Kangaskhanite Tiering Discussion [+Demographics Poll Added to OP]

[PenguinKnight]

I do think that after this and Lucario's suspect, Megas will be completely safe from the ban hammer (Maybe Mega Pinsir, but that's to me, one that should NOT go). I would also like to see a nerf to Parental Bond next gen (With it having a locking system or having the other hit do LESS damage).

Making the first hit do 50% as much damage would help. This way the two halves add up to become a whole, with the ability to break through focus sashes still intact. However, 200 damage seismic tosses will still exist.

Megas like Xzard, Yzard, MManectric etc all have fun niches, yet aren't overpowered, and probably will be useful in OU at least, so I'm glad they aren't as overpowered as Mkhan.

 

[silfan]

I haven't played in Pokebank much.. So I'm mostly speculating here, but I expect Stealth Rocks to be less of a threat after Defog is released far and wide. Many people use Charizard as a lead, and Pinsir only takes x2 damage from stealth rocks on its first switch out. Lucario has substandard defenses but I'm not really sure if it fits in the glass cannon category like Weavile, Gengar, Alakazam, etc. It generally can take one attack, which is enough to get a Swords Dance or Nasty Plot in.

Stealth Rock is plenty relevant still.
It just takes one turn to set up SR and if the enemy waste a turn to defog, surely you can find another opportunity to SR again.
Most people don't really run suicide SR setter, so setting SR multiple times is not a problem.

 

[Orga777]

Stealth Rock is plenty relevant still.
It just takes one turn to set up SR and if the enemy waste a turn to defog, surely you can find another opportunity to SR again.
Most people don't really run suicide SR setter, so setting SR multiple times is not a problem.

Not only that, but I still think Rapid Spinners are STILL going to be used more than Defog. The best Defoggers right now are Mandibuzz and Crobat, while Rapid Spinners have Excadrill, Starmie, Donphan, and Forretress just to name a few. All of which are threats all o their own, some of which can set up their own Rocks. I don't know how much this changes when Poke-Bank opens, though. I know that most of the pokes that learn Defog in general are not really the best, though.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

I don`t mean to sound like an ass, but aren't you just proving my point? 2HKO/3HKO on a rocky helmet Garchomp.... maybe I am crazy, but with even the weakest Earthquake(0 atk) you are doing atleast 30%+ correct? I was under the impression that one hit from the Momma does 25% recoil damage, then another from the daughter does another 25%. That is 50% HP on one attack, meaning the next one, Kang is guaranteed to die, ESPECIALLY after an earthquake.

Am I missing something? Isn`t that what a check/counter is? To force something out, or destroy it?

Other people have replied already, but I want to clarify something.

You said Garchomp would switch in on Kangaskhan, use Earthquake and then... eat a Power-Up Punch. That's absurd. Kangaskhan wouldn't use PuP, they would either do 66%+ with Return, or finish you off with Sucker Punch. You may take down Kangaskhan with you, yes, but only if you didn't switch in on Earthquake. In fact,

252+ Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 183-216 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 183-216 (51.2 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You may not even take recoil damage if Garchomp's unlucky enough to switch in on a Earthquake. And would you look at that, if Kangaskhan is at full HP and uses Sucker Punch to finish you off, you will end up losing your Garchomp while she'll be left alive with 3 HP.

You just lost your counter/check to the pokémon you were meant to stop. Out of four possible scenarios (Return->SP, Earthquake->Return, Earthquake->Earthquake, SP->whatever), you lose your counter in three of them and bring down the target in three, two if the target were at full HP. I don't think that's what a counter/check should do, specially when it's Garchomp. Hell, you just had to keep your Garchomp at full HP for the whole match, only to waste it to stop a single pokémon that may still survive your bullshit.

 

[Orga777]

You just lost your counter/check to the pokémon you were meant to stop. Out of four possible scenarios (Return->SP, Earthquake->Return, Earthquake->Earthquake, SP->whatever), you lose your counter in three of them and bring down the target in three, two if the target were at full HP. I don't think that's what a counter/check should do, specially when it's Garchomp. Hell, you just had to keep your Garchomp at full HP for the whole match, only to waste it to stop a single pokémon that may still survive your bullshit.

