Chesnaught wins 1v1 since it can outstall Giga Drain PP with Synthesis, and can take advantage of it coming one by setting up Spikes on standard Mega Venu. Feel free to explain to me what a counter is.
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Other Creative / Underrated Sets Thread (Read the thread, NO SHITTY GIMMICKS)
- Thread starter ginganinja
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Chesnaught wins 1v1 since it can outstall Giga Drain PP with Synthesis, and can take advantage of it coming one by setting up Spikes on standard Mega Venu. Feel free to explain to me what a counter is.
Sludge Bomb is pretty standard on Mega Venusaur.
Defensive Mega Venusaur vs. Standard Support Chesnaught
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chesnaught: 290-344 (76.3 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Offensive Mega Venusaur vs. Standard Support Chesnaught
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chesnaught: 390-462 (102.6 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Chesnaught is immune to Sludge Bomb due to its ability.
Couldn't you just max out Defense because Light Screen already takes care of the special side.
I'll post this. Used it recently on HO.
Cinccino @ Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Rock Blast
- Tail Slap
- Bullet Seed
- Knock Off
An AMAZING lead for HO. It can take out Galvantula and deal with Rotom-W. It may have a low base Attack, but Life Orb+Skill Link is amazing. I can blow through the common ground and water types. It leaves a mini trail of destruction in its path and is good to open up my remaining Pokemon for a clean sweep. It is really awesome and I suggest using it if you have problems with Sticky Web.
Cinccino @ Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Rock Blast
- Tail Slap
- Bullet Seed
- Knock Off
An AMAZING lead for HO. It can take out Galvantula and deal with Rotom-W. It may have a low base Attack, but Life Orb+Skill Link is amazing. I can blow through the common ground and water types. It leaves a mini trail of destruction in its path and is good to open up my remaining Pokemon for a clean sweep. It is really awesome and I suggest using it if you have problems with Sticky Web.
Metronome will not power up individual hits of multi-hit moves (such as Rock Blast) unless they are used consecutively.
What? Venusaur can stall PP just as fine as it knows Synthesis too, and some Mega Venusaurs run HP Fire: 252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 176-208 (46.3 - 54.7%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery HP Fire has 24 PP, Synthesis has 8. He is not gonna PP stall.
While Chesnaught can do what in return? Aerial Ace? 252 Atk Chesnaught Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 96-114 (26.3 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
With full investment and neutral nature it just 4HKO's, so it is in no way a counter. Oh, i was supposed to explain what a counter is: ''Pokémon A counters Pokémon B if Pokémon A can manually switch into Pokémon B and still win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.'' Setting up spikes has nothing to do with countering the given pokemon, so i dont really know what to say about that.
I guess I could, but MV often isn't fast enough to quickly screen speedy threats. It's more of a buffer against special attacks that would normally 2HKO at 50-60%.
I have one set that remind you of SpD Heatran. The trick that I'm doing is that when you read the text, don't know the exact species. But we have two problem: Lava Plume has ow Base poer and there aren't a good second STAB and can't boost the Special Attack that way. This is on the set, which is really infruating:
Pokemon V (Fire/Psychic) @ Leftovers/Air Balloon/Light Clay (only with Light Screen)
Ability: The only one of Pokemon V. It hasn't a big effect.
EV: 252 HP, 180 SpA, 72 SpD.
Nature: Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
Moves:
1) Will-o-Wisp/Toxic
2) Calm Mind/Light Screen/U-turn
3) Searing Shot
4) Psyshock/Psychic
Will-o-wisp is to guarantedd a buirn but with Searing Shot Toxic could be preferred to cripple better walls and tanks.
Calm Mind is to raise the special attack and it's the preferred moveslot. Light Screen is great to get an automatic + easily hile U-turn is for scouting, like Rotom-W Will-o-Wisp.
Searing Shot is the key move. Has 100 Base power, 100 Accuracy and a great effect, 30% of burning the opponent. Only Pokemon V can learn the attack.
Psychic has great coverage (for being Psychic) with Fire, which it's good with STAB.
