I completely agree with this, I think their are very few mega's which will be Used in everybattle, Mega mawile because of its Priority and bulk, I see a possibility for Mega Ampharos just thanks to the fact that it gains that dual dragon typing and can manage a worthy hit. Lastly I think all of the Starter Megas - X and Y with Garchomp and tyranitar aswell. But I feel that's it in presence mainly. I feel Absols magic bounce may make it a worthy switch.
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Other Viable Megas
- Thread starter thedotwalks
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Mega lucario is the shit, even being one of the best sweepers in ubers.
I haven't used Lucario, but the same issues plagues him as before, he can't take hits very well. The ever present Talonflame can OHKO MLucario with a +2 Bravebird. Most people don't like MGyrados due to his typing, but his overall bulk is great, not to mention Mold Breaker EQ can OHKO Rotom-W who is running rampant, as well as check Talonflame and most other priority users. With one dragon dance, it can outspeed most unscarfed threats as well. That's my two cents on megas :)
I dont think saying something at plus 2 with a 120 power move ohko's mega lucario shows that he can't take hit. also the combination of mega lucario's ability, power, ability to be either physical or special, his access to 3 great priority mives, and his 112 speed tier makes him one of the best mega's in the game and 2nd best current ou legal mega (soon to be number 1)
well I guess i am just a little confused at what the point you are trying to make is? is it that mega lucario isnt great b/c of that, or that he shouldn't be suspected ever b/c of it, or that hes not a very good mega b/c of it, or are you just naming a possible counter?
either way all mega lucario needs is to be teamed with a hetran, rotom w, or a ttar and then talonflame no longer really matters (also someone who sets sr could work)
I am really asking what your point is, not trying to sound sarcastic
Being reasonably frail doesn't make it bad, you can't be expecting something with so much offensive power and coverage to be taking psycho boosts all day.
I think 252+ Atk SD/Iron Head/Play Rough/Sucker Punch Mega Mawile is extremely potent. Firstly it's resistant to status, being immune to Toxic and being able to SD whilst the opponent switches into a WoW user thereby maintain its original Atk. Paralysis is the best thing to do to Mawile, but the majority of players are still going to think WoWing it is the better option. Secondly it has great neutral coverage (unlike some of the other attack focussed megas, most of which defensive WoW Sableye can stall out), and if you don't try to initially burn it pokemon that do come in need to firstly be able to survive a 1356 Atk Sucker Punch (339 x2 from Huge Power x 2 from SD), secondly have a strong super effective move to OHKO it and lastly need to outspeed its other attacks - restricting you to farily bulky EQ using fighting types or Fire Blast/Flare Blitz using dark types for the most part, a fairly limited selection. Lastly Intimidate on the base Mawile gives you loads of opportunity to mega evolve and SD on the same turn by forcing a switch. To me this is one of the best megas by far currently still in OU, even better to me than Kangaskhan due to the fact it's so hard to wall.
Sorry, I was being slightly confusing. My point was more trying to make Lucario not a suspect for the Ban-wagon. To be honest, I think Blaziken was banned too early, because speed has a much smaller effect this season compared to last ones. Blaziken does not have any meaningful priority moves and both Talonflame and Azumarill are great checks and counters to Blaziken. But he still got insta-banned. I just don't want to see Lucario get banned as such as well.
On the other hand, I am ready for the MKangaskahn Ban, because he is really annoying to keep running into.
On the other hand, I am ready for the MKangaskahn Ban, because he is really annoying to keep running into.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 445-524 (126 - 148.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
OMFG, Mewtwo for OU guys!! Deoxys-A can't take a hit either. Lets bring him down from Ubers >_<.
Anyway, ubers talk isn't allowed until the discussion threads pop up... But honestly, using +2 Talonflame Bravebirds as a "reason" for pokemon to stay OU or not is a pretty bad argument.
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Moving forward with this thread, I still think Mega Medicham just needs the "right team", and the "right support". OHKOing Skarmory with +1 High Jump Kick is most certainly a thing.
