Blood On the Sand Floor

Balnagghar

Balnagghar

This is the first generation where I've genuinely got no idea how the hell to build a team. I've been playing since PokeMon yellow, with the exception of D/P/Pt. This it the first generation where everything just seems to have some stupid shut down button. Between the defog buff, weather nerf, steel nerf, and the new type, I'm having a hard time "covering all my bases" so to speak. Been playing with this for about 3 weeks now, but could use some advice.

(Imperator) Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 HP/252 Spe/4 Atk
-Crunch
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Dragon Dance

With the glorious combination of the eternal EdgeQuake combination, and a less-frequently-resisted STAB in Crunch, Tyranitar has little to fear other than fighting type moves on the switch, and fighting type priority moves after a few spins on the dance floor. I decided on HP to give myself as many opportunities to boost as humanly possible. I'm sure there is a more optimal spread though, so that's probably one of my biggest requests.

(NaNaNaBatman) Gliscor Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Nature: Impish
EVs: 244 HP/252 Def/ 8 Spe
-Toxic
-Protect
-Substitute
-Earthquake

I like having EQ, as it allows me to finish off many opponents several turns earlier than I would otherwise be able to simply with toxic/protect. The extra def EVs are to provide as much bulk as possible, HP ev gives best recovery from poison heal.

(Prikle Tikle) Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: HP 252/Def 252/Atk 4
IVs: Spe 0
-Gyro Ball
-Power Whip
-Stealth Rock/Protect
-Leech Seed

Ah, Ferrothorn. How I love thee. Though I miss the perfect resist coverage of the Jellicent/Ferro defensive core from last gen, this ballin' little bastard remains a core part of any team I can think of. I run stealth rock as my only hazard due to the fact that I don't really have anything to deal with defog, and lack a spin blocker. Also, it allows me to do things like break DNites multiscale, break sashes, and punish Charizard and Talonflame for daring to oppose me. I use Ferrothorn as a sort of rapid-spin-punisher as well, as you take 25% simply for using a (very low damage) move. With prediction and swaps, I seem to have a knack for killing most spinners with relative ease. EVS/Nature are to maximize the sheer damage potential of Gyro Ball, which I believe is often understated. Power Whip is for finishing off annoying water types, which my team isn't excessively prepared to deal with. Leech seed is just awesome.

(Fantasia) Hippowdon @Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
Nature: Impish
EVs: HP 252/Def 252/Attack 4
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind
- Slack Off
- Ice Fang/Stealth Rock

EQ is a solid and beloved stab, slack off is recovery, whirlwind is this team's only phaze move, and Ice Fang is a solid tool for crushing Dragonites, garchomps, and un-subbed Gliscors. Stealth rock is... Well, stealth rock. Having a second setter couldn't hurt, and Fantasia would be a better leader, but I'm not sure if it's necessary.

(Hans) Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
Nature: Adamant
EVS: Attack 252/HP 4/Spe 252
-Rapid Spin
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Swords Dance

Rapid spinner, boost sweeper, bane of all things that step into his sandy domain. Just a few descriptors of the death mole. EVs allow him to outspeed anything unboosted whilst in the sand, and allow for maximum bulk. EdgeQuake is the best coverage pair accessible to this terrifying little rodent, and swords dance is here because when I hit things, I like to watch them break.

(Bigger Jaws) Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Veil
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
-Outrage
-Crunch
-Earthquake
-Swords Dance

Even jaws and big jaws teaming up would have a hard time enduring the sand dragon's wrath. This guy is basically my clean up crew. I hate the miss chance of stone edge, and crunch helps me hit reuniclus harder, a pokemon that gives me trouble otherwise in the off chance the stars align and focus miss defies its nickname.

But um... Heh.

What do you see as my major weaknesses? I'd like to keep as much of a sand theme in here as possible, it's always been my favorite weather option. And I don't like sand dying just because rain and sun were so ridiculous last gen...

Former 'mon, special considerations

Calm Mind Reuniclus
Eviolite Chansey
Choice Band Azumarill
Air Balloon Heatran
Calm, Max defense investment Jellicent w/ Will O wisp, Surf, Shadow ball, and recover

Things I have problems with:
Strong focus sash special attackers like Alakazam & Gengar
Fast/Prankster Taunt
Mega Venusaur (I PP Stall then take them by surprise with a sudden switch)
I lack priority.
 
