Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[MQJinx]

I say Mega Blastoise is B-Rank worthy. It easily fits into bulky offense teams that need hazards out of their field. It has wide coverage in moves like Aura Sphere, STAB Water Pulse and Dark Pulse (which 2HKOS Shield Aegislash and Deoxys-D), and can surprise "checks" to the standard set with an unexpected Scald burn or Ice Beam on Dragonite.

Starmie for B-Rank. It has a negligible power loss from Mega Blastoise in exchange for more speed, the ability to hold any item, BoltBeam coverage, decent recovery, and can surprise Mega Venusaur that attempt to wall it with a Psyshock.

Highlight Donphan's placement in E-Rank. Outclassed by Excadrill in the offensive department because the mole can actually beat Mega Pinsir, outspeed and OHKO non-Balloon Heatran and Rotom-W that's uninvested and without a scarf, handle dragons, and 2HKO Trevenant and OHKO Kyurem-B after rocks. Excadrill also has Swords Dance and can tank hits with an Assault Vest, or force EQ users to waste a turn popping an Air Balloon. M-Blastoise and Starmie also have wider coverage, and Blastoise can even scare off Ghosts with Dark Pulse. Donphan also lacks recovery (which most Defog users and Starmie have), suffers from 4MSS, basically needs Earthquake/Rapid Spin/Ice Shard/Stealth Rock, loses to most SR setters, and is walled by Mega Venusaur. Yet it's 38th in usage in last month's statistics. That's higher than Deoxys-S.

 

[Punchshroom]

Starmie for B-Rank. It has a negligible power loss from Mega Blastoise in exchange for more speed, the ability to hold any item, BoltBeam coverage, decent recovery, and can surprise Mega Venusaur that attempt to wall it with a Psyshock.

Highlight Donphan's placement in E-Rank. Outclassed by Excadrill in the offensive department because the mole can actually beat Mega Pinsir, outspeed and OHKO non-Balloon Heatran and Rotom-W that's uninvested and without a scarf, handle dragons, and 2HKO Trevenant and OHKO Kyurem-B after rocks. Excadrill also has Swords Dance and can tank hits with an Assault Vest, or force EQ users to waste a turn popping an Air Balloon. M-Blastoise and Starmie also have wider coverage, and Blastoise can even scare off Ghosts with Dark Pulse. Donphan also lacks recovery (which most Defog users and Starmie have), suffers from 4MSS, basically needs Earthquake/Rapid Spin/Ice Shard/Stealth Rock, loses to most SR setters, and is walled by Mega Venusaur. Yet it's 38th in usage in last month's statistics. That's higher than Deoxys-S.

I'm not sure Starmie is comparable to Mega Blastoise: one has a fast spin, while the other has a bulky spin. Starmie does boast great speed and coverage which can allow it to sweep when not spinning, which is likely better than Mega Blastoise tanking hits but not having any recovery.

As for Donphan, there's no doubt Excadrill is better, but I'd be hesitant to put Donphan in E right away. Donphan can tank hits even better than Excadrill can if equipped with Assault Vest, using its physical defense to tank physical moves in Ground and Fighting. Donphan also has moves such as Knock Off and Odor Sleuth (and EQ for Aegislash) to combat spinblockers so it isn't helpless against them, and has coverage options in Seed Bomb and Head Smash to keep foes such as Rotom-W and Charizard-Y from switching in freely. Its low speed (slower than all spinblockers) and special bulk make spinning difficult however, and it does suffer 4MSS, but at least it can spin much better than, say, Forretress or Avalugg. C Rank imo.

 

[Photofluid]

I say Mega Blastoise is B-Rank worthy. It easily fits into bulky offense teams that need hazards out of their field. It has wide coverage in moves like Aura Sphere, STAB Water Pulse and Dark Pulse (which 2HKOS Shield Aegislash and Deoxys-D), and can surprise "checks" to the standard set with an unexpected Scald burn or Ice Beam on Dragonite.

Starmie for B-Rank. It has a negligible power loss from Mega Blastoise in exchange for more speed, the ability to hold any item, BoltBeam coverage, decent recovery, and can surprise Mega Venusaur that attempt to wall it with a Psyshock.

