Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[v-mon]

Chansey in a higher rank than Blissey? It doesn't make any sense. Actually, I nominate Chansey for B- at most because of the now much more commmon Knock Off, which makes Chansey pretty much useless without its Eviolite. Porygon2 should also go down a couple of tiers because of that same reason.
Blissey on the other hand, let her in B. In this short time experimenting with gen 6 I haven't had many problems against Blissey at all, not like in past gens.

 

[Pipotchi]

Regular Gardevoir's niche is being able to bluff Mega at preview and the benefit of gaining fairy typing. It's not top tier, but suddenly revenge killing with a scarf set while your opponent expected the mega is quite useful.

No, if mega gardevoir is written on the list separately you should not be considering mega gardevoir at all on regular gardevoirs standing. If this is the case, then regular lucario needs to be at S rank with the mega, because it can bluff being a mega. Infact if this is the case (as i said before) then all megas need to be removed from the list and the regular forms should just be written instead.. but while they are listed as separate entities, they have to ranked completely separate to each other (in the same way that combos are not taken into consideration when ranking individual pokemon- genesect does not get paired with heatran and both ranked higher due to heatran "buffing" genesect by discouraging fire moves)

Normal Gardevoir is not as bulky or strong as Mega Gardevoir, but its scarf set is good and has a niche. Gardevoir is a very strong pokemon with STAB on Psychic and Fairy moves, in a addition to a huge offensive movepool, that doesn't cost a mega slot. If you want to focus a team on Gardevoir, certainly use its Mega form. But, if you want a strong Psychic/Fairy type to either sweep with its large offensive movepool or support with its large supportive movepool, and yet have your heart set on including Mega Aggron on your team, Gardevoir is a completely viable choice. It wasn't ranked last generation, and wasn't so largely due to its poor defensive typing (weak to three common types) and mediocre offensive typing (only hits two types supper effectively, while resisted by two and one immune). Now, its overall typing is much better, as it is only weak to one common type and can now hit four types super effectively with its STAB.

Overall I'd honestly place it as B-, as its only slightly outclassed by mega gardevoir, and only so if you chose Mega gardevoir to be your mega.

Also I really dont see anything regular gardevoir does better than clefable or sylveon, so it definitely should be pushed down to C minimum imo. It has psychic as a dual stab, but I can only really see that as a negative on a support pokemon, and if you're looking for pure offense then other pokemon completely outclass, for example sylveon who has better defenses, no psychic weaknesses and hits way harder due to pixilate. I really dont think regular Gardevoir supports better than even espeon as a psychic type, and espeon is C+, and if you are looking to abuse trace then you probably should be going for porygon2 who offers the bulk and overall stats to use it well, and hes in C. I'd put regular Gardevoir in C- maximum honestly- shes not got any niche in the meta apart from trace user that isnt item dependant. As a scarfer I definitely think she is struggling to compete with espeon too, her only bonus being not weak to pursuit trapping. That being said she will still get the crap smacked out of her by pursuit either way.
If you disagree I'd like to see some actual examples of where regular gardevoir actually outdoes the other B tier (or even C tier) utility, offensive or defensive mons. She just sorta seems to be a weird mix of the 3 that doesnt excel at any of the roles.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Chansey in a higher rank than Blissey? It doesn't make any sense. Actually, I nominate Chansey for B- at most because of the now much more commmon Knock Off, which makes Chansey pretty much useless without its Eviolite. Porygon2 should also go down a couple of tiers because of that same reason.
Blissey on the other hand, let her in B. In this short time experimenting with gen 6 I haven't had many problems against Blissey at all, not like in past gens.

Porygon2 is certainly not a D rank pokemon! It's not a common pokemon, but it does its job as a bulky (as hell) tank very well. Also, why would you stay in on a knock off in the first place if you're Porygon2? It's similar to staying in on a close combat if you're a Tyrannitar. Every pokemon has its flaws, and a reliance on eviolite is one of Porygon2's. But, unlike Chansey, it isn't completely debilitated if it loses its item, as 85/90/95 bulk with 105 Sp. Attack is still good. In all honesty, I'd consider moving Porygon2 up to C+ rank, as really only three things bother it: Strong (usually physical) fighting moves, toxic, and knock off.

