Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[Punchshroom]

I worded my post a bit poorly, I meant to emphasise that Salamence itself loses coverage on all of those pokemon i listed. It goes from being checked by Landorus-T and Balloon Tran to being checked by the pokemon i listed, which is much worse, imo

This makes no sense. If Salamence uses Hydro Pump, then it forgoes Fire Blast. As it is, Salamence is one of the only physical Dragons/sweepers who can reliably get past Forretress, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Scizor, Genesect etc. It needs Fire Blast. Using Hydro Pump makes Mence even worse, if such a thing were possible in the current meta.

Fire Blast targets: Forretress, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Scizor, Genesect
Hydro Pump targets: Landorus-T, Hippowdon, Balloon Heatran

Either targets are threatening in their own right. Salamence can still use Fire Blast if it wants, but the fact that it has the option to use Hydro Pump can give it the edge over other DDers.

 

[RP2865]

Guys, what about tangrowth?

His AV set is just ridiculous, where he runs 252/252+ in HP/sp def and has an AV. Tangrowth is very good at baiting and dealing heavy damage to would be counters and set up sweepers.

0 Atk Tangrowth Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 288-340 (96.6 - 114%) -- 75% chance to OHKO


+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 266-314 (65.8 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Meanwhile

0 Atk Tangrowth Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 160-190 (56.9 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As lucario sets up, you take him out as he hits you, then switch for the regenerator.

Even heatran cannot survive on the switch.

4 SpA Flash Fire Heatran Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 236-278 (58.4 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Tangrowth Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 272-324 (70.4 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Or let's take dragonite, attempting a WP sweep.

0 SpA Tangrowth Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 94-112 (29 - 34.5%) -- 5.2% chance to 3HKO

Then....
+3 252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tangrowth: 303-357 (75 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Tangrowth Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 188-224 (58 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Assuming you do minimum damage both turns, you've still taken out a hefty 79% enough for a revenge killer.

Greninja isn't safe either,

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 237-281 (58.6 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 234-276 (81.8 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


The best part about tangrowth is that is has a lot of coverage and good base 100/110 attacking stats and he had the fantastic knock off.

You can even go full defensive and regain access to moves like sleep powder and leech seed, in which case....
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Tangrowth: 296-350 (73.2 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

In return (enough ev's to almost guarantee an OHKO without sacrificing too much bulk)

36 Atk Tangrowth Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 296-352 (99.3 - 118.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO


Even mega gyarados can't tough through

+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Tangrowth: 168-198 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I think he deserves a B/B- rank wall

I am not sure if he is that good. For all of the calcs, you assume that you make perfect prediction, and that they switch into you, every time. Also, your EV spread seems too inconsistent to handle all of these threats in one match. For example, for mega gyarados and talonflame, you run 220+ Def. However, against heatran, you have assault vest, + SpDef, and max special defense investment. I would suggest not using assault vest, as it really hampers Tangrowth's versatility with moves like substitute, leech seed, and toxic. Accept that you can't beat Heatran, because usually those heatran will be carrying air balloon, and the only other move that hits him neutrally is stone edge.

 

[Salemance]

I am not sure if he is that good. For all of the calcs, you assume that you make perfect prediction, and that they switch into you, every time. Also, your EV spread seems too inconsistent to handle all of these threats in one match. For example, for mega gyarados and talonflame, you run 220+ Def. However, against heatran, you have assault vest, + SpDef, and max special defense investment. I would suggest not using assault vest, as it really hampers Tangrowth's versatility with moves like substitute, leech seed, and toxic. Accept that you can't beat Heatran, because usually those heatran will be carrying air balloon, and the only other move that hits him neutrally is stone edge.

The reason the EVs are inconsistent is because he is high lighting more than one set and showing what it can do against a threat that it should be walling.
And after spending enough time in the Assault Vest thread, I can say Assault Vest is almost extremely amazing on Tangrowth as he is one of the Pokemon you compare your Assault Vest user to. Is it mandatory? No, thus why he is showing off the amazing physical defense sets Tangrotwh can run.

