you would use in the next few turns:
Gyro Ball puts a huge dent in the common Smeargle build and ruins its sash. Turn 2 is a harder read, but if you've got them books then you can try to guess the following options:
Scout his team preview first -- do the rest of his Pokemon absolutely need Sticky Web to remain threatening? Are they slow, bulky offensive Pokemon? Or is his team defensive and stall based, would he benefit from passive damage from SR, or does he feel threatened by SR weak threats on your team? You can use these questions to guide whether you would try to Rapid Spin, or if you'd rather Volt Switch into a Pokemon that doesn't mind these hazards -- ie Volt Switching into my Bisharp on his Sticky Web procs Defiant, giving me a free Swords Dance, but if SR, I take minimal damage.
This build also checks Spore/Sub whatever Brelooms. Forretress walls Bullet Punch and Bullet Seed all day. Once I tank Spore that turn I can generally set up Rocks or do a bit of damage with Gyro Ball. The next turn I tend to Volt Switch on their Sub or Leech Seed into my scarfed Chandelure with Infiltrator to put Breloom in serious check.
Overall, this build has given me much more utility to my team. It has tried and true recovery, good defense, and checks specific threats to my team. He can serve as a defensive pivot against the right attacks (resisted physical, status moves) with an extra slow volt switch. Its shift from suicide lead can help secure clutch hazard control mid/late game that can turn tides in your favor. After running Sturdy and Sturdy + Red Card, I find it's just fairly useless as your Forretress becomes pigeonholed into a single-use Pokemon. If you are threatened by an OHKOing special Fire move, switch to your spec/fire wall. I'd argue that it's not worth it to set up rocks and try to keep him around at 1% especially now that Custap is not legal in OU to do anything more than set rocks and die. If you're up against say, a T-Tar boasting Fire Blast and manage to survive thanks to Sturdy, you're never going to be able to switch in onto the rocks that T-tar likely sets next turn to spin them away if you're at 1%.
The Pokemon I’ve found that has some usage in the newly buffed Overcoat ability is Forretress. In the past, Forretress could be used as a suicide lead with Custap Berry + Sturdy as a means to get Stealth Rock and some other hazard or spin up before it fainted. This build was probably most suitable for Hyper Offense playstyles in Gen 5 OU. Admittedly I am a newcomer to competitive battling, with my last days of battling being on GSBot on IRC for Gen 2 mechanics. Back then, I used Forretress and wanted to keep him relevant in the current Gen 6 OU. I have seen common Forretress builds run Sturdy 99% of the time, with items usually being Leftovers or the occasional Red Card, which I used to run in the past.
Given the shift towards a bulkier offensive OU, the indirect nerfs to hazards in moves like Defog, and the increasing amount of physical sweeper threats, I’ve found that Forretress’s best role, at least in the case of my team, comes as a defensive pivot. Using him as a suicide lead just to get hazards up that can easily be removed often left me at a huge disadvantage, losing one wall, my only spinner, and only hazard setter.
The proposed build I use now is
Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
Anti Lead vs Spore Sash Smeargle: Typically if I see a Smeargle in the team preview, I will send Forretress first. The usual Turn 1 move is Smeargle outspeeding me with either a Magic Coat or Spore, during which I opt for the Gyro Ball. Immunity to Spore ruins Smeargle's gameplan and opting to not set hazards wastes the Magic Coat. Taunt also fails to protect from Gyro Ball, Volt Switch and Rapid Spin that you would use in the next few turns:
- 4 Atk Forretress Gyro Ball (89) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Smeargle: 195-229 (62.1 - 72.9%)
- 0 SpA Forretress Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Smeargle: 62-74 (19.7 - 23.5%)
- 4 Atk Forretress Rapid Spin vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Smeargle: 30-36 (9.5 - 11.4%)
Gyro Ball puts a huge dent in the common Smeargle build and ruins its sash. Turn 2 is a harder read, but if you've got them books then you can try to guess the following options:
- Smeargle uses Sticky Web/Stealth Rock, you go for the Rapid Spin on that turn.
- Smeargle switches out, you can go for the Volt Switch and retain momentum.