I won't even go into Chansey/Blissey, as that seems to be a very heated topic people get crazy about.

 

[Haru Piro]

Scarf + Trace can Revenge kill Swift Swimmers, Multy Scale, Intimidates, and more.
But B is pretty high, Gardevoir should be C.

 

[Punchshroom]

Also I really dont see anything regular gardevoir does better than clefable or sylveon, so it definitely should be pushed down to C minimum imo. It has psychic as a dual stab, but I can only really see that as a negative on a support pokemon, and if you're looking for pure offense then other pokemon completely outclass, for example sylveon who has better defenses, no psychic weaknesses and hits way harder due to pixilate. I really dont think regular Gardevoir supports better than even espeon as a psychic type, and espeon is C+, and if you are looking to abuse trace then you probably should be going for porygon2 who offers the bulk and overall stats to use it well, and hes in C. I'd put regular Gardevoir in C- maximum honestly- shes not got any niche in the meta apart from trace user that isnt item dependant. As a scarfer I definitely think she is struggling to compete with espeon too, her only bonus being not weak to pursuit trapping. That being said she will still get the crap smacked out of her by pursuit either way.
If you disagree I'd like to see some actual examples of where regular gardevoir actually outdoes the other B tier (or even C tier) utility, offensive or defensive mons. She just sorta seems to be a weird mix of the 3 that doesnt excel at any of the roles.

Regular Gardevoir's main niche is being an effective Fairy-type Scarfer, so she does not face direct competition with fast Psychic-types at all (One can even forgo running Psychic moves on Garde). If one wanted an offensive Psychic-type, Deoxys-S and Alakazam / Mega Alakazam make much better options, while Sylveon and Latias support better as their respective types. No other Pokemon in the tier offers a fast, powerful Fairy-type move, as Mega Gardevoir just misses out on tempting targets such as Garchomp, Keldeo, Lati@s, Greninja, and etc. Gardevoir even knows moves such as Trick, Memento, Destiny Bond, and Healing Wish should it become dead weight; Trick is useless on MegaVoir, while sacrificial moves aren't exactly the best way to use your Mega.

 

[Lcs865]

Just gonna throw out a few suggestions

Mega Houndoom for D Rank:
Ah yes, the worst mega out there. Mega Houndoom is plagued with terribad defensive typing and weakness to nearly all priority. However, it can hit like a bus in Sun (although it is a bit niche but I am saying D rank), and a Nasty Plot on 140 SpA is nothing to be fucked with.

Jirachi for B Rank:
I'm assuming that nobody noticed this wasn't on the thread. Seriously, Jirachi has a number of sets that can do a lot against most of the metagame, like ParaFlinch, Scarf Iron Head, wish pass, CM, hell it can be a suicide lead if you damn well please. The knock off buff and steel nerf certainly don't help it maintain a position, but I feel like B rank is fitting for Rachi.

Thundurus-T for B- Rank:
Thundurus-Therian is a premier Special Attacker within the tier. With immunity to electric moves to let it safely switch in on common Volt Switchers then continue to either set up a nasty plot or deal huge damage, it is deserving of a higher rank.

 

[TheRogerRabbit]

Can someone please explain why Jirachi is not on this list? Any form of Jirachi is viable, ie: specs, scarf, or flinchrachi.
Also, I believe that P-2 should be higher solely because of the fact that it is bulky on both sides and has reliable recovery.
Garchomp-Mega should not be the same rank as regular Garchomp. Granted, normally it can kill something but after that, any STAB ice move destroys it. Especially with the lowered speed stat.

 

[Salt]

Just gonna throw out a few suggestions

Mega Houndoom for D Rank:
Ah yes, the worst mega out there. Mega Houndoom is plagued with terribad defensive typing and weakness to nearly all priority. However, it can hit like a bus in Sun (although it is a bit niche but I am saying D rank), and a Nasty Plot on 140 SpA is nothing to be fucked with.

lolwut

Pretty damn sure that nuclear base 140 Special Attack, blistering base 115 speed, access to Nasty Plot, and excellent offensive typing constitute a much higher viability ranking than the likes of Donphan, non-Mega Mawile, and Mr. Mime. Defensive typing and bulk mean jack shit on a fast sweeper like Mega Houndoom and even the priority weaknesses shouldn't tank its rank that much.

