Other OU Teambuilding

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Yeah, Blastoise is a great tank.

Dark Pulse is pretty much mandatory on Mega Blastoise though, since his main perk is being able to beat spinblockers like Aegislash (and hazards setters like Deoxys-D), which is solely thanks to it. Scald is also generally preferred over Water Pulse because of the burn chance, which normally outweighs the slight damage increase.
 
Yeah, Blastoise is a great tank.

Dark Pulse is pretty much mandatory on Mega Blastoise though, since his main perk is being able to beat spinblockers like Aegislash (and hazards setters like Deoxys-D), which is solely thanks to it. Scald is also generally preferred over Water Pulse because of the burn chance, which normally outweighs the slight damage increase.
Scald is also a great option. I'll update my post with it.
 
USE
deoxys-speed.gif

Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 236 Spd / 252 SAtk / 20 Atk
Naive/Hasty Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Ice Beam
- Superpower
- Knock Off/HP [Fire]/Fire Punch

Role: Late-Game Cleaner

What it does: With nearly perfect coverage and speed that's over kill, it can outspeed many things such as ScarfChomp, and +1 Base 100's such as Charizard X. Psycho Boost, even though first on the list, is the strongest but should be reserved only for things you are not sure you can kill with other moves (The -2 drop hurts). Ice Beam is your coverage, although hitting just about everything weaker, it helps kill Landorus(T), Garchomp, or about anything that is 4x weak to it. Superpower OHKO's Mega TTar (With 4 HP EVs) with Stealth Rock down, and also takes a chunk of health away from walls such as Blissey. The last slot is your choice - Knock Off is usually the best option for really just smacking items off.There is also HP [Fire] which helps hit Aegislash and Ferrothorn, but if you want to hit on both sides reliably you can choose Fire Punch (There's only a 0.7% difference).

Good Teammates: Anything that can do major damage helps Deoxys-S greatly. Even with SAtk investments, Deoxys-S does not hit very hard due to only getting a 1.3x boost with Life Orb. Usually any Pokemon that can bring a Pokemon's Health below 50% helps it immensely. Entry hazards also help a lot to break Sashes, Sturdy, or maybe even pressure a switch, and make Deoxys' cleaning even easier. Pokemon that can also help clear out status make Deoxys put a big smile on it's face, even without a mouth, as almost every status cripples him.

What counters it: Anything faster then it. Deoxys is outsped by 105 Scarfed mons, meaning Landorus, Keldeo, Lati twins, and many others work very effectively to counter Deoxys. Pokemon that can survive a hit on switch or have a decent amount of health left can usually live a hit and smash it with a powerful move. As said above, if you can, just about any status cripples Deoxys and he wants to avoid it. Lastly, anything with Sucker Punch or a powerful priority basically makes it's life A LOT harder.

Any additional info: Deoxys can work as an effective lead - this is due to many people bringing in their anti-lead counter (say, Espeon) until they realize that it's gone due to it having a surprise factor. You might want to use it while you can, too, as everyone is beginning to realize that Deoxys-S is now usually an attacker. I also cannot stress this enough - Always bring it in when everything is weakened. Trust me on this one, it's incredible speed allows it to be one of the only late-game cleaners that can switch up moves.


Do not use
tyrantrum.gif

Tyrantrum @ Life Orb
Ability: Rock Head Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake/Elemental Fangs

Role: Physical Sweeper

What it does: Tyrantrum is one of the two Pokemon with Rock Head and Head Smash making it hit ridiculously hard. The goal is simple, the same as almost any Dragon Dance Sweeper. Try to get as many as Dragon Dances up as you can, and begin the rampage! Head Smash paired with Rock Head is arguably the best move in the game, with stab it hits an insane 225 Base Power. Sadly, Tyrantrum doesn't seem to get Rock Head as of now so it has to go with Stone Edge. It's best Dragon coverage move is Dragon Claw. Earthquake is the final move to hit steel types mainly. You can choose any other elemental fang if you wish, though, but Earthquake is generally the best option.

Good Teammates: Anything that lets Tyrantrum set up easily helps. Due to having rather bad typing being weak to many forms of priority/moves, and having a below decent amount of SDef, Tyrantrum definitely likes going with things helping it setup. Other good teammates are tanks that can help it sponge special attacks, or just attacks in general. Tyrantrum also likes the sandstorm as it increases it's special defence greatly.

What Counters it: Any super-effective special attack will destroy Tyrantrum's hopes and dreams. Like many other sweepers, it does not enjoy Thunder Wave (Thundurus), and Will-O-Wisp. Being weak to 6 types that are quite common this generation, it's hard for Tyrantrum to ever get a safe Dragon Dance up. The best counter is just what I said above, any super-effective move on the special side makes it fall on it's knees.

