Bob Lee Swagger Doesn't Miss

[Surge's Exeggutor]

Alright, since last time I put up a rate my team i got no responses.. so i figured, if i get creative maybe ill grab some attention. SOO... I came up with an idea, an ALL INFESTATION TEAM. Yeah, that didn't work out so well, but I liked some of the members. So i ran with that. I wanted a team that could reach to the tops of the Ladder on PS and also, do damage on wifi. So lets get started..

Venomoth @ Black Sludge
Ability: Wonder Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Infestation
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance
- Baton Pass

My lead, the fearsome venomoth. Typical lead style, do really no damage but set the course for total destruction. Start with infestation, then Put it to sleep, proceed to Quiver Dance to your liking and baton pass those boosts to your buddies in the back. He works out well most of the time, no one really is going to prepare their team for this guy specifically so he gets away with what he wants. And Prey for the team that leads with a smeargle or klefki

Tangrowth (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Bold Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Leech Seed
- Knock Off
- Infestation

My defensive, leech seeding nightmare. Same set up as Veno, except he takes hits better so he can be brought in on a lot. Knock off to get rid of lefties and watch as their life gets sucked away and mine health regains. Its actually very effective. I love to bring him out against water types obviously, its like a free kill and full health regained.

Kingdra @ Scope Lens
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump
- Focus Energy
- Substitute

And the Bob Lee Swagger of the team. Pass a nice little quiver dance to this guy and it is just about over, and if he gets a substitute in the process... "GG." Crit after crit after crit after crit. Basically nothing is safe and i don't really need that great of coverage. He has worked really well for me so far, always getting a couple of kills before dying. Modest nature or Timid??

Excadrill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 208 HP / 252 SDef / 48 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Shadow Claw
- Rock Slide

Surprise! Assault Vest Excadrill. How bout that. Take a couple hits, dish a couple out and I got myself a nice rapid spinning tank. He will receive my Quiver Dance Pass on occasion if i notice that the team is earthquake weak, or i Just want to get rid of hazards before letting my other guys have their shot at them. Not really much else to say about him.

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head/Fire Fang
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough

My mega, I figured mawile would be a good mega as it provides me with a steel and a fairy. A deadly combination. The recipient of some dance passes itself to get its speed up but can function on its own with a swords dance. I don't know if i want iron head or fire fang though. I need a couple opinions on that. Sucker Punch for punching suckers obviously. and Play rough for those dragons that think they can take me on.

Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind

Late game sweeper, Pretty normal talonflame. Brave Bird, Brave Bird Brave Bird. U-Turn for when I can knock out a poke and switch at the same damn time. Flare Blitz for the ones that are weak to it. And tailwind just because, I have never really used it because really you almost only need BB. This guy does his job just as any other talonflame would.


I am still in the process of figuring out how they all work together and how they all work in general. Any advice would be appreciated greatly. This in my eyes is a pretty creative team here. Especially on this forum. Hopefully you guys could help me out. Thanks. Also, with Pokebank open soon, i hope to have access to all kinds of pokemon, so rate away and don't hold back.

 

[Seiterman]

It's interesting, to be sure. How's it been working on PS?

Regardless, I have a few suggestions.

First off, I feel your team could have better Quiver Pass recipients. Everyone more or less enjoys the boosts to SpDef and Speed, but the only one who can take advantage of the SpA boost is Kingdra, who, due to the crit-boosting set you're running, is liable to Draco Meteor them away anyway. While the crits ignore SpA drops below x1, you'll still lose the 1.5x power advantage or higher after a Draco Meteor. That's not to say that Kingdra isn't a good idea, because it's pretty worthwhile. Maybe some other members could be changed to benefit more though? Just a thought.