If anything, Tangrowth now has more versatility this Gen as now he can live those special attacks that previously would have put him out of commission. Easily seems as if he can be B ranked as he is very comparable to Slowbro.

 

[RP2865]

The reason the EVs are inconsistent is because he is high lighting more than one set and showing what it can do against a threat that it should be walling.
And after spending enough time in the Assault Vest thread, I can say Assault Vest is almost extremely amazing on Tangrowth as he is one of the Pokemon you compare your Assault Vest user to. Is it mandatory? No, thus why he is showing off the amazing physical defense sets Tangrotwh can run.

If anything, Tangrowth now has more versatility this Gen as now he can live those special attacks that previously would have put him out of commission. Easily seems as if he can be B ranked as he is very comparable to Slowbro.

Well, I have just been plainly beaten by somebody who did better than me :). Yeah, I would second B for Tangrowth from what I know. I might start using it!

 

[escarlata]

I worded my post a bit poorly, I meant to emphasise that Salamence itself loses coverage on all of those pokemon i listed. It goes from being checked by Landorus-T and Balloon Tran to being checked by the pokemon i listed, which is much worse, imo

Salamence can always use Fire Blast if you want. Hydro Pump merely gives you the choice to to use it to cover different threats.

In fact, some Fire Blast targets are not even missed without Fire Blast. Skarm is not OHKO-ed even after SR; Genesect is OHKOed by +1 EQ; Forretress is pretty much non existant; Scizor hits too hard with BP to stay in. Granted Ferrothorn is a thorn in the ass without Fire Blast but other DD sweepers can handle them with little or no problem, so being able to beat it is not something only Salamence can do. On the other hand, Salamence has the choice to get past some stuff that other DD-ers cannot. In such a regard, it means that Salamence is only partially outclassed by stuff in the upper ranks, which coincides with the description for B ranks.

Besides, every other Dragon type sweeper has a usable Fire type move to get past Steels, so no smart player will switch in their Steel types before they confirm that the sweeper doesn't carry it. The thing about Salamence is that your opponent is never going to know whether it is carrying Fire Blast or Hydro Pump until they lose something to it, which puts more offensive pressure on the opponent before they switch. Having more choices is never a bad thing. Above all, this fact also allows Salamence to form a powerful Double Dragon offensive core.

And hence, it is certainly viable enough to be of B.

 

[Salemance]

Well, I have just been plainly beaten by somebody who did better than me :). Yeah, I would second B for Tangrowth from what I know. I might start using it!

Sorry if I came off as a little annoyed there. Didn't mean it if I did.
Tangrowth is good as he does his job. I say go for it as he is never one to dissappoint for me.

 

[jc104]

Tangrowth is actually really quite good. When I said in passing before that Tangrowth was probably a B rank, I was being quite conservative. With an assault vest set, tangrowth is bulkier than mega venusaur, and with 4 attacks and nearly as good attacking stats, can maintain a comparable offensive presence. It is, in my opinion, the best like-for-like replacement for venusaur if you wish to use a different mega pokemon. The best set is probably something along these lines:

Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Relaxed Nature
252 HP /4 Def/ 252 SpD
- Leaf Storm
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Ice

IMO leaf storm is actually pretty critical. Without any attacking investment, you need it to OHKO things like rotom-w and manaphy after SR, and frankly the special attack drops are hardly an issue. You switch all the time as it recovers you, and you have two respectable physical moves to fall back on. We all know how annoying knock off is, and it does pretty good damage to the likes of Lati@s, while EQ mauls heatran and HP Ice deals with Garchomp, Dragonite, Gliscor and Landorus (-T).

What the calcs the above user gave show really is not pokemon that tangrowth counters, but that Tangrowth is a hard pokemon to set up on, and that if you can get some kind of hit off on a sweeper, tangrowth can usually tank a hit and finish it off. Having sweepers set up on you is what you would normally worry about for a wall like tangrowth, particularly one that is incapable of crippling with status moves because it carries an assault vest.

