Pokémon Zygarde

[Calm_Mind_Latias]

I do like ExtremeSpeed on it.

Take this situation for example:

Zygarde is slower than your opponent's Pokemon. Zygarde uses Earthquake but does not KO the opponent and Zygarde can finish off your opponent next turn. Your opponent would attack during the next turn anyway, but you can use Coil to boost and use the boosted ExtremeSpeed to finish off your opponent.

ExtremeSpeed allows for attack chaining on faster Pokemon: take a hit, use Earthquake or Stone Edge and then ExtremeSpeed.

Both have their merits, but I'd go with Sub on a specially defensively set. Extremespeed has more merit if you're running an offensive 252 HP / 252+ Atk, for example.

ExtremeSpeed works best if you are slower.

 

[SuperMeep]

Anybody thought about assault vest? Zygarde has great defense already, and assault vest makes it even better!

Zygarde @AV
252 hp, 252 Atk
Extreme speed
Dragon Tail
Earthquake
Stone edge

 

[Always!]

Anybody thought about assault vest? Zygarde has great defense already, and assault vest makes it even better!

Zygarde @AV
252 hp, 252 Atk
Extreme speed
Dragon Tail
Earthquake
Stone edge

An interesting set, but you lose out on Coil and DD, two moves that differentiate itself from other dragons...

It can work, but it isn't the most viable option...

 

[Jaroda]

It certainly is bulky and is a good pivot since it resists Stealth Rock but you simply don't do enough damage, and not being able to use Coil is like the main reason to use Zygarde in the first place. Can it work? Sure, but it's far from optimal. Garchomp has far better At and speed tier and a usable ability in Rough Skin. I say if you aren't going to boost then Garchomp is almost always a better choice.

 

[Edgar81539]

I don't know, but I prefer to use a Sub/EQ/ES/Coil set. Yeah, I know I lose on Skarmory and Noivern, but this allows me to setup in and defeat Quagsire, Ferrothorn and other slow physically defensive threats. Oh, and on the Togekiss asunt, Dazzling Gleam from a defensive Togekiss 3HKOes the Zygarde version I'm using.

 

[Scarlet Spyder]

I don't know, but I prefer to use a Sub/EQ/ES/Coil set. Yeah, I know I lose on Skarmory and Noivern, but this allows me to setup in and defeat Quagsire, Ferrothorn and other slow physically defensive threats. Oh, and on the Togekiss asunt, Dazzling Gleam from a defensive Togekiss 3HKOes the Zygarde version I'm using.

Togekiss still wrecks you because you will be doing pitiful damage with extreme speed. That set loses to bulky fliers in general (which there are plenty). You'd have to get many Coils before you could proceed to do significant damage to anything.

Anyways, I'm finding Yache berry to be a staple on Zygarde as it gives it a second life essentially and you can usually destroy the Pokemon with the ice move with +1 EQ and Extreme Speed (Mamoswine being a good example).

 

[myw]

Togekiss still wrecks you because you will be doing pitiful damage with extreme speed. That set loses to bulky fliers in general (which there are plenty). You'd have to get many Coils before you could proceed to do significant damage to anything.

Anyways, I'm finding Yache berry to be a staple on Zygarde as it gives it a second life essentially and you can usually destroy the Pokemon with the ice move with +1 EQ and Extreme Speed (Mamoswine being a good example).

Not doing a calc, but my sense tells me Stone edge should probably kill Togekiss in at least a 2hko.
Edit: at the VERY LEAST with a boost.

 

[Edgar81539]

Togekiss still wrecks you because you will be doing pitiful damage with extreme speed. That set loses to bulky fliers in general (which there are plenty). You'd have to get many Coils before you could proceed to do significant damage to anything.

Anyways, I'm finding Yache berry to be a staple on Zygarde as it gives it a second life essentially and you can usually destroy the Pokemon with the ice move with +1 EQ and Extreme Speed (Mamoswine being a good example).

