Other Viable Megas

[Mario With Lasers]

Well, Jojobobo does have a point, though: the main reason to use MegaMedicham is that absurd High Jump Kick... but you simply won't risk spamming if you see a Ghost in Team Preview, at least not until you completely remove it. Considering the #1 Ghost (and pokémon) is, of all things, Aegislash, Medicham will have huge problems trying to kill shit if the opponent has half a brain.

It's still a viable Mega, though. Only kinda difficult to use.


(man, why doesn't it learn Knock Off...)

 

[BSMEforme]

^^^Let's remember that you can't trick an item to a pokemon holding a mega stone.

 

[Jojobobo]

It can't switch in though, so it's not a counter.

I never initially used the word counter, BlackLight did and in the context of "something that can OHKO"; not something that can "OHKO and switch in too". I used it in response to him and how he contextually described it, if you want to argue petty semantics take it up with him - I never used it in my opening relevant post or subsequent post (and posts after that I never put "Noivern is a counter", it was with respect to Talonflame). No I wouldn't myself describe it as a counter either - I would always call Talonflame or Noivern a revenge killer in that instance - but maybe I'm not so keen as to try and belittle people with definitions and corrections as you are.

In response to the rest - yes it has a good move pool but its coverage is dictated by the rest of your team. A good player will be able to look for the holes in your team and predict what you have restricted Medicham's move pool to, all it has going for it is its attack and a good move pool - plenty of non megas have better bulk and far better speed (and a more reliable strong STAB).

^^^Let's remember that you can't trick an item to a pokemon holding a mega stone.

When I mentioned Chandelure and Trick with Infiltrator I didn't mean that you should Trick a mega, I meant it has a good niche because of being able to Trick through subs but can also incidentally revenge kill (or counter non-Pyscho Cut variants of) Mega Medicham too.

 

[sidakarya]

Medicham does learn Fire Punch, which you could use if only for Aegislash and Trevenant.

 

[Tressed]

Saying something common in OU can OHKO is a great argument - explain to me how it is not? It really doesn't make it any less of a counter just because it can counter other things, and it being common makes it even more of a problem. As for not being able to take Specs boosted Draco Meteors, is that really not a problem with Latios just around the corner? Sure it will be less common because of fairies, but I don't think it'll be irrelevant. Any faster hard hitting specs user will also OHKO.

For me, yes I expect my sweeper to either be able to take strong hits or be able to outspeed the competition - Medicham does neither. As for Mega Luke, you're right he does have the same problems which is why I would never use him as well. How are any of the points you made, apart from most players not being stupid enough to take on Aegislash, relevant at all? If you were trying to make coherent points you didn't get them across very well.

You wouldn't use Mega Luke because it isn't tanky? I see the problem here.

The issue is that you shouldn't be trying to tank those hits in the first place. Why would you leave Medicham in on a +2 Aegislash, or leave it in on Talonflame in the first place, if it will die? No, Medicham isn't tanky, but neither are things like Mega Lucario, Greninja, Volcarona, or Thundurus. Medicham's job is to punch holes. It has the bulk to get in on a resisted or neutral attack, and the power to punish whateverr switches in. Its a wallbreaker, pure and simple. If you were looking for a tank, Medicham isn't your 'mon, but that doesn't mean its bad. Ideally, you should be switching into your tank or wall in order to sponge those big hits, regain momentum, and send Medicham back in when the opportunity presents itself.

Personally, I'm okay with having a mon that can't take a STAB hit from some of the hard hitters. I have five other Pokemon to give that job to.

Also, yeah, my logic for Talonflame wasn't the best. Its not a counter 'cause it gets wrecked by whatever move it tries to switch into.

 

[Dragontamer]

Well, Jojobobo does have a point, though: the main reason to use MegaMedicham is that absurd High Jump Kick... but you simply won't risk spamming if you see a Ghost in Team Preview, at least not until you completely remove it. Considering the #1 Ghost (and pokémon) is, of all things, Aegislash, Medicham will have huge problems trying to kill shit if the opponent has half a brain.

