Pokémon Charizard

Which one these MEvos will be OU in your opinion?


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Since Weather Abilities have been nerfed, I feel that they should be treated more gratitudely.

Drought = Fire Blast + Solar Beam spamage (bulk = win)
Drizzle = Thunder + Hurricane
Hail = Blizzard
Sandstorm = ???

Replies?
 
Nothing becomes perfectly accurate in Sandstorm if that is what you are asking. But the residual damage can be helpful for SpDef Ttar and Def Hippowdon I guess.
And it boosts Rock types SpDef by .5.
 
I personally love MegaZardY and I think he can pull off a mixed set (Though MZardX can definitely do better). Both have glaring weaknesses to SR but I believe MZardX gets hit with hazards (Spikes, Sticky Web) once it mega evolves (correct me if I'm wrong) but then again, the buff on Defog and Excadrill these weaknesses can be prevented. On the other hand, I think this mixed ZardY will be good. It needs A LOT of suggestions though.

Charizard @ CharizarditeY
Naive Nature
252Atk/4SpAtk/252Spd
-Solarbeam
-Earthquake
-Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Flare Blitz
-Flame Charge/Roost

252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Flame Charge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Blissey in Sun: 435-513 (60.9 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Hit the predicted special wall with a Flame Charge for a nifty +1 in speed that both ZardX and Y really need. 2HKO-ing is a plus too.

252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 356-420 (92.2 - 108.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
An excellent counter to ZardY, EQ absolutely destroys any Heatran not carrying Air Balloon
 
On Yzard, I like having a physical coverage move, and have been running brick brick because...
4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Blissey: 462-544 (64.7 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I like catching a predictable blob on the switch.

Thing is...
4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 108-128 (27.9 - 33.1%) -- 85.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Which is frustrating, especially since I don't run Focus Blast, opting instead for hidden power ice.

And so I considered earthquake because...
4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 284-336 (73.5 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

but...

4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Blissey: 308-363 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

now, don't call me greedy. A 3KO on specially defensive blissey is awesome, but I don't want to have to deal with softboiled or a toxic or thunderwave, but I know that, and especially for my Yzard in particulary, Heatran is the greater threat.

But Heatran often runs air balloon, which weakens Equake's case even more.

Any suggestions as to what I should run?
 
On Yzard, I like having a physical coverage move, and have been running brick brick because...
4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Blissey: 462-544 (64.7 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I like catching a predictable blob on the switch.

Thing is...
4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 108-128 (27.9 - 33.1%) -- 85.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Which is frustrating, especially since I don't run Focus Blast, opting instead for hidden power ice.

And so I considered earthquake because...
4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 284-336 (73.5 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

but...

4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Blissey: 308-363 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

now, don't call me greedy. A 3KO on specially defensive blissey is awesome, but I don't want to have to deal with softboiled or a toxic or thunderwave, but I know that, and especially for my Yzard in particulary, Heatran is the greater threat.

But Heatran often runs air balloon, which weakens Equake's case even more.

Any suggestions as to what I should run?
I recommend Earthquake just so that you won't be walled by other Fire types (that aren't part Flying). Brick Break doesn't help much apart from 2HKOing Blissey. If you run into Air Balloon Heatran, then you could try a) using Solarbeam and hoping that Heatran isn't carrying a Rock move for some reason before you use EQ or b) switching to a Pokemon that can take a Toxic or Lava Plume and do good damage to Heatran. The latter option is probably safer, but your team isn't always gonna be there for you.

Long story short: Earthquake > Brick Break on MegaZard Y IMO
 
Any suggestions as to what I should run?

I think I posted earlier in the thread that Focus Punch is the only move that really beats Chansey/Blissey and dents Heatran on the switch but you have to have good prediction with the initial Focus Punch, and then you have to predict whether they'll attack or not so you can either finish them off with 2 Fire Blasts or continue to Focus Punch away their Softboiled recovery and PP stall the move out.

Flare Blitz is another option to attack Chansey/Blissey but it does nothing to Heatran. You could also pair it with Reversal Dugtrio to solve this dual problem.
 
Here's something that Zard users are going to have to deal with:

On my team, I run a scarfed Rotom-H with Volt Switch and Thunderwave, and Hippowdon with Stone Edge and Earthquake.

When I see a Zard, I switch to Rotom-H. I can then either Thunderwave or Volt Switch to Hippowdon. I generally prefer the Thunderwave, because once Zard has been crippled, he is a sitting duck for the Hippo. The Volt Switch option is useful for an already evolved Zard-Y though.

This strategy may not be foolproof, but I face a lot of Zards on WiFi and I haven't yet had a problem with any of them. Whether it is the surprise element or not, I'm not sure. But if you don't have a strategy to counter it, I'm going to eat you.
 
I think I posted earlier in the thread that Focus Punch is the only move that really beats Chansey/Blissey and dents Heatran on the switch but you have to have good prediction with the initial Focus Punch, and then you have to predict whether they'll attack or not so you can either finish them off with 2 Fire Blasts or continue to Focus Punch away their Softboiled recovery and PP stall the move out.