OMFG, Mewtwo for OU guys!! Deoxys-A can't take a hit either. Lets bring him down from Ubers >_<.
Anyway, ubers talk isn't allowed until the discussion threads pop up... But honestly, using +2 Talonflame Bravebirds as a "reason" for pokemon to stay OU or not is a pretty bad argument.
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Moving forward with this thread, I still think Mega Medicham just needs the "right team", and the "right support". OHKOing Skarmory with +1 High Jump Kick is most certainly a thing.
I'd say a good chunk of the Megas are Viable in OU, key word being Viable, but they may or may not make the OU Usage Cut and find themselves in Lower tiers. Sableye was viable last gen, it just didnt meet the Usage requirement. So, aside from obvious stuff like MKang and MLuke, which can be pretty splashable, there's some good things about the overshadowed Megas, like Mega Manectric being suprisingly good on VoltTurn Teams with Lando-T, MAggron's biggest problem is lack of recovery, but it still has a good enough movepool to use that Defensive Filter with, like T Wave or SR, or even Taunt and Metal Burst, MMawile and MMedicham hit like trucks with Huge/Pure Power and 100/105 Attack Stats, the twin Zards have various aspects that make them viable, with ZardY being a Sun Nuke with 159 Sp. Atk and Drought, and Zard X has a great STAB combination and is a potent sweeper if it gets time to set up, I've even seen Zard Sets that run Will-o-Wisp and Roost for a more bulky Zard, and then there's stuff like Mega Pinsir, but I dont want this to go on forever.
Anyway, what I'm getting at here is that alot of Megas are viable, but so long as stuff like MLuke and MKanga continue to overshadow them, it's possible they wont make the OU cut.
Anyway, what I'm getting at here is that alot of Megas are viable, but so long as stuff like MLuke and MKanga continue to overshadow them, it's possible they wont make the OU cut.
I think if Blaziken had been burnable it might have stayed in the tier, as it isn't it's way too easy to get ridiculous attack and speed with him and then sweep or just as easily BP it to someone else (still leaving him to sweep later on). Plus he isn't weak to SR which is quite a huge deal for physical fire types, and only two standout checks would have also meant that everyone would have had to run a Talonflame or Azumarill - which is way too restrictive to team variety. So yeah, as far as I can see, Uber was definitely the right choice.
I was a bit dubious about whether Mega Kangaskhan should be banned initially, as he's not entirely uncounterable. However, after learning he gets 100% health from Wish he's definitely worthy of a ban - it's added a whole extra layer to making him difficult to deal with as now you have to have at least some strategy for him combined with a Wish user.
In regards to Mega Medicham I don't think he's viable at all, swap in a ghost and he completely pancakes himself with HJK. Maybe a mixed set with Shadow Ball might work, but every then you need great prediction and is base 80 SAtk going to 2HKO most ghosts anyway? Maybe, but probably not.
Wait, what??? Where did you see that?
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 192-228 (59.2 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 206-243 (78.6 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 576-680 (219.8 - 259.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
If they switch-in on the Bulk up...
+1 252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Trevenant: 384-452 (102.6 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 288-340 (88.8 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 159-190 (60.9 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Who needs Shadow Ball? If the Ghost isn't dead, cripple it on the switch-in with one of the elemental-punches. If the opponent's ghost is obviously slower than you, use Bulk Up and then KO it as it switches in.
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You're looking at a `mon with 100 base speed and 598 attack. After a bulk up, Mega-Medicham does more damage on non-STAB moves than Mega-Lucario Swords Dances.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 184-218 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 128-152 (32.4 - 38.5%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Even at a 5BP disadvantage, Mega Medicham hits Slowbro harder at +0... and even at +1 Medicham vs +2 Lucario.
+1 252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 276-326 (70 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mega Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 256-302 (64.9 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Obviously, in the long term, Swords Dance will deal more damage than Bulk Up. But the fact of the matter is, +1, and +2 Mega-Medicham is roughly comparable to +2, and +4 Mega-Lucario in terms of damage (slightly more powerful at one-turn of setup, slightly weaker at two-turns of setup). At +0, Mega-Medicham deals significantly more damage.