Yup. I can't believe that people aren't even realizing this crucial detail. You have to WASTE Garchomp completely... to stop one pokemon... That is completely insane. Not only do you have to waste your perfectly good Garchomp to stop a single pokemon, but you have to put an item like Rockey Helmet on it which does nothing but hinder Garchomp's effectiveness against every single thing not named Mega Kangaskhan. Why would people even do this and think it is okay?

 

[MasterRyuga]

there is one set everyone uses and thats the

-fake out
-power up punch
-return
-sucker punch/fire punch/earthquake

probably more stuff but this is what i always see 99% of the time its bad enough that this things stats are very good having
10512510060100100

very good poke no joke at all not only in stats but in what it can do in battle too. im sure there will be someone who will argue that its not uber because yes you can burn it but that can be avoided with simple measures then some will say ferrothorn with rocky helmet is a counter when its not at all khan can have the support to destroy many teams easily

252 Atk Mega Kangaskhan Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 192-228 (54.5 - 64.7%) --
guaranteed 2HKO yes you take damage for rocky helmet and its ability but =it has no recovery at all besides leech seed and rest. to dedicate ferrothorn to hurting mega khan speaks for it self but after power up punch its different.

+2 252 Atk Mega Kangaskhan Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 380-448 (107.9 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

its return is serious at plus 2 im not going to do a barrage of calcs but im going to say mega khan at plus 2 2hko or ohko everything that doesnt resist even with no boosts its very strong almost like mega gengar this does pretty much the same thing and we know how that went i dont believe its as strong as gengar doesnt need a boost to wreck havoc but with scrappy fake out and power up punch everything that is slower will get hit hard and at plus 2 potentially ohko if its not bulky from the start

btw i didnt calc with parental bond so yeah its power is serious

 

[Cheatingtaco]

Think about it this way- you're basically adding two pokemon to your team. Except they both attack at the same time. This means that you have yourself an incredibly effective pokemon, as all your attacks have 150% damage. After STAB multipliers (which I gather applies to both attacks) the attack is modified by 250%. Return at 255 Base Power. Basically we have selfdestruct without the suicide. Base 150 Earthquakes- It becomes as powerful as Boomburst, the most powerful move of this gen. In case you're not catching on, Kanga has as much power as a legendary.

 

[WastedSkyPirate]

Completely agree with Alphonse. Mega-Kangaskhan should be banned.

As soon as it comes out, you scramble around to pick which unlucky Poke you sacrifice to -maybe- check it. 99% of the time you will know 3/4 of it's moves and still can't do anything to stop it...

 

[nyczxjay]

there is one set everyone uses and thats the

-fake out
-power up punch
-return
-sucker punch/fire punch/earthquake

probably more stuff but this is what i always see 99% of the time its bad enough that this things stats are very good having
10512510060100100

I rarely see Kang with Fake Out at the top of the ladder because the "good" players realize how pointless it is. You're better off using Crunch/Fire Punch in that slot so you don't have to worry about fat ghosts after you digivolve. I typically see more Fake Out Kangs when I start a new alt to test stuff out and in the mid-ladder.

But yes I do agree; this thing has to go away. Let's be honest here, this thing will end up being banned even with a suspect test so let's just quick-ban it now.

 

[Farpafraf]

Uber for sure.
Mkhan is just too strong for OU:Excellent 105/100/100 bulk and125Att with parental bond is insane condering that with power up punch he can boost while not giving a flying f*ck about taunt and inflicting damage at the same time,return is a 104 power STAB with no drawbacks and earthquake, he has also access to a priority attack in the form of sucker punch.The only way to deal with him is an ALREADY evolved MLucario or sabayle to burn him(but you'll have to sacrifice a pokémon:CRUNCH) and if he comes packed with aegilslash and florges then good luck my friend...
EDIT:Uh I forgot that he also has a base speed of 100(I would try to kill him with my sashed pkmns:too bad he breaks sashes and substitutes)..

 

[Aasgier]

Why the hell are we talking about something that is more broken than Arceus for the devil's sake?
More than that does not have to be said. This thing belongs in the Uber-tier, not a contest.

 

[X5Dragon]

PuP, Sucker Pwnch and a Normal move (mainly Return) seem to be the most common mainstays of any MKanga set. The last slot is something you choose after looking at your team and deciding which pokemon you hate facing the most. Normal + Ground already is a two type combo that is only resisted by a handful of pokemon, add to that a Dark move which share none of the two's weaknesses/resists and you got a perfect coverage machine.