Highlight Donphan's placement in E-Rank. Outclassed by Excadrill in the offensive department because the mole can actually beat Mega Pinsir, outspeed and OHKO non-Balloon Heatran and Rotom-W that's uninvested and without a scarf, handle dragons, and 2HKO Trevenant and OHKO Kyurem-B after rocks. Excadrill also has Swords Dance and can tank hits with an Assault Vest, or force EQ users to waste a turn popping an Air Balloon. M-Blastoise and Starmie also have wider coverage, and Blastoise can even scare off Ghosts with Dark Pulse. Donphan also lacks recovery (which most Defog users and Starmie have), suffers from 4MSS, basically needs Earthquake/Rapid Spin/Ice Shard/Stealth Rock, loses to most SR setters, and is walled by Mega Venusaur. Yet it's 38th in usage in last month's statistics. That's higher than Deoxys-S.

Rank-E may be too radical, Donphan has access to ice shard, play rough and knock off, and is not weak against fight/fire/earth, all of these are common offensive typings. It also possesses better sheer physical bulkiness than Excadrill. 4MSS may exists, but SR is not actually a mandatory requirement this gen, so I guess it is not that severe. I would put it C at worst.

I personally also find it really funny that it receives so much usage though.

 

[rachet67]

Imo Celebi's biggest downfall is the high usage of U-turn as well as Psychic being the crappiest type in this meta. When a supposed-to-be sturdy mon is severely dented by an un-STAB'd pivot move, you know there's a problem.

Though I am quite aware that this has always been an issue, this gen with the release of Genesect, the Kami trio, as well as Dark and Ghost types being buffed offensively, I think this gen is much more harsher to Celebi.

I'd settle a C/B- for Celebi.

While U-turn is a huge problem for celebi, its typing isn't bad in all respects, as it gives it a fighting and water resists like venesaur, but also a ground resist. Because its a weird typing it can still come in on a lot of mons and use its unique support moves. Also being one of the few pokemon that doesn't fear rotor-w, the most common pokemon, certainly gives it a reasonable niche. I'm still thinking B, despite the problems it has.

 

[Sturdynips]

Just to chime in on the Salamence discussion, I used it quite extensively when I was writing the analysis so I feel as though I have a good feel of its current viability. I'll be brief as this has already been discussed quite a bit, but this is what I've found:
Scarf is junk. The primary reason for Salamence being A rank in gen 5 was the Scarf + Moxie combo. Obviously, Fairies make the once-spammable Outrage much more dangerous for the user, and in the matches where I used Scarf Mence it never pulled off a late-game clean just because of the prevalence of Azumarill, Talonflame, Aegislash etc.

MixMence is not too bad, but it really needs LO and that along with SR means that Mence is worn down so easily to be revenge-killed by every other OU Pokemon with a Scarf, decently strong priority (we all know priority is everywhere) or naturally faster which isn't too difficult considering base 100 speed is not very impressive any more.

DD is Mence's best set thanks to Intimidate. Now, the fact that Mega Zard X is bulkier, immune to burn, takes neutral damage from Ice Shard, has better coverage with its dual STAB and even has higher Special Attack means that it completely outclasses Salamence as a Dragon Dance sweeper. It's already been established that DD is Salamence's best set; a set that is:

completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.

This is the definition of a C Rank Pokemon.

 

[RP2865]

Just to chime in on the Salamence discussion, I used it quite extensively when I was writing the analysis so I feel as though I have a good feel of its current viability. I'll be brief as this has already been discussed quite a bit, but this is what I've found:
Scarf is junk. The primary reason for Salamence being A rank in gen 5 was the Scarf + Moxie combo. Obviously, Fairies make the once-spammable Outrage much more dangerous for the user, and in the matches where I used Scarf Mence it never pulled off a late-game clean just because of the prevalence of Azumarill, Talonflame, Aegislash etc.

MixMence is not too bad, but it really needs LO and that along with SR means that Mence is worn down so easily to be revenge-killed by every other OU Pokemon with a Scarf, decently strong priority (we all know priority is everywhere) or naturally faster which isn't too difficult considering base 100 speed is not very impressive any more.

DD is Mence's best set thanks to Intimidate. Now, the fact that Mega Zard X is bulkier, immune to burn, takes neutral damage from Ice Shard, has better coverage with its dual STAB and even has higher Special Attack means that it completely outclasses Salamence as a Dragon Dance sweeper. It's already been established that DD is Salamence's best set; a set that is:

This is the definition of a C Rank Pokemon.

