the moth, the bull, and the bulkass {1700+}

[Jin White]

At a glance:

​

Overview:

Built in an era when Genesects swarmed the earth, this team called on Bulky Volcarona to be its anti-meta torch. Virtually every Genesect on the planet bar Choice Band Explosion variants were stopped hard by bulky Volcarona, and so are most Mega Venusaurs, Aegislash, Deoxys-S, Scizors, Mawiles, Bisharps, Lati Twins, and Conkeldurrs today...

I worked with my profoundly awesome tutor, Fuzznip, to start countering Volcarona's counters. Pokémon like Talonflame, Heatran, and Tyranitar needed to be removed. Rocky Helmet Garchomp has been a longtime favorite Talonflame-killer of mine, so we went from there. The team got bulkier and bulkier as we built its core with pokémon like Goodra, Mandibuzz, M-Venusaur.

Terrakion decimates the Chanseys and Blisseys of the world. Terrakion cleans up weakened teams. Terrakion also forms an excellent partner for opening a Volcarona sweep, handling pokémon such as Tyranitar, Heatran, the aforementioned pink blobs, Mega Charizard X & Y, and virtually any special wall. And so Terrakion and Volcarona became the offensive core, the win conditions, while the rest of the team were a bunch of fatasses designed to take hits and wall threats for days.

Details:

Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spd
Bold Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Giga Drain
- Roost

Volcarona sets up late game once its counters are gone and proceeds to light up the opposition. It tanks SO MANY hits because of its great bulk, allowing it to first QD and then proceed to outspeed & Roost off the damage. Flame Body is a spectacular ability and it wins matchups. Pokémon like Azumarill using Aqua Jet get burned, while Volcarona Roosts, and Volcarona wins. U-Turning pokémon get burned. Extremespeeding CB Dnite gets burned, while Volcarona safely stalls for it with Roost. You get the picture.

Volcarona needs a whole lot of support, offensively to remove the pokémon it can't break as well as defensively to remove hazards & tank certain physical hits. Strong hazard removal is imperative if bulky Volcarona is to accomplish anything, especially as a useful early-game pivot. Giga Drain is a solid replacement over Bug Buzz because it takes less boosts to nail Rotom-W, and it hits Azumarill, Keldeo, etc while prolonging the moth's lifespan.

The speed EVs allow this moth to outrun Greninja after one boost.

Garchomp (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 Spd
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast

Rocky Helmet Garchomp wrecks Talonflame. In the worst case scenario, CB Brave Bird 2HKOs, and with the Brave Bird recoil, Rough Skin recoil, and Rocky Helmet recoil, Talonflame 2HKOs itself in the process. All other variants (including SD) get wrecked by a combination of Stealth Rock and Dragon Tail. This guy reliably sets up Rocks, and punishes physical attackers with 28% recoil just for making contact; more often than not, he's 3HKOd at best by Choice-locked physical attacks. He was once a great lure for Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and their 4x Fire-weak friends, but Fire Blast has since become pretty standard. Regardless, he's excellent for applying pressure to these two so Terrakion doesn't have to have to get his hands dirty too early.

I try to have a phazer on all my teams when possible; I will not condone the opposing Baton Pass Scolipede getting a free win for my negligence. That said, Garchomp's roles are limited, and most useful early- and mid-game: killing Talonflames, setting up rocks, and then being a bulky painful sandpaper wall before dying. I wonder if a SD Wallbreaker set wouldn't serve me better. He's also the first of several overlapping weaknesses in Fairy, Dragon, and Ice.

The EV spread lets him outrun Jolly Excadrill. I tried investing in max Def & the rest in HP, BUT I found the hard way that CB Talonflames get the 2HKO on that spread while surviving the recoil with some 2-6% HP.

Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Bold Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Toxic
- Foul Play

Mandibuzz is an indisputably robust wall. With Foul Play, it all but counters DD Dragonite, Mega Charizard X, Excadrill, ofc Aegislash, and any other SD/DD mons... as in, it doesn't just wall them, but OHKOs/2HKOs them and punishes them for even trying to set up and sweep. I run Toxic for opposing Mandibuzz and to catch the Rotoms, Gastros, other walls who want to come in for free on a Foul Play. Mandibuzz's other major role, of course, is to remove hazards to give Volcarona free play over the field, and the Dark Burd is crazy reliable in this job. It's surprisingly fast for a support pokémon and it can even tank special hits (e.g. Scarf Draco Meteors !) when it needs to.