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That's still not terribly reliable though, against a good opponent with a ghost or two they'll think you'll use one of these punches on their switch and so won't bother switching - leaving their pokemon that's currently in to take a worse hit than you could have given it then take a shot at you. In general pokemon that need to rely on perfect prediction and mind games are really that reliable.
Thats an argument in favor of Medicham if anything. Most `mon cannot take an Ice Punch or Fire Punch from a Mega-Medicham. When you have 598 Attack, you can afford to play it safe with coverage moves.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 284-336 (87.6 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Mega Medicham Ice Punch can KO Dragonite THROUGH the Multiscale. I mean... come on. This is the definition of HUGE POWER. His High Jump Kick is the best physical attack in the game, and his coverage moves are basically as powerful as Mawile's.
But when you replace 90 BP Play Rough with 130 BP High Jump Kick, walls go DOWN. Granted, Mawile is tankier, but Mega Medicham is much much faster.
He is weak to priority though, and by that I mean Gale Wings Talonflame who with neutral nature 252 Atk and no boosting item easily gobbles him up for breakfast:
252 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 326-386 (124.9 - 147.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 302-356 (115.7 - 136.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Same with Aegislash after an SD:
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 366-432 (140.2 - 165.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Plus his speed isn't really good enough (with only Bullet Punch as his own priority) and he has very average bulk, for example I often use a Choice Specs Timid Noivern with Infiltrator:
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Medicham: 297-349 (113.7 - 133.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Infiltrator obviously lets you hit through any sub that's up, and I know some sets use a sub. Beyond that, Sableye can burn him if you don't have a sub up like he can the majority of Megas, and then stall him out or hit him with a STAB Foul Play if you try anymore boosts (using Defensive Sableye which is growing in popularity):
252 Atk Pure Power burned Mega Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 59-70 (19.4 - 23%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
In contrast to:
0 Atk Sableye Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 148-175 (56.7 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
Couple this with the prediction issues and you've really got a lot of variables on your hands that make most other megas much easier to run.
252 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 326-386 (124.9 - 147.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 302-356 (115.7 - 136.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Same with Aegislash after an SD:
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 366-432 (140.2 - 165.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Plus his speed isn't really good enough (with only Bullet Punch as his own priority) and he has very average bulk, for example I often use a Choice Specs Timid Noivern with Infiltrator:
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Medicham: 297-349 (113.7 - 133.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Infiltrator obviously lets you hit through any sub that's up, and I know some sets use a sub. Beyond that, Sableye can burn him if you don't have a sub up like he can the majority of Megas, and then stall him out or hit him with a STAB Foul Play if you try anymore boosts (using Defensive Sableye which is growing in popularity):
252 Atk Pure Power burned Mega Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 59-70 (19.4 - 23%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
In contrast to:
0 Atk Sableye Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 148-175 (56.7 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
Couple this with the prediction issues and you've really got a lot of variables on your hands that make most other megas much easier to run.
After using Mega Hera for a bit, I can say it works great in practice. It gets plenty to abuse Skill Link and its newfound bulk lets it survive many hits and then easily KO the opponent with Pin Missle/Rock Blast/Bullet seed (Arm thrust sucks and CC isn't useful because Rock/Bug/Grass/Ground coverage from EQ is better than Fighting coverage)coming off of 185 base attack. Definitely a good mega.
Listing Talonflame as a counter is a poor argument, Talonflame threatens everything that is weak to it Brave Bird, that's not just Medicham's problem. Also, ideally you wouldn't switch Medicham into Aegislash, so I'm not sure why not being able to take +2 Shadow Sneaks is relevent to Medicham's usefulness, nor is its ability to take Specs boosted Draco Meteors. Also, Sableye fucks with nearly every physical attacker in existance, that's not something specific to Medicham either.