The pokemon tangrowth actually does counter are many. Just looking at the beginning of this thread, you counter sweeper deoxys-S, garchomp (non-mega, most of the time), manaphy, landorus-I, Gengar, Keldeo, CB Azumarill, mega gyarados and more. You'll come out on top one-on-one against a huge majority, including aegislash, special mega lucario, heatran if it doesnt burn you, latios, thundurus, excadrill. This thing just does not die.

In conclusion, I think Tangrowth deserves to be in B rank because it is somewhat eclipsed by mega Venusaur, but belongs in B+ because it is actually really quite good.

 

[LoDart210]

Tangrowth is actually really quite good. When I said in passing before that Tangrowth was probably a B rank, I was being quite conservative. With an assault vest set, tangrowth is bulkier than mega venusaur, and with 4 attacks and nearly as good attacking stats, can maintain a comparable offensive presence. It is, in my opinion, the best like-for-like replacement for venusaur if you wish to use a different mega pokemon. The best set is probably something along these lines:

Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Relaxed Nature
252 HP /4 Def/ 252 SpD
- Leaf Storm
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Ice

IMO leaf storm is actually pretty critical. Without any attacking investment, you need it to OHKO things like rotom-w and manaphy after SR, and frankly the special attack drops are hardly an issue. You switch all the time as it recovers you, and you have two respectable physical moves to fall back on. We all know how annoying knock off is, and it does pretty good damage to the likes of Lati@s, while EQ mauls heatran and HP Ice deals with Garchomp, Dragonite, Gliscor and Landorus (-T).

What the calcs the above user gave show really is not pokemon that tangrowth counters, but that Tangrowth is a hard pokemon to set up on, and that if you can get some kind of hit off on a sweeper, tangrowth can usually tank a hit and finish it off. Having sweepers set up on you is what you would normally worry about for a wall like tangrowth, particularly one that is incapable of crippling with status moves because it carries an assault vest.

The pokemon tangrowth actually does counter are many. Just looking at the beginning of this thread, you counter sweeper deoxys-S, garchomp (non-mega, most of the time), manaphy, landorus-I, Gengar, Keldeo, CB Azumarill, mega gyarados and more. You'll come out on top one-on-one against a huge majority, including aegislash, special mega lucario, heatran if it doesnt burn you, latios, thundurus, excadrill. This thing just does not die.

In conclusion, I think Tangrowth deserves to be in B rank because it is somewhat eclipsed by mega Venusaur, but belongs in B+ because it is actually really quite good.

You're right about the walling part.

In my post I was focused on how even Pokemon you though would counter it on a switch in, can't. I forgot to include how little damage other things do to it, and how very varied and effective it's attacking move pool is.

I guess I just assumed people would see that and think that neutral moves hit for even less.

Thanks for that!

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

This will probably be lost within the stream of posts and Im not looking for wherever else this was proposed, but how in the world did Chansey move up to A-Rank? I know you pretty much c/ped Ojama's list but I didn't see a reason why it should be so high and he really didnt give a reason. It has a lot of problems (compounded with last gen's problems) that seem to make it a bit undesirable in many cases.

• Knock Off is literally everywhere and makes Chansey almost useless and much easier to defeat.
• It loses to Nasty Plot Lucario, Genesects that use U-Turn a lot, and Sacred Sword Aegislash, making it not that amazing of special wall.
• It is still set-up fodder to a lot of dangerous Pokemon and cannot do very much direct damage. Now Bisharp and Mega Mawile can literally just Swords Dance all over one with Toxic, and even ones with Thunder Wave are still pretty free to get Knock Offed and Sucker Punch ignores this. This can happen against other Pokemon too, but these are the newer ones.
• There are still a ton of relevant Fighting-types in the metagame, including Keldeo and Terrakion, but now there's also more Lucarios and Conkeldurrs that last generation, as well as a newfound Mega Medicham and others. They are a bit easier to deal with than before but they all still threaten Chansey.
• Physical Attackers are much more prevalent compared to special attackers, making a special wall with such a bland typing not as important.