I want to see what the pro-OU/anti-ban side has to say, describing Kanga's strengths is very straight forward after all.

 

[Subpar]

Please don't ban another mega stone. I can understand why Gengarite had to go (I disagree with the decision to ban it, but I at least can see why you would), but this isn't really all THAT broken. People who are saying that he is uncounterable must be running hyper offense or something because I've never had a true problem with Kangaskhan before. He's hella vulnerable to status, not too hard to revenge kill, and as long as you carry a phazer Power-Up punch doesn't bother you too much really either. Have a defensive core and you'll be fine. I turn to Skarmory or Mandibuzz to deal with Kangaskhan, and they handle him relatively well. Skarmory sets up Spikes in his face, and Mandibuzz stalls him out with Toxic/Roost. Both of them can carry Whirlwind to remove him if he gets greedy and tries to boost. I want an inclusive metagame that involves all aspects of the game, and if we keep this up mega stones are gonna fall like dominoes. Blazikenite got banned, Gengarite is the next-most broken. Gone. Now it is Kangaskhanite. Once that is gone, there will be another newly "most-broken" mega stone.

Not an expert but it's not all that difficult to even get +2 on him. Once he gets +2, almost nothing gets to switch into Return, survive it and proceed to KO him or whittle him down. Teams are almost forced to carry a counter and even one isn't enough sometimes because after all, there are 6 Pokemon and if someone really wants MKang to sweep, that counter of yours would be forced to take some damage here and there a little, reducing his usefulness.

He has almost perfect coverage and since Sucker Punch aren't resisted by Steel-types, he isn't forced to switch out when faster Steel-types are in.

Not to mention that MKang has decent bulk which makes the task of revenge killing it even more difficult and arduous.

 

[WebBowser]

since everyone seems to be focusing on what kangaskhan hits instead of what can hit it, here's some calcs I ran through:

252+ SpA Accelgor Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 240-284 (68.3 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (I know he's not common, but thats precisely the point)
252+ SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 162-192 (46.1 - 54.7%) -- 58.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Weavile Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 226-268 (64.3 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 262-310 (74.6 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 322-380 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 235-277 (66.9 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 338-398 (96.2 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 390-462 (111.1 - 131.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 414-488 (117.9 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 351-413 (100 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 318-375 (90.5 - 106.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 196-231 (55.8 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 220-259 (62.6 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 361-429 (102.8 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 234-277 (66.6 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 284-336 (80.9 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 218-258 (62.1 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

and megas
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan in Sun: 313-370 (89.1 - 105.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 271-321 (77.2 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Force Palm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 326-386 (92.8 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO (this is a joke do you see what I am doing here)
252+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 186-219 (52.9 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Manectric Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 204-240 (58.1 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 160-189 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 368-436 (104.8 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252- Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Power-Up Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 172-204 (49 - 58.1%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO (seriously I mean c'mon)
252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 314-370 (89.4 - 105.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

and oh brother, the list you'd get if you counted choice scarves!!

the thing I'm trying to get across here is: don't specifically focus on what can wall her. she can be revenge killed with ease by many common OU threats and even some uncommon ones. the lateral view seems to be "she has so much power" but no one seems to be focusing on her speed: 100. she can be outsped by plenty, and, if I were to include choice scarves, which she cannot wear, and trick room setups, which she cant deal with, then her utility is significantly lowered. power output isn't everything in pokemon, there's also strategy y'know.

You DO realize that most kangas run 252 HP and would be stupid not to? With sucker punch, you really don't need to invest in speed. At all.

 

[Tressed]

Please don't ban another mega stone. I can understand why Gengarite had to go (I disagree with the decision to ban it, but I at least can see why you would), but this isn't really all THAT broken. People who are saying that he is uncounterable must be running hyper offense or something because I've never had a true problem with Kangaskhan before. He's hella vulnerable to status, not too hard to revenge kill, and as long as you carry a phazer Power-Up punch doesn't bother you too much really either. Have a defensive core and you'll be fine. I turn to Skarmory or Mandibuzz to deal with Kangaskhan, and they handle him relatively well. Skarmory sets up Spikes in his face, and Mandibuzz stalls him out with Toxic/Roost. Both of them can carry Whirlwind to remove him if he gets greedy and tries to boost. I want an inclusive metagame that involves all aspects of the game, and if we keep this up mega stones are gonna fall like dominoes. Blazikenite got banned, Gengarite is the next-most broken. Gone. Now it is Kangaskhanite. Once that is gone, there will be another newly "most-broken" mega stone.