Looking at each member individually:

• Venomoth: It would seem to me that this lead doesn't fare well against some significant other leads/threats in general. It's certainly Trick-bait from things like Rotom-W, and can be Taunted pretty hard as well. Top-tier leads like Rotom-W, Greninja, Genesect and others can just U-Turn or Volt Switch out of Infestation (or immediately,) and switch to an appropriate answer. Even with investment it's far from bulky, and plenty of things can still outspeed it even with 252 EV's in Speed and a Timid nature. While the set you have is theoretically good, I see it faltering against faster, harder hitting threats and opponents that don't lead with Smeargle or Klekfi. Venomoth as a whole rewards your team greatly when it does work out, but I think it needs more support and better recipients to be used to it's fullest. Whether you decide to replace him or build the team around him is up to you.
• Tangrowth- First thing I notice is that you're using a second Sleep Powder mon. With Sleep Clause in effect you have two Pokemon that rely on the threat of Sleep to keep certain enemies at bay, but you can only sleep one of them. That 75% accuracy is also shaky. Nonetheless, Knock Off and Leech Seed are always appreciated. I'd think that Infestation more often than not doesn't trap anything worthwhile. If it's something that can't take on Tangrowth I doubt they're staying in to let you get that Infestation off. Also of note is that he cannot take special hits at all. Even if you put investment into his SpDef, threats like Greninja, Genesect and Latios will still scare him out, and worse yet, your team lacks an adequate switch-in. Kingdra may take resisted hits to a degree, but your other "bulky," mon, Excadrill, can't reliably switch into powerful special moves when he needs to take another hit immediately after. Like Venomoth, he also attracts Trick and, to a lesser degree, Taunt. He doesn't synergize defensively with Venomoth, as he shares many of the same weaknesses and has similar special bulk as a whole. You may want to reconsider this team member.
• Kingdra- Wonderful thing about this guy is that he doesn't need much in terms of support. He can certainly punch holes in teams with little effort when set up, especially with a Quiver Dance in tow. As for your nature, it depends on what you want to outspeed before and after a boost. Without a speed boost, Timid speed-ties neutral base 98's (Hydreigon,) and outspeeds all Heatran, Max Speed Dragonite, Mamoswine, Kyurem-B without max investment, Togekiss, and a whole host of other Pokemon. After a single Quiver Dance, Timid Kingdra outspeeds Jolly Max Speed Gyarados, Max Speed Accelgor (so basically the unboosted metagame, though Modest Kingdra still gets the jump on base 130's like Jolteon with a boost,) and all +1 Dragonite. If you're really worried about outspeeding those threats, go Timid. More of the threats before a boost sound worrisome to me, so I'd look more closely into those. You can certainly get away with Modest with a boost though.
• Excadrill- This guy's surprisingly bulky with an Assault Vest, but not so much that he can switch into a lot of special moves. Many threats like Greninja, Genesect and Latios still threaten to 2HKO him, so he has to be very wary on the way into the battlefield. If you're careful with him I can see him being a potential boon to the team, and I'm interested in hearing more about how he plays. I definitely wouldn't use him as an answer to most special attackers though.
  
• Mawile- She's a lot of fun to play with. My main concern with her is that she has a hard time switching into many hits (primarily special attackers,) and functions very similarly to Talonflame. Both excel as late-game attackers, with Mawile being more mind-blowingly powerful while Talonflame has reliable priority and speed on his side. Mawile is also harder to use, so keep this in mind. Keep Iron Head over Fire Fang. You need a reliable STAB option, and I've been let down by Play Rough before.
• Talonflame- That sure is Talonflame. Not much else to say. Just keep in mind some of his redundancies with Mawile and figure out whether or not it's worth having two late-game mons.

Edit: Just wanted to talk about specific weaknesses a bit.

The first thing is that this team doesn't suffer powerful special attackers well. I think your team needs more focus in a specific playstyle; it tries to do bulky offense/stall with some mons and is very offensive with others, and as a result you lack solid answers to some really important threats. Rotom-W can cripple Venomoth or Tangrowth with Trick, can burn Excadrill and Mawile with WoW, and can Volt Switch out of your Infestation shenanigans. Volt-Turn in general is problematic, as you rely pretty heavily on making your opponent stay still to set up with Venomoth. Genesect is running rampant lately and threatens to tear large portions of your team to shreds, with Talonflame being your best answer. Other turners/special attackers that I would think prove problematic for this team include Greninja, special Aegislash, Latios, Heatran, Charizard-Y and Mega Lucario. In particular, you have 4 mons weak to Fire, and although Kingdra and Talonflame resist it, neither is particularly bulky and cannot afford to mispredict. Status moves may miss more often against Venomoth and Tangrowth probably doesn't particularly care about a lot of status conditions, but burns, toxic and paralysis are all major problems for the team. As you focus on boosting, you also need to keep in mind phazers like Skarmory.