Scout his team preview first -- do the rest of his Pokemon absolutely need Sticky Web to remain threatening? Are they slow, bulky offensive Pokemon? Or is his team defensive and stall based, would he benefit from passive damage from SR, or does he feel threatened by SR weak threats on your team? You can use these questions to guide whether you would try to Rapid Spin, or if you'd rather Volt Switch into a Pokemon that doesn't mind these hazards -- ie Volt Switching into my Bisharp on his Sticky Web procs Defiant, giving me a free Swords Dance, but if SR, I take minimal damage.
This build also checks Spore/Sub whatever Brelooms. Forretress walls Bullet Punch and Bullet Seed all day. Once I tank Spore that turn I can generally set up Rocks or do a bit of damage with Gyro Ball. The next turn I tend to Volt Switch on their Sub or Leech Seed into my scarfed Chandelure with Infiltrator to put Breloom in serious check.
Overall, this build has given me much more utility to my team. It has tried and true recovery, good defense, and checks specific threats to my team. He can serve as a defensive pivot against the right attacks (resisted physical, status moves) with an extra slow volt switch. Its shift from suicide lead can help secure clutch hazard control mid/late game that can turn tides in your favor. After running Sturdy and Sturdy + Red Card, I find it's just fairly useless as your Forretress becomes pigeonholed into a single-use Pokemon. If you are threatened by an OHKOing special Fire move, switch to your spec/fire wall. I'd argue that it's not worth it to set up rocks and try to keep him around at 1% especially now that Custap is not legal in OU to do anything more than set rocks and die. If you're up against say, a T-Tar boasting Fire Blast and manage to survive thanks to Sturdy, you're never going to be able to switch in onto the rocks that T-tar likely sets next turn to spin them away if you're at 1%.
Starf Berry only triggers when your HP is low, and the point of this set is bulky survival, Your HP will only get low once or twice if pulled off!
Kee Berry Triggers on EVERY physical attack!
Yea I meant Impish lol! FIXED!
The coverage is a little bad but after 2-3 DD's and Leaf Blade (which has a high crit rate) You are guaranteed to outdamage physical opposition and just Roost away the damage! Talonflames do about 2/3 of Tropius's HP with the initial Brave Bird/Flare Blitz, and causes your Kee Berry to Trigger increasing your Defenses by 50%. A follow up Brave Bird does kill but most Talonflames want to Roost off the damage they have taken first (especially if Life Orb'd), just follow it up with Roost as well. Their chances on OTK'ing you at that point relies on a critical hit.
Here are some Calculations
252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tropius: 254-302 (63.1 - 75.1%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tropius: 330-393 (82 - 97.7%)
And after you have obtained 1 single Kee Berry Boost
252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Tropius: 170-204 (42.2 - 50.7%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Tropius: 221-265 (54.9 - 65.9%)
Talonflame CANNOT OTK Tropius without Rocks, even with Life Orb. All you have to do is bait a physical attack (Like Aegislash's inevitable Shadow Sneak), watch the opposition switch in their Talonflame Counter and fail miserably! HAHA
Predict the Roost and punish Talonflame with the unexpected Earthquake or just keep Roosting while each Brave Bird does less and less damage until its comfortable enough to Dragon Dance. I will post some replays of my PokeShowdown battles soon!
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Finally managed to pull on some tests online with my Physical Wall Gothitelle. Although it seems I overvalued the build, it has a lot of potential, serious potential.
I must start on saying that, this thing kills megablaziken and megakhangaskan like nothing. Even an adamant megablaziken using flare blitz will deal 40% damage (with modest nature, imagine if she were bold), while khangaskan deals really low damage unless it is sucker punch, which is just play little mind games. I must say that being vs blaziken will make psych up really effective, making her a beast after dealing on with blaziken, and becoming a super fast sweeper with dark pulse. Without trying psychic/psyshock, I must say I'm satisfied with dark pulse, giving her more chances to stall the opponent. After all, you're not in a hurry to kill it, since he/she's not going anywhere, lol.
