re: Shedinja. Is it not the case that the generic trainers' Pokemon just use the last 4 moves they learnt by level-up? This was the case in BW2 at least. The difference between running a Shedinja decently is just the difference between a player who knows the opposition's sets and one who doesn't. It's kinda how it's dangerous to lead with Honedge when the trainer could be leading with a Pursuit mon (there are at least two of these from experience, likely more) or trying to kill something with Kadabra without being unaware that it has Sucker Punch. If you know these pitfalls, you are able to avoid them.
That said, here's a list of major Pokemon Shedinja blocks completely (just gyms and elites):
Mienfoo, Hawlucha, Gogoat, Magneton, Heliolisk, Mr. Mime, Sylveon, Klefki, Dragalge, Druddigon, Altaria, Gyarados, Starmie, Hawlucha, Aurorus.
So while Shedinja doesn't solo specific trainers like he could in RSE, I'd say being able to block some specific threats is better than not having any potential at all. And this complete blocking is more than what some Pokemon could claim.
... Except having a slot dedicated to a HM Slave helps promote efficiency, because it means there is one less Pokémon that you have to worry about leveling up (and to an extent, not having to use up a moveslot on one of your mains for something like Cut), resulting in less grinding needed to get a team onto par with the opposition, which means your Pokémon can be of a higher level, which means you can complete the game in less time... You just need something with Fly & the other HM or Rock Smash (Hawlucha comes to mind here), & you have your ideal 4 Pokémon team for leveling & attacking, which is generally considered a benchmark for most of these tier lists, if I recall correctly. Also, HM Slaves can be great death fodder if you need it. If we are only going on battle merits, then we might as well throw Farfetch'd back to E-Tier or something. Reserve two slots for Bibarel & Hawlucha for HM Slaving, & you are pretty much set... Although you may need a temporary Rock Smasher if you want Aerodactyl... Okay enough slippery-sloping, but the point is that HM Slaves help promote efficiency in an efficiency run.
So HM slaves that you do not train (you still have to train Bidoof to evolve it into a Bibarel though) give the main team more experience, resulting in a faster clear and better movepools and all that. The same is achieved even better by lowmonning with 2-3 Pokemon, yet we don't go that far.
Anything could be death fodder, too. Cut/Strength access is nothing unique and the likelihood of training a water-type is quite high. Rock Smash can be conveniently forgotten whenever it is not needed due to it being a TM, too.
HM slaving and being death fodder without any fighting at all is a dubious kind of utility, it seems.
Has anybody carefully counted when HMs/Rock Smash are even needed to advance the story? I'm only aware of Surf and Waterfall and the slave for that is given to you for free (Lapras has no trouble getting to Ice Beam before Ramos btw; idk how Colonel M couldn't get it 2 levels until the gym).
Right now I'm playing with a team of six mons, three of them in the Slow exp group, no Exp Share/Lucky Egg/grinding on wilds, and my team often finds itself at a -8 level disadvantage in battles. Many of the strats that rely on outspeeding and OHKOing extrapolate differently with a different team size and exp group.
Also can we cut down on the "X is better than Y, therefore, X should be ranked higher than Y" logic. If the two Pokémon being compared are going to be in the same tier in the end—which can happen with only a defined number of tiers—then they will. No ands, ifs, or buts about it. If they are decisively better, then maybe they deserve to be ranked higher, but otherwise, it is not that great logically, & I am certainly not going to be splitting this into 200+ tiers. By the same contrast, just because something is bad in battle, does not mean it should be ranked really low, especially with HM Slaves being useful for promoting efficiency (Having HM Slaves in the party is far superior to having HM Slaves in the PC). Finally, just because something is ranked highly in one tier list, does not mean it should be ranked highly in another tier list, & likewise on the other end of the spectrum; A Pokémon's tiering in another game means jack shit in this thread, so try to refrain from bringing up those arguments.
It is indeed the case that some Pokemon are being argued as being superior enough to others to warrant a whole tier difference.
Everything in the tier list is relative to other things in the tier list, because the letters S, A, B and so on don't really mean anything on their own. Even with being shorthand for High/Mid and the qualities they entail, what we consider to be Mid tier performance is only drawn from what we consider to be High tier performance on the same list.
What seems to be a more likely possibility to me right now is that tiers will be merged (some of the current tiers that is).
Starly in DPPt evolved to get a very high attack stat, Intimidate, access to powerful normal, flying and fighting type moves. The same qualities it happens to possess in these two games (where you also get a more powerful Thief and U-Turn fwiw). That's what is implied when bringing up gen 4 Starly.
