Metagame NP: RU Stage -1: Message to Oglemi, Nails, and Honko (VENOMOTH STOLEN FROM US))

[KingQuags]

I'm actually disappointed about Sticky web, as nobody tends to use it

Good riddance. That broken piece of shit can stay off the field for as long as it wants to.

A set I've considered and have yet to put on one of my teams. What do you guys think?
Pyroar (M cuz dat mane) @ Weakness Policy
Moxie 252Spe (still hav to do calcs to determine spA and At ev's)
Flamethrower/Fire blast
Hyper voice/ Return
Dark Pulse/Crunch/Hp ice
Wild Charge

I've been seeing far too many Pyroar in RU lately. It can kindly stay down in NU where it belongs. And like what was said before, being as frail as it is, Weakness Policy is a miserable idea on Pyroar. If it gets hit by anything super effective it's going to die.

Then regards to Reuniclus.
I've been enjoying this Jelly Baby far too much in the tier. I've been using it with Max HP and Max Defense (which I'm pretty sure is the most standard set for it) and decided to use Shadow Ball over Focus Blast as its coverage move, mainly so I can deal with Cresselia a lot easier. Plus Hitmonlee has been such an awesome offensive partner for it. Being able to get a heavy hit on the ghosts that want to switch into a High Jump Kick, while dealing with the Steels and Darks that Reuniclus can't deal with is awesome.

 

[Turtleye]

And once again I come with another Pokemon you should try out.

Golbat @ Eviolite
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Toxic
- Defog
- Roost

Best. Wall. Ever. Golbat is amazing defensively. While 75/80/75 defenses may not seem good, it can utilize Eviolite to become one hell of a bulky bat. It's typing is also wonderful, having 3 4x resists in Grass, Bug and Fight, and although Bug and Grass aren't exactly common, that's still good. It also resists Fairy and is immune to ground. It is also immune to Toxic which is cool.
Moving to the moveset, it is one of the few 'mons in the tier to get Defog so it can remove hazards, while being immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes. SR Weakness is annoying but you have recovery in Roost anyway. Toxic is used for walls like Gastrodon and things like Cresselia. Brave Bird is there so it isn't Taunt bait and packs quite a punch actually, but you can use Super Fang as well.
Also Infiltrator is cool against Sub.

However like every mon, Golbat has downsides which I'll note here so you can get teammates to help with them.
First of all it's weak to Knock Off, like all Eviolite users. So getting something that can sponge Knock Offs is quite handy, like Cobalion or Gastrodon. It also has a weakness to Electric (Raikou), Psychic (Cresselia, Reuniclus, etc) and Ice, so getting something that can handle those is very useful. It also lacks the ability to do anything to Steels and lastly Golbat has quite some 4MSS, as it would also love to run Taunt, U-turn, Haze, Whirlwind and Super Fang along with the moves above. It is also a little suspectible to Paralyze and Burns, so watch out for those.
So basically, use Gastrodon a Ground or Steel mon to cover Golbat's cons.

Calc center
252+ Atk Escavalier Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Golbat: 133-157 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Shaymin Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 40-48 (11.2 - 13.5%) -- possible 8HKO
252 SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 102-120 (28.8 - 33.8%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 170-204 (48 - 57.6%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Golbat: 169-199 (47.7 - 56.2%) -- 83.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 133-156 (37.5 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Reckless Hitmonlee Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Golbat: 146-172 (41.2 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[Monte Cristo]

The council decided that at least until the next tier change by usage, that it would be best to only do those three initial quick bans. Since RU is still in the beta stage and tier changes will be made monthly, it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to ban too many Pokemon when the meta game is changing every single month. When RU becomes official, there will be suspect tests, and depending on the state of the meta, Cresselia is a very strong potential candidate (although lets be real here, Reuniclus is a better CM user ;o). In the mean time, if you are struggling to deal with Cresselia, there are some good responses to it such as Escavalier, Drapion, Skuntank, and Cofagrigus, it also struggles to set up if you don't allow it a free switch and keep up high offensive pressure, as without set up it is pretty weak. Hope my explanation made sense / cleared how the council is approaching the meta at the moment :).

