On second thought, I nominate Shedinja for E rank; I just realized that Swords Dance and Baton Pass are incompatible moves, since you have to evolve it at a certain level to get either. Without that combination, yeah, I agree that it should never be used in Ubers. Nvm, carry on.
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Gen 6 The XY Ubers Viability Ranking Thread [Read Post #1000]
- Thread starter MMII
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Even if it was possible, you're proposing a team that consists of Blaziken, Gengar, Shedinja, a support Arceus (Rapid Spin or other Defog users are not nearly reliable enough to support a Pokemon that MUST have entry hazards removed), Groudon (because otherwise your strategy is ruined by Tyranitar/Hippowdon and Kyogre cannot fit alongside Blaziken) and one team slot that is more flexible. This gives you a team which has the following qualities:
- A single linear strategy which must succeed on the first attempt
- A vulnerability to hyper offense and Sticky Web teams, as both immensely pressure Defog users to the point where Defogging is rarely possible, and both also have very few Pokemon that can neither hurt nor Taunt Shedinja
- A lack of defensive synergy and checks to most of the metagame, hoping to win before it inevitably implodes
- A vulnerability to Taunt users and Prankster Thunder Wave users
- A significant vulnerability to priority not resisted by Blaziken
- A significant vulnerability to Lugia (considering your dependence on Defog you can hardly hope to have Stealth Rock against Lugia, meaning it can survive any of Blaziken's attacks with Multiscale)
- A complete reliance on a Pokemon that cannot perform its role without considerable support OR when faced with what amounts to most of the metagame (there are literally 2 Pokemon in A rank which can be relied on not to carry Will-o-Wisp, Toxic or a move that is super effective against Shedinja)
- A reliance on a strategy which is mostly shut down by double switches
- An extreme vulnerability to one or more of: Choice Scarf Kyogre, Blaziken, Extremekiller Arceus, Geomancy Xerneas and Deoxys-A, because the team cannot possibly built in a way that is able to check all of these threats
If you want to use an unreliable, more or less one off strategy just go with Smashpass. I see less problems with that than with this.
If you were to run shedinja the 'standard' set would be
Hone Claws
Baton Pass
WoW
Shadow Sneak
imo with X-Scissor and Sucker Punch OO but really that attack is terrible, status is everywhere, hazards are still around, its 5 weaknesses, flying, fire, dark, ghost, rock, are ALL common this meta. There's a reason it got rejected for analysis.
Please don't just theorymon. [I have seen alright teams made with it but in the end it's simply not all that great]
Hone Claws
Baton Pass
WoW
Shadow Sneak
imo with X-Scissor and Sucker Punch OO but really that attack is terrible, status is everywhere, hazards are still around, its 5 weaknesses, flying, fire, dark, ghost, rock, are ALL common this meta. There's a reason it got rejected for analysis.
Please don't just theorymon. [I have seen alright teams made with it but in the end it's simply not all that great]
Arceus-Bug -> D Lack of offensive presence compared to other Arceus forms as well as its CM set being walled by a majority of the metagame and a typing that is weak to common types and rocks make little reason to use this form for an Arceus slot. The only niche it has is checking Darkrai and luring Ho-oh.
I think wobbufet maybe deserves higher than High C;
B Rank
Reserved for Pokemon with large offensive or defensive capability. They are designed to serve specific roles for a team and may offer valuable utility. They often need certain amounts of support and/or suffer to a degree from opportunity cost.
I feel it merits at least discussion about how it fits that.. but it is pretty underrated, and I feel anyone trying it out will see clearly that it offers quite some utility versus almost any sort of team (less matchup based than gothitelle probably is).
B Rank
Reserved for Pokemon with large offensive or defensive capability. They are designed to serve specific roles for a team and may offer valuable utility. They often need certain amounts of support and/or suffer to a degree from opportunity cost.
I feel it merits at least discussion about how it fits that.. but it is pretty underrated, and I feel anyone trying it out will see clearly that it offers quite some utility versus almost any sort of team (less matchup based than gothitelle probably is).
It don't really like mentioning predicting at all in an argument if I can avoid it, but in wobbs case it is so heavily prediction reliant and has much more to lose if you mess up the 50-50(comparing it to deciding between taunt or dbond for mega gar) between choosing encore or the the respective counter attack (this is without factoring in picking the correct damage taken x2 move) that it isn't funny. I feel that wobb can work given the right situation (linear/non voltturn choice users mostly) but it is far too prediction reliant in today's metagame to be really reliable. It's even more situational than goth in a sense (fuck goth).
You're right, it should be in rank E to inform the masses about how bad it is.
I was being serious lol. You can read page 13 for the reasons supplied.