This is what I've found: Scarf is not junk. Outrage is really a terrible idea on a choice set now, and I don't think it was ever a great choice to begin with. I have taken the liberty of replacing it with Dragon Claw. In the matches where I used Scar Mence it has pulled off sweeps (I think 2 or 3) while once I even got a sweep with Scarf Moxie Krookodile in OU on a UU team!

 

[Reymedy]

Oh boy.
There are a lot of things I'd change but let's stick to some main points :

Venusaur-Mega in A+ : I think putting it in S is a bit too much. I mean, the pokemon is good, it walls and all but it's also quite easy to set-up on it. The offensive presence it has most of the time is really dim and bar Leeching/Knocking it doesn't do that much. So yea, the fact that it has troubles threatening other pokemons is a pretty big downside for something in S. Solid A (so A+) though.

Mega Medicham in B : Come on, Aegislash is everywhere, Medicham CANT make it to A in this situation. Now to add insult to the injury, Talonflame and Pinsir are probably the biggest physical threats at the moment. And guess what ? They shit on Medicham. So I'm not saying that this pokemon is "bad", but this ain't Medicham time.

Hippodown in A : I didnt see it on the list and in my opinion that's quite a shame. Not only it works really well with Excadrill, but it does also check a ton of threats. I've tried EQ/StoneEdge instead of the more classic EQ/IceFang and it does wonders. It can take Physical versions of Luke if you're Impish, but also Pinsir at +2, it's not even 3HKO'd by Talonflame CB moves. You can take CharX Outrage just fine (not 2HKO'd with Leftovers). Now you can play it SpD if you want, since it does perfectly counter Aegislash for instance.
252+ SpA Spooky Plate Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Hippowdon: 186-220 (44.2 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
that's with a neutral nature, not even careful.
252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Hippowdon: 180-212 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
still neutral nature

And yea, obviously, Sand is still really helpful when you're facing Rain teams, Charizard Y, or Venusaur (for Synthesis). Honneslty, I could go on for hours but it seems clear to me that Hippo should be in this tier.

 

[rachet67]

Can we not talk about Mega Venesaur for a little while, just so we can discuss other pokemon? There are at least 10 pages dedicated to mega vensaur, and you could spend your entire day reading flaming. Pretty much all the points on it have already been made as well.

Edit: Remedy, I didn't mean to criticize you posting about mega vensaur, I just wanted to tell you that it has been brought up extensively in previous pages in case you hadn't read them. Sorry if it came across in the wrong way.

 

[Salt]

I would like to nominate Crawdaunt for B- Rank.

I believe Crawdaunt fills the criteria of being ranked appropriately by generally being outclassed by Azumarill due to while having more power with its stabs, but having less of a chance to take effect of said power compared to Azumarill's better bulk. While it would generally require some needed support in order to sweep better with its frail typing, it is powerful enough to easily do significant damage or take out opponents completely, thus allowing it to be ranked so.

I made a post about Crawdaunt last night that, aside from one person, went unnoticed. It made basically the same points as yours (though in more detail) and I came to the same conclusion. Crawdaunt fits the description of B very well, though it's pretty easily threatened by much of the metagame. C+/B- would be the most reasonable ranking.

Here is that post:

I noticed Crawdaunt isn't on the list, and don't feel like going through 60 pages to find if a discussion on it took place. I'd like to nominate it for somewhere in the B tier for a number of reasons. Let's look at the definition of a B-tier Pokemon:



I bolded what really jumps out at me for Crawdaunt. While it is hard for Crawdaunt to sweep because of its frailty and low speed, it is an absolutely outstanding wall breaker. Adaptability combined with 120 base Attack and Swords Dance make it so Crawdaunt needs nothing but STAB moves to do a lot of work. A lot of the changes from Gen 5 to Gen 6 benefit Crawdaunt greatly. Steel no longer resisting Dark nullifies counters like Ferrothorn. Crabhammer and Knock Off got damage buffs this gen, the one to Knock Off being extremely significant. He also got STAB priority in Aqua Jet, making this crab's wildest dreams come true. All of these factors combined make it surprisingly easy to force a switch and either set up a Swords Dance or use Knock Off which will remove the opponent's item along with doing major damage.