Skuntank and Drapion don't beat it, often Knock Off and Pursuit doesn't 2HKO and most Cresselias carry Moonblast often nowadays. Also please don't compare Cresselia and Reuniclus, they may be Calm Minders (although I think OTR Reu and support Cress are more standard than their CM variants), but Reuniclus simply doesn't have RAW bulk cress has and Cress doesn't have Reu's powerful 125 base SpA and recover, although Cress' bulk (and better POSSIBLE coverage between Moonblast/HP/Ice Beam/STAB) makes up for that. These are some of the great misconceptions of cresselia (the oens you accused) and I'm glad to clear them up:

• 252+ Atk Drapion Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 174-206 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ Atk Skuntank Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 146-174 (32.8 - 39.1%) -- 8.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• +3 4 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Drapion: 170-201 (49.4 - 58.4%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
  
• +3 4 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skuntank: 201-237 (49 - 57.8%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
• 252+ Atk Skuntank Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 200-236 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- 18.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ Atk Drapion Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 236-278 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 252+ Atk Drapion Knock Off (65 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 158-188 (37.2 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[Expulso]

Skuntank and Drapion don't beat it, often Knock Off and Pursuit doesn't 2HKO and most Cresselias carry Moonblast often nowadays. Also please don't compare Cresselia and Reuniclus, they may be Calm Minders (although I think OTR Reu and support Cress are more standard than their CM variants), but Reuniclus simply doesn't have RAW bulk cress has and Cress doesn't have Reu's powerful 125 base SpA and recover, although Cress' bulk (and better POSSIBLE coverage between Moonblast/HP/Ice Beam/STAB) makes up for that. These are some of the great misconceptions of cresselia (the oens you accused) and I'm glad to clear them up:

• 252+ Atk Drapion Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 174-206 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ Atk Skuntank Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 146-174 (32.8 - 39.1%) -- 8.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• +3 4 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Drapion: 170-201 (49.4 - 58.4%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
  
• +3 4 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skuntank: 201-237 (49 - 57.8%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
• 252+ Atk Skuntank Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 200-236 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- 18.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ Atk Drapion Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 236-278 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 252+ Atk Drapion Knock Off (65 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 158-188 (37.2 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Those defensive calce aren't running AV, so you could have SD on it. At +2, Drapion can KO Cresselia after SR; +4 lets it always OHKO, and it can Pursuit at +2 for heavy damage (~70%).

Reuniclus is OHKOd by +2 Knock Off, and likely +2 Pursuit (idk)

In conclusion, use SD Drapion to beat Psychics :)

 

[aVocado]

Those defensive calce aren't running AV, so you could have SD on it. At +2, Drapion can KO Cresselia after SR; +4 lets it always OHKO, and it can Pursuit at +2 for heavy damage (~70%).

Reuniclus is OHKOd by +2 Knock Off, and likely +2 Pursuit (idk)

In conclusion, use SD Drapion to beat Psychics :)

what.

non-AV Drapion =/= SD Drapion. There are defensive, non-offensive sets with t.spikes, you know.

 

[Expulso]

what.

non-AV Drapion =/= SD Drapion. There are defensive, non-offensive sets with t.spikes, you know.

"you could have SD on it"

I'm just pointing out that there is a variant of Drapion that does check these Pokemon, and t.spikes variants may even involve Cresselia switching into the spikes and being stalled out. sorry im dumb :s thanks Arikado

 

[aVocado]

Cresselia has Levitate, so spikes/t.spikes don't affect it.

 

[Golemman]

Wow sorry for trying to bring up a new idea, be creative, and attempt to spur on discussion about a different mon. A simple "doesn't seem plausible because his stats aren't the best" would have been fine. Anyway, I started to do some calcs with different mons and trying different ev spreads but doesn't seem like it's going to work.
Well after that failed topic, I am not exactly sure where I stand on Cresselia. It's so stinking bulky with a large movepool, and is something I sure wouldn't mind to see go. I'm just not sure if it should because of all the dark types in the tier.

 

[skies]

A set I've considered and have yet to put on one of my teams. What do you guys think?
Pyroar (M cuz dat mane) @ Weakness Policy
Moxie 252Spe (still hav to do calcs to determine spA and At ev's)
Flamethrower/Fire blast
Hyper voice/ Return
Dark Pulse/Crunch/Hp ice
Wild Charge

This thing just looks like it should work really well! It makes good use of his many weaknesses, attacking stats and movepool. First, get hit and live an SE hit (hardest part probly). Second, destroy something at +2 with good coverage and nab a bonus attack boost. At +3 attack, wild charge should disintegrate any bulky waters wh try to stop you, although recoil after an SE hit could end it. Thoughts?

