+4 STAB Aqua Jet tends to make an impression on anyone. Heck, at +4 you can easily go mixed with Shell Smash/Ice Beam/Aqua Jet/Stone Edge or the like.
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Item Weakness Policy
- Thread starter CBManBearPig
- Start date
- Status
+4 STAB Aqua Jet tends to make an impression on anyone. Heck, at +4 you can easily go mixed with Shell Smash/Ice Beam/Aqua Jet/Stone Edge or the like.
Carracosta has a natural defense that can't be underestimated. Once carracosta's WP actives, your goal is to not get hit again. When SS with a Positve speed nature, you will be able to outspeed both unscarf'd rotoms and even out prioritize Talonflame with an Aqua Jet. I use Crobat and Mega absol to keep haards away, and then once WP is triggered and sturdy activates, its sweeping time.
I might experiment more with this, though. Rain will definitely give it even more power. Earthquake may be used for extra coverage and to that you aren't always Sweep blocked by a Ferrothorn. Unfortunately, Carracosta's move diversity is very shallow, so while you can hit hard, you may become Easy to block by the right Steel type.
I might experiment more with this, though. Rain will definitely give it even more power. Earthquake may be used for extra coverage and to that you aren't always Sweep blocked by a Ferrothorn. Unfortunately, Carracosta's move diversity is very shallow, so while you can hit hard, you may become Easy to block by the right Steel type.
How about Tyrantum?
It's physical bulk allows it to possibly take hits from the physical side, using Rock's weakness to ground and fighting moves, which are most commonly physical. It can also take ice shards but you're better off not fighting something that can throw those at you. A lot of Play Rough users have sky high physical attack so you might be better off not trying this but...
I'm a bit too tired to do calcs right now, but theory-monning a bit, you can run a Rock Polish+Weakness Policy set using Tyrantum.
Rock Polish patches up his speed, and depending on what you want to outspeed, you can choose a neutral nature (to invest in bulk), or go for a Jolly Nature to try and beat scarfers after a Rock Polish. You can also try running Dragon Dance with Jolly, but I find that means you won't be investing much in bulk.
Even though it's only 2x weak to ice, Tyrantum's bad special defense means it's going down to ice beam like yache-less Garchomp.
Tyrantum @ Weakness Policy
+Stone Edge
+Ice Fang / Dragon Claw
+Fire Fang / Earthquake
+Rock Polish
Stone Edge is a powerful powerful attack with STAB and Weakness Policy active. Though it's accuracy isn't the most reliable, it's power definitely is. Ice Fang Vs. Dragon Claw is a question of having a reliable STAB option or if you need to cover Gliscor and Landorus(-T), who otherwise ruin your fun. Fire Fang Vs. Earthquake is a matter of how you'll get around Steel types. Earthquake is slightly more powerful, but Fire Fang edges out on hitting Ferrothorn and Skarmory hard. Scizor can't switch in on it, but if he gets in on you, his Bullet Punch is probably forcing you out. You don't want his BP activating your policy either because you won't be able to boost speed under the threat of death. You either Fire Fang him and get your KO or just opt out.
You'd need to use this set later on in the game. Priority users, namely ones of the punching variant, all spell trouble for Tyrantum, and they simply do not care for your stat boosts. Tyrantum's wide coverage allows it to handle a lot of threats in the late game, and it's speed after a Rock Polish can definitely take care of otherwise threatening foes. Without Rock Head being released, you won't want to use a recoil attack on a set that relies on you surviving a super effective hit.
Weakness Policy Tyrantum is mostly a gimmicky set, due to it's priority weakness and it's overall limit on what super effective hits you can take. SE hits from the special side will pretty much always wreck you outside of a sandstorm, and though I haven't done calcs, the fact that your EVs are spread between defense to survive an initial hit, speed, and attack, is a baaaad thing.
It's physical bulk allows it to possibly take hits from the physical side, using Rock's weakness to ground and fighting moves, which are most commonly physical. It can also take ice shards but you're better off not fighting something that can throw those at you. A lot of Play Rough users have sky high physical attack so you might be better off not trying this but...
I'm a bit too tired to do calcs right now, but theory-monning a bit, you can run a Rock Polish+Weakness Policy set using Tyrantum.
Rock Polish patches up his speed, and depending on what you want to outspeed, you can choose a neutral nature (to invest in bulk), or go for a Jolly Nature to try and beat scarfers after a Rock Polish. You can also try running Dragon Dance with Jolly, but I find that means you won't be investing much in bulk.
