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Hippowdon [QC 2/3]
- Thread starter Trainer Au
- Start date
Great idea.
Like, no. Assault Vest is a terrible item when Hippowdon gets Slack Off.
Not really sure if it's viable since it prevents Hippowdon from using some of it's best aspects, that of being a reliable rock setter, a wall, and being able to phaze, the latter being important since Hippowdon isn't majorly offensive and can become setup fodder on occasion.
Those attacks are mediocre, anyway. I'm surprised Ice Fang isn't listed for many of the threats it checks.
what would you suggest replacing? Superpower?
Can't think of anything notable to hit with Superpower, so pretty much.
There are others that can preform a tank role much better, landt comes to mind, though it isnt as specially bulky. Also, I doubt vest helps hippo live anything that it didnt already, and depending on your nature, it wont hit very hard. Hippo doesnt have much for coverage either. Edgequake is nice but it ends there, elemental fangs are cool but really weak.
When people pick hippo it is normally for its: reliable recovery, ability to check dangerous threats (chary, charx, talon, zam, megatar, certain thunds, etc), and access to sr, among other things.
Thnx for the input though =]
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In the overview, I would merge some of your bullet points and make it like this:
Specially Defensive
First of all, i would slash Smooth Rock after Leftovers on both sets, as Hippowdon is the best sand setter, due to reliable recovery and good bulk, so it can support Pokemon such as Excadrill and Mega Garchomp for big amounts of time.
To the usage tips, add that keeping Hippowdon healthy is a top priority, as it almost always moves second and thus needs to be in tip top shape to deal with the threats you want it to. Do this for both sets.
In team options of both sets, remove mentions of Toxic Spikes, Starmie, and Forretress, all of them are rarely seen and generally not good options in this metagame.
Add Sand Rush Excadrill and Mega Garchomp as two of the best partners for Hippowdon, as they can become terrific sweepers or wallbreakers under sand. Do this for both sets.
Also, mention how Hippowdon's sand cuts down Mega Venusaur's recovery, making Hippowdon a good partner to Pokemon that are troubled by Mega Venusaur, such as Thundurus, Rotom-W, and Keldeo. Do this for both sets.
Will provide more feedback once you implement those.
- One of the best physical and mixed walls in OU, as it has great bulk, reliable recovery, and checks or walls some very important threats (mention some examples)
- Amazing support with Sand Stream, SR, and Whirlwind
- Pretty strong for a wall, with good Atk stat and nice STAB
- Slow
- Common weaknesses
- Often relies on Whirlwind to stop some set up sweepers, so weakening it is not that hard
Specially Defensive
First of all, i would slash Smooth Rock after Leftovers on both sets, as Hippowdon is the best sand setter, due to reliable recovery and good bulk, so it can support Pokemon such as Excadrill and Mega Garchomp for big amounts of time.
Elaborate by providing examples of Pokemon that Hippowdon can wall with that spread (Thundurus, Mega Charizard Y, Aegislash, Latios, Latias, Deoxys-S, Gengar, and Tornadus-T)
To the usage tips, add that keeping Hippowdon healthy is a top priority, as it almost always moves second and thus needs to be in tip top shape to deal with the threats you want it to. Do this for both sets.
In team options of both sets, remove mentions of Toxic Spikes, Starmie, and Forretress, all of them are rarely seen and generally not good options in this metagame.
Add Sand Rush Excadrill and Mega Garchomp as two of the best partners for Hippowdon, as they can become terrific sweepers or wallbreakers under sand. Do this for both sets.
Also, mention how Hippowdon's sand cuts down Mega Venusaur's recovery, making Hippowdon a good partner to Pokemon that are troubled by Mega Venusaur, such as Thundurus, Rotom-W, and Keldeo. Do this for both sets.
Will provide more feedback once you implement those.
Remove the mention of Mega Lucario.
All right, a few changes need to be made.
I would remove Smooth Rock as a slash over leftovers. Smooth Rock doesn't really help too much in the longer run and the lefties recovery is nice.
Mention Sand Force when you couple Hippo with Mega Venusaur or Clefable who needs the recovery without worrying about Sand interfering.
Remove Ice Fang, its really unneeded.
I would then change both sets to this:
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Slack Off
move 4: Toxic / Rock Slide / Whirlwind
Then you should be good, Trainer Au.
I would remove Smooth Rock as a slash over leftovers. Smooth Rock doesn't really help too much in the longer run and the lefties recovery is nice.
Mention Sand Force when you couple Hippo with Mega Venusaur or Clefable who needs the recovery without worrying about Sand interfering.
Remove Ice Fang, its really unneeded.
I would then change both sets to this:
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Slack Off
move 4: Toxic / Rock Slide / Whirlwind
Then you should be good, Trainer Au.
