Item Choice Band and Choice Specs (Viable Users, and Current Role in the Metagame)

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Slashari said:
Before we do that, we need to discuss some of the sets...
  • Why is Close Combat not even mentioned on the Infernape set? It's its most powerful Fighting STAB, and is better than Earthquake. Earthquake, is still viable, I guess, but Close Combat definitely needs to be on the set somewhere.
  • Why is Double-Edge the last slash on Staraptor's set? Why is Return even mentioned? Also, Staraptor should not run 4 HP EV's--that puts it at an even number.
  • Why is Waterfall the first slash on Dragonite's set?
  • Kingdra should run HP Fire over Flash Cannon if it's being used outside the rain so it isn't hard-countered by Ferrothorn.
  • Crawdaunt needs to run Superpower in its last moveslot, not "some random filler".
  • On a Specs set, Rotom should run a Hidden Power, perhaps Ice or Fire
  • And, finally, the most heinous of all of these... How the hell did you decide that Azumarill was a duck? :]
Garchomp should also be added to the OP, as it's extremely hard hitting and a very good user of Choice Band. I can't believe it hasn't been mentioned! Maybe something like:

445.png

Garchomp @ Choice Band
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Jolly Nature
  • Dragon Claw
  • Earthquake
  • Fire Fang
  • Stone Edge/Outrage
Outrage isn't the primary Dragon STAB because of Fairies.
Click to expand...

I forgot CC by mistake, lol. GJ on the rest.
 
Slashari said:
Before we do that, we need to discuss some of the sets...
  • Why is Close Combat not even mentioned on the Infernape set? It's its most powerful Fighting STAB, and is better than Earthquake. Earthquake, is still viable, I guess, but Close Combat definitely needs to be on the set somewhere.
  • Why is Double-Edge the last slash on Staraptor's set? Why is Return even mentioned? Also, Staraptor should not run 4 HP EV's--that puts it at an even number.
  • Why is Waterfall the first slash on Dragonite's set?
  • Kingdra should run HP Fire over Flash Cannon if it's being used outside the rain so it isn't hard-countered by Ferrothorn.
  • Crawdaunt needs to run Superpower in its last moveslot, not "some random filler".
  • On a Specs set, Rotom should run a Hidden Power, perhaps Ice or Fire
  • And, finally, the most heinous of all of these... How the hell did you decide that Azumarill was a duck? :]
Garchomp should also be added to the OP, as it's extremely hard hitting and a very good user of Choice Band. I can't believe it hasn't been mentioned! Maybe something like:

445.png

Garchomp @ Choice Band
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Jolly Nature
  • Dragon Claw
  • Earthquake
  • Fire Fang
  • Stone Edge/Outrage
Outrage isn't the primary Dragon STAB because of Fairies.
Click to expand...

Anyways, I'll answer all those questions.

- Changed.
- Return has no recoil and has 163 BP with STAB, Double-edge is still better though
- It was the first slash on the BW analysis :]
- Changed
- WoW is better in my opinion over HP Ice or Grass/Fire
- Garchomp set is added.
 
This isn't B/W. Waterfall was an option because of drizzle spam in BW. Waterfall is at best a niche move on Dragonite. Change it to fire punch for skarmory/scizor/ferrothorn.

Also double edge is pretty much mandatory on staraptor to get by rotom-w which is why you use staraptor in OU to take out talonflame counters

You don't use choice specs Rotom-W to wow things. It needs all the coverage/power it can get.
 
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Gothitelle is a very good choice specs user imo and just wreaks stall.

Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
ability : Shadow Tag
nature : Modest
evs : 252spA / 252spe / 4spD
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ground / Shadow Ball
- Trick

This thing just dismantles stall cores. Psyshock 2hkos venusaur and blissey. Psychic is a stronger alternative if you don't have problems with blissey. Thunderbolt is for skarmory and water types. Hidden power ground for heatran while shadow ball deals with lati@s and aegislash. Trick is mainly for chansey and other eviolite users. Just bring it in safely on something slower. Also, this is just the standard set, you can use any of many coverage moves available to it, like, energy ball for rotom-w, hp fire for scizor and ferrothorn, hp ice for the numerous 4x weak mons, grass knot for ohkoing hippowdon. And, the best part is that you can decide which pokemon to use it against thanks to team preview. Overall, i think it is worthy of being mentioned in op imo.
Also, remove the mention of specs alakazam. It is a worse version of life orb zam , which itself is a outclassed by sashzam.
 
s_aman said:
Gothitelle is a very good choice specs user imo and just wreaks stall.

Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
ability : Shadow Tag
nature : Modest
evs : 252spA / 252spe / 4spD
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ground / Shadow Ball
- Trick

This thing just dismantles stall cores. Psyshock 2hkos venusaur and blissey. Psychic is a stronger alternative if you don't have problems with blissey. Thunderbolt is for skarmory and water types. Hidden power ground for heatran while shadow ball deals with lati@s and aegislash. Trick is mainly for chansey and other eviolite users. Just bring it in safely on something slower. Also, this is just the standard set, you can use any of many coverage moves available to it, like, energy ball for rotom-w, hp fire for scizor and ferrothorn, hp ice for the numerous 4x weak mons, grass knot for ohkoing hippowdon. And, the best part is that you can decide which pokemon to use it against thanks to team preview. Overall, i think it is worthy of being mentioned in op imo.
Also, remove the mention of specs alakazam. It is a worse version of life orb zam , which itself is a outclassed by sashzam.
Click to expand...


Add it later, great set
 
CB Crawdaunt doesn't use superpower, only his STAB moves


Da Daunt
Crawdaunt @ Choice Band
Adaptability / Adamant
Crabhammer
Aqua Jet
Knock Off
Crunch

You use Crunch for the Megas that resist Crabhammer, like Mega Venusaur, Mega Blastoise, and Mega Ampharos for example:

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 170-200 (46.7 - 54.9%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 232-274 (64 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Ampharos: 260-308 (67.7 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's mostly for Mega Venusaur but Choice Band Crawdaunt NEVER wants to be locked into Superpower, Crabhammer and Knock Off alone destroy everything that doesn't resist them. Knock Off doesn't get the 2HKO on all of these Pokemon in which Crunch does, there is no reason to use Superpower when he's not there to be a revenge killer.
 
It's been mentioned on the Entei thread (so no real credit for me, just sharing)- and a lot of players seem to be having great success with CB Entei due it getting SACRED FIRE.

Entei @ Choice Band
Pressure / Adamant
~Sacred Fire
~Extreme Speed
~Stone Edge
~Iron Head / Bulldoze

As stated, Sacred Fire isn't just a great physical blessing for the Doge of Fire, the 50% chance to burn is one of the best side effects in the game. Blindly going for SF can net you (granted if you're slightly lucky) a burn on almost any target.
The other moves are just there for coverage; Espeed being on the best priorities in the game, countering Talonflame Gale Wings mainly. Stone Edge and Bulldoze / Iron Head are pretty self explanatory.
 
Destimo said:
It's been mentioned on the Entei thread (so no real credit for me, just sharing)- and a lot of players seem to be having great success with CB Entei due it getting SACRED FIRE.

Entei @ Choice Band
Pressure / Adamant
~Sacred Fire
~Extreme Speed
~Stone Edge
~Iron Head / Bulldoze

As stated, Sacred Fire isn't just a great physical blessing for the Doge of Fire, the 50% chance to burn is one of the best side effects in the game. Blindly going for SF can net you (granted if you're slightly lucky) a burn on almost any target.
The other moves are just there for coverage; Espeed being on the best priorities in the game, countering Talonflame Gale Wings mainly. Stone Edge and Bulldoze / Iron Head are pretty self explanatory.
Click to expand...

Question I have - Why is Bulldoze used on CB Entei?
 
Might want to add Noivern to the list of pokemon capable of running Choice Specs well.

Them Draco Meteors at high speeds really hurt.

If not that, Boomburst hits hard anyway.
 
on the rotom-w choice specs set you can use signal beam of WoW. On a choice set WoW is extremely situational and signal beam hits celebi for a shit tonne.
220 SpA Rotom-W Signal Beam vs. 220 HP / 236 SpD Celebi: 224-264 (56.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
without signal beam rotom-w is completely walled by celebi
 
Slashari said:
Outrage isn't the primary Dragon STAB because of Fairies.
Click to expand...

Going by this logic, Earthquake shouldn't be used because of Flying Pokemon/Levitators.

Definitely use Outrage on Band Chomp. You wanna go for as much power as possible, it's supposed to wallbreak..

Destimo said:
Stone Edge and Bulldoze / Iron Head are pretty self explanatory.
Click to expand...

No they're not. Iron Head is completely useless on Entei, and Bulldoze is always better for OHKOing 252 HP Heatran. Sacred Fire hits fairies already, and the burn from it should be more than enough for the rock-types (just ttar, really) that switch into Entei.
 
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Arikado said:
Going by this logic, Earthquake shouldn't be used because of Flying Pokemon/Levitators.

Definitely use Outrage on Band Chomp.You wanna go for as much power as possible, it's supposed to wallbreak..
Click to expand...
This. Also, since you are Choice locked, you are forced to switch anyway if a fairy comes in.
 
Not sure if this is mentioned but choice specs Heatran is insanly powerful:
Heatran @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Flash Cannon
 
Snotjoch said:
Not sure if this is mentioned but choice specs Heatran is insanly powerful:
Heatran @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Flash Cannon
Click to expand...
I did mention it, but it was never added to the OP for some reason...
 
Novern is a pretty viable choice spec choice
Here's how I run mine

Novern
Item:choice specs
Draco meteor
Boom burst
Flamethrower
U turn
 
I think that Tyranitar is worth mentioning as a very viable Choice Band user. The lack of steel type dark resistance has made CBand an even more viable set this generation than the last.