At first glance, Crawdaunt may draw comparisons to Azumarill. It may be seen as inferior because its much less bulky and has a worse defensive typing. A powerful Aqua Jet is really the only thing they share, though. Azumarill is more of a bulky sweeper because of its good bulk and resistances and Crawdaunt is more of a wallbreaker, because of its sheer power and strong STAB moves, though a Crawdaunt sweep isn't impossible. One may argue that Azumarill is even a better sweeper, but it really isn't. Consider these calcs:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 166-196 (43.2 - 51%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 224-264 (58.3 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(Ignore the fact that it's Abomasnow, as I'm just trying to illustrate the difference in damage and Abomasnow is the first thing that pops up in the calculator.)

As you can see, the difference in damage in both scenarios isn't too different. The fact that there's only a 15% damage difference with Crawdaunt at +2 vs Azumarill at +6 really says something about them. Plus, Azumarill will only have 75% of its bulk in a best case scenario (Sitrus Berry, no hazards) which severely hampers one of Azumarill's main advantages over Crawdaunt. Plus, Azumarill can typically only Belly Drum once a match because of the loss of Health, but Crawdaunt can come in to Swords Dance and wallbreak/sweep multiple times in a match. Azumarill sometimes might be a better choice due to better bulk and typing, but Crawdaunt plays differently most of the time.

Crawdaunt has a solid niche, is only partially outclassed by Azumarill, and is indeed extremely dangerous. This is why B rank seems appropriate for it.

 

[Judgement Blade]

DD is Mence's best set thanks to Intimidate. Now, the fact that Mega Zard X is bulkier, immune to burn, takes neutral damage from Ice Shard, has better coverage with its dual STAB and even has higher Special Attack means that it completely outclasses Salamence as a Dragon Dance sweeper. It's already been established that DD is Salamence's best set; a set that is:

This is the definition of a C Rank Pokemon.

It's the same thing as Amoongus vs Megasaur. Of course they're outclassed, you're comparing them to a damn Mega (even then, that's comparing two different things". It would be like someone saying "Yeah man, Mega Gengar outclasses Gothitelle as a Shadow Tag user" or "Why would you use Volcarona when you could use Megazard Y?" Yes, the megas are more powerful than what you would consider their counterparts most of the time, because that's their thing. You use your one mega slot for a very powerful threat. Am I saying Salamence is actually good this gen? Hell no, he doesn't get the right coverage to deal with fairies, on top of the meta not being too kind to his 100 speed and priority being everywhere. But don't cite the fact that a mega outclasses him as his downfall. As a whole, megas outclass a lot of things, and if that's the criteria for being dropped to C rank, then it should probably be reevaluated.

And yes, I'm aware one of those was an extreme example lol.

 

[Prosecutor Godot]

I'm not sure Starmie is comparable to Mega Blastoise: one has a fast spin, while the other has a bulky spin. Starmie does boast great speed and coverage which can allow it to sweep when not spinning, which is likely better than Mega Blastoise tanking hits but not having any recovery.

As for Donphan, there's no doubt Excadrill is better, but I'd be hesitant to put Donphan in E right away. Donphan can tank hits even better than Excadrill can if equipped with Assault Vest, using its physical defense to tank physical moves in Ground and Fighting. Donphan also has moves such as Knock Off and Odor Sleuth (and EQ for Aegislash) to combat spinblockers so it isn't helpless against them, and has coverage options in Seed Bomb and Head Smash to keep foes such as Rotom-W and Charizard-Y from switching in freely. Its low speed (slower than all spinblockers) and special bulk make spinning difficult however, and it does suffer 4MSS, but at least it can spin much better than, say, Forretress or Avalugg. C Rank imo.

Donphan is pretty terrible. It needs Seed Bomb to even touch the most common pokemon in OU. It needs Stone Edge/Head Smash to not give Mega Charizard Y a free Fire Blast. It needs Roar to not be complete setup bait for a variety of things. It's Ice Shard is possibly the weakest priority in all of OU, with a 252+ Atk adamant Ice Shard missing the OHKO on Salamence of all things. Let's forget running Donphan without Earthquake, because it just doesn't happen. It's forced to pick between Ice Shard, Stealth Rock, Roar, Rock type coverage, Seed Bomb, Rapid Spin and Knock Off. Depending on what you're forced to not use with Donphan, it's walled by something else.