Flare Blitz is another option to attack Chansey/Blissey but it does nothing to Heatran. You could also pair it with Reversal Dugtrio to solve this dual problem.

Focus Punch hits on the switch?

If it does...
4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 406-478 (56.8 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Blissey: 922-1086 (129.1 - 152.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO


4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 296-350 (42 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Chansey: 752-886 (106.8 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 214-252 (55.4 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It doesn't do as much as I'd like to defensive variants of chans/blissey and heatran, but then again Yzard has no business staying in on them anyway, so dealing a big chunk of damage and then switching seems good too.

 
Quick question if I am breeding for a perfect charmander (I masuda for competitive mons) with intentions of using it as a charizard y, does it matter if it has solar power or blaze, it's a pain gettin a mother with perfect ivs and solar power, I get plenty of blaze though. was wondering if blaze was okay. The nature I'm aiming for is naive as well
 
Quick question if I am breeding for a perfect charmander (I masuda for competitive mons) with intentions of using it as a charizard y, does it matter if it has solar power or blaze, it's a pain gettin a mother with perfect ivs and solar power, I get plenty of blaze though. was wondering if blaze was okay. The nature I'm aiming for is naive as well
It actually doesn't matter, if you are running a special variant (for what reason you would run physical, I don't know). Solar Power is useful, if you want to abuse sun, from your opponent or if you running a sun team with other sun setters, to boost Charizards other special moves, making it under the sun stronger than Y. But if you don't want to take too much damage through Solar Power and SR switch-ins and would evolte Charizard no matter what, then you should go with Blaze.
 
Thanks, so as long as I my main intentions are to use it megaevolved to chari y, solar power doesn't make to much of a difference? Are u also saying that solar power boosts the moves more than chari y does?
 
Which would be considered better overall: X or Y? I'm having trouble deciding which should use the mega slot in my team!

Mega Charizard X has got interesting moves, but his ability Tough Claws seems kinda lame in comparison to Drought.
Mega Charizard Y has got a great ability, but otherwise seems a little too similar to Normal Charizard.

I'm a noob in Competitive Play, but I wanna kick my friends' butts after school/
 
Thanks, so as long as I my main intentions are to use it megaevolved to chari y, solar power doesn't make to much of a difference? Are u also saying that solar power boosts the moves more than chari y does?
Solar Power Boosted Modest Charizard has 394*1,5=591 SpA
Modest Charizard Y has 458 SpA
However, that only affects non-Fire Typ Special Moves, because then Charizard Y can fire off Fire Typ moves, like it had 687 SpA.
 
Thanks, so as long as I my main intentions are to use it megaevolved to chari y, solar power doesn't make to much of a difference? Are u also saying that solar power boosts the moves more than chari y does?
Solar power Charizard does hit harder than MCharizardY in the sun, but I'd suggest using blaze as your base ability. The bulk it gets from MEvolving is worth remembering, and since you'll usually only be regular charizard for a turn if you switch in, you'll want to avoid taking that 12.5% damage on the turn you switch in. You could make a strategy around sun supporting regular charizard, and then mega evolving when sun ends, but that seems like a lot of trouble and in my experience, Y works best when you avoid weakening him before he mega evolves.

Which would be considered better overall: X or Y? I'm having trouble deciding which should use the mega slot in my team!

Mega Charizard X has got interesting moves, but his ability Tough Claws seems kinda lame in comparison to Drought.
Mega Charizard Y has got a great ability, but otherwise seems a little too similar to Normal Charizard.

I'm a noob in Competitive Play, but I wanna kick my friends' butts after school/
In general, probably X. He's a lot easier to fit on teams than Y, and he's a lot more dangerous when it comes to single handedly wrecking an entire team.

Y requires a more team centered player. Y is usually used to supply sun and/or remove dangerous walls so his team mates can destroy your opponent's team. He's also a great late game sweeper, but that requires his team mates to take out any of his checks and weaken the opponent's pokemon as much as possible.

Really depends on the team. Both really clean up and can help you win any match you play if you use them correctly
 
They both have different roles. Y is more of a wallbreaker. X is more of a sweeper. Neither is "better"
Doubt it, a game like this has far too many characters unique in their own ways to be equally good. To balance a video game with several characters who aren't identical to each other: it simply can't be done. There's a reason why games like Super Street Fighter IV and Pokémon have Tier Lists (different genres, but similar story), each characters have their own strengths and weaknesses that either help or hinder them in serious competition, some characters just do better against others and can either be viable or probably not viable.

In this case of the M-Charizards, I heavily doubt this is an exception.
 
Doubt it, a game like this has far too many characters unique in their own ways to be equally good. To balance a video game with several characters who aren't identical to each other: it simply can't be done. There's a reason why games like Super Street Fighter IV and Pokémon have Tier Lists (different genres, but similar story), each characters have their own strengths and weaknesses that either help or hinder them in serious competition, some characters just do better against others and can either be viable or probably not viable.

