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Pokémon Hoopa
- Thread starter Delibird is Amazing
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Watch it get Drain Punch and not Focus Blast, js. But if this thing gets Trick I can see a potential Trick Scarf set to patch up Speed while crippling stuff. And don't dismiss it because it's weak to Knock Off, so is Aegislash, albeit not a 4x weakness but still (I AM NOT COMPARING THEM! Only their weakness to KO.) And I can see a Choice Specs set being potentially good if you be very careful how you play, I mean:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 433-511 (60.6 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 318-375 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock [OHKO if running 4HP/252Def/252SpD]
That's really fucking good if you ask me. The one move I'm really hoping it gets is Trick, maybe Will-O-Wisp and Focus Blast too, but that may be just wishful thinking. But seriously, this thing will probably be high RU, sadly. But for all we know it could come back and become OU like Diggersby did (well BL but whatever) and it could have something to shock us all. Let's not dismiss it just yet, but I'm honestly not too excited for it sadly.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 433-511 (60.6 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 318-375 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock [OHKO if running 4HP/252Def/252SpD]
That's really fucking good if you ask me. The one move I'm really hoping it gets is Trick, maybe Will-O-Wisp and Focus Blast too, but that may be just wishful thinking. But seriously, this thing will probably be high RU, sadly. But for all we know it could come back and become OU like Diggersby did (well BL but whatever) and it could have something to shock us all. Let's not dismiss it just yet, but I'm honestly not too excited for it sadly.
I feel like it's way too early to say it sucks. The ability is bad, and the typing is not that good. However, it hits like a truck specially, can hit from the physical side as well, has good special bulk, a pretty cool signature move (although Psyshock is probably still better), and a speed stat workable with a Scarf. As Chesnaught said, if it gets Trick, it will be a very good Scarf user.
Know you're note comparing them, but Aegislash has titanic defenses so even strong, STAB Knock Offs won't always do it. Hoopa's typing isn't that much of a problem. Ghost STAB is always useful and so is STAB Psyshock. Yeah Knock Off is common but so is Close Combat and Tyranitar can get by (though it has stupid levels of bulk.)
Hoopa's real problem is its poor speed, poor physical defense, awful signature move, and equally awful Ability. In RU, I can't actually think of a (good) Delphox set that uses Magician, they all use Blaze. Fucking BLAZE is the better ability for Delphox.
Hoopa's typing and stats have been known for awhile now, really the only salvation for it would have been some awesome ability like Prankster or some shit. But nah. Magician.
It has one of the worst typings in the game and probably the worst typing of a legendary. (Along with Celebi)
Im gonna write an angry letter to trollfreak to get this guys ability to prankster pronto
but they would probably be mad that we know
but they would probably be mad that we know
Okay, you people are really exaggerating how bad this thing is. I don't think it'll be top tier OU by any means, but Hoopa honestly doesn't look nearly as bad as several users have made it out to be. Base 150 SpA is incredible, and STAB Shadow Ball is one of the easiest moves to spam in the metagame. Base 70 Spe isn't fast, but it is by no means terrible. It's more than enough to outspeed a slew of slower Pokemon, and once it's in on something it can outspeed, base 150 SpA with a boosting item and one of the most spammable STABs in the game is downright scary. It also outspeeds pretty much every common unboosted Pokemon in the metagame with a Choice Scarf with the exception of Mega Manectric/Alakazam, so it has a bit of potential there.
On the defensive side of things, it's still not as bad as people are making it out to be. Yeah, it's 4x weak to Dark and Ghost. It's not the end of the world, especially when those are the only weaknesses it has. Being weak to Pursuit and Sucker Punch sucks, but Gengar's not exactly taking them very easily and he turned out alright. Meanwhile, a Fighting immunity is pretty nice, and its Normal immunity and Poison/Psychic resistances can come in handy from time to time. 80/60/130 defenses are also pretty good. Hoopa's physical bulk may not be much, but its special bulk is really good. It's on Latias's level, to be exact. To demonstrate how bulky it is, a completely uninvested Hoopa can take a Specs Draco Meteor from Latios from full health 100% of the time. As long as you avoid random Shadow Balls and Dark Pulses, Hoopa is capable of taking a pretty wide range of special attacks.
Let's also not forget that we don't have the whole story yet as far as movepool goes. For all we know, it could have a fantastic offensive movepool that'll make up for its disappointing speed. It may look weak to Tyranitar and Bisharp now, but give it Focus Blast and Will-O-Wisp on a Substitute set and suddenly neither of those two want to switch into it. There's still a lot of possibilities, so it's honestly too early to be bashing it.