Even though it's only 2x weak to ice, Tyrantum's bad special defense means it's going down to ice beam like yache-less Garchomp.
Tyrantum @ Weakness Policy
+Stone Edge
+Ice Fang / Dragon Claw
+Fire Fang / Earthquake
+Rock Polish
Stone Edge is a powerful powerful attack with STAB and Weakness Policy active. Though it's accuracy isn't the most reliable, it's power definitely is. Ice Fang Vs. Dragon Claw is a question of having a reliable STAB option or if you need to cover Gliscor and Landorus(-T), who otherwise ruin your fun. Fire Fang Vs. Earthquake is a matter of how you'll get around Steel types. Earthquake is slightly more powerful, but Fire Fang edges out on hitting Ferrothorn and Skarmory hard. Scizor can't switch in on it, but if he gets in on you, his Bullet Punch is probably forcing you out. You don't want his BP activating your policy either because you won't be able to boost speed under the threat of death. You either Fire Fang him and get your KO or just opt out.
You'd need to use this set later on in the game. Priority users, namely ones of the punching variant, all spell trouble for Tyrantum, and they simply do not care for your stat boosts. Tyrantum's wide coverage allows it to handle a lot of threats in the late game, and it's speed after a Rock Polish can definitely take care of otherwise threatening foes. Without Rock Head being released, you won't want to use a recoil attack on a set that relies on you surviving a super effective hit.
Weakness Policy Tyrantum is mostly a gimmicky set, due to it's priority weakness and it's overall limit on what super effective hits you can take. SE hits from the special side will pretty much always wreck you outside of a sandstorm, and though I haven't done calcs, the fact that your EVs are spread between defense to survive an initial hit, speed, and attack, is a baaaad thing.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/pokebankoubeta-68734502
Lapras@Weakness Policy
Water Absorb
Calm 122 HP / 216 Df / 126 SpA / 44 SpD
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
~ Freeze Dry
~ Surf
Wanted to show an example of the updated set I tried out and how it can work in action. Only in the replay I'm using Hydration and not Water Absorb (I had Rain support but it wasn't coming in useful yet). Rotom-W is the ultimate lure for this. Pair this with an Excadrill who can Rapid Spin rocks away, which hamper your bulkiness. But you'll either switch into a WoW or Hydro Pump, which does nothing or you absorb. Now comes the likely Volt Change/Thunderbolt. You'll take a pittance in damage and depending on your HP you should probably Rest, if not spam Freeze Dry. It's really hard to 2HKO unboosted, and most things that are a threat get taken out badly by Freeze Dry and Surf. As you can see, +2 STAB Freeze Dry hurts. I think with some retooled team mates it could perform more reliably.
Water Absorb gets more switch ins and makes walling bulky waters much easier, but Shell Armor will honestly save you from a bunch of premature deaths. I've had numerous streaks ruined from crits.
Lapras@Weakness Policy
Water Absorb
Calm 122 HP / 216 Df / 126 SpA / 44 SpD
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
~ Freeze Dry
~ Surf
Wanted to show an example of the updated set I tried out and how it can work in action. Only in the replay I'm using Hydration and not Water Absorb (I had Rain support but it wasn't coming in useful yet). Rotom-W is the ultimate lure for this. Pair this with an Excadrill who can Rapid Spin rocks away, which hamper your bulkiness. But you'll either switch into a WoW or Hydro Pump, which does nothing or you absorb. Now comes the likely Volt Change/Thunderbolt. You'll take a pittance in damage and depending on your HP you should probably Rest, if not spam Freeze Dry. It's really hard to 2HKO unboosted, and most things that are a threat get taken out badly by Freeze Dry and Surf. As you can see, +2 STAB Freeze Dry hurts. I think with some retooled team mates it could perform more reliably.
Water Absorb gets more switch ins and makes walling bulky waters much easier, but Shell Armor will honestly save you from a bunch of premature deaths. I've had numerous streaks ruined from crits.
Would Celebi be a good user of weakness policy? I'd imagine so since it has good bulk and quite a few weaknesses, but I don't really know what a good moveset would be.