 

[6feetunder]

mega houndoom for D rank is a joke. if any mega belongs in D rank, it's abomasnow. horrendous speed, terrible defensive typing, extremely high opportunity cost for using it (burning your mega slot on a mediocre mon when you could be using lucario, venusaur, charizard, etc.). no clue wtf that thing is doing in C+ lol.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Mega Houndoom for D Rank:
Ah yes, the worst mega out there. Mega Houndoom is plagued with terribad defensive typing and weakness to nearly all priority. However, it can hit like a bus in Sun (although it is a bit niche but I am saying D rank), and a Nasty Plot on 140 SpA is nothing to be fucked with.

Uh.

Mega Houndoom is way too strong to be considered for D, it's easily the most criminally overlooked mega. You're comparing it to Mister fucking Mime here. Weakness to nearly all priority? It resists Bullet Punch, Ice Shard, Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak and is weak to Aqua Jet and Mach Punch so it actually resists most priority. Dark/Fire a bad defensive typing but it's a really good offensive typing. Dark is such a spammable attack type, and Fire mostly hits anything that resists Dark.

It doesn't need no stinking sun. Nasty Plot is all it needs, STAB +2 Dark Pulses or Fireblasts coming off of 140 special attack hurt, and at 115 base speed it's one of the fastest megas. It's also got Destiny Bond so it can take most things that could otherwise check it down with it.

The only mega form I'd nominate for D rank is Banette. Generally outclassed by Sableye, is not much use outside of priority Destiny Bond.

 

[Lcs865]

lolwut

Pretty damn sure that nuclear base 140 Special Attack, blistering base 115 speed, access to Nasty Plot, and excellent offensive typing constitute a much higher viability ranking than the likes of Donphan, non-Mega Mawile, and Mr. Mime. Defensive typing and bulk mean jack shit on a fast sweeper like Mega Houndoom and even the priority weaknesses shouldn't tank its rank that much.

I guess I can't really disagree here, but the defensive drawbacks and wasting the mega slot on your team make it pretty heavily supported or else it won't work

 

[TheUltimateStorm]

I guess I can't really disagree here, but the defensive drawbacks and wasting the mega slot on your team make it pretty heavily supported or else it won't work

First of all, The whole "Wasting the Mega Slot" has really become a pet peeve of mine, because EVERY. SINGLE. MEGA. DOES. THE. SAME. Mega Abomasnow, something that's as slow as Slowbro and has two of the most horrid defensive typings in the game and it's C+ so I don't see what the defensive drawbacks thing is doing if Mega Abomasnow can make it to C+. I mean really, Mega Houndoom outclasses pretty much everything in D Rank by a Mile, saying that Mega Houndoom is in the same league as non Mega Mawile and Mr. Mime is just... no, just no. It's not the best Mega, but it's sure as hell better then Mr. Mime and Weezing.

 

[Aragorn the King]

mega houndoom for D rank is a joke. if any mega belongs in D rank, it's abomasnow. horrendous speed, terrible defensive typing, extremely high opportunity cost for using it (burning your mega slot on a mediocre mon when you could be using lucario, venusaur, charizard, etc.). no clue wtf that thing is doing in C+ lol.

Mega Abomasnow is really good. It is very hard to switch into and packs quite a punch with Wood Hammer and Blizzard. Also, its bad speed is partially made up for with a very powerful Ice Shard. Mega Abomasnow has fantastic coverage options; for example it can nail fire switch ins with a powerful EQ. Also, while it doesn't have the best defensive typing, it does have phenomenal defensive stats for an offensive pokemon. Additionally, its typing lets it counter Rotom Wash, the most used pokemon right now, and also switch in on three relatively common types.

Mega Abomasnow is not fantastic, but it's definitely better than you make it out to be. A pokemon doesn't need to be fast or have a good typing to be viable; just look at Breloom, Chesnaught, and Tyrannitar.