To be honest I can't really think of much it can defeat other than Greninja or the Latis out of S-Rank or A-Rank. It may wall Ghost-types, which is a better typing than last gen, but many of the best Ghost-types don't have a very hard time against it due to an immunity to Toxic. Chansey also has some major 4MSS that allows the Toxic and Thunder Wave scenario to be a guarantee oftentimes. It really seems like a mediocre choice in many situations and I dont see Chansey above B or B- Rank unless I am missing something major.

Bringing this back up because a lot of people seemed to ageee with it, but nothing happened and I only saw one person oppose it.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Bringing this back up because a lot of people seemed to ageee with it, but nothing happened and I only saw one person oppose it.

• No, I hate the whole knock off argument. Knock off is not everywhere and literally is onyl ran by a couple pokemon who get STAB off it or need it to buff their bulk up by knocking off power items (LO, specs etc.) like mandibuzz and bisharp
• wrong
• +1 4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 177-208 (25.1 - 29.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
• 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 236-280 (33.5 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
• 16 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 322-380 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 44.9% chance to 2HKO *mixed set* etc
• it can't wall all of the metagame, strong physical steel types with over 400 atk or knock off are to chansey like kyurem b to mega venu
• IT HAZ A TYPE WEAKNESS ZOMG ALERT ALL HQ ALERT ALERT PLAY THE METAL GEAR SOLID ALERT THEME!!!
• it's not a fucking special wall, it's a mixed wall, it has perfect enough bulk to take physical hits, stop acting like it can't:
• 252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 283-334 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  
• 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 327-385 (46.4 - 54.6%) -- 61.3% chance to 2HKO
  
• 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 339-399 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
  
• etc

 

[Colonel M]

Let me put this bluntly: when you're considering Hydro Pump on Salamanca as a way to outclass other DDers you are literally scraping at the bottom of the barrel. Foregoing Earthquake or Fire Blast is the absolute worst thing DD Salamanca can do. It only proves itself to be theoretically lower than B+ in this manner.

Also lol at Knock Off being uncommon. Bisharp may not quite be climbing the ranks yet; however, AV Conkeldurr is becoming very popular and it often carries Knock Off. I actually find Chansey to be a huge liability this generation.

 

[RotomPoison]

• No, I hate the whole knock off argument. Knock off is not everywhere and literally is onyl ran by a couple pokemon who get STAB off it or need it to buff their bulk up by knocking off power items (LO, specs etc.) like mandibuzz and bisharp
• wrong
• +1 4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 177-208 (25.1 - 29.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
• 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 236-280 (33.5 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
• 16 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 322-380 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 44.9% chance to 2HKO *mixed set* etc
• it can't wall all of the metagame, strong physical steel types with over 400 atk or knock off are to chansey like kyurem b to mega venu
• IT HAZ A TYPE WEAKNESS ZOMG ALERT ALL HQ ALERT ALERT PLAY THE METAL GEAR SOLID ALERT THEME!!!
• it's not a fucking special wall, it's a mixed wall, it has perfect enough bulk to take physical hits, stop acting like it can't:
• 252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 283-334 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  
• 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 327-385 (46.4 - 54.6%) -- 61.3% chance to 2HKO
  
• 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 339-399 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
  
• etc

Did you really say Knock Off is only run by a few Pokemon? It has 97 BP the first time you hit something, meaning Aegislash will not like taking one, so the next is wrong. A Pokemon losing its item can be huge, so the move has a ton of utility. Every other point you have is either wrong or a pointless calc. Also, "etc" is not any type of arguement, it just proves you have no other (bad) things to say.

