XY Suspect Testing Round 1 np: Michael Jackson - (extreme)Speed Demon (READ POST #1278)

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Hey guys don't mind me but I'm just gonna sound like a noob fuck for awhile. Alright first we had the almighty blaziken banned in both forms for good reasons. Then mega gengar and khangskhan. And now lucario. Which by the looks of it is definitely getting the ban hammer. But... After these mega pokemon. We only have good ones like pinsir and Mawile in ou while the rest are lower tier megas. Are megas going to be banned until only the shitty ones are left? (I hate mega aggron honestly it's not that bulky as it looks... Taking 30%+ from Rotom volt switch for a supposed unbreakable wall is pretty bad). Though I'm not saying this because my favourite mega is lucario. I'm just wondering how all this banning of mega pokemon is going. Like after awhile we realise nothing can safely switch into Mawile 's attacks. Even Talonflame and Volcarona are gonna be raped by rocks upon entry so they aren't really that good counters. Just my two cents feel free to give me your reasons and opinions.

Sounds more like you're addressing the possibility of other Megan rising in usage once lucario is gone, and that their increased usage will result in their bans, but that isn't true. The other megas are manageable. Mawile's danger comes from +2 sucker punch. Get something fast to burn her, or a bulky attacker with equake. The zards still fear rock type attacks. Etc..

If there were a problem with them, there would have been complaints as there were for the others.

Oh, and nitpick, mega aggron shouldn't be staying in on a special attacker anyway.
 
Mega Lucario is an interesting pokemon in that, it is imo, the most impressive pokemon on calcs. In a real battle, it is still rather threatening, I am glad to see none deny that, but it really depends on the situation at hand. The main reason Mega Skywalker gets his +2's are from coming in and forcing a defensive/weak pokemon out. It has a phenomenal speed tier. However, in this priority laden metagame, Lucario can't always 100% pull off a sweep, but I think this is because of how the meta is working. Stall and such is still viable, but we are pulling away from that to focus on BO/HO, and that is where Mega Luke can't always do the job. A team that puts enough pressure on the opponent has a fair chance at stopping the sweep before it happens, and Lucario's Non-Mega speed tier is to blame. You won't always get that moment when you can force a switch, because honestly? 90 isn't fast enough to beat out what it normally does as a mega. That is arguably Mega Anubis's biggest flaw, that a good player can put enough pressure on it to keep from reaching Game-Breaking levels.

Despite all of that, it has the traits of a broken Mega, and with team support, its looking like a very high chance of getting the banhammer.

^If any of the above appall you, please point it out.
 
Mega Lucario is an interesting pokemon in that, it is imo, the most impressive pokemon on calcs. In a real battle, it is still rather threatening, I am glad to see none deny that, but it really depends on the situation at hand. The main reason Mega Skywalker gets his +2's are from coming in and forcing a defensive/weak pokemon out. It has a phenomenal speed tier. However, in this priority laden metagame, Lucario can't always 100% pull off a sweep, but I think this is because of how the meta is working. Stall and such is still viable, but we are pulling away from that to focus on BO/HO, and that is where Mega Luke can't always do the job. A team that puts enough pressure on the opponent has a fair chance at stopping the sweep before it happens, and Lucario's Non-Mega speed tier is to blame. You won't always get that moment when you can force a switch, because honestly? 90 isn't fast enough to beat out what it normally does as a mega. That is arguably Mega Anubis's biggest flaw, that a good player can put enough pressure on it to keep from reaching Game-Breaking levels.

Despite all of that, it has the traits of a broken Mega, and with team support, its looking like a very high chance of getting the banhammer.

^If any of the above appall you, please point it out.
If you are sending Luke in on something that is both faster and can KO, you are doing something wrong.
 
Funnily enough, Talonflame can outspeed and kill genesect with FB, and do sizeable damage with Bravebird.
 
Funnily enough, Talonflame can outspeed and kill genesect with FB, and do sizeable damage with Bravebird.

Yet it has to fear Thunderbolt on trying to come in and Genesect may just be U-Turning out when it does switch in. Scarf Genesect is probably faster than Talonflame using FB anyway.
 
Yet it has to fear Thunderbolt on trying to come in and Genesect may just be U-Turning out when it does switch in. Scarf Genesect is probably faster than Talonflame using FB anyway.