 

[Lcs865]

First of all, The whole "Wasting the Mega Slot" has really become a pet peeve of mine, because EVERY. SINGLE. MEGA. DOES. THE. SAME. Mega Abomasnow, something that's as slow as Slowbro and has two of the most horrid defensive typings in the game and it's C+ so I don't see what the defensive drawbacks thing is doing if Mega Abomasnow can make it to C+. I mean really, Mega Houndoom outclasses pretty much everything in D Rank by a Mile, saying that Mega Houndoom is in the same league as non Mega Mawile and Mr. Mime is just... no, just no. It's not the best Mega, but it's sure as hell better then Mr. Mime and Weezing.

When I say wasting a Mega slot, I mean that you're losing the opportunity to run a move competitively viable mega such as ZardX/Y, Lucario, ect.

 

[lalala45]

I'd like to Nominate Mega Houndoom and Durant in these rankings, in which I'll state their places after my explanation of their capabilities.

Facing competition from a more common mega called Charizard-Y, what does Mega Houndoom have to bring to the table? 2 things:
I: Much more power at its disposal, along with an actual boosting move to take advantage of it.
II: A higher speed tier, matching up to very important pokemon.

I: More Power
- Mega Houndoom's ability Solar power allows its stab Fire blast and dark pulse to reach to power levels that rival Reshiram's expertise in Ubers, allowing it to at least 2hko pokemon that its competition, Charizard-Y, cannot. 3.375 stab Fire blasts (sun+solar power+ stab) hurt a butt-ton, in which resists to the Fire Dark stab combo don't even matter anymore. Watch as specially defensive mons like Blissey are no match for the powerful hound from Hades himself!

252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey in Sun: 328-387 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

That is impressive, which makes Mega Houndoom fulfill the role of a great wallbreaker that isn't to be messed with, whereas in the case of charizard-y, its more likely that mons like blissey and sylveon are able to stall him out through recovery and toxic stalling, etc. Having the chance to avoid all that with Mega Houndoom makes it a pretty good choice for a mega slot. Even better it gets Nasty Plot, allowing it to wallbreak with more Power at its disposal. After a Nasty Plot in the sun, spdef tran gets 2hkoed with a minmum of 74%.

II: Higher Speed
- Mega Houndoom reaches a speed tier of base 115, allowing it to outspeed very important mons such as the lati twins, gengar, mega lucario, and speed tying with azelf and starmie, in which he can obliterate with its fire and dark stab respectively. Outspeeding the musketeers from last gen also helps, as well as mega pinsir, the incarnate forms of the genies, garchomp, etc.

Despite all these good attributes, there is a reason why mega charizard Y is preferred. Much more durability with roost and a good specially defensive stat of 115, as well as a decent fire/flying typing, mega charizard Y is able to last longer, while Mega Houndoom is put on a timer with the solar power side effect as well as taking a turn for another mon to set up sun for him. With all this taking into consideration, I consider Mega Houndoom a B-/B ranking.


Durant: Facing competition from scizor and genesect, what does durant bring to the table?
I: Higher speed
II: Immediate Power
III: Best physical coverage out of all the bug/steels.

I: Higher speed
- Durant sits at a base speed of 109, outspeeding a lot of key mons, especially the majority of fire types up to infernape, as well as the musketeers, chomp, etc. Being able to outspeed them is a godsend, because it can't be checked by any of these mons without taking huge damage first thanks to its immediate power and physical coverage.

II: Immediate Power
- Durant's hustle ability is basically a free choice band with the ability to switch your moves; top it off with a life orb, and you can do more damage than an adamant scizor or escavlier. Take this into account:

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 471-556 (125.9 - 148.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

In comparison: 252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 450-530 (120.3 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

See? Scizor has to have a choice band and an adamant nature in order to even come close to durant's damage output, whereas durant doesn't have to, which greatly improves durant's wallbreaking capabilities. Even better, durant gets hone claws to fix that accuracy side effect of hustle, making it hit even harder with no drawbacks. It even 2hkos skarmory and hippowdon after a boost.

