-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Pokémon Charizard
- Thread starter X5Dragon
- Start date
- Status
You get outsped by Scarf Genesect, Scarf Exadrill, and Scarf/Dance Haxorus after you Dragon Dance if you go Adamant and they went +Speed when you would normally outrun them. You lose what would be speed ties to Scarf/Dance Salamence and Quiver Volcarona.
With full EV investment, as low as 87 Base Speed with a +Nature will outrun neutral 100.
Not having a single priority attack and stealth rock means that bellyzard will die very easily. Let it stay in gen3 where it belongs.
I've tried out SD ZardX with Sticky Web support and holy mothershitting father of god is it fucking powerful. Motherfucker can only be stopped by 2 things, first is air balloon Heatran (assuming you run EQ as your coverage move, Brick Break is viable but i prefer EQ), and second is to lock it into Outrage and sending in a bulky steel, which will still take loads of damage by +2 Outrage coming from ZardX.
I use it alongside Smeargle (yes, laugh at it, smeargle), and it absolutely wrecks shit. If I see anything in the opposing team that is faster and can threaten XZard's sweep, I go for Sticky Web, if anything else, Stealth Rock and switch to whatever works best in the situation. The smeargle I carry packs Explosion, so if the opponent sends in mandibuzz thinking it can sponge Spore and hazards and defog, they're wrong, since if I explode their defog fails and I can kill Mandi off with my next Pokemon.
I use it alongside Smeargle (yes, laugh at it, smeargle), and it absolutely wrecks shit. If I see anything in the opposing team that is faster and can threaten XZard's sweep, I go for Sticky Web, if anything else, Stealth Rock and switch to whatever works best in the situation. The smeargle I carry packs Explosion, so if the opponent sends in mandibuzz thinking it can sponge Spore and hazards and defog, they're wrong, since if I explode their defog fails and I can kill Mandi off with my next Pokemon.
Give this thing a Jolly Nature, and the Web support is all you need to absolutely 6-0 a team. I use a 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 HP Jolly and it is amazing. About the 2 counters you mentioned, any Xard should carry Brick Break / Earthquake which will decimate any Steel Type. Also the fact that this thing Iron Tail (Don't be hatin') Forces any Fairy not named Azumaril out. Flare Blitz, EQuake, Iron Tail, and Outrage is the Xard set that will define the Metagame.
EDIT: Swords Dance can be used as a Iron Tail / Earthquake replacement
Last edited:
I have a 5 IV Charmander with DD, Flare Blitz, Belly Drum, and Outrage. Any suggestions?mim looking at Charizard X
I personally prefer CharYzard to any Xarizard set, as it's got way more immediate power and a better support for more offensively oriented teams.
Dragon Dance doesn't cut it, it's too weak and can't help Charizard break through walls. While Swords Dance on the other hand, can pretty much outright OHKO any Pokemon not named Air Balloon Heatran (unless you have Brick Break, in which you OHKO it) or 252/252+ def Hippowdon (+2 Outrage still does around 78% minimum)
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 327-385 (77.8 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Everything else, including Gliscor, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Rotom-W, Gyarados, etc are OHKO'd by +2 Outrage/Flare Blitz.
Dragon Dance can work as a late-game sweeper though, but SD is much better for wallbreaking.
As for CharY vs. CharX, the former has immediate power and requires no set-up/support, while the latter, if given the opportunity to set-up, can be much more threatening.
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 327-385 (77.8 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Everything else, including Gliscor, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Rotom-W, Gyarados, etc are OHKO'd by +2 Outrage/Flare Blitz.
Dragon Dance can work as a late-game sweeper though, but SD is much better for wallbreaking.
As for CharY vs. CharX, the former has immediate power and requires no set-up/support, while the latter, if given the opportunity to set-up, can be much more threatening.
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 440-518 (131.7 - 155%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Rotom-W: 288-340 (94.7 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 310-366 (93.3 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (Assuming Intimidate, Moxie DDos is OHKO'd)
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 246-289 (58.5 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Rotom-W: 288-340 (94.7 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 310-366 (93.3 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (Assuming Intimidate, Moxie DDos is OHKO'd)
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 246-289 (58.5 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I suppose Swords Dance might be a better choice against full passive stall, but except from getting past very defensive Gliscor and Landorus-T, I don't see any benefit in running Swords Dance over Dragon Dance.
With CharX's coverage options, or lack thereof, removal of ground and rock walls + heatran's air balloon should be considered the win condition. He doesn't have any business trying to bust Hippowdon down in a straight fight because Hippowdon will absolutely chunk him in exchange for its life (73-86.5%).
