HELP! My Rain Team WIN in the OU

[DickTurbaaasz]

Team Building Process
When I first made my rain team, I decided to base it around Suicune. However, my original rain team was too vulnerable to Mega-Venusaur, Ferrothorn, and Manaphy. In addition to this, my core of Suicune + Scizor didn't bring the offensive threat I thought it. In order to improve the team, I decided to swap out Suicune with Manaphy. This is where I started building my team.

This combo works well for me because I like Mega-Scizor's because he can act as a pivot into Manaphy. In addition to this, Scizor can tank both electric and grass moves pretty well (Those are both of Manaphy's weaknesses). This helps Manaphy to get in a quick tail glow or two, and then wrecking your opponent's team.

After all, this is a rain team so of course I need to add the necessities. Here, I added Kabutops and Politoed because I need a swift swimmer and a rain starter. The reason I added Kabutops over the other swift swimmers is because he is a Swords Dance physical attacker. These two compliments Manaphy because Politoed sets up rain for Manaphy's hydration+rest and Kabutops acts as the Physical force as my offense.

Looking at the defenses of my team, I realized that my team needed more defensive bulk. And since I am not creative, I went for Blissey. Blissey works well with my team because she can kill choice specs Pokemon and can also put toxic on several threats without getting hurt. Lastly, Blissey is a bitch to deal with and it is nice to have that extra bulk on your team.

To finish off my team I added Breloom because he can OHKO Ferrothorn, Rotom-Wash, and Jellicent. However, since Breloom is slow he can't really deal with Manaphy or Starmie (or any fast Ice Beamer). In addition to this, Breloom's STAB mach punches are always nice to have. Lastly Breloom is a good answer to baton passing Smeargles and it is a Pokemon that all rain teams should consider having.

[hide\]
THE TEAM

Lastly, after revisions to my team (with the help of the forums) I have added
Mega-Venusaur and Conkeldurr. These two Pokemon offer great offensive presence, and defensive presence. However, Venusaur is unable to use synthesis in the rain (a major minus) but this disadvantage is outweighed by the other strengths it brings to the team. In addition to this, while Ferrothorn may be a better grass type tank, it lacks the ability to brake walls like Jellicent and Rotom-W because he lacks the offensive presence (at least not as well as Mega-Venusaur does). Along with the change to Blissey, you may have also noticed that Conkeldurr has replaced Breloom. I did this for several reasons, well because it was suggested, but also because Conkeldurr is a better status absorber. This is mainly because washing machines are found everywhere in the OU, and also because he becomes boosted from it. In addition to this, Conkeldurr adds much needed bulk to the team. Lastly, you can see that I have added Kingdra. This is because Kingdra is only weak to one Type, and also makes it easier to switch into my physical sweeper. And since I have Manaphy, I will be running a physical set on Kingdra.

(CHANGES TO POKEMON SETS ARE IN PROGRESS)

I personally feel like my rain team is really strong, and it can break pretty much EVERY team. However, I suck at Pokemon and usually screw up my plays. But anyway, I just want to know whether my team is really good or not. So if you could please, tell me if it is a good team (like could you rate it 1-10) and if it SUCKS tell me how to improve it. Or you could give a rating, then tell me why you gave it, then tell me how to improve it. Lastly, I really DONT care how you end up rating it and any way you rate it is fine. And if you do end up rating it, thank you!

Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Lax Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- U-Turn

This set works as a pivot and also deals with sticky web. I chose defog because Manaphy will always be a better sweeper on my team than scizor, and Manaphy can't sweep when there is a sticky web up. Secondly, Roost used to be swords dance but I found that Scizor died a lot with that set. Thirdly, STAB priority moves are always helpful and they sweep up low health sweepers. Lastly, U-Turn helps with switch-ins to Manaphy and other Pokemon that don't want to take hits. To explain the EVs and nature, I maxed Def and HP because I am running a defensive pivot set.

Manaphy @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Rest
- Ice Beam
- Tail Glow
- Surf

First of all, Wacan Berry is great because it allows Manaphy to do an easy tail glow against a Galvantula lead. Secondly, I use rest because of Hydration + Rain. Ice beam is also good because it kills grass types., and of course I have to use tail glow because +3 stages of anything is amazing. Lastly, I use Surf over Hydro Pump because the extra power isn't needed since you are in the rain. To explain the EVs and nature, I max speed because I'm going to be boosting tail glow so I don't really need to max Special Attack.