Physical builds with swords dance or dragon dance can become a problem, if they manage to overpower gothitelle's defense, is done for you, so Megalucario is really hard if he just swords dance 2 or 3 times, and makes you dependant to hax, but in the worst case, you just crippled out a nice offensive pokemon, which is not bad at all, but priority moves can ruin the day. Anyway, the build is not just really fun to play, but totally unexpected for the opponent. It is best intended for a 6vs6 match rather than 3vs3, so you can pick up your victims more wisely. The build could also potentially defeat a baton pass team, since you just copy all the buffs they make and just spam dark pulse until you win.
Priority is so important as this point in 6th gen. Choice scarfers can really become a liability in many situations and extremespeed is probably one of the most integral priority moves at the moment.
Genesect @ Life Orb
Download
Hasty
252 atk/252 Spe/4 SpD
U-Turn
Extremespeed
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Genesect @ Life Orb
Download
Hasty
252 atk/252 Spe/4 SpD
U-Turn
Extremespeed
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Ferrothorn
Item:Leftovers
Brave
252 Hp/252 Atk/4 SpD
Curse
Power Whip
Gyro Ball
Bulldoze
This set aims to wreck your opponents physical pokemon and bring them to their knees. Curse+Gyro ball has knocked out DOZENS of pokemon in the metagame, and I have actually gotten a triple kill with this set. Bulldoze is great since it hits steel and fire types, such as Charizard-X that thought he could set up a dragon dance on me. It loses the speed, and has its hp DROPPED. Plus, if it tries to hit me with flare blitz the recoil+iron barbs hurt. This isn't a silly gimmick, since I have caught people off guard dozens of times since they expect a simple stealth rocker.
Item:Leftovers
Brave
252 Hp/252 Atk/4 SpD
Curse
Power Whip
Gyro Ball
Bulldoze
This set aims to wreck your opponents physical pokemon and bring them to their knees. Curse+Gyro ball has knocked out DOZENS of pokemon in the metagame, and I have actually gotten a triple kill with this set. Bulldoze is great since it hits steel and fire types, such as Charizard-X that thought he could set up a dragon dance on me. It loses the speed, and has its hp DROPPED. Plus, if it tries to hit me with flare blitz the recoil+iron barbs hurt. This isn't a silly gimmick, since I have caught people off guard dozens of times since they expect a simple stealth rocker.
I'm not sure why you would consider HP Poison. It works in theory, but a neutral Hydro Pump is pretty strong and deals with more threats, since even if you do run it to deal with fairies, you open up a new threatlist in the form of steels.
Hydro Pump does less damage but 2HKO's Azumarill anyway, so if it uses Belly Drum that's a dead Azu.
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill on a critical hit: 216-253 (53.4 - 62.6%)
The reason why I love Hydro Pump is that it can just deal with Assualt Vest Tyranitar in the sand!
HP Fire is far better for coverage and it deals with Ferrothorn, Skarm and the like. I prefer Hydro Pump when dealing with Fairies, barring Whimsicott...which HP Fire deals with anyway.
I feel the best coverage for Kingdra comes with
-Hydro Pump
-HP Fire
-Draco Meteor
Dragon + Fire coverage is still pretty good, and you still get the neat Hydro Pump STAB. I'm not sure, fairies aren't too hard too deal with since a Scizor could scare them off. And any Fairy that dares switch gets 2HKOd regardless of max investment (even Florges I believe). It's mostly preference really, but even the best case scenario (for the Fairy) provides great results (assuming on the switch, which is extremely likely).
EDIT:
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges on a critical hit: 190-225 (52.7 - 62.5%)
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon on a critical hit: 216-256 (54.8 - 64.9%)
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss on a critical hit: 235-279 (62.8 - 74.5%)
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Whimsicott on a critical hit: 228-270 (70.3 - 83.3%)
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gardevoir on a critical hit: 235-279 (69.1 - 82%)
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Gardevoir on a critical hit: 211-249 (62 - 73.2%)
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable on a critical hit: 276-325 (70 - 82.4%)
Sadly, Blissey has an easier time dealing with this monster:
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey on a critical hit: 247-292 (34.5 - 40.8%)
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Great set! Overcoat Forry, I find much more useful than Sturdy now, due to the nerf to Hidden Power Fire, and less people seeming to run it. Overcoat forry also saves you a slot on your team that is usually occupied by a grass type for the sole purpose of absorbing Breloom's Spore.