Using this set on showdown makes me happy when i have a bad day. Thank you
Weakness policy can be a good option for pokemon like dragonite as it has multi-scale to decrease super effective move by 50% during full hp with weakness policy activating +2 atk/spatk on dragonite for the exchange of at most unboosted super effective moves chipping 1/3 of your health at most sounds too good of a deal nobody would want to mess with a +2 dragonite.
It would probably work well with sableye or spiritomb since they're only weak to fairy types and are good walls.
Try HP fire! 83 Sp. atk is not awful, and it can most positively smack ferro for a decent chunk.
To count bleck.
To count bleck.
I recently got swept by a WP yanmega and thought it wouldn't be a bad user of it, with speed boost and good stab coverage and a plethora of resistances to activate it, it can be pretty effective
Take a look at Yanmega's bulk and shitty typing. What were you using on it, Ember?
Once Priority users are gone, this could have major implications on Sturdy Shell Smashers i.e. Carracosta and Crustle. After one turn these Pokemon can reach +4/+4/+2 Offenses at the cost of losing resistances that are useless since they are already at 1HP; unless the opponent has a priority user or fast scarfer waiting in the wings, it's just a case of "Goodbye, Mr Bond" from there on out.
In addition, Swords Dance Aegislash and Dragon Dance / Mixed Agility Dragonite could use this item extremely effectively, with their respective abilities and defenses enabling them to tank strong supereffective hits and grab the boost while setting up, then sweeping with their ferocious power; they even both have some of the strongest priority moves in the game; also, Dragonite can utilise Roost to gain back those defenses while Aegislash can severely weaken most physical attackers that stand in front of it with Kings Shield.
In addition, Swords Dance Aegislash and Dragon Dance / Mixed Agility Dragonite could use this item extremely effectively, with their respective abilities and defenses enabling them to tank strong supereffective hits and grab the boost while setting up, then sweeping with their ferocious power; they even both have some of the strongest priority moves in the game; also, Dragonite can utilise Roost to gain back those defenses while Aegislash can severely weaken most physical attackers that stand in front of it with Kings Shield.
Actually aside from the 4x rock weakness his typing wasn't to bad. As a matter of fact it was my clefables flamethrower that activated it, and yanmega has decent bulk on the physical side.
Also, no need for the sarcasm, I'm just trying to help -_-
Yeah, 86/86 is decent...until you realize that besides Grass, Fighting, and Ground it's not taking much with even that. Electric, Ice, Fire, and Rock are some of the most common attacks in OU, Rock being SR and Stone Edge, Fire being everywhere, Ice almost everywhere, and Electric being very common.
If you had Moonblasted Yanmega (which would have been better since they both 2HKO and it can lower Special Attack), that wouldn't have happened. Yanmega cannot take most neutral hits, let alone SE hits.
While I disagree that yanmega can't take neutral hits, you are right about me stupidly not moonblasting :/ . I was just saying WP COULD work on yanmega if it switched into like a weak ice shard and get +2 offensives and start racking up speed boosts. And switching into rocks or a rock type move with him is stupid and I wouldnt recommend it either tbh :/
Weak Ice Shard? Donphan is the only Ice Sharder in OU that Yanmega can actually take hits from, and only barely. Also about neutral attacks:
252 Atk Salamence Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 153-181 (48.7 - 57.6%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 184-217 (58.5 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Yanmega: 198-234 (63 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Yanmega: 231-273 (73.5 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Yanmega: 317-374 (100.9 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 181-214 (57.6 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (it's probably gonna set up a lot more)
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Yanmega: 331-390 (105.4 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Priority also completely ruins Yanmega. Playing it means you have to:
-Hope the opponent has a Donphan or a Flamethrower Blissey.
-Hope the opponent is dumb enough to fall for WP
-Get rid of all priority users
-Severely weaken Blissey and kill Chansey (keep Blissey to try for WP)
-Have a Rapid Spinner or Defogger
And even then it's not that good of a sweeper since it doesn't get that much coverage. Aegislash, Klefki, and Heatran wall it unless it runs HP Ground, and even then Aegislash and Klefki survive HP Ground (and MixAegi OHKOes with Shadow Ball while Klefki paralyzes). Oh, and the pink blobs wall it no matter what.
Well m8, I suppose you killed my logic. :/ still gonna try making it work, as if yanmega can somehow get off the WP it'd be decent enough. Possibly full invest in bulk and hope the WP is enough to make up for the lack of sp. attk ev's and speed boost to patch up its speed?
Command + F
No Lilligant on any page.