Yeah, I know I miss on them, but the opportunity to be able to destroy Ferrothorn or at least scare it out and as I said, other walls that like to rack up passive damage is very important for me. Anyway, I can scare out flyers by bringin in my Tyranitar.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

When it comes to moves, Edge quake is pretty vital and if you opt out of one of them, you'll miss out on a lot. I'm not going to say that you HAVE to run them, but if you don't have both of them, the rest of your team will have to be built to cover the slack. Dragon Dance OR coil (or both for some people) is also a necessity. His atk is too low to try to do much without boosting. If you don't run DD, then I highly suggest running Extremespeed as his speed is too low on its own. Any other move you include (sub, glare, dragon tail, etc.) will have to offer your team something that is worth losing the general coverage. If you're pretty successful at setting hazards, or need a bulky phaser, dragon tail is a great move, and might even be preferred over extremespeed. If you really hate status that much, sub might be useful. These moves are all viable, but aren't going to be the standard.

As for items, leftovers is your best bet. Coil sets almost depend on the passive recovery to help them get as many boosts as they can. The next option is the lum berry, as will-o-wisp is a common threat. DD sets may find a Yache Berry preferred as it helps them get a speed boost off and go on from there. Other viable items are things like the weakness policy, as you can forego boosting and invest in defense without losing offensive power, Salac Berry, as Coil and sub sets can get to low HP pretty safely and use the speed boost to sweep, and life orb, as the boost in power can let you attack without needing to boost, which isn't expected. Feel free to test the unexpected options, but in general, leftovers is the best option.

 

[Terminate421]

I understand where you're coming from, believe me! I actually started out using the Coil / EQ / SE / ESpeed set first, but I changed ESpeed to Sub and never looked back. My reasoning is:

A) Outspeeding priority isn't important because priority will bounce right off a boosted Zygarde.
B) Picking off weakened opponents is nice, but they need to be severely weakened for ESpeed. Zygarde should have the bulk to simply tank their hits anyway.
C) You're right, but in the same vein, you shouldn't be trying to sweep with Zygarde if there are still faster threats that can threaten to KO him anyway.

ESpeed sounds nice on paper, but in practice I found it nearly useless. What are you going to use it for? Anything that can threaten Zygarde isn't going to mind a +1 Extremespeed because it's pathetically weak. Sub is important because:

A) Blocks all the Toxic / WoWs flying around in OU (Rotom is the most common mon in OU and losing to WoW sucks).
B) Allows Zygarde to set up on defensive threats (Rotom only has roughly a 25% chance to break Zygarde's sub with Hydro Miss).
C) Eases predictions by giving you a buffer against incoming switches, to use the correct coverage move.

Both have their merits, but I'd go with Sub on a specially defensively set. Extremespeed has more merit if you're running an offensive 252 HP / 252+ Atk, for example.

+2 0 Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 159-188 (55.7 - 65.9%)
+2 252+ Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 221-261 (77.5 - 91.5%)

I've been running Lum Berry on him and find it allows at least one Dragon Dance regardless of status being thrown at me. After that just earthquake or if you have to, extreme speed etc.

His bulk is enough to take some minor hits so while sub/leftovers is nice on survivability, I feel like it isn't worth that move slot.

 

[LoneWolf X14]

Ok so now i have a question or something i want other people's opinion on Coil vs Dragon Dance. I dont what it is maybe bc its im an offensive player but when i run coil i feel the speed loss is to much and i find DD to be more useful spamming outrage and such.

Coil provides defense and perfect stone edge but still what if they outspeed you and they send in a special attacker? I mean i guess you switch out right? Also what evs would you run with coil bc i the sets ive seen(and ive posted some) still maximize speed would investing in hp be more viable in a coil set?

Speaking of good synergy any fairy particularly sylveon seems to be a good partner passing wishes, tanking special hits, and healing Zygarde when necessary. Opinions?