If you wish to focus on using Venomoth to pass Quiver Dance, I'd suggest playing with your team format to better support him while getting him another really good recipient. If not, I'd probably focus on building your team around Kingdra and/or Mawile.

 

[Surge's Exeggutor]

It's interesting, to be sure. How's it been working on PS?

Regardless, I have a few suggestions.

First off, I feel your team could have better Quiver Pass recipients. Everyone more or less enjoys the boosts to SpDef and Speed, but the only one who can take advantage of the SpA boost is Kingdra, who, due to the crit-boosting set you're running, is liable to Draco Meteor them away anyway. While the crits ignore SpA drops below x1, you'll still lose the 1.5x power advantage or higher after a Draco Meteor. That's not to say that Kingdra isn't a good idea, because it's pretty worthwhile. Maybe some other members could be changed to benefit more though? Just a thought.

Looking at each member individually:

• Venomoth: It would seem to me that this lead doesn't fare well against some significant other leads/threats in general. It's certainly Trick-bait from things like Rotom-W, and can be Taunted pretty hard as well. Top-tier leads like Rotom-W, Greninja, Genesect and others can just U-Turn or Volt Switch out of Infestation (or immediately,) and switch to an appropriate answer. Even with investment it's far from bulky, and plenty of things can still outspeed it even with 252 EV's in Speed and a Timid nature. While the set you have is theoretically good, I see it faltering against faster, harder hitting threats and opponents that don't lead with Smeargle or Klekfi. Venomoth as a whole rewards your team greatly when it does work out, but I think it needs more support and better recipients to be used to it's fullest. Whether you decide to replace him or build the team around him is up to you.
• Tangrowth- First thing I notice is that you're using a second Sleep Powder mon. With Sleep Clause in effect you have two Pokemon that rely on the threat of Sleep to keep certain enemies at bay, but you can only sleep one of them. That 75% accuracy is also shaky. Nonetheless, Knock Off and Leech Seed are always appreciated. I'd think that Infestation more often than not doesn't trap anything worthwhile. If it's something that can't take on Tangrowth I doubt they're staying in to let you get that Infestation off. Also of note is that he cannot take special hits at all. Even if you put investment into his SpDef, threats like Greninja, Genesect and Latios will still scare him out, and worse yet, your team lacks an adequate switch-in. Kingdra may take resisted hits to a degree, but your other "bulky," mon, Excadrill, can't reliably switch into powerful special moves when he needs to take another hit immediately after. Like Venomoth, he also attracts Trick and, to a lesser degree, Taunt. He doesn't synergize defensively with Venomoth, as he shares many of the same weaknesses and has similar special bulk as a whole. You may want to reconsider this team member.
• Kingdra- Wonderful thing about this guy is that he doesn't need much in terms of support. He can certainly punch holes in teams with little effort when set up, especially with a Quiver Dance in tow. As for your nature, it depends on what you want to outspeed before and after a boost. Without a speed boost, Timid speed-ties neutral base 98's (Hydreigon,) and outspeeds all Heatran, Max Speed Dragonite, Mamoswine, Kyurem-B without max investment, Togekiss, and a whole host of other Pokemon. After a single Quiver Dance, Timid Kingdra outspeeds Jolly Max Speed Gyarados, Max Speed Accelgor (so basically the unboosted metagame, though Modest Kingdra still gets the jump on base 130's like Jolteon with a boost,) and all +1 Dragonite. If you're really worried about outspeeding those threats, go Timid. More of the threats before a boost sound worrisome to me, so I'd look more closely into those. You can certainly get away with Modest with a boost though.
• Excadrill- This guy's surprisingly bulky with an Assault Vest, but not so much that he can switch into a lot of special moves. Many threats like Greninja, Genesect and Latios still threaten to 2HKO him, so he has to be very wary on the way into the battlefield. If you're careful with him I can see him being a potential boon to the team, and I'm interested in hearing more about how he plays. I definitely wouldn't use him as an answer to most special attackers though.
  