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Hi, I have some experience playing with dedicated sand teams, so maybe I can help. I decided to go with a sort of "team reorganization" approach. You'll see what I mean.

First off, I would recommend changing Tyranitar's set to a support variant. Why? Because simply put, you have all of the attacking bases covered right now. Excadrill and Garchomp do more than enough of a good job on the offensive side of things. Excadrill covers the speedy threats, Garchomp wallbreaks like none other. Furthermore, support Tyranitar is great at tanking special hits, which works extremely well in conjunction with Hippowdon's awesome physical defense. Here's what I would recommend:

Tyranitar @ Leftovers | Sand Stream
Careful / Sassy | 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Stealth Rock / Fire Blast | Rock Slide | Crunch | Pursuit

If you're ever having problems with Alakazam or Gengar like you mentioned, this is the set to look to. Neither can OHKO with Focus Blast thanks to Sandstorm. Also, feel free to replace Stealth Rock with some other move (Fire Blast and/or Superpower have their merits) if you'd rather keep Stealth Rock on Hippowdon, both of whom are equally great users of it.

Next, give Gliscor 244 HP EVs instead of 252. This nets you the maximum amount of per-turn recovery from Poison Heal, which is well worth giving up only two total HP points.

My next piece of advice is to change Roost to Protect on Gliscor. This allows you to stall out and actually beat anything slower than you, most notably defensive Rotom-W, who is a major threat to this team with its immunity to Ground-type attacks and access to Will-O-Wisp to hamper Ferrothorn's attempts to wear it down. With Substitute and Protect, you can stall out the PP of Hydro Pump and deny Rotom-W the ability to hurt you as you wear it down with Toxic.

OR... change Roost to Defog, and Substitute to Protect. Defog is another great option here, as it gives Excadrill the ability to dedicate more moveslots to sweeping. Substitute --> Protect because it's a more immediate source of healing and/or stalling.

My next change is similar: change Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn to Protect. You already have Stealth Rock on either Tyranitar or Hippowdon now, so there's absolutely no reason to keep it. With Protect, you can...
  • Stall for Leech Seed recovery, which is important since you have no Leftovers.
  • Stall for passive Sandstorm damage.
  • Do serious damage to Mega Medicham when it attempts to use High Jump Kick, which can actually rip through a lot of the Pokemon on this team.
Next: change Excadrill's EVs and moves to...

Excadrill @ Life Orb / Air Balloon | Sand Rush
Adamant | 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Earthquake | Rock Slide | Iron Head | Swords Dance

This set allows Excadrill to become the fearsome sweeper that Tyranitar attempted to be, only a lot easier to set up and stopped by a whole lot less things. Thanks to Tyranitar's improved longevity and Gliscor's possible taking over of hazard-clearing duties, Excadrill can run a dedicated sweeping set. This thing is one of the best late-game sweepers in existence, and it works exceptionally well with the rest of your team, seeing as there's many forms of chip damage being thrown around to wear down counters.

Now that you have a Mega slot free, change Garchomp to Mega Garchomp. Your team is quite in need of a wallbreaker—no matter how many times Excadrill might have an opportunity to sweep, it's not doing so if Skarmory's still alive. Therefore, Mega Garchomp fits the bill perfectly, utilizing its ability Sand Force to make grown Pokemon cry with STAB Earthquake.

Garchomp @ Garchompite | Rough Skin (Sand Force)
Naughty | 252 Atk / 88 SpA / 168 Spe
Earthquake / Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Stone Edge

This lets you beat stuff like Skarmory, Mega Venusaur, and so on. Basically just send it in whenever a wall needs to be taken care of and chances are this Pokemon can do it for you.

Now, one last thing to consider... you mentioned Priority Taunt users being a problem, and indeed, Sableye is capable of crippling most of this team. Conkeldurr is a great option to run, as Guts easily takes care of any status users such as Sableye. Conkeldurr also has great synergy with Tyranitar, as Tyranitar easily soaks up any Psychic- or Flying-type attacks aimed at Conkeldurr, and should Conkeldurr be an Assault Vest variant, can easily switch into random Scalds and Hydro Pumps aimed at Tyranitar.