III: Best physical coverage out of all the bug/steels
- Let me give you a list of durant's coverage moves: iron head, crunch, x-scissor, thunder fang, stone edge/rock slide, and superpower.
- compare that to scizor's: bug bite/u-turn, iron head/bullet punch, knock off, acrobatics, superpower.
- and genesect's: u-turn/x-scissor, iron head, blaze kick, extremespeed.
- and escavilier's: megahorn, iron head, drill run, knock off, double edge.

Durant hits more supereffective coverage on the physical side in comparison to all the other bug/steels, hitting bulky waters like gyarados, every fire type in existence, mandibuzz and other flying types, as well as bulky ghosts and psychics, ferrothorn, skarmory and more.

It has some drawbacks however, its the most frail out of all the bug/steels, especially with a 44 spdef stat, meaning its very hard to find an oppurtunity to boost. priority is everywhere, and Lando-t (defensive) is a menace to it. With all this in consideration, I propose a C+/B- range.

 

[Pipotchi]

Regular Gardevoir's main niche is being an effective Fairy-type Scarfer, so she does not face direct competition with fast Psychic-types at all (One can even forgo running Psychic moves on Garde). If one wanted an offensive Psychic-type, Deoxys-S and Alakazam / Mega Alakazam make much better options, while Sylveon and Latias support better as their respective types. No other Pokemon in the tier offers a fast, powerful Fairy-type move, as Mega Gardevoir just misses out on tempting targets such as Garchomp, Keldeo, Lati@s, Greninja, and etc. Gardevoir even knows moves such as Trick, Memento, Destiny Bond, and Healing Wish should it become dead weight; Trick is useless on MegaVoir, while sacrificial moves aren't exactly the best way to use your Mega.

Her support set is definitely not outclassing clefable, and those moves cant be used with the choice scarf set (her only niche), unless you are relying entirely on her relatively mediocre stab coverage + trick + healing wish/destiny bond or w/e. I can see it working but once she loses her scarf she is really nothing special as a mon, and with a really underwhelming combo of psyshock/psychic + moonblast she isnt going to be the revenge killer you need half the time. If you are hoping to revenge dragons then mamoswine is going to be better due his ability to hit several dragons for 4x. Trying to revenge kill dark types like Bisharp will resort to her getting smacked in the face with a 56% chance of ohko sucker punch. She can revenge fighting types pretty well but so can all the other psychic type scarfs.
You're right that she definitely has SOME sort of niche.. but I doubt the value of the niche in OU in particular. That being said I'll try her out, although I'm doubtful. Maybe she's just the sort of pokemon that you need to use to comprehend or something.


Edit: also although healing wish and destiny bond are obviously good moves, it kinda says something about the pokemon when the highlights of their movepool are dying so the opponent's more useful pokemon dies, or dying so a more useful teammate can take over. *drives his gardevoir hate-train into the distance*

 

[effyouzion]

Mega Ampharos should be B+

Really disappointed that he's not ranked. He's a perfect glue member for plenty of teams, hard countering Rotom-W, Talonflame and any mega Char-Y that goes for focus blast instead of EQ (and even then EQ is only a 3HKO). He's just as bulky on the special side as mega Venusaur and has a great typing that resists all the fire and flying attacks that are around. His only downside is that if you use him, you can't use the overpowered Luc/Pinsir and spam HO teams to the top of the ladder.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-87639792

^ Replay that shows him doing his thing. He manhandles Rotom-W and CharY, two of the most common pokes in the tier. I really think that once these overpowered megas (and the Deoxys that set hazards for them) are out of the metagame, mega Ampharos will be a top mon. Until then, he's a solid B+: good enough to get you close to the top of the ladder but will struggle vs. Deoxys + Luc/Pinsir hyper offense.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Mega Ampharos should be B+

Really disappointed that he's not ranked. He's a perfect glue member for plenty of teams, hard countering Rotom-W, Talonflame and any mega Char-Y that goes for focus blast instead of EQ (and even then EQ is only a 3HKO). He's just as bulky on the special side as mega Venusaur and has a great typing that resists all the fire and flying attacks that are around. His only downside is that if you use him, you can't use the overpowered Luc/Pinsir and spam HO teams to the top of the ladder.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-87639792

^ Replay that shows him doing his thing. He manhandles Rotom-W and CharY, two of the most common pokes in the tier. I really think that once these overpowered megas (and the Deoxys that set hazards for them) are out of the metagame, mega Ampharos will be a top mon. Until then, he's a solid B+: good enough to get you close to the top of the ladder but will struggle vs. Deoxys + Luc/Pinsir hyper offense.