I've recently started using a physically defensive Bouffalant with great success:
Bouffalant @ Life Orb
Ability: Reckless
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Head Charge
- Earthquake
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
I never see anyone talk about Bouffalant, even in the lower tiers, and after using this set, I honestly have no idea why. While its most powerful attack is less efficient in a metagame where ghosts are quite common, it doesn't stop it from having a huge offensive presence, thanks to its unresisted coverage. It also works as a great pivot thanks to its defensive typing and physical bulk.
As an example of all the former statements, you can see that this set can take a LO Sacred Sword from Aegislash:
252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Bouffalant: 255-302 (76.8 - 90.9%)
...and retaliate with a OHKO EQ:
252 Atk Life Orb Bouffalant Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Aegislash-Blade: 299-354 (114.1 - 135.1%)
Now, Bouffalant is by no means a perfect Pokemon since it can be stopped by a few common threats, such as Air Balloon Aegislash, and it'll eventually KO itself due to all the residual damage, but the amount of work it can do without team support is simply impressive. I think the perfect way to describe it is: It's kind of like an invisible truck. It hits hard and most people won't see it coming.
I'll leave this replay here, since it does a great job at showcasing Bouffalant's potential, IMO:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-66895549
Bouffalant @ Life Orb
Ability: Reckless
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Head Charge
- Earthquake
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
I never see anyone talk about Bouffalant, even in the lower tiers, and after using this set, I honestly have no idea why. While its most powerful attack is less efficient in a metagame where ghosts are quite common, it doesn't stop it from having a huge offensive presence, thanks to its unresisted coverage. It also works as a great pivot thanks to its defensive typing and physical bulk.
As an example of all the former statements, you can see that this set can take a LO Sacred Sword from Aegislash:
252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Bouffalant: 255-302 (76.8 - 90.9%)
...and retaliate with a OHKO EQ:
252 Atk Life Orb Bouffalant Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Aegislash-Blade: 299-354 (114.1 - 135.1%)
Now, Bouffalant is by no means a perfect Pokemon since it can be stopped by a few common threats, such as Air Balloon Aegislash, and it'll eventually KO itself due to all the residual damage, but the amount of work it can do without team support is simply impressive. I think the perfect way to describe it is: It's kind of like an invisible truck. It hits hard and most people won't see it coming.
I'll leave this replay here, since it does a great job at showcasing Bouffalant's potential, IMO:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-66895549
Maybe with the new assault vest reuniclus can be used with its less used ability regenerator?
Reuniclus @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 200 SpA / 56 SpD
Modest Nature
-Psychic/Psyshock
-Focus Blast
-Shadow Ball
-Grass Knot/Energy Ball
This set basically has the aim of switching into special attackers, sponging a hit and hitting back with good coverage. This set is quite good vs rotom-w due to its ability to heal off from volt switch or hydro pump with regenerator, whilst threatening with a super effective energy ball.
Obviously it has to be used with a good defogger or spinner due to having a need to switch regularly, but its surprisingly resilient vs neutral hits and still has the raw power to destroy a lot of pokemon (especially those that are hurting themselves with life orb/hazards already). Another benefit is that you will naturally avoid being statused with burns and poisons on your first switch-in as people expect magic guard.
Regenerator is always strong as hell on basically anything and with assault vest I think reuniclus finally has a reason to start using it
Reuniclus @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 200 SpA / 56 SpD
Modest Nature
-Psychic/Psyshock
-Focus Blast
-Shadow Ball
-Grass Knot/Energy Ball
This set basically has the aim of switching into special attackers, sponging a hit and hitting back with good coverage. This set is quite good vs rotom-w due to its ability to heal off from volt switch or hydro pump with regenerator, whilst threatening with a super effective energy ball.
Obviously it has to be used with a good defogger or spinner due to having a need to switch regularly, but its surprisingly resilient vs neutral hits and still has the raw power to destroy a lot of pokemon (especially those that are hurting themselves with life orb/hazards already). Another benefit is that you will naturally avoid being statused with burns and poisons on your first switch-in as people expect magic guard.