 

[Strykeypoo]

• No, I hate the whole knock off argument. Knock off is not everywhere and literally is onyl ran by a couple pokemon who get STAB off it or need it to buff their bulk up by knocking off power items (LO, specs etc.) like mandibuzz and bisharp

Azumarill, Bisharp, Crawdaunt, Conkeldurr, Deoxys-x, Gliscor, Landorus-T, Mamoswine, Mandibuzz, Mawhile, Scizor, Tornadus-T and Venusaur all can and often will use Knock Off. A 95 power attack that hits most things for at least neutral while potentially crippling them makes Knock Off one of the best moves in the game, currently. Knock Off is one of the few moves you can click 75% of the time without thinking and have it do something incredibly useful. The fact that half of OU gets it is just icing on the cake.

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

I didn't want to bring this Pokemon up, but I want to talk about a Pokemon typically deemed with the title of "Most Annoying Pokemon" ever since RSE. The Pokemon is the unspeakable horror known as...

Wobbuffet...

Okay, let's kind of get serious. First, the downfalls. Wobbuffet is the most one-dimensional Pokemon ever--I think this goes without mention. Counter+Mirror Coat+Encore+Safeguard/Destiny Bond is the absolute of Wobbuffet. It also may have good bulk, but that's all it is: Good. It's not fantastic (especially considering the typing), but the bulk can be considered "just right" because of the high HP and lower defenses used in conjunction with Counter and Mirror Coat. Choice Attackers are becoming more and more rare, with only a few (Genesect, occasional Talonflame and Scizor, Garchomp here and there, Terrakion, and I've even fought a Scarf Delphox once or twice) still remaining. Many Choice Pokemon have access to U-Turn, making it hard for Wobbuffet to fulfill its job. The power creep with Megas wasn't very nice, either. Taunt and Knock Off make Wobbuffet hate life, as the former prevents set-up and the latter removes its item, whether it be Leftovers or Custap Berry (if/whenever it is released...I might want to look at whether or not it is). Finally, to reiterate what I said earlier, Psychic-Type for a Defensive Pokemon is bad...VERY bad. Even if you were to try to take the "just right" amount of damage for CounterCoat, it will still be difficult to survive. So, with that said...what is Wobbuffet good at?

Though Wobbuffet has quite a few downsides, the upside almost entirely makes up for them all: Shadow Tag. This ability has cursed Wobbuffet to Ubers in the past, with BW being its first look at OU after the abilities were released. In conjunction with Encore, Wobbuffet can not only ensure a CounterCoat, but support its team by possibly forcing the opponent into a 3-turn Dragon Dance, allowing your Cloyster or other set-up sweeper a free turn...which we all know that all most Pokemon need is ONE turn. Many times, when your role is done, just launch a Destiny Bond as suicide (by now, you likely took out on of your opponent's Pokemon). The problem I'm having, personally, is where to rank it. Wobbuffet despises Status and all of the problems above need attention. Anybody have any thoughts on this one?
...yes, Wubby is getting an Analysis. I checked.

Azumarill, Bisharp, Crawdaunt, Conkeldurr, Deoxys-x, Gliscor, Landorus-T, Mamoswine, Mandibuzz, Mawhile, Scizor, Tornadus-T and Venusaur all can and often will use Knock Off.

Thundurus-I learns it, too...

 

[lordkira]

I'd like to ask a question regarding one specific pokemon's placement.
What is the reasoning behind garchomp's tier placement in A+?
I understand it's still a force to be reckoned with in gen 6.
However, I find garchomp's effectiveness, especially due to the introduction of the fairy type and its speed tier becoming worse than ever, lesser than it was in gen 5.

 

[Strykeypoo]

I'd like to ask a question regarding one specific pokemon's placement.
What is the reasoning behind garchomp's tier placement in A+?
I understand it's still a force to be reckoned with in gen 6.
However, I find garchomp's effectiveness, especially due to the introduction of the fairy type and its speed tier becoming worse than ever, lesser than it was in gen 5.

