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Pokémon Delphox

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Since Fire/Psychic gems aren't out yet and Pokemon Showdown doesn't allow me to try out a set with either of those, I'm working with this magician set:

Delphox @ Air Balloon
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Timid nature
Psychic
Flamethrower/Fireblast
Grass Knot
Calm Mind

Also Heat Rock is not a consumable item, is it?
 
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Sir Heru said:
Since Fire/Psychic gems aren't out yet and Pokemon Showdown doesn't allow me to try out a set with either of those, I'm working with this magician set:

Delphox @ Air Balloon
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Timid nature
Psychic
Flamethrower/Fireblast
Grass Knot
Calm Mind

Also Heat Rock is not a consumable item, is it?
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The issue with this is it demands that Delphox take a hit before it can switch around items, something it would rather not do considering how relatively frail it is due to its typing.

Personally, I think any set attempting to use Magician is a gimmick at best. Yes, taking items away from Pokemon that rely on them can screw over your opponent, but I don't understand why Delphox would ever want to sacrifice it's own item in order to do it when it can just Switcheroo away a pair of Choice Specs or something. At least Switcheroo gives Delphox a bit of control over what item she gains in return and when she wants to gain it, and dumping an item on a Pokemon that doesn't want it is more of a hindrance to them than simply taking their item and leaving them with nothing. Besides, Blaze isn't a bad ability by any means, as it allows Delphox to toss around at least one more powerful Fire Blast before she get's KO'd (assuming your opponent doesn't simply take her out with priority, which let's be honest, they probably will).
 
Sir Heru said:
Since Fire/Psychic gems aren't out yet and Pokemon Showdown doesn't allow me to try out a set with either of those, I'm working with this magician set:

Delphox @ Air Balloon
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Timid nature
Psychic
Flamethrower/Fireblast
Grass Knot
Calm Mind

Also Heat Rock is not a consumable item, is it?
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How about Psyshock instead of Psychic?
 
kakuna02 said:
How about Psyshock instead of Psychic?
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I might consider Psyshock, how does it benefit over Psychic, except for it attacking the physical defence stat? I'm fairly new to Competetive, played a bit Showdown in Gen 5 and really just started in Gen 6
 
Sir Heru said:
I might consider Psyshock, how does it benefit over Psychic, except for it attacking the physical defence stat? I'm fairly new to Competetive, played a bit Showdown in Gen 5 and really just started in Gen 6
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When you send out Delphox, people will probably be expecting Special Damage, and switch to a special wall.

Choice Scarf Set
Ability: Blaze
Nature: Modest
Evs: 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf
Moveset:
Fire Blast
Shadow Ball / Grass Knot
Psyshock
Hidden Power Ground
 
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Psychic and Psyshock is generally based on personal preference, secondary STAB, and what threats you expect to see (most Psychics in B/W OU ran Psyshock to OHKO Terrakion in the sand and Tentacruel, whereas UU Psychics might need the extra power). They both have their merits: Psychic has higher BP and the chance to decrease SpD to screw over a would-be check, while Psyshock as mentioned can beat special walls especially when Gen 6 introduced so many Pokemon with ridiculous SpD stats (Goodra, Florges, Dragalge). However, generally you would want Psyshock on Delphox because it has dual STAB and still has the means to hit very hard on the special defense side with Flamethrower/Fire Blast.
 
Delphox already has viable speed and the two-hit sorta bulk when up against Greninja's Hydro Pump. (Perhaps EV trained, although mine wasn't and could withstand a hydropump; Meta-game) However, It can get a crippling move in with Choice specs, I would think. At least somewhere along those lines.
 
Delphi said:
Delphox already has viable speed and the two-hit sorta bulk when up against Greninja's Hydro Pump. (Perhaps EV trained, although mine wasn't and could withstand a hydropump; Meta-game) However, It can get a crippling move in with Choice specs, I would think. At least somewhere along those lines.
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In-game experiences mean jack in competitive play. Timid 252 SpA Greninja always OHKOs Delphox without even Life Orb or rocks. 168 SpA Greninja has an 87.5% chance of OHKOing. Surf is always an OHKO after rocks with just 168 SpA. Both of these calcs are without LO, Expert Belt, or any other item that can raise its power. Both of these are without any HP investment on Delphox's part, but what can it feasibly do back to Greninja? It's faster and stronger and Switcheroo specs is only a minor setback. Those defenses are only good if you actually invest in them, in most cases you will not.