On the defensive side of things, it's still not as bad as people are making it out to be. Yeah, it's 4x weak to Dark and Ghost. It's not the end of the world, especially when those are the only weaknesses it has. Being weak to Pursuit and Sucker Punch sucks, but Gengar's not exactly taking them very easily and he turned out alright. Meanwhile, a Fighting immunity is pretty nice, and its Normal immunity and Poison/Psychic resistances can come in handy from time to time. 80/60/130 defenses are also pretty good. Hoopa's physical bulk may not be much, but its special bulk is really good. It's on Latias's level, to be exact. To demonstrate how bulky it is, a completely uninvested Hoopa can take a Specs Draco Meteor from Latios from full health 100% of the time. As long as you avoid random Shadow Balls and Dark Pulses, Hoopa is capable of taking a pretty wide range of special attacks.
Let's also not forget that we don't have the whole story yet as far as movepool goes. For all we know, it could have a fantastic offensive movepool that'll make up for its disappointing speed. It may look weak to Tyranitar and Bisharp now, but give it Focus Blast and Will-O-Wisp on a Substitute set and suddenly neither of those two want to switch into it. There's still a lot of possibilities, so it's honestly too early to be bashing it.
Assault Vest T-tar shouldn't care much about a non-Stab Focus Blast. It will definitely live on and be able to hit back with Crunch.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 308-364 (76.2 - 90%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Using Blade Aegislash as a template because it has the same Special Attack and doesn't get STAB on Focus Blast. As you can see, it does a fair chunk. Honestly, like Agent Gibbs said, I think people are really underestimating just how strong 150 base anything really is. If it can blow through the most specially defensive Tyranitar possible with just a little prior damage, I'm pretty sure it'll hurt a lot of other things as well. It's a shame it speed ties with Bisharp...
Using Blade Aegislash as a template because it has the same Special Attack and doesn't get STAB on Focus Blast. As you can see, it does a fair chunk. Honestly, like Agent Gibbs said, I think people are really underestimating just how strong 150 base anything really is. If it can blow through the most specially defensive Tyranitar possible with just a little prior damage, I'm pretty sure it'll hurt a lot of other things as well. It's a shame it speed ties with Bisharp...
This thing makes Bisharp drop his panties like a bitch in heat. Base 70 Speed, and 4x weak to Dark?
Anyway, the best thing I can see for Hoopa is a scarf set that allows him to capitalize off that monstrous SpecAtt. But even then, he's a really slow scarfer. And it's not like that'll help him against Sucker Punch. Also, since a huge portion of the meta is running knock off its not like he can switch into much without be nailed. I can't see him more than RU.
Anyway, the best thing I can see for Hoopa is a scarf set that allows him to capitalize off that monstrous SpecAtt. But even then, he's a really slow scarfer. And it's not like that'll help him against Sucker Punch. Also, since a huge portion of the meta is running knock off its not like he can switch into much without be nailed. I can't see him more than RU.
I'm sorry, but I just needed to post here because I've been re-watching DBZ Abridged again and having that Piccolo voice in my head - just made me laugh as hard as a Magikarp using Swagger.
Anywhere, where was I? Oh yeah. I see Hoopa using a Scarf set to boost it's speed to levels that can at least outspeed most Pokemon. Once this is all finished, Hoopa can use it's monstrous Special Attack, and it's actually very powerful Double-Stab to nail things right in the butt. I also think that the typing Psychic/Ghost may be bad, but it's not terrible. It only has two weaknesses, while coming in with 2 immunities, and a few resists. We also can't judge this thing being absolutely terrible, but from this info I believe it will be High RU, or around the low UU pieces at best.
This thing is also definitely going to not get Focus Blast.
CALLING IT RIGHT NOW.
Well then, T-tar can't switch in into Focus Blast, but it's very capable of taking a Focus Blast without Rocks on the field and taking Hoopa out with Crunch.
It's too early to tell if this thing is good enough or not. Who thought Charizard and Talonflame would be this good this generation? But so far, the signs are not good, Hoopa has a useless ability and a really bad typing. It has some good stats, that could've been distributed in a better way and its speed is not good enough. There are some Pokemons which you can tell that they are gonna be good before they are released like Volcanion. Unfortunately, stats aside, not much looks good for Hoopa.
Finally. I don't know how people saw 150 SpA with Ghost STAB (that shit is worth like 20 base SpA by itself), 80/130 special bulk and immediately thought to compare it to Delphox. With base 150 special attack you don't even need to invest in it to hit hard, as uninvested 150 SpA comes to a very respectable 336. That's 30 points under fully invested +Speed Latios.