It's still one of the best late game sweepers with choice scarf. Physically defensive Rotom-W hurts it a little by being dominant, but the other new threats of Talonflame and Aegislash can be handled quite easily.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

Because it's the best non-mega Dragon atm, being capable of tearing apart Aegislash and outspeed +1 MZard if it runs Scarf. It's one of the most reliable Rocks setters, too, and he was not harmed too much by the release of the Fairies as certain others.

It's speedtier is actually better this gen than last, as this one isn't too much focused on high speed as it is with bulk. The 108 speed tier was the benchmark for sweepers last gen, but now it's mostly about priority. Priority usually does not hold much basepower (usually) meaning he can thrive as a revenge killer.

 

[Olijolly]

I'd like to ask a question regarding one specific pokemon's placement.
What is the reasoning behind garchomp's tier placement in A+?
I understand it's still a force to be reckoned with in gen 6.
However, I find garchomp's effectiveness, especially due to the introduction of the fairy type and its speed tier becoming worse than ever, lesser than it was in gen 5.

Garchomp's 102 speed is actually better than it was in gen 5.
Last gen had 108 as a very important speed tier to outrun.
Now, 108 speed tier is not very dominating or as nearly as important.
This gen is all about bulk and priority and garchomp is a very good pokemon to use in this meta.
Also, garchomp, unlike most other dragons, can still "spam" his EQ and fairies didn't really do much to garchomp.
IMHO, garchomp has gotten better in gen 6.

 

[TooMuchSugar]

Bringing this back up because a lot of people seemed to ageee with it, but nothing happened and I only saw one person oppose it.

Well, it sounds like you mostly decided then. Nothing's been updated for a while, so I wouldn't take that as a sign your argument's been ignored. From what you say, it sounds like you reached consensus on it and moved on to something else.

 

[DaiGuren]

Garchomp's 102 speed is actually better than it was in gen 5.
Last gen had 108 as a very important speed tier to outrun.
Now, 108 speed tier is not very dominating or as nearly as important.
This gen is all about bulk and priority and garchomp is a very good pokemon to use in this meta.
Also, garchomp, unlike most other dragons, can still "spam" his EQ and fairies didn't really do much to garchomp.
IMHO, garchomp has gotten better in gen 6.

Not necesarily. Lando-T forces out Garchomp if it comes in, and Will-O-Wisps are everywhere which puts Garchomp back into its place. Garchomp can't OHKO Genesect if wearing Scarf, while Genesect can OHKO back with Ice beam. Unboosted Garchomp also struggles at getting past MSaur.

Garchomp is good, but is manageable without resorting to specific counters/checks. Hence, A+.

 

[VanGru]

• No, I hate the whole knock off argument. Knock off is not everywhere and literally is onyl ran by a couple pokemon who get STAB off it or need it to buff their bulk up by knocking off power items (LO, specs etc.) like mandibuzz and bisharp
• wrong
• +1 4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 177-208 (25.1 - 29.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
• 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 236-280 (33.5 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
• 16 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 322-380 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 44.9% chance to 2HKO *mixed set* etc
• it can't wall all of the metagame, strong physical steel types with over 400 atk or knock off are to chansey like kyurem b to mega venu
• IT HAZ A TYPE WEAKNESS ZOMG ALERT ALL HQ ALERT ALERT PLAY THE METAL GEAR SOLID ALERT THEME!!!
• it's not a fucking special wall, it's a mixed wall, it has perfect enough bulk to take physical hits, stop acting like it can't:
• 252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 283-334 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  
• 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 327-385 (46.4 - 54.6%) -- 61.3% chance to 2HKO
  
• 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 339-399 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
  
• etc

Knock off is seen in almost every match, running eviolite pokemon isnt viable anymore, you can bet your ass some dude is going to phase your precious item away, almost every match, this has happened to me while running doublade in ou and not from dark type pokemon mind you.

 

[Tava]

@Everyone talking about Mence. I have been looking into Mence for a few hours now (and how it works this gen) and maybe it's just me but even though it can still do pretty much anything very well (and is still "uncounterable",) I feel like there is a poke that does everything slightly better.