Any additional Info: I haven't had much time to test it out myself, but the reason it isn't very good is due to it's mediocre speed and horrible Special Defence, it's pretty much outclassed by other DDance sweepers as it's only real edge over them is having a super powered Head Smash with no recoil. But, on the other side it also can use Sandstorm very well, usually getting at least one DDance up. As of now, it isn't good due to Rock Head not being released, but once it is it might be pretty viable.

Edit:

This is the "Pokeaim Tank Zard set" if this isn't what you used, if it isn't then there's also the other one from the Charizard discussion on the OU page here. Here are both sets:

Pokeaim Tank Zard X
charizard-megax.gif

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze (Tough Claws)
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Atk / 188 SDef / 40 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost


Charizard Smogon Forums
charizard-megax.gif

Charizard @ CharizarditeX
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Speed / 136 HP / 120 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw

If you want I can explain both sets, just put a message here and I'll be glad to help.

Edit 2: Edited Rock Head Tyrantrum as I forgot it wasn't realeased (Thanks Sergeant Sppoky) and gave one more example of what Deoxys-S could outspeed with the EV Spread. (Thank you DC-Shadow)
IDK if this is too late, but on Deo-S, if you use HP Fire you need 240 speed EVs to outspeed scarfchomp - the extra four can come out of your choice of attack or special attack.
 
Pokeaim Tank Zard X
charizard-megax.gif

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze (Tough Claws)
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Atk / 188 SDef / 40 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost


Charizard Smogon Forums
charizard-megax.gif

Charizard @ CharizarditeX
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Speed / 136 HP / 120 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw

The problem I have with Pokeaim's set is that you now have a CHARIZARD that is walled by fucking SKARMORY!...
 
IDK if this is too late, but on Deo-S, if you use HP Fire you need 240 speed EVs to outspeed scarfchomp - the extra four can come out of your choice of attack or special attack.
Thanks for the nitpick, I'll edit it into the OP, :D

The problem I have with Pokeaim's set is that you now have a CHARIZARD that is walled by fucking SKARMORY!...
Well, first and for most - what can Skarmory do back? Charizard can cripple it will WoW, Skarmory can only set up hazards/Whirlwind it out - but in general at can't do anything. Either way, it's not even my set, so complain to Pokeaim if you wish XD
 
Well, first and for most - what can Skarmory do back? Charizard can cripple it will WoW, Skarmory can only set up hazards/Whirlwind it out - but in general at can't do anything. Either way, it's not even my set, so complain to Pokeaim if you wish XD
I wasn't complaining to YOU about it xD

Some Skarmory sets are known to have Toxic, and in the WoW+Roost vs Toxic+Roost, Toxic will win. Otherwise, you're correct. Neither party can touch each other. I'm just saying that I find it funny that in order for a Fire type like Charizard to do damage to a Steel like Skarmory, it has to burn stall it xD

Again, not saying the set itself is bad. I really like it.
 
I haven't run into a lot of Skarmory with Toxic. Its usually Roost / SR or phazing move / Brave Bird / Defog. And yeah, a burned Skarm can't really do much to Tank Zard X.
 
I haven't run into a lot of Skarmory with Toxic. Its usually Roost / SR or phazing move / Brave Bird / Defog. And yeah, a burned Skarm can't really do much to Tank Zard X.

Still, if Skarm is running Spikes, then Zard X could end up being Spike Fodder :/

Overall, I personally feel that Fire Move > EQ, as it still maintains great coverage, and all the things you need EQ for are handled by Will-o-Wisp barring Heatran.

I've used the set, it works, and is a nice spin on Standard Zard X that we see :P
 
Still, if Skarm is running Spikes, then Zard X could end up being Spike Fodder :/

Overall, I personally feel that Fire Move > EQ, as it still maintains great coverage, and all the things you need EQ for are handled by Will-o-Wisp barring Heatran.

I've used the set, it works, and is a nice spin on Standard Zard X that we see :P

I don't know, I don't really feel the need for a Fire-move TBH. Being hard-walled by Heatran just sucks. I also don't really see what Fire-moves are hitting that EQ doesn't bar Skarmory, who hates Will-O-Wisp, and can't really do anything besides Whirlwind or Spikes (Which, since you're most likely going to be running a Defog user while running Charizard, doesn't really matter.) I personally prefer EQ>Fire move, but then again, that's why there are two set options; so you can choose which one you prefer more.
 
Am I the only one who realized that we're having a Tank Zard Discussion on a OU Teambuilding Thread? I have a feeling we should stop before this thread (Which is insanely helpful btw) gets locked or something like that.
 
