Pokémon Trevenant

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I'm running this set and it's so good.

Trevanant Lum Berry
Harvest / Careful
252 HP / 140 Def / 116 Spe
Will-O-Wisp
Rest
Shadow Claw
Wood Hammer

This is very similar to the ChestRest set but better! Using a Lum Berry instead of a Chesto Berry means there are less fucks to give about status, not forcing you to rest all the time. Wood Hammer is for obvious power, Shadow Claw for those other ghosts, and Wisp is to spread his love all around town. He works amazingly well with Tyranitar, especially with Wisp being everywhere. This out-stalls Blissey (even if she carries flamethrower), gives no shits about gilscor, etc. I'm telling you, this is the set you are all missing out on. Trevanant is a monster.
 
I'm running this set and it's so good.

Trevanant Lum Berry
Harvest / Careful
252 HP / 140 Def / 116 Spe
Will-O-Wisp
Rest
Shadow Claw
Wood Hammer

This is very similar to the ChestRest set but better! Using a Lum Berry instead of a Chesto Berry means there are less fucks to give about status, not forcing you to rest all the time. Wood Hammer is for obvious power, Shadow Claw for those other ghosts, and Wisp is to spread his love all around town. He works amazingly well with Tyranitar, especially with Wisp being everywhere. This out-stalls Blissey (even if she carries flamethrower), gives no shits about gilscor, etc. I'm telling you, this is the set you are all missing out on. Trevanant is a monster.

Personally if you're going to Lum Berry, you might as well just run Natural Cure instead.

Interestingly a Horn Leech + Assault Vest + Natural Cure set has quite immense sustain.
 
Personally if you're going to Lum Berry, you might as well just run Natural Cure instead.

Interestingly a Horn Leech + Assault Vest + Natural Cure set has quite immense sustain.
Except Natural Cure FORCES you to switch out, whereas LumHarvest is really useful for maintaining momentum against the oppponents team because its so hard to find things that want to switch into Trevenant all the time.
 
Has anyone tried Curse/Protect/Phantom Force? Any switch in you curse and the protect is immediately at 50% health and Phantom force is similar. Harvest Situs is probably really good with this. Horn Leech/WoW/Leech Seed for last slot?
 
Except Natural Cure FORCES you to switch out, whereas LumHarvest is really useful for maintaining momentum against the oppponents team because its so hard to find things that want to switch into Trevenant all the time.

this guy gets it, the point of lumrest is so that you really don't give a fuck about status but can heal up whenever you need to, using chestorest or natural cure means you have to give a slight fuck (forcing you to either use a move or switch out)
 
I would not run the full stall set against anyone competent, it's just begging to be taunt/substitute setup bait, not to mention magic bounce.

Curse BYPASSES substitute and magic bounce so it is pretty must a much have on him if you are going for a stall team. I suggest removing protect from your set if you don't know what to get rid of as he is quite a hard counter or gets countered so you will be switching a lot. protect is a waste of a turn in most cases.
 
I pretty much climbed to 1900 with a garbage team a couple of weeks back thanks to the Lum Harvest set. The Sitrus set I find has too unreliably recovery while still getting crippled by status. Most importantly, Lum Rest makes you immune to Rotom-W. Somebody posted this set quite early on in the thread, but I can't locate the post, but this is essentially the set:


Trevenant @ Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Curse
- Substitute
- Rest
- Will-O-Wisp

No protecting or subseeding shenanigans here. This set has one purpose, and that is to bring you a rollercoaster of momentum. You bring this bad boy in on anything not named Talonflame and set up shop. In most cases you'll hit that Substitute button like it's a U-turn on a Genesect, but firing off a Will-o-Wisp is fine too. Assuming step one went correctly, your opponent will either try statusing you, expecting the common Sitrus set, or switch out to a 'counter'. If that counter's physical offense, you burn it. It that counter's special offense, well, you can burn that too. In the case of fire types or pokemon of a wall-like quality, you hit them with a Curse. Quite often you'll end up at this stage after your opponent switches around realising you're not a Sitrus subseeding set. You can then play one of two games: Rest away as your opponent switches out, leaving you back at stage one having taken off a chunk of the opposing pokemon's HP, or attempt to Rest as your opponent finishes off Trevenant, giving you an opportunity to bring something in and set up.