So how about we see how Hippo dude's Earthquakes effect Xard?
4 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 218-258 (73.1 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Considering the fact that any Xard will outspeed any Hippowdon, the best Hippowdon can do is weaken him a bit, as the Outrage will destroy him.
4 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 218-258 (73.1 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Considering the fact that any Xard will outspeed any Hippowdon, the best Hippowdon can do is weaken him a bit, as the Outrage will destroy him.
I wouldn't call this 'a bit'. It's technically dead Charizard X which can be revenge killed by any priority back. And if he took technically any residual damage, it's almost certainly 100% dead dragon (like from SR). While Hippowdon looses in the end in most cases, he technically takes Charizard X with him to the graveyard.
Plus for Charizard to actually beat Hippowdon it needs to run Outrage (Dragon Claw is better IMO), otherwise it dies to sandstorm and Flare Blitz recoil.
I've been running a Baton Pass Scolipede to hand a DD-DC-FP-BB-Charizard sword dances, substitutes, and speed boosts. I don't always choose him to pass the SD too (because nobody wants to be predictable), but when I do, mother of god...
Baton Pass can be gimmicky, so the key is to be opportunistic and not get greedy. sometimes you may just need the substitute, or just the speed boost. It helps Charizard can function on his own with Dragon Dance when Scolipede isn't in a position to help.
Baton Pass can be gimmicky, so the key is to be opportunistic and not get greedy. sometimes you may just need the substitute, or just the speed boost. It helps Charizard can function on his own with Dragon Dance when Scolipede isn't in a position to help.
Last edited:
Stone Edge/Rock Slide?
They almost always carry roar or whirlwind though, so I wouldn't rely on that.
You can't be certain that it doesn't, so if you try, there's a good chance you'll find that you've just wasted time.
I would attempt to set up on a Hippowdon simply because you can bluff Charizardite Y. More likely than not, I think the opposing player would switch out in fear of getting blasted by a Solarbeam and secondly, to keep their weather-inducer. This would probably give you a free Dragon Dance which'll probably ensure at least 1 KO.
On this note, I love using Charizard. It has two very powerful mega forms so a wrong prediction on the opponent can often be game-changing. It makes for some very awesome mind games. Another trick I like doing is using Charizard's flying type to my advantage before actually Mega-evolving to Mega-Charizard X. One example I can think of is Dragon Dancing on choice-locked fighting moves. Since the Mega form has the same base speed, this strategy usually works pretty well. So far, Charizard-X has been my favorite Mega to use. It sweeps unprepared teams easily and with proper support it's a huge threat to most teams simply after 1 Dragon Dance.
Wasn't in the mood to battle today so I went around observing instead- and the number of teams that pack Char-Y without Rapid Spin/Defog support is just overwhelming. Why use one of the best wallbreakers in the entire game if you aren't going to support it? I don't think it can be stressed enough that Entry Hazard management is simply a must-have for any team wanting to use Charizard-Y.
I've found that in general, forretress works well, since it can take physical hits aimed at Char-Y, as well as being a lightningrod for fire-typed attacks, which basically invite Char-Y or other sun sweepers to come in, particularly Chandelure and Heatran who both have flash fire.
I've found that in general, forretress works well, since it can take physical hits aimed at Char-Y, as well as being a lightningrod for fire-typed attacks, which basically invite Char-Y or other sun sweepers to come in, particularly Chandelure and Heatran who both have flash fire.
That falls under "it could but probably doesn't have it". Most hippo carry rocks/whirlwind and it needs recovery to do its job which just leaves a single slot and most of the time the STAB earthquake gets the nod.
Rock Slide used to be quite popular on specially defensive Hippowdon to check Volcarona (while also giving good EdgeQuake coverage) so I wouldn't be surprised to see it more now that Talonflame and Charizard are popular.
I don't think you know how to use the word 'technically'
Just wanted to point out that slow Volt Switch/U-turn users + Defog/Rapid Spin can make Charizard Y do ridiculous amounts of work over the course of a match since very few things can repeatedly switch into it.
A favorite of mine is Defensive Scizor with U-turn and Defog, as it can take a lot of the physical moves which normally obliterate Charizard, provide Defog, and gives a slow U-turn (which can scare out threats for Charizard-Y, as well as allow Charizard Y to come in on many of Scizor's counters).
A favorite of mine is Defensive Scizor with U-turn and Defog, as it can take a lot of the physical moves which normally obliterate Charizard, provide Defog, and gives a slow U-turn (which can scare out threats for Charizard-Y, as well as allow Charizard Y to come in on many of Scizor's counters).
- Status