We're not banning Mega Stones, we're banning items that utterly break Pokemon, like Soul Dew on the Latis. Gengarite Gengar was overpowered, and Kangaskhanite Kangaskhan is overpowered, simple as that. Other megas aren't going to be seeing the banhammer because none of them were anywhere near as good as these two.

Also, who the hell are you playing? +2 Return OHKOs Mandibuzz, and Skarmory gets 2HKOed by the same move.

 

[Pikadooder]

I've never had a problem with my Skarmory or Mandibuzz. I've been running a defensive Arcanine set for fun, and it can come in and intimidate+Will-O-Wisp. Skarmory and Mandibuzz have 50% instant recovery, and as a bonus MegaKangas coverage move for Skarmory is sucker punch which fails on turns on which you roost. Whirlwind forces him to take repeated damage from rocks. I don't even use MegaKangaskhan I just haven't had enough trouble with him to want to see him banned.

 

[Farpafraf]

Please don't ban another mega stone. I can understand why Gengarite had to go (I disagree with the decision to ban it, but I at least can see why you would), but this isn't really all THAT broken. People who are saying that he is uncounterable must be running hyper offense or something because I've never had a true problem with Kangaskhan before. He's hella vulnerable to status, not too hard to revenge kill, and as long as you carry a phazer Power-Up punch doesn't bother you too much really either. Have a defensive core and you'll be fine. I turn to Skarmory or Mandibuzz to deal with Kangaskhan, and they handle him relatively well. Skarmory sets up Spikes in his face, and Mandibuzz stalls him out with Toxic/Roost. Both of them can carry Whirlwind to remove him if he gets greedy and tries to boost. I want an inclusive metagame that involves all aspects of the game, and if we keep this up mega stones are gonna fall like dominoes. Blazikenite got banned, Gengarite is the next-most broken. Gone. Now it is Kangaskhanite. Once that is gone, there will be another newly "most-broken" mega stone.

1)You're insane.
2)You run him on your team.

*Is Blaziken who got(rightfully) banned.Not his megastone.
*MGengar was broken Mkhan is Mbroken.

 

[silfan]

Please don't ban another mega stone. I can understand why Gengarite had to go (I disagree with the decision to ban it, but I at least can see why you would), but this isn't really all THAT broken. People who are saying that he is uncounterable must be running hyper offense or something because I've never had a true problem with Kangaskhan before. He's hella vulnerable to status, not too hard to revenge kill, and as long as you carry a phazer Power-Up punch doesn't bother you too much really either. Have a defensive core and you'll be fine. I turn to Skarmory or Mandibuzz to deal with Kangaskhan, and they handle him relatively well. Skarmory sets up Spikes in his face, and Mandibuzz stalls him out with Toxic/Roost. Both of them can carry Whirlwind to remove him if he gets greedy and tries to boost. I want an inclusive metagame that involves all aspects of the game, and if we keep this up mega stones are gonna fall like dominoes. Blazikenite got banned, Gengarite is the next-most broken. Gone. Now it is Kangaskhanite. Once that is gone, there will be another newly "most-broken" mega stone.

Just because you never have any problem with a pokemon does not mean it does not deserve to be banned.
I have never had any problem with Mega Kangaskhan either because I have Sableye and Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn in my team, but it doesn't take much for me to realize how broken this thing is.

And please read a bit of the thread before posting this. Last few pages have had people discussed Mandibuzz CAN'T survive PuP to Return. Skarmory might survive but he needs to take huge damage just to phase Mega Kangaskhan out. That does not solve the problem at all, just delaying the inevitable.

 

[Subpar]

If you can deal with it, it isn't utterly broken. People here are like OMG this metagame isn't identical to Gen V. It is such a bummer. All the buffs to stall and you can't think of a way to deal with one strong physical Pokemon? People would just rather ban things than put in the effort to be able to counter them.