The absurd HJK is definitely the #1 reason to use Medicham, but there are plenty of other absurd things about it as well. It is the fastest user of all three Elemental Punches (outside of lol Gengar and lol Alakazam), and hits pretty damn hard with them too. (Mega Medicham's elemental punches are weaker than Life Orb Conkeldurr, but his speed tier is a big bonus)

In particular, Mega Medicham outruns Breloom's Spore or Trevenant (who otherwise give big issues to slower, tankier `mon like Conkeldurr). Outspeeding Gliscor and OHKOing with Ice Punch is a big deal, and can wreak a lot of teams that would otherwise rely on that stall.

The hard part is figuring out the right team for Mega Medicham. He's not quite as fast as Mega Lucario (who clocks in faster than Espeon and Gengar), nor is he as powerful or bulky as Sheer force LO Conkeldurr. The best job for him will likely be a "lure" for another pokemon on the team.

Overall, it is insanely hard to wall Mega-Medicham due to speed, coverage, and HJK.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

The absurd HJK is definitely the #1 reason to use Medicham, but there are plenty of other absurd things about it as well. It is the fastest user of all three Elemental Punches (outside of lol Gengar and lol Alakazam), and hits pretty damn hard with them too. (Mega Medicham's elemental punches are weaker than Life Orb Conkeldurr, but his speed tier is a big bonus)

In particular, Mega Medicham outruns Breloom's Spore or Trevenant (who otherwise give big issues to slower, tankier `mon like Conkeldurr). Outspeeding Gliscor and OHKOing with Ice Punch is a big deal, and can wreak a lot of teams that would otherwise rely on that stall.

The hard part is figuring out the right team for Mega Medicham. He's not quite as fast as Mega Lucario (who clocks in faster than Espeon and Gengar), nor is he as powerful or bulky as Sheer force LO Conkeldurr. The best job for him will likely be a "lure" for another pokemon on the team.

Overall, it is insanely hard to wall Mega-Medicham due to speed, coverage, and HJK.

Hadn't thought about that, in fact. I just don't get how it's weaker than Conkeldurr. Jolly M-Cham has 590 Attack and LO Conkeldurr has 540, how come?

 

[DaiGuren]

Finally! The monstrosity known as MegaKhan is now banned!

On-topic:

Is there anyway that Medicham can get a dark type move? I think his viability will go way up if it gets that.

 

[Dragontamer]

Hadn't thought about that, in fact. I just don't get how it's weaker than Conkeldurr. Jolly M-Cham has 590 Attack and LO Conkeldurr has 540, how come?

Don't forget about the 1.2x multiplier on Iron Fists. Conkeldurr with LO + Iron Fist clocks in at 648 Attack. Conkeldurr can sacrifice his ability to paralyze / burn foes to turn the 1.2x multiplier into a 1.3x multiplier with Sheer Force, reaching a staggering 702 effective attack (beyond even Mega-Mawile).

None of this changes the fact that (Adamant) M-Cham's HJK is the most powerful physical attack in the game (M-Cham vs Choice Band Rayquaza is pretty close, but if both `mon are Adamant, then Mega-Medicham HJK deals ~7.5% more damage). But when it comes to the conservative "elemental punches" play, Conkeldurr gets a major bonus thanks to his abilities and his ability to hold an item.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Finally! The monstrosity known as MegaKhan is now banned!

On-topic:

Is there anyway that Medicham can get a dark type move? I think his viability will go way up if it gets that.

No. It would be great if it did, but it doesn't.

 

[Ruffles]

You don't need a Dark type move. All you need is a Ghost Type move.
Fighting + Ghost = All metagame neutrally.
So Shadow Claw + HJK is really good coverage. Ofc you'd want 1 of the elemental punches + Psycho Cut as the last two moves.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

You don't need a Dark type move. All you need is a Ghost Type move.
Fighting + Ghost = All metagame neutrally.
So Shadow Claw + HJK is really good coverage. Ofc you'd want 1 of the elemental punches + Psycho Cut as the last two moves.

Medicham doesn't get any Ghost attacks, unless you count Shadow Ball but its SpA is abysmal, you'd be better off running any other physical move.

 

[Ruffles]

Wut, ugh could've almost sworn it learned Shadow Claw. Well, I guess that leaves you to 2 Elemental punches or 1 Elemental punch + Poison Jab (Faries anyone?)

 

[AOPSUser]

Wut, ugh could've almost sworn it learned Shadow Claw. Well, I guess that leaves you to 2 Elemental punches or 1 Elemental punch + Poison Jab (Faries anyone?)