Oh also, Punchshroom what did you think of my comparison?

stop talking about shit pkmn. ru isnt the bottom of the barrel; it has plenty of great mons. no reason to compare meowstic and kadabra when both are shit mons.

Anyways, I still like Meowstic-F u.u. Another Pokemon I've been using a lot and enjoying a ton is Heliolisk! Heliolisk is a Pokemon that I've always been rather fond of and it fits pretty well in RU! It has insane coverage and the only really huge problem is that it is rather outclassed by Raikou. However the two do have differences. First off, I'm very aware that Raikou has better stats everywhere, but that doesn't mean Heliolisk is bad. Heliolisk has a Normal-typeing, so it's immune to Shadow Ball and Shadow Sneak, while granting it an unfortunate weakness to Fighting. Heliolisk's saving grace is its movepool, which consists of U-turn, Surf, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, Dark Pulse, and even Glare to catch faster switch-ins off guard. It also has Dragon Tail for what it's worth, not like it has the bulk to use it.
Focus Blast is the key reason to use Heliolisk, it is more powerful than Specs Raikou's Aura Sphere:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raikou Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 302-356 (78.6 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 346-408 (90.1 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Another neat thing about Heliolisk are its abilities: Dry Skin, Solar Power, and Sand Veil. Dry Skin gives it an immunity to Water-Type moves and recovers health under rain, while Solar Power amps its power up to unbelievable heights. Which, if I calculated correctly, is an equivalent of a base stat of 187 under Sun, which is scary, all at the expense of losing 1/4 health every turn (solar power + life orb). But yeah, Heliolisk is a very fun Pokemon and if Raikou gets banned I recommend you try it out!

 

[aVocado]

Heliolisk is like Florges in OU. It's completely overshadowed by a fellow Pokemon of the same type, which is Raikou. There is literally no reason to use Heliolisk over Raikou, even for the water immunity. Raikou's got better bulk, speed, and power, while Heliolisk has Dry Skin and.. Surf? to make it a bit different from Raikou, but not enough to justify using it over Raikou.

Until Raikou's banned, Helio shouldn't be used over Raikou.

 

[skies]

Heliolisk is like Florges in OU. It's completely overshadowed by a fellow Pokemon of the same type, which is Raikou. There is literally no reason to use Heliolisk over Raikou, even for the water immunity. Raikou's got better bulk, speed, and power, while Heliolisk has Dry Skin and.. Surf? to make it a bit different from Raikou, but not enough to justify using it over Raikou.

Until Raikou's banned, Helio shouldn't be used over Raikou.

That's what I'm saying, I was trying to refrain from flat-out saying Raikou banning. And Focus Blast is more powerful than Aura Sphere, and Heliolisk is better suited on Weather teams, where it does outshine Raikou.

 

[Kevun]

Heliolisk is like Florges in OU. It's completely overshadowed by a fellow Pokemon of the same type, which is Raikou. There is literally no reason to use Heliolisk over Raikou, even for the water immunity. Raikou's got better bulk, speed, and power, while Heliolisk has Dry Skin and.. Surf? to make it a bit different from Raikou, but not enough to justify using it over Raikou.

Until Raikou's banned, Helio shouldn't be used over Raikou.

True, under normal circumstances, Raikou completely eclipses it, but Heliolisk does have one niche where it preforms quite a bit better than it's older cousin - weather teams. With access to Surf, a powerful STAB Thunder, and Dry Skin, its a premier special attacker in the rain, and in the sun, like stated, it becomes extremely powerful with Solar Power.

Sure, Raikou does better in most cirumstances, but this niche justifies its use on some teams.

 

[Don Honchkrorleone]

Heliolisk is like Florges in OU. It's completely overshadowed by a fellow Pokemon of the same type, which is Raikou. There is literally no reason to use Heliolisk over Raikou, even for the water immunity. Raikou's got better bulk, speed, and power, while Heliolisk has Dry Skin and.. Surf? to make it a bit different from Raikou, but not enough to justify using it over Raikou.