The EVs are: 252 HP for maximum HP possible, some bulk on the special side, (can be changed for the physical side depending of the set) and some Special Attack for the attacks not being "weak" because Pokemon V doesn't have 130 Base SpA.
The iten preferred is Leftover,s for obvious reasons. But Air Balloon can be used to take one EQ for free. Light Clay has to only be used with light Screen and even I don't recommend it.
Fire/Psychic has good coverage, only missind Dark/Fire (MHoundoom), Dark/Water (Craqdaunt (frail), Sharpedo (frail), Rock/Dark (Tyranitar, a big deal), Dragon/Dark (Hydreigon), Psychic/Fire (Victini), Psychic/Water (Stamrie, Slowbro/king), Psychic/Rock (nothing relevant), Psychic/Dragon (Lati@s), Steel/Fire (Heatran itself), Water/Steel (Empoleon), Psychic/Steel (Metagross, Bronzong, Jirachi), Steel/Dragon (Dialga, banned). Outside that neutral damage to everything.
Fire/psychic could be a "bad type" with 5 weakness (Water, Ground, Rock, Dark and Ghost, all being common) but has resistances (Fire, Grass, ice, Fighting, Psychic, Steel and Fairy) to come in. And has defenses to take some attacks.
About support, I don't have much experience but given the type of Pokemon V, Defog or Rapid Spin is highly recommended to remove those nasty Rocks.
Also, this set can be used in the UU tier, where Heatran (and in a lesser way MCharizard-X) are not present. Which means it¡'s the time to reveal the Pokemon V
What you think.
Pokemon V (Fire/Psychic) @ Leftovers/Air Balloon/Light Clay (only with Light Screen)
Ability: The only one of Pokemon V. It hasn't a big effect.
EV: 252 HP, 180 SpA, 72 SpD.
Nature: Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
Moves:
1) Will-o-Wisp/Toxic
2) Calm Mind/Light Screen/U-turn
3) Searing Shot
4) Psyshock/Psychic
Will-o-wisp is to guarantedd a buirn but with Searing Shot Toxic could be preferred to cripple better walls and tanks.
Calm Mind is to raise the special attack and it's the preferred moveslot. Light Screen is great to get an automatic + easily hile U-turn is for scouting, like Rotom-W Will-o-Wisp.
Searing Shot is the key move. Has 100 Base power, 100 Accuracy and a great effect, 30% of burning the opponent. Only Pokemon V can learn the attack.
Psychic has great coverage (for being Psychic) with Fire, which it's good with STAB.
The EVs are: 252 HP for maximum HP possible, some bulk on the special side, (can be changed for the physical side depending of the set) and some Special Attack for the attacks not being "weak" because Pokemon V doesn't have 130 Base SpA.
The iten preferred is Leftover,s for obvious reasons. But Air Balloon can be used to take one EQ for free. Light Clay has to only be used with light Screen and even I don't recommend it.
Fire/Psychic has good coverage, only missind Dark/Fire (MHoundoom), Dark/Water (Craqdaunt (frail), Sharpedo (frail), Rock/Dark (Tyranitar, a big deal), Dragon/Dark (Hydreigon), Psychic/Fire (Victini), Psychic/Water (Stamrie, Slowbro/king), Psychic/Rock (nothing relevant), Psychic/Dragon (Lati@s), Steel/Fire (Heatran itself), Water/Steel (Empoleon), Psychic/Steel (Metagross, Bronzong, Jirachi), Steel/Dragon (Dialga, banned). Outside that neutral damage to everything.
Fire/psychic could be a "bad type" with 5 weakness (Water, Ground, Rock, Dark and Ghost, all being common) but has resistances (Fire, Grass, ice, Fighting, Psychic, Steel and Fairy) to come in. And has defenses to take some attacks.
About support, I don't have much experience but given the type of Pokemon V, Defog or Rapid Spin is highly recommended to remove those nasty Rocks.