Regenerator is always strong as hell on basically anything and with assault vest I think reuniclus finally has a reason to start using it
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I was able to use this Combusken to pass crits to Kingdra a few times, it's the only Pokemon with Speed Boost, Focus Energy and Baton Pass, and its Fire typing lets it lure Water type moves for Kingdra to resist. Defog or Rapid Spin support is very helpful to maintain the Focus Sash.
Combusken @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Focus Energy
- Fire Blast
- Baton Pass
Basically it just gains speed boosts and uses its sash to Focus Energy. It then Baton Passes to Kingdra who can sweep with crits, I've tried Draco Meteor/Surf/HP Fire with either Protect for Fake Out Kanga or Waterfall to hurt special walls a bit. Combusken is used because Ninjask and Scolipede don't get Focus Energy, another recipient I tried was a Hone Claws/Stone Edge/Cross Chop/Razor Shell Barbaracle which could occasionally sweep.
Maybe a bulkier spread would be better, and maybe instead of Fire Blast, Reversal/Focus Blast?
Combusken @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Focus Energy
- Fire Blast
- Baton Pass
Basically it just gains speed boosts and uses its sash to Focus Energy. It then Baton Passes to Kingdra who can sweep with crits, I've tried Draco Meteor/Surf/HP Fire with either Protect for Fake Out Kanga or Waterfall to hurt special walls a bit. Combusken is used because Ninjask and Scolipede don't get Focus Energy, another recipient I tried was a Hone Claws/Stone Edge/Cross Chop/Razor Shell Barbaracle which could occasionally sweep.
Maybe a bulkier spread would be better, and maybe instead of Fire Blast, Reversal/Focus Blast?
^Sniper Kingdra: HP Fire is only 2x effective vs. Whimsicott, which means that with Special Defence investment it can switch in on Kingdra and hit you with Prankster status, crippling Kingdra or even forcing a switch. HP Poison or Clear Smog are very definitive OHKOs even with Special Defence investment, meaning it can't switch in on you EVER. Azumarill can't switch in on Kingdra except on a predicted Draco Meteor, and if it does then it definitely won't bother trying to Belly Drum, it'll lose over half its HP regardless of whether it's hit with Hydro Pump, HP Poison, or Clear Smog, and simply OHKO Kingdra with Play Rough. The advantage Clear Smog has over HP Poison is that it allows Kingdra to be used to stop a Belly Drum Azumarill sweep. Kingdra switches in on an Aqua Jet (which is a 4HKO even at +6), outspeeds, and uses Clear Smog before being OHKO'd by Play Rough. At this point, Azumarill won't have enough HP to set up another Belly Drum.
I assume you are speaking to me XD
I guess it makes a fine counter to Azumarill, but what about Kingdra's performance with everything else? HP Poision gives you an edge over Fairies, but can't you leave that to another poke? Critdra doesn't have to sacrifice its coverage to get rid of threats, and mind you, these calcs I posted are a bit unrealistic as max investment in Sp.Def would cripple most of these Fairies' usability in dealing with the rest of your team (aside from support such as Whimsicott, Florges). Ferrothorn,which is much more common as a threat, and Kingdra will have nothing to deal with it (hence why I think HP Fire is so vital)...the thing I feel is that you can't apply the "have another poke to deal with logic" on Ferro is because it's everywhere!
Whimsicott still feels like an anomaly,than anything, and I'd rather keep the consistent 2hko's Hydro Pump offers as Clear Smog seems like too much effort to counter too specific of a threat. CB Azu is more threatening than Belly Drum IMO, and you can still force a switch on it when it's locked into Aqua Jet.
EDIT,I MEAN HUGE EDIT: If it's going to be baton-passed Focus energy,there's no reason why you can't run Clear Smog since you replace that move-slot Focus Energy uses for it. This definitely has its faults, but I'm going to test this route for a bit.
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Yes, I was replying to you. Sorry about that. >.<
Only thing is, all he needs is Focus Energy + Draco Meteor + Hydro Pump + Clear Smog, as Draco Meteor can often deliver a 2HKO (80.25% chance) to standard Ferrothorn with Stealth Rock up provided Ferro doesn't have Leftovers recovery. It's true, however, that HP Fire is definitely a very powerful option to run instead, as it is a guaranteed OHKO to Ferrothorn.