Hope my advice helped! Let me know how it goes, and good luck.

Imperator (Tyranitar) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
- Fire Blast
- Rock Slide
- Pursuit
- Crunch

NaNaNaBatman (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 Def / 224 HP / 32 Spd
Bold Nature
- Earthquake
- Defog
- Protect
- Toxic

Prikle Tikle (Ferrothorn) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Fantasia (Hippowdon) @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off

Hans (Excadrill) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance

Bigger Jaws (Garchomp) @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 168 Spd / 88 SAtk
Naughty Nature
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Stone Edge
 
Lol, Gliscor was supposed to be 244 HP. I mixed them up when typing it in. I was under the impression it was impossible for Gliscor to have defog and his hidden ability, though. Pretty sure it's an illegal combination. Changing roost to protect is probably a smart move... I very rarely actually USE the roost, and have regretted the lack of protect more than a few times.

Assuming that I can't put defog on him, is it worth leaving rapid spin on Excadrill instead of Iron Head? I feel I might be able to live without rapid spin entirely, I don't have a single SR weakness on the entire team, and spikes are rare these days. But I'm not sure if he can afford to lose that much HP? I feel like the turn to SD + the life orb recoil would prevent him from doing a full sweep.

I agree with the verdict on ferrothorn. is there a better EV spread to use on him to avoid anything specific?

Now... The one thing i'm not sure about...

Tyranitar has been my MVP. Functioning as something of a special wall, and a monstrous setup sweeper. As long as there isn't a scizor or a hard mach punch lurking around the corner, he's been able to setup a few dances in front of a special attacker and clean house. I do like the idea of him being somewhat more invested in the special defense corner, as I'm relatively weak to them outside of him.

I DO love Mega Garchomp, and have wanted to find a niche for him. He just doesn't seem to break much unboosted, and if he's boosted he doesn't gain any notable KOs that a normal garchomp wouldn't, and suffers from lower speed.

What about using calm mind Reuniclus as a Wallbreaker, again?
 
Balnagghar said:
Lol, Gliscor was supposed to be 244 HP. I mixed them up when typing it in. I was under the impression it was impossible for Gliscor to have defog and his hidden ability, though. Pretty sure it's an illegal combination. Changing roost to protect is probably a smart move... I very rarely actually USE the roost, and have regretted the lack of protect more than a few times.

Assuming that I can't put defog on him, is it worth leaving rapid spin on Excadrill instead of Iron Head? I feel I might be able to live without rapid spin entirely, I don't have a single SR weakness on the entire team, and spikes are rare these days. But I'm not sure if he can afford to lose that much HP? I feel like the turn to SD + the life orb recoil would prevent him from doing a full sweep.

I agree with the verdict on ferrothorn. is there a better EV spread to use on him to avoid anything specific?

Now... The one thing i'm not sure about...

Tyranitar has been my MVP. Functioning as something of a special wall, and a monstrous setup sweeper. As long as there isn't a scizor or a hard mach punch lurking around the corner, he's been able to setup a few dances in front of a special attacker and clean house. I do like the idea of him being somewhat more invested in the special defense corner, as I'm relatively weak to them outside of him.

I DO love Mega Garchomp, and have wanted to find a niche for him. He just doesn't seem to break much unboosted, and if he's boosted he doesn't gain any notable KOs that a normal garchomp wouldn't, and suffers from lower speed.

What about using calm mind Reuniclus as a Wallbreaker, again?
Click to expand...

I tested out Gliscor with Poison Heal + Defog on Showdown, and it's legal. I'm not sure if that's a bug or something, though.

If you do need to put Rapid Spin on Excadrill, but don't like the idea of losing HP over spinning, Air Balloon's a perfectly acceptable item. The main problem with Excadrill as a spinner (in my opinion) is that the opponent can really wear you down if they predict the spin and stay in to attack, which can be really detrimental seeing as Excadrill doesn't have the best defenses. Sometimes, that alone is enough to end chances of a sweep.

As for Ferrothorn's EV spread, I'm not aware of any threat-specific EV spreads, but I would consider a specially defensive spread if you notice yourself switching Ferrothorn into more special attacks.