Until Raikou's banned, Helio shouldn't be used over Raikou.

It's not outclassed, they play differently. Raikou's best role is as a bulky sweeper with Calm Mind or an AV user to help against Tornadus and more. Heliolisk is better as an all-out LO attacker due its great movepool, while Raikou has a mediocre weak movepool outside of its main STAB. Want another reason? It beats Raikou. And Gligar! Raikou can only do that if using HP Water or Weather Ball in rain. Heliolisk can just use Surf and Grass Knot. Additionaly, Heliolisk can switch into a lot of Bulky Waters like Milotic and Alomomola without fearing Scald, something Raikou hates since passive damage screws it. Not to mention that it's really good against monoattackng Ghosts such as Cofagrigus. tl;dr: If want to go as a sweeper and/or bulky attacker, use Raikou. If you want a fast Electric wih amazing movepool and a grat LO attacker, use Heliolisk.

I just simply can't understand all Heliolisk spite. If you play him NOT AS A F***ING RAIKOU BUT AS ITSELF you'll get nice results. Also LOL raikou banned

 

[Durant]

True, under normal circumstances, Raikou completely eclipses it, but Heliolisk does have one niche where it preforms quite a bit better than it's older cousin - weather teams. With access to Surf, a powerful STAB Thunder, and Dry Skin, its a premier special attacker in the rain, and in the sun, like stated, it becomes extremely powerful with Solar Power.

Sure, Raikou does better in most cirumstances, but this niche justifies its use on some teams.

While Heliolisk is very useful on rain teams with Dry Skin and all of that, so is Raikou. Raikou also gets STAB Thunder is the rain and Weather Ball through an event. So even then Heliolisk faces competition from Raikou but Heliolisk still works well on rain teams.

 

[Gary]

Heliolisk is like Florges in OU. It's completely overshadowed by a fellow Pokemon of the same type, which is Raikou. There is literally no reason to use Heliolisk over Raikou, even for the water immunity. Raikou's got better bulk, speed, and power, while Heliolisk has Dry Skin and.. Surf? to make it a bit different from Raikou, but not enough to justify using it over Raikou.

Until Raikou's banned, Helio shouldn't be used over Raikou.

That's such a bad comparison. Florges is outclassed by Sylveon in OU because they're pretty much the exact same Pokemon but Sylveon has a better ability, better stat distribution, and higher HP which allows it to pass bigger Wishes. Raikou and Heliosk on the other hand have glaring similarities with Raikou outclassing it in some roles, but Heliosk is by no means completely eclipsed by it at all. I was going to write up why Heliosk is better in some instances, but the user above me ninjad the fuck out of me, although he basically said everything I was going to say.

If you're going to draw comparisons, at least do something more practical. Sylveon is basically a better Florges in almost every way. Heliosk has several attributes that separate it from Raikou, and they're blatantly obvious. Dry Skin letting it switch into bulky Water-types with ease is huge, the ability to fuck over both Gligar and Rhyperior in the same moveset, actually OHKOing Rhyperior with Grass Knot, which Raikou fails to do even with Life Orb.

 

[aVocado]

It's not outclassed, they play differently. Raikou's best role is as a bulky sweeper with Calm Mind or an AV user to help against Tornadus and more. Heliolisk is better as an all-out LO attacker due its great movepool, while Raikou has a mediocre weak movepool outside of its main STAB. Want another reason? It beats Raikou. And Gligar! Raikou can only do that if using HP Water or Weather Ball in rain. Heliolisk can just use Surf and Grass Knot. Additionaly, Heliolisk can switch into a lot of Bulky Waters like Milotic and Alomomola without fearing Scald, something Raikou hates since passive damage screws it. Not to mention that it's really good against monoattackng Ghosts such as Cofagrigus. tl;dr: If want to go as a sweeper and/or bulky attacker, use Raikou. If you want a fast Electric wih amazing movepool and a grat LO attacker, use Heliolisk.