 

[Jaroda]

We just talked about speed tiers for the Coil sets just a page back. How early are you sending in Zygarde exactly? He should really be saved for end game, or like I do, revenge with ESpeed occasionally.

If you're aiming to spam DDance + Outrage you may as well utilize Haxorus, Dragonite or Moxie Salamence, since they all have better Attack and two have better speed as well. Lum still works great on Haxorus since even if you don't get statused while you boost, the berry will then cure your confusion, and with Mold Breaker you can hit Rotom with Earthquake.

It doesn't have to be a fairy. Vaporeon is a fantastic Wish passer, quite bulky and resists Ice while absorbing Water. Can also throw out Scalds and BP Substitutes or Acid Armor if you want to stick with Dragon Dance.

 

[Terminate421]

Ok so now i have a question or something i want other people's opinion on Coil vs Dragon Dance. I dont what it is maybe bc its im an offensive player but when i run coil i feel the speed loss is to much and i find DD to be more useful spamming outrage and such.

Coil provides defense and perfect stone edge but still what if they outspeed you and they send in a special attacker? I mean i guess you switch out right? Also what evs would you run with coil bc i the sets ive seen(and ive posted some) still maximize speed would investing in hp be more viable in a coil set?

Speaking of good synergy any fairy particularly sylveon seems to be a good partner passing wishes, tanking special hits, and healing Zygarde when necessary. Opinions?

Requires great prediction and sylveon can die from physicals so Psyshock could mess you up (But psychic as offensive isn't that great this gen)

Speaking of which, I've been running DD with little to no issues. It can seriously flatten teams (avoid ice beam)

 

[LoneWolf X14]

Jaroda omg sorry about the speed tiers thing lol i didnt word the question right i guess. But yeah i understand there better options running DD. Here's the proper question what are some feats he has had with coil, what has he survived that would show that outspeeding and spamming outrages cant accomplish what surviving an attack and retaliating after coils can do. Omg im so embarrassed about the speed tiers thing i feel like a noob repeating that.

 

[Jaroda]

Haha, chill buddy, no biggie. :)

Coil naturally lets you take all priority attacks better when you know an ESpeed wont cut it damage wise. Conkeldurr Mach Punch, Scizor Bullet Punch, Azumarill Aqua Jet, that kind of stuff. All physically bulky and Scizor resists Espeed, Aegeslash is immune to it with Shadow Sneak too. Mamoswine's Ice Shard is certainly the big offender here though! Mega Lucario for example resists ESpeed and you want to go for the EQ. It knows it doesn't have time to use SD/NP so it has to attack with Close Combat right away, which you'll be able to take much more comfortably. Also consider that the pokes you can't kill with +1 anything you'll always benefit from Coil more from the softened blow and then finishing with ESpeed.

Also I can not stress enough the reliability of Stone Edge knowing it has so much better acc.

 

[Darknut07]

Gyarados has dual stabs that nothing is immune to, Taunt, an immunity, and two useful abilities. Nor is there an electric type priority.

There are a lot of things that Gyarados has over Zygarde, and we shouldn't compare them in the first place, but its STABs are not one of those things.

 

[mertyville]

Guess I am the only one thinking of not using offensive Dragon Moves on Offensive Sets

Zygarde@Expert Belt
Ability: What is this?
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Spe, 252 Atk, 4 HP
- ExtremSpeed
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Earthquake

That thing is a monster. I have seen a lot of people switching to aegislash to tank an Outrage and they lost 40-60 % of their health because of Crunch, where I could finish them off with an earthquake.
The annoying thing is, no matter how much I boost its attack, I am keep running into much bulkier pokemon who easiely tank +1 EQ. But the same can be said the opposite way, that Zygarde can tank almost any neutral move without investment.