The difference between Choice Band Azumarill and Belly Drum Azumarill is that CB Azumarill can be a constant threat that can switch in and out repeatedly, but has less raw power than Belly Drum Azumarill. If Belly Drum + Sitrus Berry Azumarill manages to get set up, it can sweep almost an entire team.
Donphan @ assault vest
Ability: Sturdy
EVs 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Atk
Careful nature
-Rapid Spin
-Knock off
-Ice shard
-EQ/Stone edge/body slam
this donphan takes special hits really well. it really suprised me how tanky it is. and it can survive super effective hits thanks in part to being only ground type so it has no 4x weakness like most other ground/rock, rock/steel, water/ground tanks. i've been seeing is mostly damage based assault vest builds like Goodra and other high sp.atk, sp.def mons. Donphan has attacks that have utility, so it can use assault vest and give support to the team other than damage. it's naturally high attack means even no investment into attack EVs will still do decent damage, but dont think you'll be KOing things with good bulk. ice shard is good for finishing off sashed/sturdy, and punishing those dragons that are 4x to ice. knock off got an attack boost and i think is highly underrated.
Ability: Sturdy
EVs 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Atk
Careful nature
-Rapid Spin
-Knock off
-Ice shard
-EQ/Stone edge/body slam
this donphan takes special hits really well. it really suprised me how tanky it is. and it can survive super effective hits thanks in part to being only ground type so it has no 4x weakness like most other ground/rock, rock/steel, water/ground tanks. i've been seeing is mostly damage based assault vest builds like Goodra and other high sp.atk, sp.def mons. Donphan has attacks that have utility, so it can use assault vest and give support to the team other than damage. it's naturally high attack means even no investment into attack EVs will still do decent damage, but dont think you'll be KOing things with good bulk. ice shard is good for finishing off sashed/sturdy, and punishing those dragons that are 4x to ice. knock off got an attack boost and i think is highly underrated.
Honestly Ice Shard hasn't seemed like a great move on Donphan in quite a while, and I think a lot of people just run it because by now it's pretty much a tradition. Or I dunno, DOES Ice Shard actually get much use beyond finishing off sashers (which Rapid Spin should do just fine at, considering a lot of sashers are hazard leads)? How useful has it actually been? I can't help but wonder if like Stone Edge or something might be better.
Been running with a red card forretress lately ( I know it's not the newest thing). With Sturdy, he's guaranteed to live the hit, and then red cards that pokemon away, hopefully setting up a bunch of hazards before doing so.
The trick is to hope the opponent doesn't realize you're using redcard, and thus happily lets you set a few hazards while he boosts to supposedly nigh-unstoppable levels.
For example, a Talonflame that sees a forretress and goes for a few bulkups/sds, etc.
The trick is to hope the opponent doesn't realize you're using redcard, and thus happily lets you set a few hazards while he boosts to supposedly nigh-unstoppable levels.
For example, a Talonflame that sees a forretress and goes for a few bulkups/sds, etc.
I had been using a Forretress with Sturdy+Red Card SR/spikes set too but I think it's too inconsistent to use, especially if he is your only form of hazard control. I posted an alternative set earlier in the thread proposing a defensive pivot using Overcoat and leftovers. In my experience, common problems with Sturdy+Red Card is it's too specific/situational, it ideally works on an opponent who sees the predictable Forretress lead and tries to set up their own hazards or go for an offensive setup with Talonflame, Volcarona, or even Calm Mind Espeon. However, any hazards you set with Forretress are easily removed given the indirect nerfs to hazards (Defog etc) and then you've essentially lost a defensive wall and hazard control poke. At 1%, if your opponent manages to land rocks in midgame, there's no way you can switch Forretress onto them to spin without him dying. Having tanky Pokemon and phasing options are a better way to handle setup sweeper than gambling with Red Card, imo.
4 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 164-196 (49.54 - 59.21%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO
That's pretty weak, if I were to understate it.
There is no good reason to run Donphan over Excadrill right now anyway, the only things Donphan takes on better are Fighting-types (most of which can 2HKO with CB or with a boost anyway).
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