Everything should be implemented, I left Ice Fang in OO though, as without it it's blank and it can still potentially be nice for Garchomps and Gliscors. Although, I'm pretty sure Gliscor is rare and it's debatable how good Ice Fang is vs. chomp anyways, so if you want it gone I can take it out.
Smooth Rock is still good on Hippowdon, though. The extra sand turns are more useful than you think. The additional 3 turns to cause major damage with Sand Rush Excadrill and Mega Garchomp, two threats heavily reliant on sand and should thus be always paired with Smooth Rock sand setters, shouldn't be taken slightly. The fact that Hippowdon remedies the lack of Leftovers with Slack Off further makes it acceptable too.
So, in your opinion, I should slash it? Or put it in OO?
I think it deserves a slash, personally.
I think it only needs a mention in Set Details of either set as a good option if Hippowdon is used with Sand Rush Excadrill or Mega Garchomp. Otherwise, it's inferior to leftovers.
Definitely a slash in my opinion. It's still good on teams that take advantage of sand.
Also, I would remove the Sand Force slash and just relegate it to OO I guess (I'd like it removed altogether but w/e). One of the biggest reasons to use Hippowdon is because of the sand it summons, allowing it to hinder the effectiveness of Pokemon such as Mega Venusaur, Mega Charizard-Y, and Politoed. The passive damage is also useful against select tanks/walls with Leftovers, making it that much easier for your teammates to bring something down. If you want to use Mega Venusaur or Moonlight Clefable on your team, then don't use Hippowdon. Simple as that.
The only problem I have with this is that Specially Defensive Hippowdon is one of the best answers to Mixed Aegislash for stall teams. Although Aegislash does admittedly sometimes run Toxic almost specifically for Hippowdon and Mandibuzz, having Hippowdon makes sure the team can't be demolished by sets like the CRUMBLER, which otherwise steamrolls through the vast majority of stall teams. Alongside Heatran, stall teams can be safe from both the CRUMBLER and Toxic Aegislash, a huge boon. Considering every stall team and its mother utilizes Mega Venusaur and/or Clefable, however, Sand Stream isn't the optimal ability.
Also, keep in mind canceling out sunlight is largely irrelevant for Stall teams. Mega Charizard Y is one big piece of bait for Chansey, who can switch in all day long. Mega Venusaur can be a little more difficult, but most of the time it comes down to PP stalling Synthesis anyway. That's why I'd like to see Sand Force kept as a slash.
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Smooth Rock is only a usable option if you have a sand abuser (read: Excadrill or Mega Garchomp) on your team. Otherwise, Leftovers is way better. If you're using one of those two, sure, use Smooth Rock on your Hippowdon. It should definitely be mentioned. But don't slash it, because an item that helps two possible teammates should not be mentioned together with Leftovers. I'm fine with Smooth Rock being in Set Details, but it's significantly worse than Leftovers.
I've used both Sand Stream and Sand Force Hippowdon significantly this generation, and I thought "It's so annoying that the sand is wearing down my own Pokemon that don't benefit from sand at all" much more often than "I'm glad my sand is disrupting his Mega Venusaur / Moonlight Clefable / Mega Charizard Y." Sand is not one of the biggest reasons to use Hippowdon. Great bulk, reliable recovery, and the ability to check tons of threats are the reasons. Sand is sometimes a nice bonus, other times an annoying detriment. I would say slash Sand Force first on physically defensive because sand usually hurts your team more than it helps in practice, and slash it second on specially defensive, because in the event that you already have a switch-in for Mega Charizard Y, it is superior. Really, it comes down to the team which ability is better, because different teams work differently with sand, and Hippowdon fits on many different teams. So both should be on both sets.
I've used both Sand Stream and Sand Force Hippowdon significantly this generation, and I thought "It's so annoying that the sand is wearing down my own Pokemon that don't benefit from sand at all" much more often than "I'm glad my sand is disrupting his Mega Venusaur / Moonlight Clefable / Mega Charizard Y." Sand is not one of the biggest reasons to use Hippowdon. Great bulk, reliable recovery, and the ability to check tons of threats are the reasons. Sand is sometimes a nice bonus, other times an annoying detriment. I would say slash Sand Force first on physically defensive because sand usually hurts your team more than it helps in practice, and slash it second on specially defensive, because in the event that you already have a switch-in for Mega Charizard Y, it is superior. Really, it comes down to the team which ability is better, because different teams work differently with sand, and Hippowdon fits on many different teams. So both should be on both sets.
My mistake, this makes way more sense.
Just a question to everyone: Why is Rock Slide preferred over Stone Edge? Stone Edge is preferred, in singles, on basically every Pokemon that learns both, so I was just wondering if Stone Edge isn't slashed anywhere, while Rock Slide is, for a specific reason regarding Hippowdon.