Also, this set can be used in the UU tier, where Heatran (and in a lesser way MCharizard-X) are not present. Which means it¡'s the time to reveal the Pokemon V
Pokemon V is Victini (100 HP/100 Atk/100 Def/100 SpA/100 SpD/100 Spe), the only pokemon that can learn Searing Shot (level 1). The ability is Victory Star.
The trick of this set is that people, when they see Victini, in team preview, they use the CB or CS version with v-Create (which is the better) but they amost don't know about Searing Shot, that even though victini has better options from attacking.
The trick of this set is that people, when they see Victini, in team preview, they use the CB or CS version with v-Create (which is the better) but they amost don't know about Searing Shot, that even though victini has better options from attacking.
What you think.
Firstly, it's pointless to discuss a pokemon that is completely outclassed in OU in the OU thread; I'd recommend posting this over in UU instead.
Secondly, even in the lower tiers, it seems like something along the lines of specially defensive Assault Vest Entei could pull this off better, since he's got better defenses, Sacred Fire to nab all those nasty burns (at a 50% chance) and priority to boot.
Thirdly... how is fire/psychic coverage not effective against Jirachi or Metagross? I fail to understand :/
Fourthly, don't use a set purely for its surprise value; it's essentially wasting a team slot on a worse pokemon in exchange for an aid in beating the bottom 25% of the ladder, which you should be able to do without relying on surprise value. In many ways, especially since you note that both Choice Band and Choice Scarf Victini are better, this is kind of the definition of a "shitty gimmick."
Speaking of Victini, here is an interesting set I have been using that really screws around with hyper offence.
Victini@Weakness Policy
252hp 252attack 4specdef
Brave Nature: +attack -speed
V-Create
Bolt Strike
Brick Break
Trick Room
He is mainly a late -game sweeper after most priority is gone. He normally sets up against stuff like Rotom-W, Greninja and Char -Y. His bulk when invested is easily good enough to take hydropumps, dark pulses and earthquakes, activating weakness policy as I set my trick Room. From there its mostly gg. I like to set up on Char Y as the sun boosted +2 V-Create becomes so powerful it OKOES GARCHOMP. GARCHOMP PPL ON A RESISTED HIT. Sometimes against bulkier teams I don't trick Room and abuse weakness policy to break walls for my other team members to sweep later. What do you guys think?
Victini@Weakness Policy
252hp 252attack 4specdef
Brave Nature: +attack -speed
V-Create
Bolt Strike
Brick Break
Trick Room
He is mainly a late -game sweeper after most priority is gone. He normally sets up against stuff like Rotom-W, Greninja and Char -Y. His bulk when invested is easily good enough to take hydropumps, dark pulses and earthquakes, activating weakness policy as I set my trick Room. From there its mostly gg. I like to set up on Char Y as the sun boosted +2 V-Create becomes so powerful it OKOES GARCHOMP. GARCHOMP PPL ON A RESISTED HIT. Sometimes against bulkier teams I don't trick Room and abuse weakness policy to break walls for my other team members to sweep later. What do you guys think?
Wow, that looks like it might actually work. With V-Create lowering your Speed, too, you should be able to deal the coup de grâce to injured teams.
As for the set, you probably do this but simply haven't noted it here: run 0 Speed IVs. It's critical to "outspeed" neutral Rotom-W in Trick Room.
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You mean 0 speed IVs, right? Because he runs 0 Speed EVs atm :S
Yes, yes I do. I guess I'm just so used to typing "EVs" that it has become a reflex action!
Yeah I do run 0 speed IVs. But I still have to watch out for the base 60ish speed tier which some still outslow under trick RoomExcitement said:
Even after a V-create?