There isn't any other pokemon that can pull a set off like this thanks to Trevanant's unique ability and typing combination. Give it a go.
 
Ah, I see! Thanks for the feedback!

In the case of a full-on stall build is the consensus that Curse is better than Leech Seed?
I wouldn't say so. Leech Seed + Will-o-Wisp are a difficult combination for opponents to deal with, and unlike Curse+Will-o-Wisp, you essentially have 2 moves buffering you against attacks rather than one. That, and its much harder to make use of Curse on a set without Sitrus- I can't really argue in favour of the move that chops off half your HP in exchange for an extra 1/8th of your opponents HP and a slightly greater chance of forcing a switch when your only means of recovery is Rest. The beauty of Curse + SitrusHarvest is that 50% of the time you recover 60% of your HP without even taking up your own time, it just happens, and even if you don't get that same turn Harvest you still get 30% back for free, which is still nearly 5 turns of lefties for no cost.
 
I can't advise Curse + Sub sets that don't at least run Situs Berry, which will activate right when you use Curse. It's far too likely your HP will get knocked below 25% and ruin your Sub chance. You have to already be behind a Sub that isn't broken, use Curse, and THEN Rest to recover HP against what is likely a faster opponent. Two moves that drain your health without passive health recovery is asking for too much. Protect is a much better option over Curse, preventing any possible damage and allowing free Curse damage. Sitrus and Horn Leech with Protect and WoW is probably the best way to maintain pressure and deal most damage without losing momentum. Rest would work better with just Sub and WoW to maintain the most longevity.
 
Has anyone done any testing with a Kee Berry or Maranga Berry set?

252 HP
252+ Def/SpD
Horn Leech
Leech Seed/Will-o-Wisp
Stone Edge
Protect/Substitute

I'de think SpookyTree could be a very potent wall that could force a few switches on mono attackers, while still being able to recover semi-reliably with its draining attacks.
 
Because Sub+Curse stalling is very viable with Harvest Sitrus berry, and I'm surprised you don't see any use in it. Curse isn't always easily usable, but when you can use it, it's very useful. For example, if you get a sub up, and you know a switch will be incoming (for example, anything that was trying to status you), you can fire off a curse, the opponent will switch in on the curse (and hopefully rocks and maybe spikes), and be taking hazard and curse damage, and the proceed to lose 25% each turn. So at the end of the turn they switched, you're between 50% to 75%, and they're at 75%, you can now just sub every turn, because while you're losing 25% health creating subs, you're also getting those citrus berry heals back, while they're stuck taking 25% each turn.

This leads at worst case scenario, getting really unlucky with harvest and getting 50% damage off and then having to switch and come back in a different time, or one of the two better and more likely scenarios, your opponent gets their pokemon killed by curse trying to kill you Trevenant (possible threat gone), or that you forced the switch, meaning your Trevenant will still be behind a sub, will still be at good health (thanks to harvest) and that the opponent has just racked up even more hazard damage.

Also to focus again on your point "Sitrus only fully heals the health lost by Curse if you already had Sitrus before using Curse", why would you be cursing with your Citrus berry? They come back so regularly, and if you don't have the citrus, you could be going the safer route of leach seeding.

Cursing isn't the sole strategy, but you can't always rely on leech seed/WoW, since those are blocked by either grass or fire types, where as curse isn't blocked, and will be doing a massive 1/4 after one move, instead of 1/8. If you ever have an opponent who finds out their current pokemon can't get past your leech seed + sub + harvest, they have to resort to switching while you have a sub up, and if they switch into a curse, they're either switching again (to something probably far less effective at taking you out) and taking hazard damage, or they're dying.

As the post above me said, with curse you're not just an annoying sub-seeder, you're a sub seeder that can actually do heavy amounts of damage to anything.

Hell, another scenario, set-up sweeper switches in on the turn you sub, since they can break your sub and KO you. On the turn they're in, you curse. IF they were smart, they decided to break your sub, and took 25% damage from curse, you then switch in to something to take that hit, they take another 25%. That's 50% damage, excluding hazards. If they were even smarter, they would break your sub, then switch to avoid taking another 25%, but if you have hazards up, this can mean the same amount of damage to them, and you forced a switch. If they're stupid, and try to set up, that allows you to sub stall them to death.