I just simply can't understand all Heliolisk spite. If you play him NOT AS A F***ING RAIKOU BUT AS ITSELF you'll get nice results. Also LOL raikou banned

If you're going to talk pure weather, then you're forgetting that Raikou is still great in the weather.. specs Thunder will hit like a truck, and no AV or CM aren't Raikou's only sets, surprise. Heliolisk does have a better movepool and a variety in ability, but Raikou is still the (much) better electric to use on normal teams.

But I'll admit, after actually thinking about it, Raikou has to use one of HP Grass or Ice to get past Gastrodon and Rhyperior or Gligar, respectively, while Helio can carry Grass Knot and Surf for both. That's a pro for Helio. And about Cofag, it's not always mono-attacking, js. OTR commonly has HP Fighting.

and the part about raikou being banned was just a joke to go with what chesnaught said, jesus chill the fuck out.

 

[Mymble]

While Heliolisk is very useful on rain teams with Dry Skin and all of that, so is Raikou. Raikou also gets STAB Thunder is the rain and Weather Ball through an event. So even then Heliolisk faces competition from Raikou but Heliolisk still works well on rain teams.

If you're going to talk pure weather, then you're forgetting that Raikou is still great in the weather.. specs Thunder will hit like a truck, and no AV or CM aren't Raikou's only sets, surprise. Heliolisk does have a better movepool and a variety in ability, but Raikou is still the (much) better electric to use on normal teams.

But I'll admit, after actually thinking about it, Raikou has to use one of HP Grass or Ice to get past Gastrodon and Rhyperior or Gligar, respectively, while Helio can carry Grass Knot and Surf for both. That's a pro for Helio. And about Cofag, it's not always mono-attacking, js. OTR commonly has HP Fighting.

and the part about raikou being banned was just a joke to go with what chesnaught said, jesus chill the fuck out.

Weather Ball forces you to run a Rash nature instead of Timid which is limits Raikou's speed to the point where Heliolisk is faster. On top of that all the things Weather Ball beats Heliolisk beats, Weather Ball is also useless outside of rain as it is a 50 base power Normal-type move. If you're going to use Weather Ball Raikou use Heliolisk, it's faster (Rash Raikou 329, Timid Heliolisk 348), less dependent on rain, and actually plays the role of special attacker better than Raikou for all the reason mentioned in the comments above. Raikou is a better sweeper with better Speed, Special Attack, and bulk and the obvious fact that it actually has a boosting move, however as a Special attacker Heliolisk is better because unlike Raikou it can beat both Gligar and Rhyperior on one set and isn't scared of switching in on the bulky Water-types it is supposed to beat. Specs Thunder doesn't change the fact that if it switches in on a Milotic's Scald and takes 40-47% in the rain and then gets burnt Raikou is going to have a hard time for the rest of the battle.

We're not saying Heliolisk is always better than Raikou, just that they fill different roles and that Heliolisk is a genuinely good Pokemon right now.

 

[Durant]

I have been using this core not too long ago and it seems to work really well:

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Encore
- U-turn
- Stun Spore / Taunt
- Memento

Omastar @ Mystic Water / Life Orb
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Shell Smash
- Surf / Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Earth Power
- Ice Beam

So the goal of this core is to try and setup a Shell Smash with Omastar and try to sweep from there. Whimsicott gives Omastar the turns to set up a Shell Smash with the many trolling moves it has. So typing wise Omastar resists all of Whimsicott's weaknesses aside from steel while Whimsicott in return resists all of Omastar's weaknesses. The game plan is to try to annoy the opponent into oblivion with Whimsicott and then proceeding to set up a Shell Smash with Omastar. On Whimsocott's set Encore is one the main tools of the set. Being able to Encore opposing pokemon into useless moves helps Omastar to safely get up a Shell Smash. U Turn is so safely bring in Omastar on either a useless, weak or resisted move. For the third move you can either choose Stun Spore or Taunt. Stun spore is useful for shutting down fast sweepers like Delphox while Taunt helps against more defensive Pokemon like Cresselia or that damn Cresselia. Memento is probably the most important part of this set because it just works so damn well. You sacrifice yourself in order to give your opponent -2 attack and special attack. Unless it is something like Shaymin the opponent will almost always switch out while Omastar can Shell Smash on that turn.