TormenTrap Heatran
Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 76 SpDef / 180 Spe (EVs are only arbitrary to the team's needs)
Calm
- Magma Storm
- Torment
- Earth Power / Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
This set was a thing back two generations ago, but this set has a great surprise factor against the current metagame. With a more bulky-oriented metagame, this version of Heatran can be used to lure in common switch-ins and wear them down. The whole premise of this set is to switch into something Heatran usually forces out e.g. Latios or Mega-Mawile and use Torment on the switch-in. Because most Pokemon only use one move to suffice as coverage against Heatran, Torment forces them to use that move every other turn, giving Heatran a free turn to do do damage or set up whatever it may need to set up. Torment can be utilized in two ways. First, Heatran can stay in for the duration of Torment and use the combination of Magma Storm and Toxic to wear the opponent down. Second, you can utilize the safe turn generated by Torment to switch into another Pokemon that also resists the move used on the Tormented turn, giving your team the obvious momentum. TormenTran works really well with hazards since some players choose to switch out of Torment, thereby generating hazard damage. Heatran has been traditionally considered as a free switch for both Charizard forms, who also have coverage to defeat Heatran. TormenTran shuts down those coverage moves (Earthquake/Focus Blast) and stalls both of them to death. The magic of this set lies in its team-building versatility. Due to its centralization on passive damage, Heatran fits well on stall teams since it can also force switches and do insane amounts of passive damage. It also works well on offensive teams simply because of Magma Storm's high Base Power and its ability to shut down some of this meta's greatest offensive threats.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 76 SpDef / 180 Spe (EVs are only arbitrary to the team's needs)
Calm
- Magma Storm
- Torment
- Earth Power / Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
This set was a thing back two generations ago, but this set has a great surprise factor against the current metagame. With a more bulky-oriented metagame, this version of Heatran can be used to lure in common switch-ins and wear them down. The whole premise of this set is to switch into something Heatran usually forces out e.g. Latios or Mega-Mawile and use Torment on the switch-in. Because most Pokemon only use one move to suffice as coverage against Heatran, Torment forces them to use that move every other turn, giving Heatran a free turn to do do damage or set up whatever it may need to set up. Torment can be utilized in two ways. First, Heatran can stay in for the duration of Torment and use the combination of Magma Storm and Toxic to wear the opponent down. Second, you can utilize the safe turn generated by Torment to switch into another Pokemon that also resists the move used on the Tormented turn, giving your team the obvious momentum. TormenTran works really well with hazards since some players choose to switch out of Torment, thereby generating hazard damage. Heatran has been traditionally considered as a free switch for both Charizard forms, who also have coverage to defeat Heatran. TormenTran shuts down those coverage moves (Earthquake/Focus Blast) and stalls both of them to death. The magic of this set lies in its team-building versatility. Due to its centralization on passive damage, Heatran fits well on stall teams since it can also force switches and do insane amounts of passive damage. It also works well on offensive teams simply because of Magma Storm's high Base Power and its ability to shut down some of this meta's greatest offensive threats.
No 65 uninvested outspeeds before a V-Create
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I've actually been using this physically bulky pivot thundurus to some mild success
Thundurus @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Volt Switch
- Superpower
I use it as a utility pivot mon. It can tank surprising amounts of physical hits and switches into things like scizor pretty easily. Running - speed nature because not sure what it would need to outspeed to hit with volt switch and superpower, and it already outspeeds most common pranksters like klefki and sableye even with -speed. Not sure about that though so if theres important things that it would need more speed for let me know. Superpower is to hit things like tyranitar and blissey/chansey. Not sure if hammer arm would be better for the 2hko on some things?
Thundurus @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Volt Switch
- Superpower
I use it as a utility pivot mon. It can tank surprising amounts of physical hits and switches into things like scizor pretty easily. Running - speed nature because not sure what it would need to outspeed to hit with volt switch and superpower, and it already outspeeds most common pranksters like klefki and sableye even with -speed. Not sure about that though so if theres important things that it would need more speed for let me know. Superpower is to hit things like tyranitar and blissey/chansey. Not sure if hammer arm would be better for the 2hko on some things?
Hammer Arm has worse accuracy and the power on two hits is about the same:
0 Atk Thundurus Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 81-96 (23.7 - 28.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 4HKO
23.7 - 28.1 has an average of 25,9 and 25,9 x 2= 51,8
0 Atk Thundurus Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 97-115 (28.4 - 33.7%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO
It has an average of about 32,0.
-1 0 Atk Thundurus Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 65-77 (19 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO
It has an average of about 20,7, and 32,0 + 20,7= 52,7.