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Knock Off
- Synthesis

Venusaur is pretty much the perfect counterpart to Mandibuzz, both in typing and defensive stats. It also hard walls so many threats to the rest of my team: Azumarill, Greninja, Gliscor, Keldeo, etc. It beats virtually any Heatran 1v1 with Earthquake. It can take one hit even from Mega Charizard Y, in the worst case. It's a strong, hard to kill pivot with solid offensive power: all three of its moves hit way hard. And of course, Synthesis means it's really, really not going down without a dedicated effort. It lures the Talonflames, who then Brave Bird into Rocky Helmet Garchomp.

Unfortunately for Mega Venusaur, it's at the dawn of the Mega Pinsir meta. Faster and more dangerously now than luring Talonflames, it's giving free switch-ins to Mega Pinsir. I have no safe switch for the angry bug, especially if Rocks are up. A Mega Pinsir on the opposing team means I need to play my Venusaur very, very carefully, which is all the more difficult when it's my only good answer to Greninja, Azumarill, and Toxic stall.

I used to run EQ for Heatran; Knock Off has much, much greater utility all match.

Latios @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 52 HP / 200 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Trick
- Thunderbolt

There came a time when I got really, really sick of Hyper Offense DeoSharp-Mega Pinsir teams. TrickScarf Latios is presently my favorite answer to Deoxys-S/D leads. Turn One: Latios used Trick! The opposing Deo-S locks itself into SR or Taunt and essentially loses any late-game utility. Latios can proceed to take the free hit, or switch for a Bisharp check. Scarf Latios also checks +2 Mega Pinsir even after Rocks, checks both Mega Charizards (still outspeeding Zard X after a DD ofc), and breaks Chansey and other walls with Trick, effectively neutering stall by ruining one of its key players off the bat.

Latios manages to accomplish a LOT, depending on the opposing team composition. It's best used as a Revenge Killer / strong check to many +1 speed threats. It's second best used as a disruption versus Stall / Chansey. I used to run Defog as an emergency release when Mandibuzz couldn't afford it, but T-bolt answers perfectly to a lot of threats the team faced otherwise: Azumarill, Greninja, Gyarados, and it's good neutral damage in general.

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]

As stated in the overview, Terrakion makes a terrific offensive partner to Volcarona. It single-handedly decimates so many of Volcarona's checks and counters, and is the team's best answer to opposing Blissey and Chansey. I used to run him Scarf as a revenge killer/late-game cleaner, but my tutor and I found that Scarf Terrakion was too easy for the opponent to take advantage of: most of all, choosing any move other than Stone Edge/Rock Slide meant another free opportunity for Mega Pinsir to come in and set up. I changed him to Life Orb, and his usefulness has improved tenfold. For one, he can still come in on faster threats (Weavile) and scare them out bluffing the Scarf; the incoming Gliscor gets 2HKOd by HP Ice. Terrakion is an excellent team player, and his brilliant speed + power lets him check things like Mega Zard Y and of course Mega Pinsir.

I can't stress enough how useful HP Ice has been; this guy WILL lure the opponent's Gliscors and Landos.

THE END


-x-

THREATS

so many omg

...togekiss wrecks my whole team, it's a problem...

Mega Pinsir is hands down the biggest threat, because I've got no real switch-ins and if Rocks are up I'm hard pressed to answer to it at all.

Togekiss is the other 'mon that makes me groan when I see it in preview. Same story: I can't switch fearing Dazzling Gleam or Air Slash (or Thunder Wave) and Terrakion is my only decent check with Rock Slide.

​

Importable:

copypasta

Volcarona (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spd
Bold Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Giga Drain
- Roost

Garchomp (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 Spd
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast

Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Bold Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Toxic
- Foul Play

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Knock Off
- Synthesis

Latios @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 52 HP / 200 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Trick
- Thunderbolt

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Hasty Nature
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]

 

[Miles Tails]

Hello Jin White, liked the idea of making a team with Volcarona! Looking at the team I realized that you did not make the team to make room for Volcarona and that was a big mistake, now it has a greater amount of and counters, Revenger Killers.

I Suggest that you test Rotom-W in place of Mega Venusaur.

Reason - Mega Venusaur is a great Pokémon, however, it suffers from many of the things also suffers, not being a very good partner for her. Have Rotom-W is a perfect partner for her, entering Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, Togekiss and managing to hold Tyranitar, Mega Tyranitar and burn!

Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Rest

Terrakion can win most of the problems that Volcarona has, however, your current set does not seem cool, first you do not need Swords Dance! I suggest you use the Terrakion to support Volcarona doing work in Mid Game, so I suggest one Terrakion 4 Attacks.

Reason - Terrakion 4 attacks can hit hard in most things that stop Volcarona( Chansey, Blissey, Goodra, Dragalge, Tentacruel, Heatran Charizard X and Y, Assault Vest Tyranitar, Dragonite), and with his big brute strength and great coverage can opes holes in teams.

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Hasty Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Your team needs another Pokémon to help open holes, besides Terrakion has numerous weakness, so I suggest you test Aegislash instead of Latios.

Reason - Aegislash will give a larger number of resistances to his team, with a good response against Azumarill even having this Knock Off, besides helping to open holes for Terrakion.

Mandibuzz was a great choice to be the defoger team and must remain there, however, I suggest you put Whirlwind it.

Reason - Despite it being a great running into Bisharp, Aegislash and she will end up losing to movesets Swords Dance, with you can solve this problem.

The team has some difficulty to deal against Thundurus-I and Charizard-Y, so I suggest that you test Hippowdon instead of Garchomp.

Reason - Hippowdon has an immunity to electric and resist very well Hidden Power Ice and Focus Blast, you only need to take care with Grass Knot, he can also turn against Charizard Y resisting Fire Blast/Flametrower and canceling the sun thus not allowing him to give Solar Beam face, furthermore has Rock Slide which can kill both.

Thats´s it, I have helped!

 

[Jin White]

Hey man, thanks for the rate. These are pretty good suggestions.

Rotom-W makes a lot of sense for all the top-tier threats it contends with, namely some big ones that threaten my team: Togekiss & M-Pinsir. I'm going to have to try it out and get back to you; I hope it's as sturdy as M-Venusaur's been so far.

Trying out LO Terrakion now. I'm going to play around with your suggestions and get back to you; thank you again !

 

[tcr]

Hey man, sorry for the late rate! I got really busy doing work and trying out different games and whatnot :( Anyway, I'm here now to try and help you, especially so since this is a nice and unique team, much better than the standard, cookie cutter ones out there. I thoroughly enjoy how it is reminiscent of BW era, except seemingly tweaked for 6th gen. To business now: you may have noticed a large Mega Pinsir weakness. You don't really have any safe switchins (as you obviously pointed out) and Garchomp is pretty niche to check it in a pinch, though return 2hkoes your entire team. Talonflame is also still hard to beat, because you again rely on Garchomp, making the offensive core of Pinsir+Talonflame really devastating to face. Lastly Charizard X seems really hard to beat as well, as it can set up on Volcarona very easily, and with smart playing (not megaing first turn for example) it can bypass your scarfed Latios, as IIRC it doesn't OHKO. Your only hope is Mandibuzz, who can't take a +1 Flare Blitz very well, especially if rocks are up.

Switching Latios for Fat Scarftom could solve your Pinsir and Talonflame problems. Volt Switch really gives you nice utility, especially in forcing out bulky waters that can take on Volcarona. It forms a nice fwg core with volcarona and Venusaur as well, while also having excellent utility, is a levitator so you still retain similar defensive synergy as Latios did, and can burn random things like Tyranitar. In short it should benefit your team more while also disrupting stall teams (though to be fair a simple defog would do well) if you choose to run Choice Scarf. If you don't and just decide, fuck it, I want a bulky tom, then you would use whatever spread is most common nowadays. If you choose scarf, I would run enough speed to outpace Deo-S, and be done with it, invest the rest in HP and Bulk. a moveset of Will-o-wisp/ Hydro Pump/ Trick/ Volt Switch should do fine.