Having a ghost curse on something with reliable auto healing is amazingly useful.
You described a scenario where Trevenant got two free turns, one to get a Sub and another one as he forced a switch. Those scenarios almost never happen against competent players, so basing your reasoning about Curse being good on this doesn't help your argument. Assuming one free turn is fine, assuming two isn't. So, as the opponent brings in their answer to Trevenant, Trevenant goes for a Sub. Next turn, you use Curse and the opponent breaks the Sub. At the end of the turn you are naked against an opponent that can OHKO you, the opponent is at 75% health due to Curse and Trevenant is sitting somewhere between 50% and 75%, depending on if you gained a second Sitrus Berry after consuming the first one. What's so great about this? I would much rather cripple the foe permanently with WoW or help an ally switch in by using Leech Seed, or do both if the foe is already burned. When Leech Seed + WoW are some of the best crippling moves available and Trevenant gets them both, i just can't justify using a third crippling move that needs 50% of your life to activate. Spamming Leech Seed and WoW is just way more productive, and even if the 50% health loss is mitigated by Sitrus Berry (which doesn't always activate), you just don't find the time to use Curse because WoW and Leech Seed are both more spammable and usually more rewarding.

Oh and you say that WoW and Leech Seed can't always be relied on, which is wrong. If the opponent has a Fire-type use Leech Seed, if not use WoW, simple as that.
 
I've been using Trevenant lately, and it's been a real asset to my team.

Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Sdef / 4 Atk
Careful Nature

- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Horn Leech
- Substitute



With this set, it can beat Terrakion, Exacadrill, Starmie, Scizor, Aegislash , Garchomp , Venasaur , Donphan , Keldeo and Latias and a few others with the leech seed/wisp/horn leech combo.

When it's under a sub, rotom-w and water type status users can't dream of touching it(and I've been seeing rotom on every single team lately).

Trevenant is a real addition to any Sun team even with the weather nerf. This guy is really useful with this set
 
You described a scenario where Trevenant got two free turns, one to get a Sub and another one as he forced a switch. Those scenarios almost never happen against competent players, so basing your reasoning about Curse being good on this doesn't help your argument. Assuming one free turn is fine, assuming two isn't. So, as the opponent brings in their answer to Trevenant, Trevenant goes for a Sub. Next turn, you use Curse and the opponent breaks the Sub. At the end of the turn you are naked against an opponent that can OHKO you, the opponent is at 75% health due to Curse and Trevenant is sitting somewhere between 50% and 75%, depending on if you gained a second Sitrus Berry after consuming the first one. What's so great about this? I would much rather cripple the foe permanently with WoW or help an ally switch in by using Leech Seed, or do both if the foe is already burned. When Leech Seed + WoW are some of the best crippling moves available and Trevenant gets them both, i just can't justify using a third crippling move that needs 50% of your life to activate. Spamming Leech Seed and WoW is just way more productive, and even if the 50% health loss is mitigated by Sitrus Berry (which doesn't always activate), you just don't find the time to use Curse because WoW and Leech Seed are both more spammable and usually more rewarding.

Oh and you say that WoW and Leech Seed can't always be relied on, which is wrong. If the opponent has a Fire-type use Leech Seed, if not use WoW, simple as that.

Together they can be relied on, but separately, they cannot, that was the point, you need both of them to match the damage, and if something is immune to either one, you're weaker. WoW doesn't really "cripple" special attackers either.

Secondly, the whole Trevenant stall set comes down to just that, stalling, and often gets to the point you can sub stall them, which is when they decide to switch, leaving the possiblity to have a sub up when cursing easily possible. Hell, if the opponent finds out it can't break your sub, there is your situation right there.

Thirdly, even if the opponent never puts themselves in that situation, the scenario you laid out is that the opponent is on 75% health, and so are you... You know you can just switch? You go into something that can take hits, and he takes 25% for just staying in, that leaves him at 50%, and for the hell of it lets say you switch into a rocky helmet Ferrothorn, he's now down to what, 20% HP? That's excluding any entry damage in the first place. Regardless of the scenario, the fact is he'll be at 50% at least (most likely lower, because if you're using this Trevenant, you'll be abusing hazards), and won't really want to stay in to take even more damage, which forces a switch, meaning they take even more hazard damage. Leech Seed and WoW are more spammable in terms of cost to use, but they are also blocked easily. Against other stall teams, if you don't have curse, you won't be able to do much, since aromatherapy can cure those burns and leech seed damage is negligible on it's own, while curse damage is not.