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Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 84 HP / 252 SAtk / 172 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Energy Ball / Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick

Role: Threat Remover, Bulky Attacker

What It Does: Gothitelle is one of the best trappers in the game, Being able to remove a variety of threats with its wide movepool and decent special attack. Gothitelle also has access to Trick, allowing it to cripple walls and physical attackers, while also being able to use Choice Specs effectively. It also has decent bulk, 70 / 95 / 110 allowing it to switch into most attacks without being heavily damaged. Gothitelle has a bit of a 4MSS but the most efficient set is Psychic Move / Energy Ball / Thunderbolt / Trick. Psychic or Psyshock allows it to deal STAB Damage, and Allows Gothitelle to Remove Mega Venasuar and Chesnaught. Energy Ball allows Gothitelle to deal with Quagsire, Slowbro and Rotom-W (Before it V-Switches) Thunderbolt takes out Skamory and Mandibuzz reliably. Trick allows Gothitelle to cripple walls Such as Chansey and Porygon2. Hidden Power Ice can be used for Gliscor, and Fire can be used for Ferrothorn & Scizor. The Evs allow Gothitelle to Outspeed Minimum-Speed Rotom-W and everything lower.

Good Teammates: Things that work well with Gothitelle are Pokemon who struggle with the above Pokemon, and are generally good at late-game sweeping. Both Mega Tyranitar and Mega Gyarados Fit this role Well, as they both have decent synergy will Gothitelle, Are good late game sweepers, and enjoy the above pokemon being eliminated.

What Counters It: Since Shadow Tag forces the opponent to stay in, you can't really "counter" Gothitelle. However, Gothitelle can easily be revenge killed by almost any attacker that is fast, or bulky enough. Attackers Such as Aegislash and Bisharp are examples, being able to solidly OHKO Gothitelle while Gothitelle cant touch them. U-Turners such as Scizor can be dangerous to sets that don't run HP-Fire as it forces Gothitelle to switch out, Decreasing your teams momentum. Although, if Gothitelle has already trapped the pokemon it needs to, you can leave it to die, and increase your teams momentum as you send out a pokemon after the opponent.

Any Additional Info: N/A
 
Last edited:
576.png

Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 84 HP / 252 SAtk / 172 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Energy Ball / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Trick

Role: Threat Remover, Bulky Attacker

What It Does: Gothitelle is one of the best trappers in the game, Being able to remove a variety of threats with its wide movepool and decent special attack. Gothitelle also has access to Trick, allowing it to cripple walls and physical attackers, while also being able to use Choice Specs effectively. It also has decent bulk, 70 / 95 / 110 allowing it to switch into most attacks without being heavily damaged. Gothitelle has a bit of a 4MSS but the most efficient set is Psychic Move / Energy Ball / Thunderbolt / Trick. Psychic or Psyshock allows it to deal STAB Damage, and Allows Gothitelle to Remove Mega Venasuar and Chesnaught. Energy Ball allows Gothitelle to deal with Quagsire, Slowbro and Rotom-W (Before it V-Switches) Thunderbolt takes out Skamory and Mandibuzz reliably. Trick allows Gothitelle to cripple walls Such as Chansey and Porygon2. Hidden Power Ice can be used for Gliscor. The Evs allow Gothitelle to Outspeed Rotom-W and everything lower.

Good Teammates: Things that work well with Gothitelle are Pokemon who struggle with the above Pokemon, and are generally good at late-game sweeping. Both Mega Tyranitar and Mega Gyarados Fit this role Well, as they both have decent synergy will Gothitelle, Are good late game sweepers, and enjoy the above pokemon being eliminated.

What Counters It: Since Shadow Tag forces the opponent to stay in, you can't really "counter" Gothitelle. However, Gothitelle can easily be revenge killed by almost any attacker that is fast enough

Any Additional Info: N/A

Aegislash is a counter to this set. It's unaffected by Shadow Tag due to its Ghost typing, and it resists all of this Pokemon's offensive moves. Plus, it hits it back hard with Shadow Ball:

252+ (Quiet) SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Gothitelle: 294-348 (97.3 - 115.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

4 SpA (Brave) Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Gothitelle: 228-270 (75.4 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And beware if you Tricked your Specs onto Aegislash:

4 SpA (Brave) Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Gothitelle: 338-402 (111.9 - 133.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

As you can see in the above calcs, Aegislash will wreck this Gothitelle set to hell and back, unless Gothitelle carries Shadow Ball:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothitelle Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 162-192 (50 - 59.2%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothitelle Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 396-468 (122.2 - 144.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Or if you Tricked your Specs onto Aegishash:

252+ SpA Gothitelle Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 110-130 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Gothitelle Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 266-314 (82 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

In conclusion, you'll have to list Aegislash as a counter to this set, and I recommend listing Shadow Ball as one of Gothitelle's attacking options, since Shadow Tag does nothing to Ghosts, and you'll at least have a chance to do something about them.
 