Venusaur could use a slight move change. I would replace Giga Drain with Knock Off. The ability to get rid of items is so great, as because of Venusaur's defensive capabilities, you force a lot of switches. Things don't like losing their item. Honestly, a grass type STAB isn't even needed, as Quagsire and Gastrodon get like no usage at higher levels of play, and you force out those things anyway (be honest, who lets quagsire stay in on venusaur?). You also force out Rotom, and even if you don't, it doesn't have an item anymore, so Chestoresto sets can't heal reliably, and Pain Split sets lose their passive recovery. Which is quite obviously really nice. Lastly, Mandibuzz really doesnt need taunt, as nothing is ever likely to set up on it anyway, so I would replace that with Whirlwind. Whirlwind helps you check things that DO set up on you and are faster, so things like Bisharp become less of a problem (assuming terrak is gone), or really any set up mon. It also helps disrupt momentum. Say Scizor comes in on Terrakion, and you switch to Mandibuzz. As it U-turns out (It BPed first turn) you whirlwind the next pokemon. Its a lovely lovely thing to try, and Mandibuzz really isn't outspeeding anything anyway, meaning that more times than not, taunt is useless unless you can hit it on the switch in. It also really helps with the Charizard problem, as it creates one less thing for it to set up on, and switching twice on rocks really hurts. Hope I helped your team! Just VM me if you want help on creating a Fat Rotom set.

 

[Calm_Mind_Latias]

Rotom-W is a good idea for many things; I have no comment since it is so blase being the most used Pokemon. If you really do not want it to be worn down by Toxic, use ChestoResto. It seems to work for Mega Venusaur

I am too lazy to give you detailed suggestions, but the most easiest answer to most of the aforementioned threats is:

Gimme Vicodin! (Thundurus) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Superpower
- Thunder Wave

I chosen Thundurus for multiple reasons. One metagame relevant reason is the prevalence of Double flying type hyper-offensive teams, and this Pokemon resists their Flying stab while being able to hit them super-effectively with Thunderbolt. It has just enough speed to punish all Adamant Talonflame (or those content with outspeeding Jolly Mega Pinsir). Its speed also allows me to check Charizard Y, and Gengar, Latios, and Latias. Its STAB Thunderbolt will be appreciated when up against Mandibuzz.

However, I also used a Leftovers Thundurus-I (without Focus Blast), also without Rapid Spin or Defog support, but it gets walled by Excadrill, Heatran, and the blobs, forcing me to switch out, while also taking Stealth Rock damage. Life Orb and Superpower are the defining aspects of this set: with Life Orb, I can now use Superpower since it enables it to do enough damage to OHKO non-bulky variants of Excadrill, do much as Focus Blast to Heatran, and does around 50% to Chansey.

I am surprised that Superpower with Thundurus-I didn't get much usage given the December 2013 stats; 115 Attack and access to Superpower are a gift that allows it to be a mixed attacker. The lack of an accuracy issue is surely welcomed. Furthermore, Life Orb also gives me access to critical OHKOs with HP Ice: Standard Gliscor is always KOed, even without Stealth Rock; Landorus-I/T is OHKO, unless they use Assault Vest or invest in Special Defense; Mega Garchomp is KOed under Stealth Rock and has an 81.3% of a KO without Rocks.

The ability to reliably power through its checks seems to be well-worth the price of Life Orb recoil and lack of passive recovery, otherwise it would be rendered impotent and would either die from an attack or take damage from Stealth Rock again if it switches back-in.

Priority T-wave allows me to cripple any faster threat, or something that Thundurus cannot KO so another team member could clean up. Kyurem-B and Conkeldurr really appreciate this, especially Kyurem-B, whose major weakness is it low speed.

This Pokemon cannot do anything to Scarfed Ground types. Garchomp, Lando-T, the rare Scarf Excadrill with Rock Slide is especially problematic since it also threatens Kyurem-B with Dragon Claw, Stone Edge, and Rock Slide respectively, so Lando-T and Rotom-W remedy this.

It works fairly well against 4 out the 5 threats. However, you will need to use T-wave if you suspect Scarf on Latios (or cannot KO it with HP Ice) and if TTar has DDanced. I was going to you should replace it with Latios, but it is up to you if you really like Volcarona.

Perhaps, if you want to keep Mega Venusaur, you could chose to get rid of Sludge Bomb if Thunderbolt allows you to check Togekiss effectively. Grass and Poison are poor STAB coverage, although I never played with a Mega Venusaur. (For Gengar, Sludge Bomb may be acceptable.)

Regarding Latios:

252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 232-274 (85.2 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Not a particularly reliable check against Mega Pinsir, especially because you have two Defog users of your own (Thunderbolt does less than Draco), not to mention a Mega Pinsir user often has a Defogger/Spinner.