Off-topic, but that's a pretty sweet gif you got in your signature.
 
kakuna02 said:
I don't understand Delphox in RU.
Typhlosion is in RU!!!!!!!!!!!
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kakuna02 said:
The real question is: Choice specs or Choice scarf?
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kakuna02 said:
I would go with Fire over Psychic gem.
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First of all, don't multipost. Use the edit button.

Delphox would be useful in RU. Psychic STAB is more valuable than you think in lower tiers, and while it doesn't have Typhlosion's kind of power, it has a bit more durability and another STAB option. UU and OU are unfriendly to it, though, because of Aegislash, Tyranitar, Greninja, Talonflame, Houndoom, Chandelure, etc., but in RU it doesn't have that many bad things to it. Plus Magician, Switcheroo, Will-O-Wisp, etc. can screw around with your opponent.

If you want to use Choice in lower tiers, you probably want to use Specs. Scarf is highly unnecessary in lower tiers, especially RU. If for some reason you want to use it in a higher tier with Choice, well, just don't.

None of the Gems are released currently anyways.
 
I feel like Delphox's Staple set will wind up being a SubCM set seeing as most Pokemon with a similar stat spread (Raikou) usually run this type of set, and it works well in conjunction with Blaze and Mystical Fire.

Substitute + Calm Mind

Delphox @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252SpA / 4SpD / 252Spe
Timid Nature
Substitute
Calm Mind
Flamethrower / Mystical Fire
Psyshock / Shadow Ball / Grass Knot

Substitute allows Delphox to absorb status ailments so that he can further continue sweeping and will help you trigger Blaze when you really need. Flamethrower is the standard STAB move of choice, however, Mystical fire works well together with Substitute and Calm Mind, further crippling special attackers with an 100% chance to drop their SpA stat one stage. The problem with Mystical Fire is that its way too weak to be considered usable and Delphox isn't the most bulky pokemon around. Psyshock is the preffered secondary move as it gets around special walls that would otherwise cause it problems, has decent coverage with flamethrower and is boosted by STAB. Shadow ball is also a good option as it deals good damage and gives Delphox better coverage. Grass knot is good for dealing with bulky water types, but its damage output isn't always reliable due to its reliance on opposing Pokemon's weight. You can also opt to have an EV spread of 16HP / 252SpA / 240Spe if you don't mind being out sped by another Delphox and want just enough Spe EVs to out speed Garchomp, however, you might not want to use Grass Knot with that spread, as other Delphoxes would wall you.
 
For all you users drooling over Magician:

Delphox @ Salac Berry
Ability: Magician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Psyshock

An uninspired set, but that doesn't make it any less effective. A SubCM user that gains both a Speed boost + whatever item it manages to steal? Usually that item is Leftovers, as setup Delphox is pitted most against walls. Stealing Life Orb on accident / a predicted switch is pretty bad, but that would usually be found on offensive Pokemon who won't like Delphox's attacks, so ta-da Delphox killed something and now has a LO boost to go alongside its boosts (for 2 turns)! You could also KO the wall be4 Salac activation, time your Substitute just right to outspeed a faster opponent via Salac, and nab their item while KOing them (probably with your Sub intact!). If you managed to grab something like Choice Specs (which will only lock you in for the next attack you use) then prepare to get stopped cold / utterly wreck shit, so be wary / ready to sweep. On the other hand, Blaze is a perfectly fine alternative if you don't want to deal with the whole item stealing business, but SubCM Magician is still unique to Delphox, so it's worth a look at.
 
Personally, Delphox doesn't seem that great. I'm a fan of sweeping with a fire type, and psychic added on makes it better still for sweeping (as opposed to fighting, since I usually use my starter) and Delphox has decent/good Speed and Spec Atk stats. Buuut... it's movepool is too predictable and monotone, and it's stats in general just aren't high enough to really do well. Fennekin was my X starter, but I never use it, simply because, frankly, it's just not very good. It doesn't even do well in offline play, so I'm not exactly excited about competitive with this thing.
 
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Punchshroom said:
For all you users drooling over Magician:

Delphox @ Salac Berry
Ability: Magician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Psyshock

An uninspired set, but that doesn't make it any less effective. A SubCM user that gains both a Speed boost + whatever item it manages to steal? Usually that item is Leftovers, as setup Delphox is pitted most against walls. Stealing Life Orb on accident / a predicted switch is pretty bad, but that would usually be found on offensive Pokemon who won't like Delphox's attacks, so ta-da Delphox killed something and now has a LO boost to go alongside its boosts (for 2 turns)! You could also KO the wall be4 Salac activation, time your Substitute just right to outspeed a faster opponent via Salac, and nab their item while KOing them (probably with your Sub intact!). If you managed to grab something like Choice Specs (which will only lock you in for the next attack you use) then prepare to get stopped cold / utterly wreck shit, so be wary / ready to sweep. On the other hand, Blaze is a perfectly fine alternative if you don't want to deal with the whole item stealing business, but SubCM Magician is still unique to Delphox, so it's worth a look at.
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Why not Mystical Fire? Then it could be an annoyer.
 