Your argument is flawed. I can say the same for Garchomp previously. Don't tell me there is no way to deal with it. Checks and everything. But it was still banned. And like you said, you ran a whole lot of defensive Pokes.

If I'm running a defensive core and only ONE out of the core can deal with it, I'll have to keep it at full health or risk a KO. How is that reasonable?

 

[Dragontamer]

Manaphy, Genesect, Excadrill, Thundurus, and Tornadus-T have been unbanned in Pokebank-OU... and none of them seem to give me as much trouble as the Mega-Khan.

Ban this mother-f***er, so that we can move on to fixing the metagame already!

 

[HungryHippowdon]

Blazikenite got banned

Blazikenite wasn't banned, Blaziken itself was.

And as I read through this thread, I'm seeing people say that his power is justified due to the fact that he requires a megastone to use, and therefore SHOULD be overpowering. That people should gladly sack a physical wall or a Destiny Bond user because he is a mega and having to sack a Pokemon (or two) every time you see him would be good use put to those Pokemon. But I really don't agree. That's not how the metagame should be played. Just because megastones are held in high standard by Gamefreak doesn't mean we should glorify mega evolutions and excuse their power. Ubers are pretty damn powerful too and mostly held in the same regard, should we let them be used?

Personally, I'm hoping for a metagame where a mega evolution on your team would be optional, and not a must have. But that's just me.

 

[DaiGuren]

Please don't ban another mega stone. I can understand why Gengarite had to go (I disagree with the decision to ban it, but I at least can see why you would), but this isn't really all THAT broken. People who are saying that he is uncounterable must be running hyper offense or something because I've never had a true problem with Kangaskhan before. He's hella vulnerable to status, not too hard to revenge kill, and as long as you carry a phazer Power-Up punch doesn't bother you too much really either. Have a defensive core and you'll be fine. I turn to Skarmory or Mandibuzz to deal with Kangaskhan, and they handle him relatively well. Skarmory sets up Spikes in his face, and Mandibuzz stalls him out with Toxic/Roost. Both of them can carry Whirlwind to remove him if he gets greedy and tries to boost. I want an inclusive metagame that involves all aspects of the game, and if we keep this up mega stones are gonna fall like dominoes. Blazikenite got banned, Gengarite is the next-most broken. Gone. Now it is Kangaskhanite. Once that is gone, there will be another newly "most-broken" mega stone.

Lol what's with the bias. Sorry to be rude but if you want to play in an inclusive metagame that involves all aspects of the game, then get out of here and go play somewhere else, because Smogon will ban everything that is decidedly broken. It's just that megastones are the "new thing" thats why its getting all the spotlight. In gen V id imagine it was weather sweepers that were in the spotlight, which led to the banning of excadrill as well as swift swim+drizzle

 

[noobcubed]

Personally, I'm hoping for a metagame where a mega evolution on your team should be optional. But that's just me.

If you're sick of mega-evolutions (and one sympathises), play Little Cup.

 

[Tressed]

I've never had a problem with my Skarmory or Mandibuzz. I've been running a defensive Arcanine set for fun, and it can come in and intimidate+Will-O-Wisp. Skarmory and Mandibuzz have 50% instant recovery, and as a bonus MegaKangas coverage move for Skarmory is sucker punch which fails on turns on which you roost. Whirlwind forces him to take repeated damage from rocks. I don't even use MegaKangaskhan I just haven't had enough trouble with him to want to see him banned.

Also, who the hell are you playing? +2 Return OHKOs Mandibuzz, and Skarmory gets 2HKOed by the same move.

Again, how are you handling Mega Kangaskhan? Skarmory and Mandibuzz are not good answers to this thing, and I'm not sure how much a +1 Return does to Arcanine but I don't like its chances after Stealth Rock.

 

[HungryHippowdon]

If you're sick of mega-evolutions (and one sympathises), play Little Cup.

I'm not sick of mega-evolutions, I'm sick of overpowered ones. If you want to use one, that's fine, but I don't like the idea that running one is almost required in order to succeed. Mega-evolutions aren't as powerful as they seem as you can't use Leftovers or Life Orb or Choice Scarf on them. But it's shit like Mega-Kangaskhan that can plow through walls easily that change all of that, they ARE overpowering and they do reinforce the fact that I need to run Kangaskhanite or something similar to keep up with it's power.