Omastar his set is pretty standard Shell Smash boosting murderer stuff. Shell Smash is the most important part of the set as I mentioned it like 20 times in this post and it is just so good. Surf is the main STAB of choice as it is extremely strong after a Shell Smash and STAB but you can run Hydro Pump if you want a riskier but more powerful STAB. For the third slot you can either use Hidden Power Grass for Milotic, Gastrodon and other bulky water types or Earth Power for Raikou, Heliolisk and Toxicroak. The last slot goes to Ice Beam because it is generally good coverage with Surf and it hits pokemon like Togetic and Gligar hard.

I have had quite alot of succes with this core and feel free to use it :)

 

[Expulso]

I have been using this core not too long ago and it seems to work really well:

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Encore
- U-turn
- Stun Spore / Taunt
- Memento

Omastar @ Mystic Water / Life Orb
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Shell Smash
- Surf / Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Earth Power
- Ice Beam

So the goal of this core is to try and setup a Shell Smash with Omastar and try to sweep from there. Whimsicott gives Omastar the turns to set up a Shell Smash with the many trolling moves it has. So typing wise Omastar resists all of Whimsicott's weaknesses aside from steel while Whimsicott in return resists all of Omastar's weaknesses. The game plan is to try to annoy the opponent into oblivion with Whimsicott and then proceeding to set up a Shell Smash with Omastar. On Whimsocott's set Encore is one the main tools of the set. Being able to Encore opposing pokemon into useless moves helps Omastar to safely get up a Shell Smash. U Turn is so safely bring in Omastar on either a useless, weak or resisted move. For the third move you can either choose Stun Spore or Taunt. Stun spore is useful for shutting down fast sweepers like Delphox while Taunt helps against more defensive Pokemon like Cresselia or that damn Cresselia. Memento is probably the most important part of this set because it just works so damn well. You sacrifice yourself in order to give your opponent -2 attack and special attack. Unless it is something like Shaymin the opponent will almost always switch out while Omastar can Shell Smash on that turn.

Omastar his set is pretty standard Shell Smash boosting murderer stuff. Shell Smash is the most important part of the set as I mentioned it like 20 times in this post and it is just so good. Surf is the main STAB of choice as it is extremely strong after a Shell Smash and STAB but you can run Hydro Pump if you want a riskier but more powerful STAB. For the third slot you can either use Hidden Power Grass for Milotic, Gastrodon and other bulky water types or Earth Power for Raikou, Heliolisk and Toxicroak. The last slot goes to Ice Beam because it is generally good coverage with Surf and it hits pokemon like Togetic and Gligar hard.

I have had quite alot of succes with this core and feel free to use it :)

There's one major problem with this core. Grass-types love switching into Whimsicott, as they are immune to Stun Spore and usually don't fear Moonblast. These grass types also check Omastar (yeah yeah ice beam), and are a huge problem for this core. However, this is still very good; I suggest pairing it with a Fire-type like Moltres, Delphox or Emboar. Thanks!

 

[Durant]

There's one major problem with this core. Grass-types love switching into Whimsicott, as they are immune to Stun Spore and usually don't fear Moonblast. These grass types also check Omastar (yeah yeah ice beam), and are a huge problem for this core. However, this is still very good; I suggest pairing it with a Fire-type like Moltres, Delphox or Emboar. Thanks!

yeah i forgot to mention Fire types pair up really well with this core as it creates a FWG core and works really well defeating threats that would otherwise give this core problems. Thanks for reminding :)

 

[Holy Dom]

And once again I come with another Pokemon you should try out.

Golbat @ Eviolite
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Toxic
- Defog
- Roost

Best. Wall. Ever. Golbat is amazing defensively. While 75/80/75 defenses may not seem good, it can utilize Eviolite to become one hell of a bulky bat. It's typing is also wonderful, having 3 4x resists in Grass, Bug and Fight, and although Bug and Grass aren't exactly common, that's still good. It also resists Fairy and is immune to ground. It is also immune to Toxic which is cool.
Moving to the moveset, it is one of the few 'mons in the tier to get Defog so it can remove hazards, while being immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes. SR Weakness is annoying but you have recovery in Roost anyway. Toxic is used for walls like Gastrodon and things like Cresselia. Brave Bird is there so it isn't Taunt bait and packs quite a punch actually, but you can use Super Fang as well.
Also Infiltrator is cool against Sub.