The power is about the same so i would go with Superpower over Hammer Arm.
0 Atk Thundurus Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 81-96 (23.7 - 28.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 4HKO
23.7 - 28.1 has an average of 25,9 and 25,9 x 2= 51,8
0 Atk Thundurus Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 97-115 (28.4 - 33.7%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO
It has an average of about 32,0.
-1 0 Atk Thundurus Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 65-77 (19 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO
It has an average of about 20,7, and 32,0 + 20,7= 52,7.
The power is about the same so i would go with Superpower over Hammer Arm.
I found a set that tends to mess with people's heads, along with being effective.
Dragonite
Item:Leftovers
Ability:Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Speed / 4 Atk
Jolly Nature
·Toxic
·Roost
·Dragon Claw
·Earthquake
The bulky speed evs allow it to outspeed some of the bulky stallers such as mandibuzz, along with being able to live a mega manectrics tbolt. Roost allows it to heal back to multiscale, and after the opponet is toxiced, this plays same role as Gliscor, save the fact that dragonite resists mire than gliscor. Earthquake allows it to hit those that toxic does not effect, dragon claw is optional for a clean STAB attack to speed up the stall if you get a free turn, or are taunted without a clean switch.
Dragonite
Item:Leftovers
Ability:Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Speed / 4 Atk
Jolly Nature
·Toxic
·Roost
·Dragon Claw
·Earthquake
The bulky speed evs allow it to outspeed some of the bulky stallers such as mandibuzz, along with being able to live a mega manectrics tbolt. Roost allows it to heal back to multiscale, and after the opponet is toxiced, this plays same role as Gliscor, save the fact that dragonite resists mire than gliscor. Earthquake allows it to hit those that toxic does not effect, dragon claw is optional for a clean STAB attack to speed up the stall if you get a free turn, or are taunted without a clean switch.
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I prefer Taunt/SP/Knock Off/Iron Head. I don't really feel that SR meshes well with anything else in his arsenal, other than the fact he can force switches (for which pursuit and Knock Off are better anyway). I guess the fact no one will want to Defog on you is a plus as well. Also, I don't think Focus Sash takes advantage of Bisharp's capabilities very well, especially since he's not nearly as frail as Froslass, nor as fast. Also, I'm pretty sure 252 Speed EVs and Jolly isn't the best, but I forget what the magic number is. (I'd still run Adamant though).
But seriously, not enough Bisharp run Taunt. It completely screws over anything slower that wants to status you and allows you to ensure a Sucker Punch or Pursuit. It also prevents things that want to set up alongside you in a vain attempt to evade the impending Sucker Punch.
Also has anybody tried Rock Polish Bisharp? I have yet to, but I'd be really interested in hearing results from anyone.
You said the reasons yourself. Pokemon like garchomp and heatran set up rocks due to causing switches, but bisharp does that and keeps them up on his own. I've tried resist berries and lo but sash def helps. He still does a lot of damage and revenges threats. I said froslass, but it's more like mamoswine. Adamant is fine.
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Fling
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
After the swords dance its attack sky rockets to 578 and with fling damaging, toxicing, and boosting acrobatic's power up to 110 - gliscor's acrobatics becomes potent. Earthquake adds up as gliscor's second stab. Even rotom wash takes hefty damage from a +2 acrobatics (considering rotom is generally considered as a gliscor counter + lum berry). +2 252 Atk Gliscor Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 136-161 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock. If a rotom decides to switch into a +2 gliscor and isn't scarfed under rocks, that's a dead rotom.
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Fling
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
After the swords dance its attack sky rockets to 578 and with fling damaging, toxicing, and boosting acrobatic's power up to 110 - gliscor's acrobatics becomes potent. Earthquake adds up as gliscor's second stab. Even rotom wash takes hefty damage from a +2 acrobatics (considering rotom is generally considered as a gliscor counter + lum berry). +2 252 Atk Gliscor Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 136-161 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock. If a rotom decides to switch into a +2 gliscor and isn't scarfed under rocks, that's a dead rotom.
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