Putting the awful 4MSS aside, that leaves the question; what does Donphan bring to the table? A sort of powerful Earthquake? It can tank attacks better than Excadrill, sure? Why would you use Excadrill as a tank? It's not that bulky to begin with, it's high HP is rounded out by it's low defenses. Is it supposed to check Mega-Lucario better since it's not weak to Fighting? Well let's switch it in.

252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 198-234 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

...Woops.

Also Hippowdon is bulkier all around, has Sand Stream, has reliable recovery and can do almost everything that Donphan can do except for Rapid Spin. Apart from wanting Rapid Spin, not wanting sandstorm buffering all your pokemon (or think Seed Bomb Donphan is all the rage for dealing with Rotom-W) then why not use Hippowdon?

Landorus-T. Excadrill. Gliscor. Hippowdon. Mamoswine. There are so many Ground types that can do the same things Donphan can do, and more. There are much better choices for Spinners in Starmie, Excadrill and Blastoise-Mega. It should be D-Rank if ranked at all. There doesn't need to be a 10 page discussion on Donphan. It's a mediocre monotype that has no niche and horrible 4MSS.

 

[King]

Diggersby is not a C+ pokemon. I'm sorry. But it just isn't. I would like for discussions about it being a B level pokemon to happen. Thanks

 

[Pipotchi]

Surely people dont actually run adamant on mega lucario? Kinda a huge waste of a pretty importantly placed speed stat

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 180-214 (46.8 - 55.7%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[SergantGold]

Surely people dont actually run adamant on mega lucario? Kinda a huge waste of a pretty importantly placed speed stat

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 180-214 (46.8 - 55.7%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You get out sped by some pokemon that are slower than you with adamant. Adamant is not a great option over Jolly/Timid

 

[Star]

On the topic of Hippowdon, I agree with Remedy's idea of A rank. The amount of threats Hippowdon can counter is simply ridiculous. In addition to Remedy's list Heatran is incredibly common this generation and Specially Defensive Hippowdon is the just about the best Heatran switch in in this metagame. It can just tank whatever hit and Slack Off as Heatran is forced out. Physically Defensive Hippowdon is also able to beat a big threat in Assault Vest Conkeldurr which is able to muscle past many Pokemon with great bulk and power. Also Hippowdon gets access to the best move in the game, Stealth Rock and is able to phaze Pokemon that try to set up on it with Whirlwind. With correct prediction he can Whirlwind when his counters come in and just build up more SR damage. For all these things, Hippowdon deserves an A rank.

 

[Reymedy]

Can we not talk about Mega Venesaur for a little while, just so we can discuss other pokemon? There are at least 10 pages dedicated to mega vensaur, and you could spend your entire day reading flaming. Pretty much all the points on it have already been made as well.

Oh I'm sorry to write 3 lines about it without reading 62 pages probably filled with crazy posts adding a lot to the thread like talking about a pokemon's natures.
Talking about content. If you want to talk about something different why don't you do it yourself instead of picking on my post ? Seriously.

Now just for the sake of keeping this post relevant, and to not fall in the ridiculously bad posting habbits I witnessed :
Politoed should be put somewhere. I'd say A because Rain teams are still playable and IMHO viable. That said, the pokemon in itself is still crap, but Drizzle maintains him in the meta and the "niche" is big enough to be the must-have for whole viable team playstyle.

PS : I'm not gonna bother posting again here, it's too much of a hassle. And I knew it.
Disclaimer : I didnt read the 62 pages, if Toed was brought before, deal with it, ignore my post and keep on with your interesting debate.

 

[Triskili]

Thanks for the replies (I'm on my phone so I can't really quote everyone that quoted me as quickly compared to my computer xD )! I kinda think that having Mence as a cleaner/late-game sweeper is possible if you destroy the fairy threats. Like I said, the dragon needs support. I used a Scizor along with Salamence to put fairies in check due to bullet punch making dents on teams. It's possible to have a sweep but not sweeps like KO'ing 4-5 pokemon at once with Outrage (which is suicide to Mence xD ). MixMence seem kinda interesting if you have Intimidate since you can pair that with regular Mawile, use intimidate again on a physical attacker and get a free sword dance with her as she mega evolves. :b

Seeing mix results ranging from C+ to B+. At least it's around the B-ish range. That sounds about right. ._.