Brave Bird still does sizeable damage, and Genesect is a case of a sacrificing a pokemon.
 
Keldeo couldn't force out more than half of the metagame while gaining momentum at the same time, and this makes all the difference. At least against Keldeo you could pack some of its checks / counters and be safe from it (Pokemon that were safe even against CB Tyranitar existed yeah), but with Genesect you don't only have to worry about him, but about his common Volt-turn teammates, which is a ridiculously high number of Pokemon.

Was there any reason why Scarf Genesect was tolerated for some time in the Gen 5 metagame before it was banned? It would seem the Rock Polish set made the difference.
 
I've wanted Genosect sent back to ubers for a while. It might be because I usually play to Showdown to test stuff, but Genosect is TOO good. With new tools like Extremespeed to give Genosect priority over your own priority and Blaze Kick to rock the physical set better, it's harder to beat than last time it was open for OU play. It's wide movepool is hard to get around and usually just ends with Genosect using U-turn, having switch advantage, knocking off a sizable amount of your health, and bringing in something better to deal with your newly switched pokemon (Yes, that's the point of U-turn, but Genosect scares almost every pokemon away with Bolt/Beam/Thrower). I personally want it gone so I don't have to use pokemon on my team that are there ONLY to counter it like bulky Heatran.

Mega Lucario I've only had one big problem with it: As soon as it sets up, my team is ruined. If I can switch in my scarfer, survive, and beat it with a super effective move, then I'm fine. Since this isn't always the case, I say send McLuke away as well. If it's banned, we still have plenty of mega options.

Deoxys-Speed I battle rarely. It's simply the fastest entry hazard user ever with a good movepool. I'd keep this one around a little longer. Even with Psycho Boost, it can't hit that hard with base 95 offenses. Give Deoxys-Speed a little more time to see if it's truly ban worthy.
 
If you are sending Luke in on something that is both faster and can KO, you are doing something wrong.

Thats kind of the point. HO/BO teams with enough offensive pressure can make it very hard for Mega/Lucario to come out and and and reach Broken mode. I've seen enough of this to know that with enough offensive pressure, Mega Lucario can't always waltz in whenever it wants to.
 
Brave Bird still does sizeable damage, and Genesect is a case of a sacrificing a pokemon.
That would apply to Mega-Lucario and other currently Uber pokemon as well like: Deoxys-A, Deoxys-N, Blaziken, Mega-Gengar, Shaymin-S.
It is as irrelevant as saying, it can be revange-killed by "insert random scarfer".
 
Was there any reason why Scarf Genesect was tolerated for some time in the Gen 5 metagame before it was banned? It would seem the Rock Polish set made the difference.
The Rock Polish set was what made Genesect obviously broken, however as i said, it was broken even without it, just not so obviously. Genesect is no simple case, as it's negative effect on the metagame is not so easy to single out and say: this is the broken element, which is why it took us so long to ban it. However, now that we have a lot of experience with it, we can immediately single out its broken elements and get rid of it immediately.
 
Reqs
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Damn the suspect ladder was a lot harder to climb, almost took me a full day. Probably because I was using a shit team that gets destroyed by any Mega Pinsir or CharizardY MY BAD. Landorus is a fucking beast now holy shit dem urfs. Also seeing a lot less AV Conkeldurr but it's still used to get around Rotom-W. I found that I had more opportunities to double switch on this ladder than on the OU ladder, maybe because I don't have to fear Genesect 24/7 anymore. I definitely saw a lot more stall than on the OU ladder so you can see what kind of impact one or two Pokémon can have. But I'm seeing a lot more variety in teams as well which is really nice. I don't think Deoxys-S would be overpowering or centralizing in any way here though so I'm still not sure about that one. Also saw a lot more frailer teams than usual Keldeo, Landorus, Thundurus and shit popping out.
 
I iz sad now. I just found out today about Mega Luke being suspect, and now it looks like the banhammer is a done deal. The evidence against him is overwhelming, and I've yet to see any solid counterarguments. I'm glad Gamefreak decided to give him a competitive boost this gen, it's just a shame they gave him too much. I think Adaptability is what pushed him over the OU edge. Virtually anything else and he probably would have been more fair. Now I'll be seeing even less of him.
 