Don't forget how he completely counters Talonflame! I'd put Mega Ampharos at B or B+ for the reasons you stated.

 

[Lcs865]

Don't forget how he completely counters Talonflame! I'd put Mega Ampharos at B or B+ for the reasons you stated.

Mega Ampharos's main issues are it's near unforgivable speed tier and useless ability, but for the reasons stated, I would have to say B could be a more fitting rank

 

[effyouzion]

Mega Ampharos's main issues are it's near unforgivable speed tier and useless ability, but for the reasons stated, I would have to say B could be a more fitting rank

The speed is an advantage when you use him as a pivot. The slow volt switch means you get in whatever you want without it taking a hit.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Mega Ampharos's main issues are it's near unforgivable speed tier and useless ability, but for the reasons stated, I would have to say B could be a more fitting rank

I actually like its low speed as it allows to be a bulky slow volt switcher. But you are right, Mold Breaker is pretty useless. The only use I can see is not letting manetric switch into its electric moves and get a Lightning Rod boost.

 

[Salt]

The one major thing that hold Mega Ampharos back is complete lack of recovery. Not even Leftovers. Which is a pretty big deal on a slow, bulky pivot. With no way to recover off those hits it takes from Charizard/Talonflame/etc, it becomes very easy to wear down and as such, Mega Ampharos can't do it's job for very long. For example, in the beginning that replay, Charizard's Fire Blast did 33%, which means it could only come in and take that a maximum of two more times to take that hit. Plus, Mega Ampharos has absolutely unsalvageable speed. Slow Volt Switch is nice, but Ampharos would really love to avoid taking certain hits before getting its own hit off. Mold Breaker is also useless on it. B- or even C+ is probably better.

Edit: Ninja'd by a variety of people. Still, the points stand.

 

[Ruffles]

I'd like to Nominate Mega Houndoom and Durant in these rankings, in which I'll state their places after my explanation of their capabilities.

Facing competition from a more common mega called Charizard-Y, what does Mega Houndoom have to bring to the table? 2 things:
I: Much more power at its disposal, along with an actual boosting move to take advantage of it.
II: A higher speed tier, matching up to very important pokemon.

I: More Power
- Mega Houndoom's ability Solar power allows its stab Fire blast and dark pulse to reach to power levels that rival Reshiram's expertise in Ubers, allowing it to at least 2hko pokemon that its competition, Charizard-Y, cannot. 3.375 stab Fire blasts (sun+solar power+ stab) hurt a butt-ton, in which resists to the Fire Dark stab combo don't even matter anymore. Watch as specially defensive mons like Blissey are no match for the powerful hound from Hades himself!

252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey in Sun: 328-387 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

That is impressive, which makes Mega Houndoom fulfill the role of a great wallbreaker that isn't to be messed with, whereas in the case of charizard-y, its more likely that mons like blissey and sylveon are able to stall him out through recovery and toxic stalling, etc. Having the chance to avoid all that with Mega Houndoom makes it a pretty good choice for a mega slot. Even better it gets Nasty Plot, allowing it to wallbreak with more Power at its disposal. After a Nasty Plot in the sun, spdef tran gets 2hkoed with a minmum of 74%.

II: Higher Speed
- Mega Houndoom reaches a speed tier of base 115, allowing it to outspeed very important mons such as the lati twins, gengar, mega lucario, and speed tying with azelf and starmie, in which he can obliterate with its fire and dark stab respectively. Outspeeding the musketeers from last gen also helps, as well as mega pinsir, the incarnate forms of the genies, garchomp, etc.