In this case of the M-Charizards, I heavily doubt this is an exception.
But they have different roles. Asking which is better is like asking if Sue the lawyer is better at her job than Larry the doctor is at his, when Sue is the best lawyer in the country and Larry is the best doctor in the country. Its just too hard to compare
 
Doubt it, a game like this has far too many characters unique in their own ways to be equally good. To balance a video game with several characters who aren't identical to each other: it simply can't be done. There's a reason why games like Super Street Fighter IV and Pokémon have Tier Lists (different genres, but similar story), each characters have their own strengths and weaknesses that either help or hinder them in serious competition, some characters just do better against others and can either be viable or probably not viable.

In this case of the M-Charizards, I heavily doubt this is an exception.

Tell me, who's better: Excadrill or Garchomp.
 
Doubt it, a game like this has far too many characters unique in their own ways to be equally good. To balance a video game with several characters who aren't identical to each other: it simply can't be done. There's a reason why games like Super Street Fighter IV and Pokémon have Tier Lists (different genres, but similar story), each characters have their own strengths and weaknesses that either help or hinder them in serious competition, some characters just do better against others and can either be viable or probably not viable.

In this case of the M-Charizards, I heavily doubt this is an exception.
You're being overly pedantic. One probably has got to contribute more win shares than the other. However, unless you have any facts proving one is better than the other, it is a subjective matter. They both perform about equally in their roles according to myself and many other players. You can't say one is better than the other without being subjective yourself.
 
Would Fire Punch be worth using over Flare Blitz on CharX? I hate bothering to set up when Flare Blitz recoil will kill me in 2~3 hits.

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Trevenant: 410-486 (109.6 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur: 390-462 (107.1 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Trevenant: 404-476 (108 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Venusaur: 374-444 (102.7 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 356-422 (126.2 - 149.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 384-456 (109 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 276-326 (101.4 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 486-572 (134.2 - 158%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 186-218 (55.6 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 294-348 (88 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 276-326 (82.6 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 440-518 (131.7 - 155%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So far that I can see, Skarmory is the only Poke I'd want Flare Blitz for after a Dragon Dance. Outrage is there to power through neutral hits.

 
Would Fire Punch be worth using over Flare Blitz on CharX? I hate bothering to set up when Flare Blitz recoil will kill me in 2~3 hits.

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Trevenant: 410-486 (109.6 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur: 390-462 (107.1 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Trevenant: 404-476 (108 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Venusaur: 374-444 (102.7 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 356-422 (126.2 - 149.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 384-456 (109 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 276-326 (101.4 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 486-572 (134.2 - 158%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 186-218 (55.6 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 294-348 (88 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 276-326 (82.6 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 440-518 (131.7 - 155%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So far that I can see, Skarmory is the only Poke I'd want Flare Blitz for after a Dragon Dance. Outrage is there to power through neutral hits.
It would be a relief to not have to rely on roost and free up a slot for thunder punch/earthquake
 
Without Flare Blitz you have no strong neutral STAB though, Dragon Claw isn't really powerful enough to OHKO neutral targets even with a boost.

Why would you make a calc for physically defensive Venusaur, that's irrelevant, it's mega Venusaur the calc should be against and Fire Punch fails to OHKO 252 HP Mega Venusaur at +1 while Flare Blitz does 25% of the time or 100% after Stealth Rock.
 
Without Flare Blitz you have no strong neutral STAB though, Dragon Claw isn't really powerful enough to OHKO neutral targets even with a boost.

Why would you make a calc for physically defensive Venusaur, that's irrelevant, it's mega Venusaur the calc should be against and Fire Punch fails to OHKO 252 HP Mega Venusaur at +1 while Flare Blitz does 25% of the time or 100% after Stealth Rock.

The thing with flare blitz is that it demands roost over a coverage move, which can decide a match. All it would take is for azumarill to switch and you'd be wrecked because you'd have to switch out on the belly drum.
 
You're being overly pedantic. One probably has got to contribute more win shares than the other. However, unless you have any facts proving one is better than the other, it is a subjective matter. They both perform about equally in their roles according to myself and many other players. You can't say one is better than the other without being subjective yourself
Oh yeah I'm sure you're the biggest professional in the world and if you say it, its true *rolls eyes*. Arrogance....

And what other players? That's not what I've been seeing from the poll and a few other guys here. Generally I've been told that Charizard X is better when comparing them as standalone Pokémon since he requires less support from teammates and is easier to fit on times.
 
Oh yeah I'm sure you're the biggest professional in the world and if you say it, its true *rolls eyes*. Arrogance....

And what other players? That's not what I've been seeing from the poll and a few other guys here. Generally I've been told that Charizard X is better when comparing them as standalone Pokémon since he requires less support from teammates and is easier to fit on times.

The thing is, they do different things.

Xzard boosts and sweeps. He is easier to add to a team because he works alone mostly.

Yzard has an extremely high special attack and an ability that immediately boosts his fire attacks. So he is good at destroying bulky Pokemon that are giving you trouble. In comparison to xzard, who can easily be the final member chucked onto a team due to how independent it is, Yzard is a good place to start due to the versatility of support and power he provides.

Who is better depends on the team you already have.
 
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