Hell, if you're using toxic spike support, will-o-wisp will be limited in its use right there, any team with Gliscor isn't going to care about your Trevenant without curse, curse can't be blocked by protect, magic coat users or substitute, meaning you can also effectively counter other Trevenants with it, use it on anything trying to wish + protect or just protect scouting if the first place, and get past magic coat users.

If you can't justify it's use for your particular team, that is fine, if you'd prefer another move over it, fine, but to talk about curse as if it's a vastly inferior option, that it can not be justified to be put on any set, well, that I will massively disagree with.
 
For a Trevenant built to stall, I would say Curse is the vastly inferior option given the other choices he has access to with less cost to himself, thus not compromising his bulk or longevity.

However, for a Trevenant built to force switches and break walls (and baton pass chains) Curse is the vastly superior option over Will-o-Wisp due to the pressure it puts on the opponent to switch out and the ease at which Trevenant can reapply the status effect onto new, incoming pokemon without losing its own pace due to its utterly fantastic passive recovery.

Leech Seed + Will-o-Wisp vs Curse isn't a question of which one is better for the same role, but which role you want your tree to specialize in.
 
Hell, if you're using toxic spike support, will-o-wisp will be limited in its use right there, any team with Gliscor isn't going to care about your Trevenant without curse, curse can't be blocked by protect, magic coat users or substitute, meaning you can also effectively counter other Trevenants with it, use it on anything trying to wish + protect or just protect scouting if the first place, and get past magic coat users.
Likely scenarios in said Trevenant ditto-

Trevenant 1 uses Curse

Trevenant 2 uses Shadow Claw

Trevenant 1 is now dead

or

Trevenant 1 uses Curse

Trevenant 2 uses Will-o-Wisp

Trevenant 1 is now going to have an absolutely horrible time doing what it wants to do, Trevenant 2 can switch out having lost only 25%

And this assumes you win the speed tie in both cases.

For what its worth, I think any Trevenant worth its salt runs a ghost move, since it actually has an Attack stat, and Ghost is the best offensive type this gen, and he doesn't wasnt to be total Taunt bait, and he needs something to hit Gengar on a switch in...etc etc
 
Shadow Claw is a more reliable counter to Magic Bounce users. Espeon has a 50% chance of being OHKO'd while Shadow Ball is a 3HKO back. Xatu (if that's still even a thing) gets 2HKO'd before it can 2HKO back with Heat Wave. MAbsol is the only one that's not threatened, but it has to MEvo first so it can get WoW'd on the switch, which arguably cripples it more than Curse. And keep in mind any 2HKO is really a potential 3HKO against Sitrus Trev if Harvest activates.
 
I'm running this set and it's so good.

Trevanant Lum Berry
Harvest / Careful
252 HP / 140 Def / 116 Spe
Will-O-Wisp
Rest
Shadow Claw
Wood Hammer

This is very similar to the ChestRest set but better! Using a Lum Berry instead of a Chesto Berry means there are less fucks to give about status, not forcing you to rest all the time. Wood Hammer is for obvious power, Shadow Claw for those other ghosts, and Wisp is to spread his love all around town. He works amazingly well with Tyranitar, especially with Wisp being everywhere. This out-stalls Blissey (even if she carries flamethrower), gives no shits about gilscor, etc. I'm telling you, this is the set you are all missing out on. Trevanant is a monster.
The reason why we decided this set is slightly subpar is that it doesn't let you live the 2HKO on Starmie's Ice Beam, and some other calcs which I forgot. That's why a lot of people run Sitrus Berry, allowing you to live the Ice Beam, strike back to kill, and then start from there. This set was also posted a couple of pages back, so please try and read through the posts to make sure we're not beating dead Ponyta's. :)
 
Trevenant.png

Korpiklaani (Trevenant) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 80 SDef / 252 HP / 176 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Wood Hammer
- Shadow Claw
- Trick Room
- Rest

I'm running this set on my TR team and he works pretty well. He is bulky enough to set up Trick Room, he can deal some really good damage and Lum Berry + Resto powered up by Harvest is heavenly. The only thing I don't know much is which EVs should I use.