 

[LoneWolf X14]

Haha, chill buddy, no biggie. :)

Coil naturally lets you take all priority attacks better when you know an ESpeed wont cut it damage wise. Conkeldurr Mach Punch, Scizor Bullet Punch, Azumarill Aqua Jet, that kind of stuff. All physically bulky and Scizor resists Espeed, Aegeslash is immune to it with Shadow Sneak too. Mamoswine's Ice Shard is certainly the big offender here though! Mega Lucario for example resists ESpeed and you want to go for the EQ. It knows it doesn't have time to use SD/NP so it has to attack with Close Combat right away, which you'll be able to take much more comfortably. Also consider that the pokes you can't kill with +1 anything you'll always benefit from Coil more from the softened blow and then finishing with ESpeed.

Also I can not stress enough the reliability of Stone Edge knowing it has so much better acc.

I knew ice type attacks would still be a problem. Can he survuve ice shard after a coil or two. Everything you said here was great i agree. Also vaporeon is a great wish passer for him but on earlier pages we were deciding what his biggest threats were dragons and ice types. I said sylveon because it could come in and take opposing dragon attacks for him. In the end though i agree with vaporeon being superior because resisting his x4 weakness is a blessing for him. Opposing dragons in OU are mainly physical so i think after some coils he can tank some attacks and attack with Stone Edge for all those flying type dragons.

mertyville its been agreed that not using dragon attacks is optimal on him so your in the right when saying no dragon moves. Lol i think after dragons reigning supreme for the last few gens its a little hard to let go of spamming outrage. Btw way what nature is your Zygarde. Also expert belt isnt what i would recommend on him but to each their own. Also have you thought of running coil if you think he tanks hits now wait til after a coil or two. Also maybe in stead of crunch use stone edge which becomes perfect after coil. Having earthquake and crunch for aegislash is a little redundant bc equake takes care of it i havent seen air ballon too often leftovers and spooky plate seem to be recommended on ageislash.

 

[Tressed]

Also I can not stress enough the reliability of Stone Edge knowing it has so much better acc.

This right here is half the reason I use Zygarde. Its soooo nice not worrying about missing it for once.

 

[FreeFormJazz]

It's horrendously outclassed as a Dragon Dancer and there is no reason to use it over something like Dragonite, Zard X, or Mega Gyara. As a defensive mon with glare and cool, maybe. I see this thing being UU at best, no way in hell itl be OU

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

It's horrendously outclassed as a Dragon Dancer and there is no reason to use it over something like Dragonite, Zard X, or Mega Gyara. As a defensive mon with glare and cool, maybe. I see this thing being UU at best, no way in hell itl be OU

This is pathetically unimaginative. While I agree its dragon dance sets face stiff competition from the likes of Dragonite and Gyarados (not charizard. Bulkier set up sweepers shouldn't be compared to faster and stronger ones. See any Dragonite vs. Salamence argument), disregarding it is a terrible idea. Dragonite's probably better in most situations simply because of how good multiscale is, but if multiscale is broken via SR or sand or whatever reason, DD dragonite's usefulness plummets. Zygarde doesn't have that problem. I'd say his dragon dance sets are comparable to that of gyarados. He takes physical hits better (except for intimidate victims), but not special hits. And taking into account the difference in BP, Zygarde's main STAB move hits harder than gyarados's

0 Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 109-129 (31.9 - 37.8%) -- 91% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 105-124 (30.7 - 36.3%) -- 58.8% chance to 3HKO

All that said, I still wouldn't use dragon dance, simply because of how good his coil sets are. The fact that you dubbed this amazing dragon UU so easily shows 2 things: you didn't read any of the thread, and you haven't tested Zygarde for yourself (or you have, and just didn't use him right).

Please don't waste smogon's time with a worthless comment like that again.