I've tried Hydreigon before and having flash cannon as a check to fairies is kinda good in a sense that it shows some kind of threat to the fairies. Scarf/Specs (more Specs than Scarf because other dragons can utilize Scarf better (like Salamence!)) than would be decent but flash cannon is not that great of a move since Drei is not a steel type and having 4x weakness to fairies causes an issue with him dealing with revenge killers with fairy moves....but who would lock into Cannon? With the variety of moves Drei has, it will give the opponent a guessing game on what attacks he has. Makes Drei more of a hit-and-run pokemon than a sweeper. A mix Drei makes him a bit weaker on the special attack side (similar to Mence) but it does give coverage and having roost up there makes him more survivable and keeps him on the field for an extra turn or two I too think that Drei belongs in the upper B/lower A. ^^

 

[Pipotchi]

I think Rotom-H deserves a ranking, despite people completely WASH(im funny)ing him over. He only has 2 weaknesses and his role as a pivot is amplified by being the only(?) pokemon in ou to be able to absorb both burns and paralysis for his team. Defensively his typing is actually pretty strong and he can wall talonflame just like rotom-w (although he also is immune to the will-o-wisp sets too). He also beats charizard Y with his defensive set, but also has the option of going offensive with two very good offensive STABs- in fact he can run all the same sets as Rotom-W. He is also wearing oven mitts which I feel should be reflected in his ranking.
I'd say he slots in somewhere around B+. He's a quite different mon from Rotom-W, but he has the downsides of not being able to be picked with Rotom-W, stealth rock weakness, lack of recovery if not using the rest set, and tendency to switch due to overheat's negative side effects. I guess he has more similarities to the air balloon heatran variations, but trades access to stealth rock (and resistance to it) for arguably better secondary offensive stab and volt switch, as well as trick.

EDIT: PLUS it has the advantage of fitting very nicely in a dual core with mega venusaur which has to be good for something

 

[Scytha Gang]

I'd say Rotom-H slots in somewhere around B+.

Although he has a SR weakness, and he's outclassed by Rotom-W, you do have a point. Immunity to 2 status moves is major at times. Plus he can wall Talon like you said, and beat Zard Y in a match up. Although I wouldn't necessarily rank him as him as you would, since it would be hard to use Rotom-H, knowing that Rotom-W is better, and since Pokemon like Heatran and Terrakion would give Rotom-H more trouble than Rotom-W, I would probably see him at a B-.

 

[Photofluid]

Although he has a SR weakness, and he's outclassed by Rotom-W, you do have a point. Immunity to 2 status moves is major at times. Plus he can wall Talon like you said, and beat Zard Y in a match up. Although I wouldn't necessarily rank him as him as you would, since it would be hard to use Rotom-H, knowing that Rotom-W is better, and since Pokemon like Heatran and Terrakion would give Rotom-H more trouble than Rotom-W, I would probably see him at a B-.

I think people actually use Rotom-H for a rather different purpose than that of Rotom-W. Its unique typing gives it a bunch of resistances and most notably, resisting both voltturn and can use its own. It also absorbs both WoW and Thunder Wave as stated. All these are just at the cost of being weak to water and rock, and the ability to check TF is still there. So honestly I think it deserves a little bit higher when Rotom-W is as high as A+, I say B+ would be better.

 

[Scytha Gang]

Like I said, the dragon needs support. I used a Scizor along with Salamence to put fairies in check due to bullet punch making dents on teams. It's possible to have a sweep but not sweeps like KO'ing 4-5 pokemon at once with Outrage (which is suicide to Mence xD ). MixMence seem kinda interesting if you have Intimidate since you can pair that with regular Mawile, use intimidate again on a physical attacker and get a free sword dance with her as she mega evolves. :b

Seeing mix results ranging from C+ to B+. At least it's around the B-ish range. That sounds about right. ._.

I agree with you! Like you said, it is harder to sweep with Mence, however, he just needs more support. Mence isn't a bad Pokemon, it's just that he's outclassed by A Ranked Pokemon such as Garchomp, Dragonite, and Latios. Unlike them, Mence needs more support to sweep, since he's one of the Dragon's that suffers the most from the "Fairies". And by now we can all agree that "Outrage" is useless now for Mence. It really hurts him. Given that all his threats are gone, he can have a field day. So I'll rank him around a B.