I iz sad now. I just found out today about Mega Luke being suspect, and now it looks like the banhammer is a done deal. The evidence against him is overwhelming, and I've yet to see any solid counterarguments. I'm glad Gamefreak decided to give him a competitive boost this gen, it's just a shame they gave him too much. I think Adaptability is what pushed him over the OU edge. Virtually anything else and he probably would have been more fair. Now I'll be seeing even less of him.
Fret not, 112 speed is certainly not bad in Ubers, it can also deal super effective damage to Xerneas and that other think (Yveltal?). It still would be an amazing Pokémon Uber or not. Those defenses hurt though, in Ubers ;-;

It seems like MegaLucario
•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
Will need to adapt...
 
Fret not, 112 speed is certainly not bad in Ubers, it can also deal super effective damage to Xerneas and that other think (Yveltal?). It still would be an amazing Pokémon Uber or not. Those defenses hurt though, in Ubers ;-;

It seems like MegaLucario
•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
Will need to adapt...

True, but I'm talking about OU. After 4th Gen, Luke use went down drastically. Everyone was using Terrakion and Head-boner instead.
 
True, but I'm talking about OU. After 4th Gen, Luke use went down drastically. Everyone was using Terrakion and Head-boner instead.
Why was my comment deleted, I wonder!

Terrakion is incredibly good, however Lucario with a scarf can out speed ( I think)
 
I have played both the OU ladder and OU suspect ladder and have good ranks in both to say that Mega Luc needs to be banned while Deoxys-S can stay. Gene is 50/50. The OU suspect ladder is simply more fun and I have seen different combinations of Pokemon teams which I would not see in the OU ladder because of the tendency of players to simply throw a Mega Luc on their team to increase their chances of winning. As a result of this teams were not very diversified and created a less creative environment. I had to carry two Mega Luc counters just because of the high chances of there being a Mega Luc on the other team. However, the OU suspect ladder has new types of teams which makes the ladder much more fun. I have not yet formed an opinion on Genesect because it does not really centralize the metagame as much as Mega Luc and I will lead the voters up to this one.
 
Deoxys-S IS a threat, but mega lucario and genesect in my opinion, based online battles are probably too powerful for the OU. Maybe They will find the right counters and checks for these two offensive presences though...It seems like gen VI has ramped up defensive pivots and tanks (mega venasaur & friends). Mega lucario seems like the biggest option for a ban, genesect seems like a choice but it has its counters.
 
Deoxys-S IS a threat, but mega lucario and genesect in my opinion, based online battles are probably too powerful for the OU. Maybe They will find the right counters and checks for these two offensive presences though...It seems like gen VI has ramped up defensive pivots and tanks (mega venasaur & friends). Mega lucario seems like the biggest option for a ban, genesect seems like a choice but it has its counters.

I also think Mega Luc will be the last mega banned. The next would seem to be Mega Pinsir and the Charizards but these fit into OU because of a larger number of counters for the three of them.
 
Mega lucario 2hkos pretty much everything but still it has to come in safely in the first place. Though the steel typing gives it's many resistances. I've used it enough to notice it doesn't even take resisted hits that well. Also it has to find opportunity to evolve on something slower than itself otherwise it'll get wrecked anyways.
It's kinda like... If you can find opportunity to bring it in safely. Something dies. But then again it's still revenge kill able especially since cc drops your defenses. Talonflame brave bird should be enough anyways. (on a side not the damage difference for lv 100 and lv 50 may change a few calcs. I was ohkoed by Talonflame brave bird at lv 50 but not 100.could have been a high roll but yeah I dunno)
Edit :Banded Talonflame
 
Mega Lucario is obviously the "Broken" Mega, but I did want to brig something up. The kind people on Lucario's thread, one of them mentioned a way to break through its standard Physical wall checks, most notably Gliscor. This set trades the ability to do damage to Aegislash for a way to snap its checks in half at +2. A gimmicky option, but it is more a testament to Mega Lucario's sheer power.

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 306-362 (86.4 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 306-362 (86.4 - 102.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I'm not saying use this move. I'm saying that if you have the ability to fucking break through Gliscor like that, you better be packing a scarf, or this thing will destroy your team.

(Gliscor takes enough damage from CC already, this is simply what adaptability enables MLuke to do).
 
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