Since the relevant Fairies in OU are Klefki, Mawile, Togekiss, and Azumarill, and High Jump Kick murders the former two, it's much better just to run Thunderpunch as a Fairy coverage. Fire Punch hits Aegislash, and with HJK/Psycho Cut/T-Punch/F-Punch there's not that much that you miss coverage-wise.

 

[sidakarya]

Gliscor and Landorus-T hopelessly wall you without Ice Punch, though.

 

[Ruffles]

Just learned he is able to learn Zen Headbutt.
And choosing 2 out of 3 punches will completely depend on your team's needs.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

And choosing 2 out of 3 punches will completely depend on your team's needs.

All of this. I have a counter for Aegislash on my team, so I don't use Fire Punch because outside of that it's not a good coverage move.

Ice Punch is practically required because of Gliscor and Lando-T being everywhere. Also good for Lati@s, Salamence and any other dragon that resists HJK.

 

[vonK]

His biggest problem is that he's a little slow compared to other offensive 'mons in the metagame while lacking the priority, utility or bulk required to compensate for it. He's also fairly one-note, he comes in and punches things, which makes him easy for a good team to deal with. If he wasn't a Mega he'd be an amazing Pokemon but since he is the opportunity cost of using him may be a little too high, in my opinion Mega-Pinsir and Mega-Mawile far outshine him when it comes to physical threats.

 

[Jojobobo]

The issue is that you shouldn't be trying to tank those hits in the first place. Why would you leave Medicham in on a +2 Aegislash, or leave it in on Talonflame in the first place, if it will die? No, Medicham isn't tanky, but neither are things like Mega Lucario, Greninja, Volcarona, or Thundurus. Medicham's job is to punch holes. It has the bulk to get in on a resisted or neutral attack, and the power to punish whateverr switches in. Its a wallbreaker, pure and simple. If you were looking for a tank, Medicham isn't your 'mon, but that doesn't mean its bad. Ideally, you should be switching into your tank or wall in order to sponge those big hits, regain momentum, and send Medicham back in when the opportunity presents itself.

As a wallbreaker, sure it's good in some instances - if you look at the first time I said anything about Medicham it was in regard to Bulk Up or SD sets which would never work IMO because of the below average bulk. Still there are tankier wallbreakers, such as AV TTar or mega TTar, who hit really quite hard and won't burn themselves out in a few turns of wallbreaking; or faster wallbreakers who also have priority like Mega Luke. I'm not saying it's a terrible wallbreaker, just outclassed and prone to revenge killing (I would always let it kill the mon that's in or switch in an unimportant mon, then revenge kill it is it stays in). On the right team though, sure it can work.

 

[greybob]

I've gotten a lot of mileage out of Mega Heracross. Skill Link is a fantastic ability, and Heracross has great coverage while making use of it. Rock Blast, Pin Missile, and Bullet Seed become extremely deadly, one-shoting pretty much anything weak to them, and does serious damage to anything taking neutral damage, as well. The only downside is the drop in speed, which hasn't been as big a weakness as I initially thought it would be. Additionally, holding Heracrossite and gaining Skill Link means that Choice Scarf and Moxie are out of the question, now. He's still faster than a lot of things, though.

The biggest problem is that 4x Flying weakness, but Heracross always had that problem. At least his Mega form gives him a bit of a defense boost.

Heracross is my favorite Pokemon, so I'm pretty happy about his Mega in general.

The only thing I am still debating is whether it's better to take advantage of Skill Link by using Arm Thrust, or if Close Combat is still preferable for its higher base power. Arm Thrust has no drawbacks, which makes me think it might actually be better. And it can break through subs and focus sash.

 

[Rudoku]

His biggest problem is that he's a little slow compared to other offensive 'mons in the metagame while lacking the priority, utility or bulk required to compensate for it. .

It has priority, just the same crappy unstabbed priority Machamp and Hariyama have.

 

[Dragontamer]

As a wallbreaker, sure it's good in some instances - if you look at the first time I said anything about Medicham it was in regard to Bulk Up or SD sets which would never work IMO because of the below average bulk. Still there are tankier wallbreakers, such as AV TTar or mega TTar, who hit really quite hard and won't burn themselves out in a few turns of wallbreaking; or faster wallbreakers who also have priority like Mega Luke. I'm not saying it's a terrible wallbreaker, just outclassed and prone to revenge killing (I would always let it kill the mon that's in or switch in an unimportant mon, then revenge kill it is it stays in). On the right team though, sure it can work.