If you want to run Mega Venusaur, perhaps running enough speed against 44 Speed Rotom-W may be a good idea. It can be considered an investment in "bulk" since you avoid the Will-O-Wisp and can often KO it before it Wisps. Giga Drain for Rotom-W seems to be enough to justify its use, not to mention its healing.

I really wonder how good the synergy between Thundy and Mandy would be even though both share Stealth Rock weakness. Thundy can paralyze a Charizard Y and Dragonite while Mandibuzz can KO.

 

[alexwolf]

All the things you mentioned in the threatlist are covered by Choice Scarf Excadrill, which also gives you a way to 2HKO Unaware Clefable, a huge threat to your team.

Also, if you want a more useful item for Terrakion, try Leftovers, which makes good use of Terrakion'd decent bulk and ability to check Pokemon such as Heatran, Mega Charizard Y, and Kyurem-B, or Rindo Berry, which lets it check Mega Char Y better and beat any Mega Venusaur if you use SD as it switches in.

Finally, replace Earthquake with Roar on Mega Venusaur. Roar is great to prevent dangerous sweepers such as DD Mega Char X, SD Garchomp, and Mega Pinsir from setting up, and although you can check the first two with Mandibuzz, Mandibuzz is not hard at all to wear down due to its SR weakness. However, the main reason to use Roar is to phaze CM Clefable, which is a huge threat to your team. With Roar, Mega Venusaur walls Clefable and dealys her sweep, and if she manages to be the last mon standing, Scarf Excadrill can easily 2HKO with Iron Head. Your team doesn't really miss the ability of Mega Venusaur to 2HKO Heatran, as you have Garchomp, Excadrill, and Terrakion, all of which beat it one on one, and two of them can check it decently too.

Good luck, hope i helped.

EDIT: Choice Band Scizor > Choice Scarf Latios also helps your team against all the threats that trouble you.

 

[Jin White]

Ahh thanks for the rates & suggestions.

I have to say LO Terrakion with HP Ice has been performing spectacularly. Its top switch-ins are indeed Gliscor and Lando-T whenever the opponent has them, and I really don't miss any coverage or power with the Jolly LO CC / EQ / Rock Slide / HP Ice

@ TCR I can't afford to lose Giga Drain on M-Venusaur for a whole host of reasons, among which Manaphy is #1. On the other hand, as alexwolf mentioned, EQ is the least useful move (basically only for Heatran, and generally not OHKOing) and I think Knock Off will be a helpful move in that slot.

I'm quite liking this Scarf Excadrill idea. What would you recommend: can he afford to run Adamant? EQ / Iron Head / Rock Slide / Rapid Spin ?

On a separate note, this is my proudest accomplishment to date: making a stall team forfeit in 9 turns.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-94133932

 

[Jin White]

Okay. It's been a few months, and I hadn't been playing OU very much, but I started again a couple weeks ago and I'm proud to say I still love this team.

I've made a few important changes, and now I feel more confident still that the team can handle most archetypes. I've given Latios T-bolt, to address a lot of specific threats, and get off reliable neutral damage rather than opting for the second Defogger. Knock Off on Venusaur makes the opposing team that much easier to deal with. TrickScarf still wins games, especially versus stall.

I have two questions that I'm hoping you can help me with. First, I noticed that apparently mixed wall M-Venusaur is seeing use over the full SpDef set that I've got. Would it behoove me any to make its EVs more balanced ? I tend to win out versus most Ice Punches as it is, barring the (inevitable) freeze hax.

Second - how come my Volcarona is still dying to two SR switches ? I've got an odd HP, but one switch still leaves it at 50% and the next switch kills it. How do I fix this?

Another thing: Greninja with extrasensory is still a massive, massive threat. Hyper offense is the hardest style to face, but I'm not useless against it the way the team was in its first phases. If the same team carries M-Pinsir and Lando-I it's really hard to hold my footing.

 

[CyphuH]

Just played with this set and went 7-2, Ran into a Trick Room team and couldn't seem to outplay Pokemon with slow speeds.. Would Taunt on a pokemon fit into the set?

 

[Jin White]

Just played with this set and went 7-2, Ran into a Trick Room team and couldn't seem to outplay Pokemon with slow speeds.. Would Taunt on a pokemon fit into the set?

Hm... I think it's a matter of tanking between chomper, mandibuzz, and m-venu (even Volc where possible) to stall out TR / recover off damage. I used to run Taunt on Mandibuzz, and it's pretty great for stopping SR among other things.