I'm trying to use now the best traits Delphox can offer: good speed/special attack and a fast Will-o-Wisp, so right now i'm testing this:

Delphox@Custap Berry/Sitrus Berry
252 SpA/252 Spe/ 4 HP
Timid
Magician

-Will-o-Wisp
-Calm Mind
-Fire Blast
-Psyshock

Damn, Magician is hard to use, but this is maybe the best i can think of. I just love Will-o-Wisp coming from fast things, especially ones that the opponent won't expect. Calm Mind to make it stronger, and then the STAB moves to hit things hard. Custap Berry with a couple boosts is very good (and can burn something in a pinch if absolutely necessary), netting an unexpected kill many times, with Magician stealing someone's item (hopefully) next turn. Sitrus lets you stay healthy, also letting Delphox to steal an item and with it's decent speed and maybe a couple of boosts to go for a sweep. Maybe.

Of course, if you go with Custap, you can also use Blaze as the ability, since it will be in the range, and the possibility of launching a 165BP STAB priority move is always scary, even if only once. Well, it will still have the power after that, just not the priority.
 
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Marisa (Delphox) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Psychic

Having a fast Wisper that can also throw out respectably powerful Flamethrowers is really handy, and Substitute trolls a lot of the status users - most of them get outsped.
I use Blaze because since I'm holding Leftovers, Magician doesn't exactly do much, where Blaze will at least let me punch things in the face if I get low on HP. Now that people are running Knock Off, though, I'm sorely tempted to run Magician again... at the same time, though, I'm kinda tired of stealing stuff like Toxic Orbs and Life Orbs (fun fact: on the turn that you steal a Life Orb, you take Life Orb recoil without having gotten the power boost).
 
Delphox may not be the best for Power Herb + Solarbeam, but what about it's prevo, Braxien, in NU? It could steal some much needed Eviolites and give itself one in the process!
 
leafbarrett said:
Marisa (Delphox) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Psychic

Having a fast Wisper that can also throw out respectably powerful Flamethrowers is really handy, and Substitute trolls a lot of the status users - most of them get outsped.
I use Blaze because since I'm holding Leftovers, Magician doesn't exactly do much, where Blaze will at least let me punch things in the face if I get low on HP. Now that people are running Knock Off, though, I'm sorely tempted to run Magician again... at the same time, though, I'm kinda tired of stealing stuff like Toxic Orbs and Life Orbs (fun fact: on the turn that you steal a Life Orb, you take Life Orb recoil without having gotten the power boost).
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Psyshock > Psychic on all of Delphox's sets. I don't really understand the point in going with leftovers besides more time to survive with toxic spikes.
 
Mettie7 said:
Delphox may not be the best for Power Herb + Solarbeam, but what about it's prevo, Braxien, in NU? It could steal some much needed Eviolites and give itself one in the process!
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Eviolites running around in NU: Misdreavus, Wartortle

Braixen is just bad. Even if you do steal an item it's not worth running. Just run Knock Off Skuntank if you want to get rid of items down there.
 
Vixen (Delphox) F @Wide Lens
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SP ATK / 4 DEF / 252 Spd
Nature: Timid
-Fire Blast
-Psyshock
-Hypnosis
-Calm Mind

This set works very nicely for me. Thanks to Wide Lens, moves like Fire Blast become a lot more reliable to a point it has rarely ever misses. Also Hypnosis becomes a little more reliable too. Simply Hypnosis + Calm Mind, then start sweeping. This set gives Delphox some unpredictability, since most won't see a Hypnosis coming. This set also helps when your opponent tries to trap it with a counter with Pursuit. I lost count how many times I put Tyranitar to sleep then switched out. Of course, the success of this set comes from Hypnosis hitting and also not relying on it too much, which is something I have had a lot of luck with.

Overall, Delphox is a nice reliable special fire sweeper. Downside, her movepool is lackluster and if the next gen of tutor options is the same as BW2, its not going to get any better than it already is. The biggest crime for Delphox is how crappy Nintendo/Game Freak builts its Magican mechanic saddly. Her speed and Sp atk is great and decent special Def. So I'd say at best it has a shot at being UU.
 
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is there any point in trying to run a defensive spread WoWer or is that always going to be outclassed by gardevior/mew?
 
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