Let's fix that.
top lil (Lilligant) (F) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Own Tempo
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Petal Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power [Fire]
This set is similar to WeakNite, with the exception of not having good coverage, but having Sleep and a better stat boosting move. Honestly, try this set out.
No Lilligant on any page.
Let's fix that.
top lil (Lilligant) (F) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Own Tempo
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Petal Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power [Fire]
This set is similar to WeakNite, with the exception of not having good coverage, but having Sleep and a better stat boosting move. Honestly, try this set out.
What super effective moves are you planning on surviving with uninvested 70/75/75 defenses may I ask?
252 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant: 362-428 (128.8 - 152.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lilligant: 272-324 (96.7 - 115.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lilligant: 413-486 (146.9 - 172.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lilligant: 525-619 (186.8 - 220.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lilligant: 390-462 (138.7 - 164.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant: 240-284 (85.4 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lilligant: 256-302 (91.1 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Also.
+6 252+ SpA Lilligant Petal Dance vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 131-155 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- 36.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not even a 2HKO. Lilligant's coverage is unfortunately abysmal and there are far too many things that resist Grass for a sweeper. Maybe against certain special tragets with Leftovers, Leech Seed, Giga Drain and Sleep Powder you could stand a chance but this is, I'm sorry to say, not reliable for OU.
252 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant: 362-428 (128.8 - 152.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lilligant: 272-324 (96.7 - 115.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lilligant: 413-486 (146.9 - 172.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lilligant: 525-619 (186.8 - 220.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lilligant: 390-462 (138.7 - 164.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant: 240-284 (85.4 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lilligant: 256-302 (91.1 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Also.
+6 252+ SpA Lilligant Petal Dance vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 131-155 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- 36.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not even a 2HKO. Lilligant's coverage is unfortunately abysmal and there are far too many things that resist Grass for a sweeper. Maybe against certain special tragets with Leftovers, Leech Seed, Giga Drain and Sleep Powder you could stand a chance but this is, I'm sorry to say, not reliable for OU.
Simple, just don't use it against super high powered moves, no one keeps in Dragonite on Mamoswine before it gets a Weakness Policy boost, those are really bad examples anyways, of course it is going to die to those. Just food for thought really, using it against weakned Mamoswine as it uses Ice Shard, then sleeping it, Quiver Dancing, sweeping, as the main goal with WP is switching into weak, weak hits.
OK now this is REALLLLLYYY peaking my interest. I'm willing to try this out. Just curious as to how its teammates would look like? From how I see it it's pretty dependent on getting the WP boost and then not getting phazed out in the process. With its horrible typing and great defenses I think it does a pretty good job of luring SE moves by itself, but what about dealing with phazers? Would general wallbreakers work as good teammates, seeing as how this set is pretty much a situational wallbreaker? I'm really curious; I like Lapras and to see a set like this potentially working in OU is really making me feel giddy inside.
There aren't many weak ice (especially since people now longer use HP ice for dragons as often), fire, or flying type users in the OU meta. Almost all users of these types have stab and are fairly powerful. The only weakness Liligent could hope to benefit off of is bug. However the only common bug move U-turn which allows the user to immediately switch to the appropriate counter. Even if it does get a boost off, Petal dance and HP fire is really terrible coverage, and it can easily be revenged killed by talonflame.
252+ Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant: 186-218 (66.1 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Edit: Forgot the life orb, the real calc is:
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant: 242-283 (86.1 - 100.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Liligent can't switch in to ice shard as it is 2HKO'd.
Last edited:
Mamoswine OHKOs most of the time though.
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant: 242-283 (86.1 - 100.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Other than a wall using a non STAB move Lilligant is not surving a super effective hit, and. The only SE move I can think of that doesn't 2HKO is... Donphan's Ice Shard.
You simply cannot survive a half decent super effective attack with 0/0 Lilligant. Its bulk is trash. Heck, you'd be hard pressed to survive the neutral attacks. Dragonite works because it has like 3x the bulk of Lilligant with Multiscale and is often the target of Ice or Rock moves since not much else is going to kill it. When you don't even need the super effective hit to kill the Pokemon, that is when Weakness Policy is really bad.
Celebi would not be a good user of weakness policy as it has no way to boost its speed, is easily revenge killed by massive threats such as scarf genesect and talonflame, and has only decent coverage moves that still can't get around blissey, chansey, ferrothorn, Zapdos, and other special walls.
- Status