Then you don't like medium speed wallbreakers. We get that. But sometimes, speed is absolutely necessary for breaking certain stall cycles. No matter how much attack TTar has, his slower speed means that a set-up Gliscor walls him. And Gliscor can take every attack from TTar sans Ice Beam, but he has Substitute / Protect to scout your attacks. If you switch TTar in on Gliscor's Substitute (or even on Toxic), TTar loses. Period. Instead, you need a faster pokemon to switch in on a predicted Toxic. Mega-Medicham is more than bulky enough to switch into Gliscor's substitute, then he breaks it with Ice Punch as Gliscor chooses either lulzy-damage from Earthquake or Toxic vs Mega Medicham.

Mega-Lucario has to take an Earthquake from Gliscor before the substitute breaks.

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 230-272 (81.8 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It doesn't quite kill Gliscor...

252- SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 212-250 (59.8 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Lucario Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 232-276 (65.5 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

But Mega-Luke can't kill Gliscor in one hit either. So Gliscor behind a sub takes two hits from Mega-Lucario and KOs him with Earthquakes.

-------------

As I said before, a Mega-physical attacker who has the ability to break Gliscor's Sub/Protect cycle is a pretty good niche.

 

[effyouzion]

Then you don't like medium speed wallbreakers. We get that. But sometimes, speed is absolutely necessary for breaking certain stall cycles. No matter how much attack TTar has, his slower speed means that a set-up Gliscor walls him. And Gliscor can take every attack from TTar sans Ice Beam, but he has Substitute / Protect to scout your attacks. If you switch TTar in on Gliscor's Substitute (or even on Toxic), TTar loses. Period. Instead, you need a faster pokemon to switch in on a predicted Toxic. Mega-Medicham is more than bulky enough to switch into Gliscor's substitute, then he breaks it with Ice Punch as Gliscor chooses either lulzy-damage from Earthquake or Toxic vs Mega Medicham.

Mega-Lucario has to take an Earthquake from Gliscor before the substitute breaks.

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 230-272 (81.8 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It doesn't quite kill Gliscor...

252- SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 212-250 (59.8 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Lucario Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 232-276 (65.5 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

But Mega-Luke can't kill Gliscor in one hit either. So Gliscor behind a sub takes two hits from Mega-Lucario and KOs him with Earthquakes.

-------------

As I said before, a Mega-physical attacker who has the ability to break Gliscor's Sub/Protect cycle is a pretty good niche.

Switching a physical attacker into Gliscor is a pretty shit idea all around. Use Gengar or Skarmory if you really have issues with this Gliscor. But really, you don't even need a counter: you can literally switch endlessly between 2 levitating/flying pokes with leftovers and PP stall said Gliscor while it does nothing to you.

 

[Dragontamer]

Switching a physical attacker into Gliscor is a pretty shit idea all around.

Not when said physical attacker OHKOs Gliscor with a weak coverage move.

Use Gengar or Skarmory if you really have issues with this Gliscor. But really, you don't even need a counter: you can literally switch endlessly between 2 levitating/flying pokes with leftovers and PP stall said Gliscor while it does nothing to you.

Good stall-teams at very least get Stealth Rocks on the field before they start stalling. Switching back and forth eventually kills your `mon. Plus, Toxic, which means those levitating / flying pokemon better be Steel or Poison types, lest they get Toxic-stalled to death.

Skarmory does break the stall with Whirlwind + threatens to spike up your opponent's field. But unless you're running a good stall team of your own, your opponent will likely gain momentum eventually through the whirlwind shuffling. Gengar loses if he's running Life Orb: you're pretty much forced to run Utility Gengar if you wanna break the stall. (IE: Taunt McGar or Sub/Disable). So Gengar isn't going to be hitting the opponent's team hard.

In contrast, Mega-Medicham captures momentum from the situation. You are threatening a HJK, or an Elemental Punch. Your opponent needs to make a decision: which pokemon on his team is willing to take a hit from Mega-Medicham?

 

[Impy]

Viable megas = banned