Despite all these good attributes, there is a reason why mega charizard Y is preferred. Much more durability with roost and a good specially defensive stat of 115, as well as a decent fire/flying typing, mega charizard Y is able to last longer, while Mega Houndoom is put on a timer with the solar power side effect as well as taking a turn for another mon to set up sun for him. With all this taking into consideration, I consider Mega Houndoom a B-/B ranking.

Durant: Facing competition from scizor and genesect, what does durant bring to the table?
I: Higher speed
II: Immediate Power
III: Best physical coverage out of all the bug/steels.

I: Higher speed
- Durant sits at a base speed of 109, outspeeding a lot of key mons, especially the majority of fire types up to infernape, as well as the musketeers, chomp, etc. Being able to outspeed them is a godsend, because it can't be checked by any of these mons without taking huge damage first thanks to its immediate power and physical coverage.

II: Immediate Power
- Durant's hustle ability is basically a free choice band with the ability to switch your moves; top it off with a life orb, and you can do more damage than an adamant scizor or escavlier. Take this into account:

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 471-556 (125.9 - 148.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

In comparison: 252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 450-530 (120.3 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

See? Scizor has to have a choice band and an adamant nature in order to even come close to durant's damage output, whereas durant doesn't have to, which greatly improves durant's wallbreaking capabilities. Even better, durant gets hone claws to fix that accuracy side effect of hustle, making it hit even harder with no drawbacks. It even 2hkos skarmory and hippowdon after a boost.

III: Best physical coverage out of all the bug/steels
- Let me give you a list of durant's coverage moves: iron head, crunch, x-scissor, thunder fang, stone edge/rock slide, and superpower.
- compare that to scizor's: bug bite/u-turn, iron head/bullet punch, knock off, acrobatics, superpower.
- and genesect's: u-turn/x-scissor, iron head, blaze kick, extremespeed.
- and escavilier's: megahorn, iron head, drill run, knock off, double edge.

Durant hits more supereffective coverage on the physical side in comparison to all the other bug/steels, hitting bulky waters like gyarados, every fire type in existence, mandibuzz and other flying types, as well as bulky ghosts and psychics, ferrothorn, skarmory and more.

It has some drawbacks however, its the most frail out of all the bug/steels, especially with a 44 spdef stat, meaning its very hard to find an oppurtunity to boost. priority is everywhere, and Lando-t (defensive) is a menace to it. With all this in consideration, I propose a C+/B- range.

I agree on Mega Doom on B-.

Durant is really good on Gravity teams, fast, ACTUALLY likes the accuracy rase of Hone Claws, and has a boosting ability in form of Hustle, but crappy 58 HP and 48 SpD is crappy, missing b/c of hustle is annoying, and finally, it has a horrendous weakness to fire. Unlike Scizor, it doesn't have Priority, good HP, good SpD, U-Turn, and a better ability in from of Technician. So don't compare them. STAB bug isn't the best in OU, fairies are quite common, and Ghosts are even more common.

Not having U-Turn kinda hurts it, and Knock off is really good on Scizor so you are also missing out on Drill run or ground coverage in general. So Coverage isn't that great with Durant. And it gets OHKO-ed easily.

Thought I think it deserves C/C+ rank, but not B-

 

[Salt]

Well, there always is wish (and to a lesser extent) leech seed support from its teammates. Sure, its not a real recovery move, but it's not like it is impossible to heal a pokemon without reliable recovery. I still think B is the best place for it.

I think access to Wish, and the ability to support the team with Wish passing by extension, is more about the Wish user's viability than the recipient's. Sure, Ampharos loves Wish or Leech Seed support, but that support can often be difficult to provide in practice. Also, the Wish support argument can be applied to any defensive mon without recovery (read: Rotom-W, Heatran) but isn't a factor in their current rankings. I don't think Mega Ampharos is a bad Pokemon, I just don't think we should be too generous in handing out rankings. C+/B- seems the most logical, B is acceptable, and B+ would be pushing your luck.

 

[Lcs865]

Another thing I noticed not having a rank for some reason:

Cloyster for B/B- Rank:
Cloyster didn't get effected very much by the Gen 6 shift, but the increasing prominence of priority, making a sash set less usable, and Cloyster's already lackluster typing put Cloyster in B/B- rank