As for Mega Tyranitar, the problem with investing in defense is that it makes Tyranitar's sweeping job much harder. Unfortunately, due to the fact that Tyranitar NEEDS to be powerful enough to kill things before they kill him, a bulky Dragon Dance set really isn't that viable, imo. I think you should either go all-out investment in Attack and Speed, or all-out investment in HP and Special Defense.

Mega Garchomp IS slow, however, that's why it functions as a better wallbreaker than a late-game cleaner. I figured that Excadrill could handle late-game sweeping. My concern was that breaking past certain walls (Rotom-W, Skarmory, Weezing, Mega Venusaur, etc.) would be a nightmare without a powerful mixed attacker like Mega Garchomp.

I'm not so sure how I feel about Calm Mind Reuniclus, it's never been all that appealing to me. It's good against full stall, but only against full stall. I've found that using it against other bulky playstyles tends to not work well, and with its poor speed, tends to fall flat on its face against offense.
 
Hmm... Well, it might be legal on showdown. But he can only learn it as a HM Back in D/P/Pt, then trade to HG/SS and then forward, but there is no way for such a mon to have a HA. I can check into that more though.

With the omnipresence of ghosts, rapid spin may not be the most reliable strategy. Dealing with one dedicated spin blocker was fine, but it's not unlikely to go up against multiples, these days. Bisharp/Empoleon wouldn't cause many problems for my team, I have enough physical bulk.

You may be right on the tyranitar, though. Even without the HP, it hits the points I need to hit to avoid a lot of one and 2 KOs allowing me to get a ddance or two off. I may just be being stubborn, but I don't like walls that rely purely on leftovers recovery... What about setting up a wish passing set from Eviolite Chansey? Or would blissey be a better option so that I can run Leftovers to negate her sandstorm damage taken?

I like Mega Garchomp, so I've been running calcs. The OHKO on Skarmory isn't guaranteed without full Sp.Atk investment, the best I can do on Rotom-W is a 2HKO (and due to chestorest being much more commonly used than pain split, residual damage is usually enough to handle him anyway), Weezing would go down hard, and Mega Venusaur would win 1v1 with MegaChomp without full Sp. Atk investment. What was the purpose of the spread you listed?
 
Balnagghar said:
Hmm... Well, it might be legal on showdown. But he can only learn it as a HM Back in D/P/Pt, then trade to HG/SS and then forward, but there is no way for such a mon to have a HA. I can check into that more though.

With the omnipresence of ghosts, rapid spin may not be the most reliable strategy. Dealing with one dedicated spin blocker was fine, but it's not unlikely to go up against multiples, these days. Bisharp/Empoleon wouldn't cause many problems for my team, I have enough physical bulk.

You may be right on the tyranitar, though. Even without the HP, it hits the points I need to hit to avoid a lot of one and 2 KOs allowing me to get a ddance or two off. I may just be being stubborn, but I don't like walls that rely purely on leftovers recovery... What about setting up a wish passing set from Eviolite Chansey? Or would blissey be a better option so that I can run Leftovers to negate her sandstorm damage taken?

I like Mega Garchomp, so I've been running calcs. The OHKO on Skarmory isn't guaranteed without full Sp.Atk investment, the best I can do on Rotom-W is a 2HKO (and due to chestorest being much more commonly used than pain split, residual damage is usually enough to handle him anyway), Weezing would go down hard, and Mega Venusaur would win 1v1 with MegaChomp without full Sp. Atk investment. What was the purpose of the spread you listed?
Click to expand...

MegaVenu does not win 1v1 vs. MegaChomp, provided Sandstorm is up.

252+ Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur in Sand: 178-210 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

The spread I listed outspeeds max investment Adamant Mamoswine/Gyarados/Dragonite (Mamoswine is relevant because Icicle Crash can OHKO, Ice Shard cannot). You can play around with the attacking EVs as you see fit, but my recommendation is to at least outspeed those three.

If you're deciding between Chansey and Blissey to do Wishpassing, I personally prefer Chansey because it's a lot bulkier, but I would try both, particularly because of sandstorm. You may find that Blissey's the better choice, especially if keeping hazards off the field is harder than expected.
 
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