One might feel the CBand set is overshadowed by the Tyranitarite. While it may be true that the Tyranitarite has given Ttar placement in a better speed tier and the added bulk necessary to set up DDance(s) more easily, it takes a turn of set up that oftentimes can be undesirable.

Setting up with Mega-Tyranitar without being fazed, crippled, or sometimes OHKO'd can be difficult. Therefore, the immediate power of a Choice Band on Tyranitar can be extremely helpful for breaking holes through your opponents team, especially because it requires no set up turn.

Here's the standard set:

tyranitar.gif


Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 180 HP/252 Atk/76 Spe
Nature: Adamant
  • Stone Edge/Rock Slide
  • Crunch
  • Pursuit
  • Earthquake/Ice Punch
76 EVs are dumped in Spe to outpace uninvested base 70's, and the rest is dumped into Atk and HP for maximized bulk and power. Rock Slide is an option over Stone Edge if you fear the chance of missing, but beware the drop in power. Ice punch can be used if you want to punish x4 weak Pokemon effectively, namely Lando-T; however, Earthquake is generally the preferred option.
 
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ReallyThough? said:
I think that Tyranitar is worth mentioning as a very viable Choice Band user. The lack of steel type dark resistance has made CBand an even more viable set this generation than the last.

One might feel the CBand set is overshadowed by the Tyranitarite. While it may be true that the Tyranitarite has given Ttar placement in a better speed tier and the added bulk necessary to set up DDance(s) more easily, it takes a turn of set up that oftentimes can be undesirable.

Setting up with Mega-Tyranitar without being fazed, crippled, or sometimes OHKO'd can be difficult. Therefore, the immediate power of a Choice Band on Tyranitar can be extremely helpful for breaking holes through your opponents team, especially because it requires no set up turn.

Here's the standard set:

tyranitar.gif


Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 180 HP/252 Atk/76 Spe
Nature: Adamant
  • Stone Edge/Rock Slide
  • Crunch
  • Pursuit
  • Earthquake/Ice Punch
76 EVs are dumped in Spe to outpace uninvested base 70's, and the rest is dumped into Atk and HP for maximized bulk and power. Rock Slide is an option over Stone Edge if you fear the chance of missing, but beware the drop in power. Ice punch can be used if you want to punish x4 weak Pokemon effectively, namely Lando-T; however, Earthquake is generally the preferred option.
Click to expand...

I've seen this set on smogon (which is nothing bad, I used some BW analysis's too) but you made some changes to it. Firstly, stone edge beats the crunk shit out of Rock Slide. Earthquake and Ice Punch are both good moves, but Superpower is much better, as it counters other tyranitars and steel types even more than earthquake does. With 76 Speed EVs, you can outspeed other tyranitars and go for the OHKO.

BTW:

252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 322-380 (99 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 202-238 (62.1 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 400-472 (99 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 166-196 (41 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I would make fairer calcs, but you know what I mean, right?
 
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The Shellder Smuggler said:
I've seen this set on smogon (which is nothing bad, I used some BW analysis's too) but you made some changes to it. Firstly, stone edge beats the crunk shit out of Rock Slide. Earthquake and Ice Punch are both good moves, but Superpower is much better, as it counters other tyranitars and steel types even more than earthquake does. With 76 Speed EVs, you can outspeed other tyranitars and go for the OHKO.
Click to expand...

Superpower can be slashed, however with the prevalence of Aegislash it is undesirable to be locked into, especially with so much resisting it this gen (introduction of Fairy type) and the drop in power and defense that immediately follows its use. This leaves you incredibily vulnerable to set up sweepers who resist superpower.

As mentioned in my post, I already say stone edge is preferred, but rock slide may be used for increased accuracy at the cost of power.

If you had actually read the official XY analysis, CBand ttar does NOT have superpower listed as an option. It's exactly the set I posted because that set is the most effective and viable CBand Ttar in the 6th generation, SP banded Ttar is no longer as viable as it was in Gen 5 due to exactly the reasons I listed.
 
ReallyThough? said:
If you had actually read the official XY analysis, CBand ttar does NOT have superpower listed as an option. It's exactly the set I posted because that set is the most effective and viable CBand Ttar in the 6th generation, SP banded Ttar is no longer as viable as it was in Gen 5 due to exactly the reasons I listed.
Click to expand...

Don't try to act like I'm a newbie, I'm just trying to help you out. I am aware that the XY analysis does not have superpower as an option, but it still is almost as viable as it used to be, even with the prevalence of fairies. It has been a good bag for tyranitar this gen, even with fairies.

And no one will choose rock slide over stone edge, ever.
 
It's not listed because it's not as viable. If it was as viable, the XY analysis would have it slashed. Earthquake is the better option, as is ice punch as well.

Until you learn a bit more of the gen 6 meta I'll have a hard time taking you seriously. Especially since you suggested RETURN (lol) on choice band Talonflame.

P.s. no one good uses hydreigon this gen.
 
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