However like every mon, Golbat has downsides which I'll note here so you can get teammates to help with them.
First of all it's weak to Knock Off, like all Eviolite users. So getting something that can sponge Knock Offs is quite handy, like Cobalion or Gastrodon. It also has a weakness to Electric (Raikou), Psychic (Cresselia, Reuniclus, etc) and Ice, so getting something that can handle those is very useful. It also lacks the ability to do anything to Steels and lastly Golbat has quite some 4MSS, as it would also love to run Taunt, U-turn and Super Fang along with the moves above. It is also a little suspectible to Paralyze and Burns, so watch out for those.
So basically, use Gastrodon a Ground or Steel mon to cover Golbat's cons.

Calc center
252+ Atk Escavalier Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Golbat: 133-157 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Shaymin Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 40-48 (11.2 - 13.5%) -- possible 8HKO
252 SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 102-120 (28.8 - 33.8%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 170-204 (48 - 57.6%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Golbat: 169-199 (47.7 - 56.2%) -- 83.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 133-156 (37.5 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Reckless Hitmonlee Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Golbat: 146-172 (41.2 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I've ran Golbat recently to much success, but just a physically defensive variant since its typing sponges those types of hits better.

Haze and Whirlwind are also excellent support moves on it but it's hard to find a slot for either of them.

 

[Molk]

Heliolisk is like Florges in OU. It's completely overshadowed by a fellow Pokemon of the same type, which is Raikou. There is literally no reason to use Heliolisk over Raikou, even for the water immunity. Raikou's got better bulk, speed, and power, while Heliolisk has Dry Skin and.. Surf? to make it a bit different from Raikou, but not enough to justify using it over Raikou.

Until Raikou's banned, Helio shouldn't be used over Raikou.

Honestly i really dont understand the heliolisk bashing lol, i mean of course it obviousloy recieves competition from raikou, but comparing it to sylveon and florges in the OU metagame is going quite a ways too far. There are definitely some pretty significant reasons to use Heliolisk over Raikou. You mention that dry skin isn't enough to justify Heliolisk's usage, but i honestly disagree, and extra immunity and way of recovery is always a good thing! Especially when you just so happen to match up so well against non Gastrodon water-types with your electric-type STAB and all lol. On the topic of immunities Heliolisk has an immunity to Ghost-type moves too, which while less significant than dry skin imo can still come in handy against things like mismagius and cofagrigus at times.

As for actual moves, Heliolisk actually has the advantage over Raikou movepoolwise imo lol. Raikou has to rely on Hidden Power to hit Ground-types and such, often having to pick and choose its checks and counters, but because of Heliolisk's access to Surf and Grass Knot it doesn't really need to worry about this at all, running through all of Rhyperior, Gligar, and Gastrodon in one set, which is definitely more significant than you make it to be imo. As for usage in games, i agee with Don Honchkrorleone that Raikou and Heliolisk definitely play differently. Raikou is the better Tornadus check and Calm Mind user obv, but Heliolisk is pretty clearly the better all-out- life orb attacker imo because of the advantages i mentioned, most importantly the significantly better movepool.

TL;DR there are def good reasons to use heliolisk

 

[atomicllamas]

Skuntank and Drapion don't beat it, often Knock Off and Pursuit doesn't 2HKO and most Cresselias carry Moonblast often nowadays. Also please don't compare Cresselia and Reuniclus, they may be Calm Minders (although I think OTR Reu and support Cress are more standard than their CM variants), but Reuniclus simply doesn't have RAW bulk cress has and Cress doesn't have Reu's powerful 125 base SpA and recover, although Cress' bulk (and better POSSIBLE coverage between Moonblast/HP/Ice Beam/STAB) makes up for that. These are some of the great misconceptions of cresselia (the oens you accused) and I'm glad to clear them up:

• 252+ Atk Drapion Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 174-206 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ Atk Skuntank Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 146-174 (32.8 - 39.1%) -- 8.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• +3 4 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Drapion: 170-201 (49.4 - 58.4%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
  
• +3 4 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skuntank: 201-237 (49 - 57.8%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
• 252+ Atk Skuntank Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 200-236 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- 18.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ Atk Drapion Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 236-278 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 252+ Atk Drapion Knock Off (65 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 158-188 (37.2 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Okay, lmao, have you ever played a Drapion or Skuntank with Cresselia? These aren't the sets you should be running (definitely not on Drapion) and if you let Cresselia get to +3 you must have been sleeping. Considering that Drapion should pretty much /always/ be running taunt (yes, even on a SD set), Cresselia will never be at more than +1 (switch in as they CM and then outspeed and taunt), on Skuntank it is a little crunched for move slots (pun intended), two attack Skuntank is definitely a viable threat in RU (taunt + defog). There is legitimately no way Cresselia is beating either of these Pokemon without them being super worn down and having black sludge knocked off.