 

[Edgar81539]

When it comes to moves, Edge quake is pretty vital and if you opt out of one of them, you'll miss out on a lot. I'm not going to say that you HAVE to run them, but if you don't have both of them, the rest of your team will have to be built to cover the slack. Dragon Dance OR coil (or both for some people) is also a necessity. His atk is too low to try to do much without boosting. If you don't run DD, then I highly suggest running Extremespeed as his speed is too low on its own. Any other move you include (sub, glare, dragon tail, etc.) will have to offer your team something that is worth losing the general coverage. If you're pretty successful at setting hazards, or need a bulky phaser, dragon tail is a great move, and might even be preferred over extremespeed. If you really hate status that much, sub might be useful. These moves are all viable, but aren't going to be the standard.

I don't have a problem doing that, but I see that Ferrothorn, Quagsire and other bulky pokemons on the physical side are the most common switch-ins into Zygarde, ya know, since standard runs EQ/Stone Edge, waiting to scare it out, burn it, Toxic stall it or just setup Leech Seed. However, I have surprised a lot of them using Substitute, and I can easily get 2 coils, and from then roll over the opponent's team. This Zygarde is more tailored as an endgame sweeper, I think.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

I don't have a problem doing that, but I see that Ferrothorn, Quagsire and other bulky pokemons on the physical side are the most common switch-ins into Zygarde, ya know, since standard runs EQ/Stone Edge, waiting to scare it out, burn it, Toxic stall it or just setup Leech Seed. However, I have surprised a lot of them using Substitute, and I can easily get 2 coils, and from then roll over the opponent's team. This Zygarde is more tailored as an endgame sweeper, I think.

Yeah, statuses are a sure way to shut Z down, and now that you mention it, Ferrothorn and Quagsire are common switch-ins (another annoying one is Gliscor), so I'll buy sub as a viable move. The reason why I like the EQ/Stone Edge/Extreme Speed/Coil set is because the number of pokemon that can out speed, OHKO, AND afford to take a boosted extremespeed is low. Swapping Extreme Speed for sub definitely protects it from hazards and stalls, but it slows down the pace a lot. I guess it comes down to what you're gonna be using Z for

 

[SuperMeep]

It's horrendously outclassed as a Dragon Dancer and there is no reason to use it over something like Dragonite, Zard X, or Mega Gyara. As a defensive mon with glare and cool, maybe. I see this thing being UU at best, no way in hell itl be OU

Congrats, you've have made yourself look like an idiot who has managed to waste everyone's time by posting something wholly useless, and unimaginative. You have also clearly not read the thread, as you have missed the main reason why you would use zygarde, obviously not have even looked at it's stats, otherwise you would know that it is a bulky attacker, not to be compared to say, Mega Zard or Dragonite, either of which, outside of multiscale, can't take a hit all that well, and the fact that it is a coil user, not DD. Go waste people's time on another forum, smogon is tired if being weighed down by people like you. In short, learn to think before speaking, or GTFO. Comments like that are not only pointless, they derail the thread, defeating the purpose of this website.

 

[Kejmur]

Yeah, statuses are a sure way to shut Z down, and now that you mention it, Ferrothorn and Quagsire are common switch-ins (another annoying one is Gliscor), so I'll buy sub as a viable move. The reason why I like the EQ/Stone Edge/Extreme Speed/Coil set is because the number of pokemon that can out speed, OHKO, AND afford to take a boosted extremespeed is low. Swapping Extreme Speed for sub definitely protects it from hazards and stalls, but it slows down the pace a lot. I guess it comes down to what you're gonna be using Z for

When I tried Coil Zygarde I tried to run Safeguard along with Stone Edge and Earthquake and it was decent option as well especially against bulkier and slower teams. The thing I like about Safeguard is that it still protects me from status while I keep my bulk technically untouched. Of course Substitute is perfectly fine and good move, but I really don't like taking 25% of my bulk just to avoid status/hazards/stalling, although against more offensive teams (especially those frailer ones) that Substitute may be a nice way for example to scout for opponents switch and work from there. At worst your Substitute take damage and you switch out if you don't feel like your position is favorable one. I guess it's just a preference choice - both IMO are viable picks.