• Mawile- She's a lot of fun to play with. My main concern with her is that she has a hard time switching into many hits (primarily special attackers,) and functions very similarly to Talonflame. Both excel as late-game attackers, with Mawile being more mind-blowingly powerful while Talonflame has reliable priority and speed on his side. Mawile is also harder to use, so keep this in mind. Keep Iron Head over Fire Fang. You need a reliable STAB option, and I've been let down by Play Rough before.
• Talonflame- That sure is Talonflame. Not much else to say. Just keep in mind some of his redundancies with Mawile and figure out whether or not it's worth having two late-game mons.

All of the weaknesses that you state definitely hold true, I just really don't know how to fix them. After trying the team out I got up to mid 1700s. So there is potential. I've been having fun trying to find different than the norm teams. I know that I need a spinner, a late game sweeper and some other coverage mons. Do you have any suggestions on who would fill those needs? Thank you very much for the criticism though, it is extremely helpful

 

[Seiterman]

All of the weaknesses that you state definitely hold true, I just really don't know how to fix them. After trying the team out I got up to mid 1700s. So there is potential. I've been having fun trying to find different than the norm teams. I know that I need a spinner, a late game sweeper and some other coverage mons. Do you have any suggestions on who would fill those needs? Thank you very much for the criticism though, it is extremely helpful

I just elaborated a bit on the weaknesses, but I'd be happy to help you patch up some of your teams issues. There's nothing wrong with non-standard teams, and I'm sure the potential is there.

First off, I want you to choose who to base your team around. Hell, you can even decide to split it into two separate teams if you so desire; one based around getting those Quiver Dances and one around just going to town with Kingdra and Mawile.

 

[Surge's Exeggutor]

I like the infestation/pass
So I guess a venomoth/kingdra core

I don't know why but I want to find a way to incorporate some trapping set up, whether that be with venomoth or some other mon.

I only really used mawile because I feel I need a mega to compete

 

[Seiterman]

Megas are great, but not necessary. Honestly though I might recommend one to keep Knock Off from ruining you. Have you thought about Mega Venusaur as a replacement for Tangrowth and Mawile? Better overall bulk than Tangrowth, Knock Off won't cripple it, still has a lot of the same options as Tangrowth and I'm sure a few others, etc.? There are other ways to punch holes in the opposition than a heavy-hitting mega like Mawile (though I do love using her.)

 

[Surge's Exeggutor]

Alright i took your suggestions and I added the fact that poke bank will be open in a couple of days...
I kept the venomoth and kingdra

added...

Excadrill
Ability: Sand Rush
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock

This guy adds a hazard to my team as well as a Spinner. Pretty helpful if you ask me. Iron Head allows me a secondary STAB attack that crushes fairies and a plethora of other pokes. Earthquake for a primary stab that hits other mons hard.

Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Iron Fist
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Close Combat
- Overheat
- Thunder Punch
- U-turn

I have not figured out infernape yet but this is the set i went with. It allows it to grab a nice little speed boost. Im thinking about taking scarf off as he could be a great recipient of my quiver dances without being locked into a move. He is pretty frail though, I almost feel like he could use an Assault vest.
All help would be appreciated.

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Bold Nature
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis
- Toxic

I chose stall venusaur because I have enough attackers on my team. Leech Seed + toxic does good damage anyway. Pretty much self explanatory here

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon

Magnezone is a nice little trapper himself, not to mention a pretty bulky electric type. Not sure If i want to stick with him though.

 

[Seiterman]

Alright i took your suggestions and I added the fact that poke bank will be open in a couple of days...
I kept the venomoth and kingdra

added...

Excadrill
Ability: Sand Rush
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock

This guy adds a hazard to my team as well as a Spinner. Pretty helpful if you ask me. Iron Head allows me a secondary STAB attack that crushes fairies and a plethora of other pokes. Earthquake for a primary stab that hits other mons hard.

Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Iron Fist
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Close Combat
- Overheat
- Thunder Punch
- U-turn

I have not figured out infernape yet but this is the set i went with. It allows it to grab a nice little speed boost. Im thinking about taking scarf off as he could be a great recipient of my quiver dances without being locked into a move. He is pretty frail though, I almost feel like he could use an Assault vest.
All help would be appreciated.

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Bold Nature
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis
- Toxic

I chose stall venusaur because I have enough attackers on my team. Leech Seed + toxic does good damage anyway. Pretty much self explanatory here

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon

Magnezone is a nice little trapper himself, not to mention a pretty bulky electric type. Not sure If i want to stick with him though.

I'd recommend a few tweaks, but I think your team looks more solid. Here's what I'd say:

• Excadrill- Your new set is more conventional than the old one (not that that's either good or bad.) You can definitely take advantage of the switches he causes to get Stealth Rocks up. Since you aren't running Sand Stream yourself though, I'd change his ability to Mold Breaker. Hitting Rotom-W with Earthquake is invaluable, as is hitting random stuff like Gengar and Latios on the switch.
  
• Infernape- This guy's an uncommon sight in OU these days since he lost his niche as a sun-based wallbreaker. Before that, he was a mixed sweeper in DPP OU, with the capability to run stuff like Nasty Plot and lead sets. I'd think your best bet with Infernape is as a mixed attacker using the set you posted, though without a Choice Scarf. That item in general is seeing less use right now due to the prevalence of priority, and Infernape in particular has his work cut out for him in that department. Weaknesses to Aqua Jet and Talonflame's Brave Bird as well as neutralities to Vacuum Wave, Mach Punch and Extremespeed make him very susceptible to being unceremoniously KO'd, especially with those defenses. Unfortunately, an Assault Vest does little to rectify the issue, as it still leaves him with substandard bulk and less attacking power. I'd give him a Life Orb, personally. As a mixed attacker he desperately needs the boost to both sides of the offensive spectrum, and the loss in bulk isn't too big a deal for a Pokemon with defenses as paper-thin as Infernape's. You can also change his EV spread to 180/76/252 to make the most of those offenses. Overall this is the only member I'm really iffy about (just due to priority being omnipresent and some major threats like the Lati twins running amok,) but I'd like to see how he works when you give the team some use.
• Venusaur- I think you got him down-pat. I'd switch Overgrow for Chlorophyll though. It'll rarely make a difference, but the doubled speed under sun counts on the turn that you mega-evolve, so that's something more than whatever Overgrow can offer.
• Magnezone- Unless I'm mistaken I don't think there's anything important to outspeed with Timid. I'd switch to a Modest Nature with 172 HP/ 252 SpA/ 84 Spe. It lets you outspeed minimum speed Skarmory and Scizor, while I don't think Timid really gives you anything better to outspeed.

I think your new teammates look a good deal better, though I think a better Pokemon could go over Infernape. Still, I'd do the few minor changes I suggested in terms of EV's, natures and abilities and play around on the ladder for a while. Come back and post how you did here. If your new team works out, then wonderful. If you feel like any members aren't picking up the slack, I'd be happy to help you fix them up. =D

 

[Surge's Exeggutor]

Thanks a lot for the help, you suggestions seem to be spot on. With poke bank coming out, I don't think my gimmicky team will be able to fair against the legends that'll be floating around. I'll probably have to change a bunch of stuff. But thanks again

 

[Seiterman]

Thanks a lot for the help, you suggestions seem to be spot on. With poke bank coming out, I don't think my gimmicky team will be able to fair against the legends that'll be floating around. I'll probably have to change a bunch of stuff. But thanks again

Every team has weaknesses, and you'll never be able to cover everything. That's just an inherent part of Pokemon. Part of using a team well is being able to identify those weaknesses so you can prepare for them in battle, and tweak your team should it prove to be too crippling a weakness against too common a foe.

I think what you have now is pretty solid, even with stuff like the genies coming back. Play with it a bit on the Pokebank OU ladder on Showdown. Like I said, I'm happy to help if you feel the need to change more, but we have a nice framework and some good mons to work with now.