Mega Charizard X & Dragonite > Mence in terms of a DD set (rocks isn't a huge deal now #defog & DNite has the Multiscale aka pretty much a turn to do whatever you want.)
Mega Garchomp (mixed) > MixMence in raw wallbreaking power (Mence can't really touch fairys. Mega Chomp with a max attack SF boosted eq OHKO's stuff like Sylveon without rocks & 252 hp Azumarril & max def/hp Florges after rocks. Only "problem" with Mega Chomp I have had so far is that it only does about ~75% to 252 hp Gliscors with Draco Meteor. isn't really a huge deal, but I know for a fact Mence OHKO's them.)
Scarf Chomp > ScarfMence (personally I think Moxie ScarfMence is still REALLY strong even with the fact that you can't outrage everything #fairys. The main problem with ScarfMence is it's now mediocre 100 base speed. I'm mainly an early gen IV player and back then anything that hit base 100 was considered pretty good. These days base 100 isn't what it used to be so that's kinda a problem :/.)

Another HUGE thing Mence doesn't like is the ridiculous abundance of priority moves now. Expect every team to have one or two priority attacks that will most likely kill Mence after either a few LO recoil turns or SR damage.

i would probably say Mence belongs in A- right now (too early to really say tbh.) And that REALLY pains me because he's so good. Everything else is just really good now too :/.

EDIT: Forgot about SpecsMence (was pretty popular in early d/p ou.) Latios does it 9 billion times better (even has access to trick and other cool stuff. + Psyshock for special walls.)

 

[rachet67]

Nominating Keldeo for A+ rank. Keldeo is THE choice specs user in this meta. Hydro pump simply punches holes in any team that lacks an immunity or amoonguss. Even venusaur in his mega forme is struggling to tank repeated hits. With latias, celebi and jellicent falling out of usage keldeo just becomes even more mindless than before, not needing to bother with tyranitar pursuit support or specific hidden powers, just blast shit. Secret sword ensures the blobs are non issues and also hits goodra harder than anything. He can also run life orb or expert belt but thats usually not required due to the sheer power specs provides. This thing is seriously beyond even specs latios in nuking terms and should be recognized as such. 108 speed+doesnt care about most priority (except that talonflame) means even the most offensive teams are still going to have trouble with him.

Completely agree that Keldeo is A+ rank. Specs keldeo is an absolute monster. What this gen did is make it much harder to sweep with keldeo. However, thats never what keldeo was best at. Specs keldeo can punch massive holes, even in pokemon that resist its stabs but lack recovery, such as azuramill. At wall breaking, on both the physical and the special side, specs keldeo is nearly unmatched and one of the best in OU. Yes there are new checks this gen, but its hard counters (celebi, jellicent, tentacruel, latios) are much rarer this generation. Specs Keldeo thrived last gen on tyranitar teams anyways, and the sand nerf helped it on those teams, as its no longer taking constant passive damage. Band Tyranitar can come into anything on talonflame and OHKO with pursuit. Also, on the specs set, modest nature is acceptable and hits even harder, though if 108 is the fastest base speed on your team, you'll typically want to stick with timid. And its movepool is still pretty fantastic for what it does. Secret sword and hydro pump is what makes it so damn good. Finally, pokes like slowbro/slowking are pretty rare in OU.

 

[LoDart210]

Can an argument be made for sacred fire entei, be it as a CB sweeper or an Assault Vest tank.


Between its substantial 115 HP and the assault vest, it can tank quite a few hits.

And between sacred fire, stone edge, bulldoze, and espeed, it can put a dent in teams and spread burns, leaving it very easy for a clean up sweeper to take care of business.

I'd say its a C because it had a very specific niche.

 

[RotomPoison]

As for Salamence, I tried a special Tailwind one that worked decently, but otherwise Tavas post explains how it is almost 100% outclassed otherwise, many other Pokemon can set up Tailwind.