Current best Drapion set if anyone is curious.

Drapion @ Black Sludge
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 244 SDef / 16 Spd
Careful Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Taunt
- Knock Off
- Whirlwind

As for comparing Cresselia and Reuniclus, of course Cresselia has better bulk, more coverage options, and less SpA, and Cresselia is still a worse CM user because an immunity to status via Magic Guard, freeing a move slot to use Recover instead of Substitute. Of course you can use Moonlight Calm Mind Cresselia, but then you straight up lose to toxic, defeating the purpose of using Cresselia / Reuniclus, which is to be impossible for a worn down stall and bulky offense team to defeat. Like I realize that Cresselia and Reunclus are different Pokemon that both have pros and cons, but their calm mind sets are pretty comparable in terms of purpose (bulky af mon that is a win con against various teams), and in that regard Reuniclus is the much better win con. I was also addressing someone's concern about the ban status of Cresselia, and at least in my opinion, Calm Mind Cresselia is more likely to be broken than support Cresselia, (legitimately would rather use support Uxie on HO teams because Memento is more useful than Lunar Dance, and Uxie has other support options that Cresselia doesn't).

 

[Monte Cristo]

Okay, lmao, have you ever played a Drapion or Skuntank with Cresselia? These aren't the sets you should be running (definitely not on Drapion) and if you let Cresselia get to +3 you must have been sleeping. Considering that Drapion should pretty much /always/ be running taunt (yes, even on a SD set), Cresselia will never be at more than +1 (switch in as they CM and then outspeed and taunt), on Skuntank it is a little crunched for move slots (pun intended), two attack Skuntank is definitely a viable threat in RU (taunt + defog). There is legitimately no way Cresselia is beating either of these Pokemon without them being super worn down and having black sludge knocked off.

Current best Drapion set if anyone is curious.

Drapion @ Black Sludge
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 244 SDef / 16 Spd
Careful Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Taunt
- Knock Off
- Whirlwind

As for comparing Cresselia and Reuniclus, of course Cresselia has better bulk, more coverage options, and less SpA, and Cresselia is still a worse CM user because an immunity to status via Magic Guard, freeing a move slot to use Recover instead of Substitute. Of course you can use Moonlight Calm Mind Cresselia, but then you straight up lose to toxic, defeating the purpose of using Cresselia / Reuniclus, which is to be impossible for a worn down stall and bulky offense team to defeat. Like I realize that Cresselia and Reunclus are different Pokemon that both have pros and cons, but their calm mind sets are pretty comparable in terms of purpose (bulky af mon that is a win con against various teams), and in that regard Reuniclus is the much better win con. I was also addressing someone's concern about the ban status of Cresselia, and at least in my opinion, Calm Mind Cresselia is more likely to be broken than support Cresselia, (legitimately would rather use support Uxie on HO teams because Memento is more useful than Lunar Dance, and Uxie has other support options that Cresselia doesn't).

I'm talking about the "AwesomeCress" set I posted aka Resttalk CM cress, which imo is the best variant of CM cress in this status heavy metagame.

 

[atomicllamas]

I'm talking about the "AwesomeCress" set I posted aka Resttalk CM cress, which imo is the best variant of CM cress in this status heavy metagame.

That set still loses to Drapion and Skuntank, because Taunt. There is also the fact that "AwesomeCress" is either unable to beat any Dark-Type (running Psyshock), or is piss-weak and loses to opposing Calm Mind Pokemon (running Moonblast). At that point you should literally just be running Reuniclus because it is beating pretty much any Pokemon that Cresselia is beating, while still beating both opposing CM users and Dark types (Magic Guard + Recover > Rest Talk).