Kingdra @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Iron Head
- Dragon Dance

I'm running Kingdra as an All Out Attacker. So of course, I maxed Speed and attack. Also, it's pretty easy to set-up a Dragon Dance with him (just be careful). In addition to this, Waterfall is great because the rain makes it supercharged. Outrage cleans up the last few Pokemon on teams, and Iron Head kills fairies, and it's really just an All Out Attacker set. However, I might change Life Orb with Choice Band and get rid of Swords Dance all together.

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Toxic

First of all, with the nerfs to weather starters, Damp Rock is pretty much a staple. Also, some people use a Choice Specs set for Politoed. In my opinion using Choice Specs on Politoed is stupid, and having a bulky water is really good (that's why I use Damp Rock and Defensive EVs). To add onto this, Perish Song is great because it forces a boosting Pokemon to switch. Also Scald > Surf because the BRN chance is too good to pass up, and Protect+Toxic is good for stall.


Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 SDef / 4 Def / 252 HP
Careful Nature
- Petal Blizzard
- Roar
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis​

Mega-Venusaur is a great Pokemon, and is has been really prominent this generation. This is mostly because it has a new Mega-Evolution, and the ability thick fat that allows it to absorb fire and water moves with ease. In addition, it's grass typing makes it a great answer to Rotom-W and Jellicent. Also, this set is really standard and I have played against it in Showdown. It is common for it's consistency to stall out teams and it was also recommended to me. I personally fell like a specially defensive Venusaur is a better option than a Defensive one (harder to break) and leech seed and Roar make the set go a long way since it scares off setting up Pokemon.


Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 244 SDef / 12 Def
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Ferrothorn is a threat that ALL rain teams have to deal with. Ferrothorn is a Pokemon that rapes rain teams. This set for Conkeldurr can OHKO Ferrothorn, and regain any health he loses from Rocky Helmet + Iron Barbs. Lasttly, to explain the EVs I run max offense to OHKO threats. Also, I max special defense and have him hold assault vest to take special attacks (low SpD). In addition to this, it is also the standard set and it was also recommended to me. Lastly, this set is really just a standard build for Conkeldurr.

Overall, I think my rain team is pretty strong. However, I really DO need suggestions. PLEASE! Because I'm not an expert at Pokemon. And frankly, I kinda suck (LOL). In the end though. Any criticism would be really appreciated. Thank You!

RETIRED SETS
​

Starmie (Kabutops) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk
- Waterfall
- Low Kick
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge​

Breloom @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- Mach Punch
- Rock Tomb
- Bullet Seed​

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Wish Soft Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Aromatherapy
- Toxic​

SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME HOW TO DO SPOILERS

COMPRESSED FILE

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Hide

Manaphy @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Energy Ball
- Surf
- Ice Beam

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Iron Head
- Dragon Dance

Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Roost

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 244 SDef / 12 Def
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 SDef / 4 Def / 252 HP
Careful Nature
- Petal Blizzard
- Roar
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Perish Song
- Toxic
- Protect
- Scald

​

Starmie (Kabutops) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk
- Waterfall
- Low Kick
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge

Starmie (Kabutops) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk
- Waterfall
- Low Kick
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge

Starmie (Kabutops) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk
- Waterfall
- Low Kick
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge​

 

[BenTheDemon]

Unfortunately, Rain teams have plummeted in usage since the nerf of permanent weather. Even I hopped on the Rain Train (I should patent that phrase) in Gen V.
But luckily, with the nerf of permanent weather, the Drizzle/Swift Swim combo is no longer banned, and it's good to see that you've taken advantage of this.
Now time for my suggestions:
The big problem I see in this team is that it heavily relies on Rain, and as it stands Politoed has no possible way of healing itself. To remedy this, simply replace Softboiled on Blissey to Wish. This gives Politoed much better survivability.
My second suggestion is to replace Defog on Scizor with Swords Dance, because nothing on your team is weak to Stealth Rock. It also gives Scizor the ability to sweep.
And lastly, this isn't a suggestion, but I like how you added Superpower on Breloom to take out Ferrothorn. It's so easy to go with Cookie cutter sets, but you went the extra mile to close up a big hole. Good job.
EDIT: But since you're using a Breloom set with 4 attacking moves, I'd go for a Choice Band to deal out extra damage.