EDIT: Yes he was named after the folk metal band called Korpiklaani, like the other members of the team called Manowar, Iron Maiden, Dream Theater, Cannibal Corpse and so on.
 
The reason why we decided this set is slightly subpar is that it doesn't let you live the 2HKO on Starmie's Ice Beam, and some other calcs which I forgot. That's why a lot of people run Sitrus Berry, allowing you to live the Ice Beam, strike back to kill, and then start from there. This set was also posted a couple of pages back, so please try and read through the posts to make sure we're not beating dead Ponyta's. :)

yea i realized that after i posted it too, i haven't actually faced a starmie yet so this hasn't affected me but starmie can't beat it one on one and here are the calcs just to show things

252 Starmie Ice Beam vs 252/0+ Trevenant: 47-55.6%
252 Choice Specs Starmie Ice Beam vs 252/0+ Trevenant: 70-82.6%
252+ Choice Specs Starmie Ice Beam vs 252/0+ Trevenant: 77.5-91.4%
0 Trevenant Wood Hammer vs 6/0 Starmie: 122.6-145.5%
0 Trevenant Wood Hammer vs 248/0 Starmie: 99-117.6%

It only 2HKOs trev, trev can't switch into ice beam but my team also carries tyranitar so ttar can take on starmie as well and clearly starmie isn't beatin trev 1-on-1.
 
No. Trevenant wouldn't outspeed anything with +252 Spe, but it would outspeed A LOT with -0 Trick Room.
The best set I'm saying IMO is Curse/Rest/Leech Seed/Substitute with Natural Cure, especially with the new mechanics of Rest
Second best set is Harvest Lum Berry Rest or Harvest Sitrus Berry Sub
Then comes the uncommon Thief + Frisk which people should use more.
 
True I guess. I thought a jolly set could be interesting... despite that its worth a try. I'm aiming for a defensive set. I can see him outspeeding some pokes. But not much with it
 
Likely scenarios in said Trevenant ditto-

Trevenant 1 uses Curse

Trevenant 2 uses Shadow Claw

Trevenant 1 is now dead

or

Trevenant 1 uses Curse

Trevenant 2 uses Will-o-Wisp

Trevenant 1 is now going to have an absolutely horrible time doing what it wants to do, Trevenant 2 can switch out having lost only 25%

And this assumes you win the speed tie in both cases.

For what its worth, I think any Trevenant worth its salt runs a ghost move, since it actually has an Attack stat, and Ghost is the best offensive type this gen, and he doesn't wasnt to be total Taunt bait, and he needs something to hit Gengar on a switch in...etc etc

Why on earth would you ever curse first before Substituting.................................

if you are not in danger of getting OHKO'd,you are guaranteed to get a substitute up provided you move last. From there you can protect to get the sitrus regen and (Majority of the time) get back to over 50% life and sometimes back to 70 ish, which is enough to use curse.

from there it's as simple as protect -> Sub mashing/Phantom Force(if your sub is still up or you're not taking more than 50% damage and have the health) -> Protect again to get sitrus regen if needed and stall till curse kills. if you are in danger of getting KO'd by some super powerful super effective move and your sub is already down and you didn't spam it again to annoy them, You protect for curse to take the 1/4 and then YOU SWITCH OUT. People are starting to carry taunt users in the higher ratings, making Curse Stall alot more viable and useful compared to sub seed with WoW because you can actually stall for 2 turns with PF if they switch a taunter in on you. Sub/Seed/WoW is too predictable, easily dealt with, and hardly ever sets up the situation where you can bring in CB Scizor/Talon flame and clean up the match late game.

as someone who has been using trevenant both in game and on simulator in practically every team, Curse/Protect/Substitute/Phantom Force is the superior set
 
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If you want to keep Trevenant which happens not that much, or where there's no better pokemon to switch into, which happens a lot. So staying in with Rest would be sometimes done, that's why 2 turns instead of 3 is really good.
 
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