MegaGengar
Blissey at least may carry Shed Shell to escape from Gengar. Chansey MUST carry Eviolite or she's inferior Blissey. And this make her so easy to trap. Especially with her non-existant offenses (and Toxic + Seismic Toss can't even scratch him which are the only ways for her to damage targets).
Speaking of E Rank......Deoxys-N?
Lol, don't apologize.
And I can see Deoxys-N working for E-Rank. Deoxys-N is one of these Pokemon that are on a plasmatic borderline between OU and Ubers. They wreck OU, but are outclassed in Ubers. The most it can hit is low D, thanks to the fact that is OHKO'd by 90% of attacks instead of 100% like Deoxys-A, while 150/150 offenses are still amazing.
One question: (I'm new to Ubers so take this with a grain of salt)
How is Smeargle, Klefki, and Skarmory B Rank?
Also, I think "Amoongus" is spelled with 2 s, not 1 (first page) ;)
Also (again) I think Banette could be nominated, at the least, C-mid. Why?
-Against non-Priority Sweepers, like Blaziken, Blaziken can do virtually nothing against it as it destiny bonds and stops its sweep. Another example is Xerneas. Banette Destiny Bonds, xerneas attacks, and the My Little Pony fandom dies.
-ExtremeKiller Arceus: Immunity to friggin Extreme SPeed and the fact that destiny bond works on normal types means that Banette can completely revenge it , no sweat.
-Mega Gar: This is notable. What can Mega gar do to it? attack? screw you destiny bond screws it over so bad. Also, banette is not trapped by shadow tag.
-Mega Mewtwos: IF it learned extreme Speed, still does shit to it because banette is immune. Lol. And Banette destiny Bond KO's anyway.
-Kyogre: CM Kyogre is stopped obviously
You'd think that beating all of the S Rank Mons and ANY mon that doesn't have priority should give it at least a notable mention.
How is Smeargle, Klefki, and Skarmory B Rank?
Also, I think "Amoongus" is spelled with 2 s, not 1 (first page) ;)
Also (again) I think Banette could be nominated, at the least, C-mid. Why?
-Against non-Priority Sweepers, like Blaziken, Blaziken can do virtually nothing against it as it destiny bonds and stops its sweep. Another example is Xerneas. Banette Destiny Bonds, xerneas attacks, and the My Little Pony fandom dies.
-ExtremeKiller Arceus: Immunity to friggin Extreme SPeed and the fact that destiny bond works on normal types means that Banette can completely revenge it , no sweat.
-Mega Gar: This is notable. What can Mega gar do to it? attack? screw you destiny bond screws it over so bad. Also, banette is not trapped by shadow tag.
-Mega Mewtwos: IF it learned extreme Speed, still does shit to it because banette is immune. Lol. And Banette destiny Bond KO's anyway.
-Kyogre: CM Kyogre is stopped obviously
You'd think that beating all of the S Rank Mons and ANY mon that doesn't have priority should give it at least a notable mention.
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Mega-bannette doesnt beat any, it draws with them. Firstly, you have to mega evolve first to get prankster which is hard with 64/75/83 bulk. Destiny bond is hardly too helpful, it is easily predictable and can make it into settup fodder with anything that has sub.
Mega bannette has no niche in ubers. It has a nice 165 attack, but its only stab move is shadow claw, prankster will-o-wisp/destiny bond is nice, but it is hard to mega evolve. I would much rather use mega gengar or mewtwo than bannette. (gengar could probably do destiny bond better)
I have to second this. Arceus-Bug has no niche and neither does Arceus-Psychic. Both should be dropped to D rank, below Arceus-Ice. Say what you want about Arceus-Ice, but it's still the fastest and bulkiest ice type special sweeper (Kyu-W is a wallbreaker so it's not in competition with it) and ice STAB is still excellent to have, especially in a tier where it's such a common weakness. In fact I'd argue to that Iceceus should be at the very least on par with Flyceus, since they both have less-than-ideal defensive types and typically run a CM set.
:/
Protect says otherwise.
Seriously, why would u use will-o-wisp on banette when sableye does that better?
Mega Banette niche is, simply put from the block of post I said, Being able to stop a sweep, even when all seems impossible.
sure, it draws, but being able to stop a +6 Mega Blaziken raping your team is nice. (even if it has a sub, which is another reason why your point is invalid. Destiny Bond goes through sub )
BTW another typo: You mention megas being the same as the pokemon, yet you don't include mega tyranitar's pic in B Rank. just saying :P
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Psyceus does have a niche, for pure beating mewtwo it has comparable features wiht ghostceus/darkceus. Unlike ghostceus it resists psystrike, whilst it does take shadow Ball SE it's weaker than aura sphere so in that respect it has advantages over darkceus. Soit does have some small but meaningful niche.