 

[DickTurbaaasz]

Unfortunately, Rain teams have plummeted in usage since the nerf of permanent weather. Even I hopped on the Rain Train (I should patent that phrase) in Gen V.
But luckily, with the nerf of permanent weather, the Drizzle/Swift Swim combo is no longer banned, and it's good to see that you've taken advantage of this.
Now time for my suggestions:
The big problem I see in this team is that it heavily relies on Rain, and as it stands Politoed has no possible way of healing itself. To remedy this, simply replace Softboiled on Blissey to Wish. This gives Politoed much better survivability.
My second suggestion is to replace Defog on Scizor with Swords Dance, because nothing on your team is weak to Stealth Rock. It also gives Scizor the ability to sweep.
And lastly, this isn't a suggestion, but I like how you added Superpower on Breloom to take out Ferrothorn. It's so easy to go with Cookie cutter sets, but you went the extra mile to close up a big hole. Good job.

Thanks man! Ill make those changes!

 

[BenTheDemon]

No problem. I always enjoy helping make good teams great, and I saw that yours had potential.
If you want some self-help, here are some tools of the trade:
Damage Calculator: http://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/
Synergy Checker: http://www.marriland.com/tools/team-builder
Break/Wall My Team: http://sweepercalc.com/rmt/

 

[DickTurbaaasz]

No problem. I always enjoy helping make good teams great, and I saw that yours had potential.
If you want some self-help, here are some tools of the trade:
Damage Calculator: http://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/
Synergy Checker: http://www.marriland.com/tools/team-builder
Break/Wall My Team: http://sweepercalc.com/rmt/

Thanks for telling me about these sites they seem great!

 

[BenTheDemon]

No problem at all. Welcome to the world of competitive Pokemon.
Also, don't be shy to shoot me a PM. ;)

 

[Twin_Scimitar]

As a recent rain aficionado I'd like to help out.

I feel like your team has a strong group of rain abusers. I like the Kabutops/Manaphy/Scizor-M trio a lot. However, I do see a problem that I've run into in the past with rain teams.

You seem pretty weak to Genesect, especially before rain is up. It's true that Manaphy can tank a thunderbolt with Wacan if it really wants to, but you'd still lose in that scenaro with Manaphy as your switchin. So it'd be nice to have a good pivot to go to in order to deal with Genesect.

My suggestion would be to remove Blissey and Breloom for Mega Venusaur and AV Conkeldurr. I realize this is a pretty extreme change, but I think it keeps the current dynamic of your team and also comes with two relatively customizable pokemon so you can make it your own. This change does a couple of great things for your team. AV Conkeldurr can switch freely into basically any Genesect set and recover health with Drain Punch. With Guts Conkeldurr you also retain your status sponge role that Blissey initially filled. AV Conkeldurr does a great job against Ferrothorn and can carry priority, retaining the useful role Breloom served for your team.

Venusaur is a full stop to many water pokemon that would otherwise take advantage of your rain. It can also serve as a great mixed wall if you so choose, which helps to recover some of your walling capabilities you lost going with Blissey. You also are able to now check Azumaril and Mega Lucario, both of which did well against your team before the change (Special Mega Lucario in particular). The only problem with Venusaur in rain is of course losing synthesis, which is admittedly a weakness of this suggestion. Still here's what I'd try out if I were you.

Hide

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

(see post #33 http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/conkeldurr-qc-1-3.3495926/page-2 for ev explanation)

Hide

Venusaur @ Venusarite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed
- Earthquake
- Sludge Bomb

You could go with sleep powder instead of earthquake or sludge bomb if you find that works best for your team. Or go for a more offensive ev spread if that's your preference

If you're reluctant to change two members of your team, you could give Clefable a try instead of Blissey (I know you said you're reluctant to use her, but yeah)

+1 4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 240-283 (33.6 - 39.6%) -- 21.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 86-102 (21.8 - 25.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

While you do take more from special attacks it becomes a much better scarf Genesect switch in (57% are scarfed). When using Clefable as a check, it's important to scout for Iron head (37% of genesect carry Iron head). Manaphy or Politoed are probably your best scouts to figure out what you might be up against as 80% of genesect carry u-turn, ice beam, and flamethrower and 45% carry thunderbolt. Keep in mind the majority of Iron Head Genesect users don't run choice scarf, so if you have good reason to believe it is the scarf set your Clefable is probably safe. Even so, blissey doesn't do much better against iron head genesect.