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Aegislash is a counter to this set. It's unaffected by Shadow Tag due to its Ghost typing, and it resists all of this Pokemon's offensive moves. Plus, it hits it back hard with Shadow Ball:

252+ (Quiet) SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Gothitelle: 294-348 (97.3 - 115.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

4 SpA (Brave) Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Gothitelle: 228-270 (75.4 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And beware if you Tricked your Specs onto Aegislash:

4 SpA (Brave) Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Gothitelle: 338-402 (111.9 - 133.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

As you can see in the above calcs, Aegislash will wreck this Gothitelle set to hell and back, unless Gothitelle carries Shadow Ball:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothitelle Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 162-192 (50 - 59.2%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothitelle Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 396-468 (122.2 - 144.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Or if you Tricked your Specs onto Aegishash:

252+ SpA Gothitelle Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 110-130 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Gothitelle Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 266-314 (82 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

In conclusion, you'll have to list Aegislash as a counter to this set, and I recommend listing Shadow Ball as one of Gothitelle's attacking options, since Shadow Tag does nothing to Ghosts, and you'll at least have a chance to do something about them.

Goth already Has the 4MSS, and it doesn't need Shadow ball, as it's not going to stay in on any ghots, that's for the rest of the team. ^_^ Oh and I Added Aegi as a counter
 
Goth already Has the 4MSS, and it doesn't need Shadow ball, as it's not going to stay in on any ghots, that's for the rest of the team. ^_^ Oh and I Added Aegi as a counter
True, true.
No it's not. It can't switch in. Ghosts aren't trapped by Shadow Tag but they can't switch in to it.
I never said anything about switching in to Gothitelle. If Aegislash is in on a Gothitelle and, for some dastardly reason decides that it wants to switch out, it can. And when it does stay in, none of Goth's attacking moves besides T-bolt will do much to Aegi.
 
Sorry for the double post (and the heavy scrutinizing on your set...I like it a lot, but I'm just trying to help ;-;) but there's also another thing about the set that I forgot to mention. It's prone to Volt Switching and especially U-Turning. A U-Turn from a Scizor:

252+ Atk Scizor U-turn vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Gothitelle: 264-312 (87.4 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Mega Scizor U-turn vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Gothitelle: 290-344 (96 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Gothitelle: 392-464 (129.8 - 153.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

...will do serious damage and keep its team's momentum going, especially if it switches into a volt-switcher on a Volt-Turn team, or into a Ghost or Dark type Pokemon. Not sure if you would necessarily call this a counter, per say, but it's something to keep in mind with Gothitelle's Psychic typing.

Again, I'm not trying to bash your set with all of this scrutiny. Your set sounds awesome and it makes me want to try out a Goth one of these days. Keep it up :]
 
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garchomp-mega.png
Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 180 Atk / 252 SpA / 80 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Stone Edge / Substitute / Stealth Rock

This set has too many EVs. 180+252+80=512

Just to avoid some possible confusion to new players.
 
Sorry for the double post (and the heavy scrutinizing on your set...I like it a lot, but I'm just trying to help ;-;) but there's also another thing about the set that I forgot to mention. It's prone to Volt Switching and especially U-Turning. A U-Turn from a Scizor:

252+ Atk Scizor U-turn vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Gothitelle: 264-312 (87.4 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Scizor U-turn vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Gothitelle: 290-344 (96 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Gothitelle: 392-464 (129.8 - 153.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

...will do serious damage and keep its team's momentum going, especially if it switches into a volt-switcher on a Volt-Turn team, or into a Ghost or Dark type Pokemon. Not sure if you would necessarily call this a counter, per say, but it's something to keep in mind with Gothitelle's Psychic typing.

Again, I'm not trying to bash your set with all of this scrutiny. Your set sounds awesome and it makes me want to try out a Goth one of these days. Keep it up :]
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothitelle Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 416-492 (120.9 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothitelle Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 348-412 (101.1 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Unless Scizor is running quite a bit of speed investment, which is far from standard, Goth beats it easily.

On Aegislash - it can't counter Gothitelle because of the definition of "counter" - specifically, a counter must be able to switch in to the thing it is countering. Aegislash (and anything else) can't do that because of Shadow Tag, so it is technically impossible to counter Goth.
 
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252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothitelle Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 416-492 (120.9 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothitelle Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 348-412 (101.1 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Unless Scizor is running quite a bit of speed investment, which is far from standard, Goth beats it easily.

On Aegislash - it can't counter Gothitelle because of the definition of "counter" - specifically, a counter must be able to switch in to the thing it is countering. Aegislash (and anything else) can't do that because of Shadow Tag, so it is technically impossible to counter Goth.

Not trying to be a douche, but I thought Ghost-types were no longer affected by trapping moves/abilities?
 
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