Regarding Mega Banette, it is an outclassed Sableye with the exception of its access to Destiny Bond, and uses up your Mega Evolution. Being able to kill itself to stop sweepers is not nearly a decent niche, because you could always just teambuild decently and have better ways to deal with threats. Moreover, Destiny Bond is predictable, and many threats could just avoid attacking, and if you Taunt you risk dying on that turn. They can also switch out freely and you'll accomplish nothing against them. Ditto can stop a majority of these threats without dying in the process if you want an umbrella soft check to all set up sweepers for hyper offense or something. Mega Banette is just trash.
Also, can we stop nitpicking how awful exactly the awful Pokemon are? I don't understand why anyone cares to distinguish between unusable and completely unusable. With so many good Arceus formes no one will ever use the terrible ones anyways.
Also, can we stop nitpicking how awful exactly the awful Pokemon are? I don't understand why anyone cares to distinguish between unusable and completely unusable. With so many good Arceus formes no one will ever use the terrible ones anyways.
90% is honestly being too generous. 99.99% is probably more accurate lol. Literally the only thing it survives over Deo-A are MegaKhan's Fake Out and Mega-Luke's BP. And hell those moves while used alot have easy alternate options (e-speed and special mega luke, Bulky Wish/S-Toss Khan).
Okay, it's been a long while but I'm going to propose a bunch of changes now that SPL has shaken some things up.
- Ho-Oh for A rank - Please find me a good Ho-Oh team. There's really only a handful because all those Defog Ho-Oh teams are actually pretty garbage. I've only seen like two from Hack and Donkey. I'd honestly even argue for A- cause, tbh, Ho-Oh was better in gen 5.
- Genesect for B+ - It's one of the handful of viable scarfers and is actually pretty underrated but it's not at all the first Pokemon you are going to consider for the Scarf role.
- Rock Arceus for B- - It sucks. It's specialized in checking Ho-Oh and sorta checking Ygod while it's vulnerable to a tun of shit that requires support to make up for it.
- Klefki for A+ - I shit you not this is one of the best Pokemon in the metagame. It's the Ferrothorn of gen 6, except it is totally okay to just mindlessly slap keys onto your team, cause odds are it'll make the team better. It covers so many major threats, spikes on so much of the meta, and lets you cop out of so many shitty scenarios.
- Skarmory for B rank - It's a good Pokemon but it's a tad specialized and only fits on certain team archetypes, plus you have to compete with Klefki.
- Aegislash for B- - Same song as Rock Arceus except change Ho-Oh for GeoXeren and Yveltal for Mewtwo.
- Grass Arceus for B- - Again, it's Rock Arceus except Ho-Oh -> Kyogre and Yveltal -> Zekrom.
- Giratina for C+ - Why use this thing? It's got some cool bulk but that's really all.
- Kyurem-W for B- - I posted about it earlier here.
- Lugiass for B+ - My hate for it has died down when I realized I was wrong about it's reliance on SR. Most things hit a lot less this gen so Lugiass can actually check quite a few things even with SR up. If you support it with hazards it gets pretty fucking dangerous, too. One of the better mons to use on a stall team, imo.
- Aggron for C rank - It's a cool mon but lacks a clear niche and eats up a mega slot.
- Gliscor for B rank - It's a very solid SR setter and is pretty bulky. Has competition with other Ground mons but also has a very strong niche going for it.
- Gyarados for B- - I mentioned it in the same post as Kyurem-W. It has a pretty clean niche as a Blaziken check and the Mega form is pretty much a defensive Kyogre which is mountains of cool.
- Sableye for B- - It anti-leads, checks Ekiller, checks Mega Kanga, checks MMX, and can clutch a burn on a physical attacker. A pretty underrated Pokemon.
- Quagisre for B- - I'll let Haruno address any objections
- Wobbuffet for B+ - This thing has been so underrated. If you've ever played against this thing with HP Fire GeoXern and Mega Blaziken, you'll know what I'm talking about when I say how this thing can be really fucking bullshit when paired with the right Pokemon. Not as easy to build around as other Shadow Taggers but it's become a lot more generally useful now that Mewtwo is so big and, again, on the right teams this dick can do so much.
- Fire Arceus for C+ - It's not that bad of an Arceus forme. It's got a legitimate niche now as an offensive Xern check that can clean up late game with CM.
- Ice Arceus for D rank - Jk, this things sucks. C- was way too generous.
- Bug Arceus for D rank - This thing sucks but it's an Ubers pokemon so...
- Deoxys for D rank - We know the song, surviving Mega Kanga Fake Out isn't shit we actually care about to use this.
- Chansey for D rank - Just because Blissey outclasses it doesn't mean Chansey is total and utter garbage. It's just sorely outclassed which fits the idea of D rank.
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