+1 4 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 274-324 (38.3 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (If you are switching in you lose)
+1 4 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 392-464 (99.4 - 117.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO (you get obliterated)

In my opinion despite the Iron Head problem Clefable does better against Genesect. Unaware Clefable also has the added plus of being a full stop to many boosting sweepers, an advantage it has over Blissey.

Here's the set I've been using:

Hide

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Aromatherapy
- Moonblast

An even more minor change you could make would be to go from Blissey to Chansey, although I think you'd want Wish and Protect with your Chansey.

Overall I do like your team's setup. I've had problems with Genesect in the past so I thought I'd pop in and offers some suggestions; go team rain! ;)

 

[DickTurbaaasz]

As a recent rain aficionado I'd like to help out.

I feel like your team has a strong group of rain abusers. I like the Kabutops/Manaphy/Scizor-M trio a lot. However, I do see a problem that I've run into in the past with rain teams.

You seem pretty weak to Genesect, especially before rain is up. It's true that Manaphy can tank a thunderbolt with Wacan if it really wants to, but you'd still lose in that scenaro with Manaphy as your switchin. So it'd be nice to have a good pivot to go to in order to deal with Genesect.

My suggestion would be to remove Blissey and Breloom for Mega Venusaur and AV Conkeldurr. I realize this is a pretty extreme change, but I think it keeps the current dynamic of your team and also comes with two relatively customizable pokemon so you can make it your own. This change does a couple of great things for your team. AV Conkeldurr can switch freely into basically any Genesect set and recover health with Drain Punch. With Guts Conkeldurr you also retain your status sponge role that Blissey initially filled. AV Conkeldurr does a great job against Ferrothorn and can carry priority, retaining the useful role Breloom served for your team.

Venusaur is a full stop to many water pokemon that would otherwise take advantage of your rain. It can also serve as a great mixed wall if you so choose, which helps to recover some of your walling capabilities you lost going with Blissey. You also are able to now check Azumaril and Mega Lucario, both of which did well against your team before the change (Special Mega Lucario in particular). The only problem with Venusaur in rain is of course losing synthesis, which is admittedly a weakness of this suggestion. Still here's what I'd try out if I were you.

Hide

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

(see post #33 http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/conkeldurr-qc-1-3.3495926/page-2 for ev explanation)

Hide

Venusaur @ Venusarite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed
- Earthquake
- Sludge Bomb

You could go with sleep powder instead of earthquake or sludge bomb if you find that works best for your team. Or go for a more offensive ev spread if that's your preference

If you're reluctant to change two members of your team, you could give Clefable a try instead of Blissey (I know you said you're reluctant to use her, but yeah)

+1 4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 240-283 (33.6 - 39.6%) -- 21.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 86-102 (21.8 - 25.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

While you do take more from special attacks it becomes a much better scarf Genesect switch in (57% are scarfed). When using Clefable as a check, it's important to scout for Iron head (37% of genesect carry Iron head). Manaphy or Politoed are probably your best scouts to figure out what you might be up against as 80% of genesect carry u-turn, ice beam, and flamethrower and 45% carry thunderbolt. Keep in mind the majority of Iron Head Genesect users don't run choice scarf, so if you have good reason to believe it is the scarf set your Clefable is probably safe. Even so, blissey doesn't do much better against iron head genesect.

+1 4 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 274-324 (38.3 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (If you are switching in you lose)
+1 4 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 392-464 (99.4 - 117.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO (you get obliterated)

In my opinion despite the Iron Head problem Clefable does better against Genesect. Unaware Clefable also has the added plus of being a full stop to many boosting sweepers, an advantage it has over Blissey.

Here's the set I've been using:

Hide

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Aromatherapy
- Moonblast

An even more minor change you could make would be to go from Blissey to Chansey, although I think you'd want Wish and Protect with your Chansey.

Overall I do like your team's setup. I've had problems with Genesect in the past so I thought I'd pop in and offers some suggestions; go team rain! ;)

Thank you so much for your suggestions, I don't think the addition of conkeldurr and mega-venusaur are too drastic either. I personally love the bulk that both of these pokemon bring to teams, I have always liked mega-venusaur and cokeldurr. Thanks for the suggestion man!

All i gotta do now is make those changes to the team.