Medicham can take decent anounts of damage and dish out insane amounts in return, but expecting it to survive some of the hardest hits OU has to offer and beat one of the best general physical checks is unrealistic at best, and isn't something that only Medicham has to deal with (Mega Luke has problems like these too, btw)
Maybe its just me but i feel like Mega Pinsir deserves a nod. While it has a smaller move pool than most it is sooooo powerful, I love me pinsir very much. And when paired with a scarfed Rotom it can tank like no other. Mega Absol i don't see as very useful thanks to it Gaining Magic bounce. I would rather have an Offensive Espeon that is also set up as a special attacker and can sweep teams. I've had good success with that in the past. If Absol kept super luck i could see him getting MUCH MORE use!
Saying something common in OU can OHKO is a great argument - explain to me how it is not? It really doesn't make it any less of a counter just because it can counter other things, and it being common makes it even more of a problem. As for not being able to take Specs boosted Draco Meteors, is that really not a problem with Latios just around the corner? Sure it will be less common because of fairies, but I don't think it'll be irrelevant. Any faster hard hitting specs user will also OHKO.
For me, yes I expect my sweeper to either be able to take strong hits or be able to outspeed the competition - Medicham does neither. As for Mega Luke, you're right he does have the same problems which is why I would never use him as well. How are any of the points you made, apart from most players not being stupid enough to take on Aegislash, relevant at all? If you were trying to make coherent points you didn't get them across very well.
"See ghost, do not HJK" is not great prediction, it's just not being completely stupid.
Medicham has the elemental punches, that's plenty of coverage for anything immune to HJK (even a resist HJK does more damage than a non-SE Elemental punch)
The only real counter there is Aegislash; at least for the Ice+Thunder Punch, Sub and HJK set which is IMO the best set. King's Shield shield also ruins Medicham, so even with Fire Punch it gives trouble: Aegislash is just something best left to the other teammates.
Talonflame gets nailed by Thunderpunch on the switch, it's not a counter. Noivern gets completely annihilated by Ice Punch, same with Lati@s and nearly any other dragon.
Sableye counters nearly any unboosted, burn-vulnerable physical attacker.
Other megas are certainly easier to run. Khan takes next to no thought to use. But docking points off from Medicham because "you gotta predict switches and that's just too hard ;_;" is obscene.
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If you read what I said, Noivern hits through subs with Infilitrator - what's the point in getting rude with me when you fail to read what I put in the first place? As I said too, not all Medichams run subs. Post pokebank there's a strong case for using scarf Chandelure with Infiltrator and Trick too, which walls the lauded HJK/Fire Punch/Ice Punch set. I never actually said Talonflame was a switch in, but it can easily revenge kill - limiting Medicham's sweep to just one pokemon.
There's also no need to say things like "you gotta predict switches and that's too hard ;_;" when my points are completely valid - by not using HJK because of there being ghosts in the field you're limiting yourself to moves without STAB and lower BP, not really a great thing to do. I never said Medicham was terrible, it's just plainly a lot easier to handle than other more popular megas.
There's also no need to say things like "you gotta predict switches and that's too hard ;_;" when my points are completely valid - by not using HJK because of there being ghosts in the field you're limiting yourself to moves without STAB and lower BP, not really a great thing to do. I never said Medicham was terrible, it's just plainly a lot easier to handle than other more popular megas.
It can't switch in though, so it's not a counter.
The reason I think Medicham is a threat is because its HJK is an absurdly powerful move, meaning anything that doesn't resist is probably not a counter. Medicham also has access to a lot of coverage moves, and your opponent doesn't know which ones you have until you use them. Chandelure can wall HJK/Ice/Fire set, but not one with Psycho Cut, and if Stealth Rock is up it can't even counter. Gengar can take at least one elemental punch, but not a Psycho cut. Talonflame can't counter any set that has Thunderpunch, only revenge kill, and psycho cut does a lot of damage, too.
Aegislash is the only thing that can counter any set, even ones with Fire Punch, but it takes tons of damage on the switch. It's only easy to deal with if you already know its moves. Hell, Medicham could even run Foresight to deal with any slower ghosts like Jellicent or Sableye, though I wouldn't recommend it.
At any rate, this thread is for "viable" megas, not just the popular ones that are ridiculously strong and hard to counter.
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