I've tried Hydreigon before and having flash cannon as a check to fairies is kinda good in a sense that it shows some kind of threat to the fairies. Scarf/Specs (more Specs than Scarf because other dragons can utilize Scarf better (like Salamence!)) than would be decent but flash cannon is not that great of a move since Drei is not a steel type and having 4x weakness to fairies causes an issue with him dealing with revenge killers with fairy moves....but who would lock into Cannon? With the variety of moves Drei has, it will give the opponent a guessing game on what attacks he has. Makes Drei more of a hit-and-run pokemon than a sweeper. A mix Drei makes him a bit weaker on the special attack side (similar to Mence) but it does give coverage and having roost up there makes him more survivable and keeps him on the field for an extra turn or two I too think that Drei belongs in the upper B/lower A. ^^

I have used a Mixed Hydreigon before, and it worked well for me, a Special Walls like Blissey would not appreciate a Superpower. However, Drei against fairies is never a good matchup. Even with his massive SpA, the majority of fairies in the metagame have massive SpD.

252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 154-182 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 204-240 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

As we can see here, even with a Choice Specs and Flash Cannon, Drei risks the chance of not taking it out, and getting killed in return. Now against Fairies with less SpD, Drei will prove more successful. Anyways, overall, Drei is a good Pokemon, however, in a metagame run by Genescect, Mega Lucario, and Fairies, Drei's potential has been limited. He is also outclassed by other Dragons such as Latios. I would Rank him at B.

 

[Niftyyyy]

I would like to nominate Mew for at least B+to A Rank

Mew was UU last gen, but he was still capable of competing in higher tiers due to his sheer versatility and unpredictability. Although capable of running other sets for support, I would like to mainly touch on one of Mew's new found roles.

The 6th generation has given Mew a defog buff as an addition to its already huge support move-pool.
It is one of only a select group of pokemon that can clear the field of both hazards and screens, then proceed to set up hazards for its own team. Hazard setting and removing makes up a crucial part of most good teams, and Mew can do both.

Mew's typing is its biggest downfall defensively, however he makes up for it with impressive 100/100/100 defenses and reliable recovery in the form of soft-boiled. He is capable of using will-o-wisp to cripple physical attackers, taunt to prevent set up or if an opening arises he can even pass boosts on to team mates.
The inclusion of Mew in a team allows for more versatility in team building and in my opinion is very worthy of an analysis for these reasons.

Mew may not be that popular at the moment, however we are still in the early days of the gen 6 meta-game. I expect to see him get increased usage as teams look for an alternative to other hazard setters and removers such as Donphan, Forretress, Empoleon, Tentacruel and Avalugg. (Can't think of any others that are close to being viable). With a reliable recovery option Mew already has an advantage over these pokemon. It is also beneficial to the user of Mew because they can bluff other sets should his usage become more common.

Another thing worth mentioning is that unlike many other defog candidates he is not weak to stealth rock. It is true however that he is weak to spikes and toxic spikes, but these two moves will see decreased usage due to the need to set up multiple layers. Players who try to set up multiple layers are obviously in danger of wasting too many turns due to the ease of using defog.

Mew fits this criteria:

• "fulfil a given defensive niche" (B rank criteria)
• "Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time." (A rank criteria)

Therefore I would like to see him at least ranked from B+ to A rank.

 

[Pipotchi]

Hmm its true that Rotom-H has issues with the ever common Heatran, but he also happily deals with all common Genesect sets (an equally used pokemon), physical and special, and threatens the ohko. All genesect can do is a resisted u-turn, and rotom-h can respond with a volt switch and steal momentum.

This is due to resistances to fire, steel, ice, bug, and grass.

 

[Photofluid]

Hmm its true that Rotom-H has issues with the ever common Heatran, but he also happily deals with all common Genesect sets (an equally used pokemon), physical and special, and threatens the ohko. All genesect can do is a resisted u-turn, and rotom-h can respond with a volt switch and steal momentum.

This is due to resistances to fire, steel, ice, bug, and grass.

And thunderbolt, though less commonly seen in genesects these days, does effectively hit Heatran with neutral damage

The main issue of Rotom-H has always been SR only.

 

[Scytha Gang]

Hmm its true that Rotom-H has issues with the ever common Heatran, but he also happily deals with all common Genesect sets (an equally used pokemon), physical and special, and threatens the ohko. All genesect can do is a resisted u-turn, and rotom-h can respond with a volt switch and steal momentum.

This is due to resistances to fire, steel, ice, bug, and grass.

In a meta-game currently ran with the S-Rank Genescect, this is a very good point!