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hoopa: 110-133 (30.2 - 36.5%) -- 50.6% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hoopa: 138-164 (37.9 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
There are not many things that are OU viable that can take these kind of hits while hitting back harder than (non-life orb) Latias. It basically forces these pokemon to run knock off to beat it. Most importantly though, this is without knowing Hooper's movepool. If Hoopa gets Recover (Gamefreak pls), it can definitely be worked onto a stall team.
Personally, I think Psychic is wasted on this guy alongside its Ghost-typing. It must almost compulsorily run Substitute+Shadow Ball. I think the remaining two moveslots are better spent on a boosting/coverage move and a utility move rather than a Psychic STAB.
Plus, Hyperspace Hole is very meh as signature moves go. Just look at Diamond Storm.
Running Hoopa mixed might be its best use, although I doubt it will get a good physical Fighting move.
Plus, Hyperspace Hole is very meh as signature moves go. Just look at Diamond Storm.
Running Hoopa mixed might be its best use, although I doubt it will get a good physical Fighting move.
Unless he gets a bunch of unexpected moves his best set will probably be smth like this:
Shadow Ball
Substitute
Will-o-wisp/Disable
Taunt/Focus Blast/Dazzling Gleam
Which makes it a slower, bulkier (read: worse) version of Gengar which makes me doubt its viability in OU.
Shadow Ball
Substitute
Will-o-wisp/Disable
Taunt/Focus Blast/Dazzling Gleam
Which makes it a slower, bulkier (read: worse) version of Gengar which makes me doubt its viability in OU.
It might be able to do some hit and running with a specs set, but it will need a teammate to eliminate the pursuit trappers. U-Turn would be nifty on this thing, and I wouldn't be surprised if it got it.
If he gets Trick Room, I could see a niche as setter.
252 Hp/ 252 Spa/ 4 Def
Substitute
Trick Room
Shadow Ball
Hyperspace hole/Psyshock
Sadly team support is a must, with two 4x weaknesses, but his defences are pretty good, so he's not a complete slouch.
252 Hp/ 252 Spa/ 4 Def
Substitute
Trick Room
Shadow Ball
Hyperspace hole/Psyshock
Sadly team support is a must, with two 4x weaknesses, but his defences are pretty good, so he's not a complete slouch.
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Hoopa can be fast and powerful at the same time, while Flareon cannot. Hoopa has better everything except for attack, and likely will have a better movepool.
To be honest I don't see the comparison :P
This thing looks like the ultimate Pursuit bait. It's basically a 100% safe switch-in for Tyranitar and Bisharp unless it gets Focus Blast (I guess HP Fighting will do for Bisharp, but it's shitty for everything else).
Its signature move is also a much worse version of Shadow/Phantom Force.
I wonder if it's going to get an alternate form. Right now it seems it's going to be really bad even in UU.
Its signature move is also a much worse version of Shadow/Phantom Force.
I wonder if it's going to get an alternate form. Right now it seems it's going to be really bad even in UU.
Aegislash simply has this thing cornered, not only can the sword kill this thing very easily, it's stats and typing allow it to pretty much outclass hoopa in every way unless hoopa gets some miraculous combination of moves.
Think about it, aegislash has a BST equivalent to 720, it equals hoopa in Special Attack, beats it in phys. attack, is absurdly superior in defense, has about the same Sp. Def. (counting HP differences), with slightly slower speed.
The only thing hoopa MIGHT have over aegislash is reliable recovery, and a better movepool. But aegislash has all the movepool it needs and it's defensive sets don't need reliable recovery outside of leftovers.
Aegislash will probably be the only reason this thing needs to be sent to a lower tier, as it can both beat it 1v1 with shadow sneak, and completely outperform it.
Think about it, aegislash has a BST equivalent to 720, it equals hoopa in Special Attack, beats it in phys. attack, is absurdly superior in defense, has about the same Sp. Def. (counting HP differences), with slightly slower speed.
The only thing hoopa MIGHT have over aegislash is reliable recovery, and a better movepool. But aegislash has all the movepool it needs and it's defensive sets don't need reliable recovery outside of leftovers.
Aegislash will probably be the only reason this thing needs to be sent to a lower tier, as it can both beat it 1v1 with shadow sneak, and completely outperform it.
They're similar in the vein of "powerful but slow and with a shitty typing" I'm not saying Hoopa is as bad as Flareon (lol) but neither are going to make any impact on OU any time soon.
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