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np: XY UU Stage 1 - Reload [Salamence: BL | Next: DROPS!!!]

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kokoloko said:
Despite my disagreement, Magnezone is going back to BL.

Check this thread in about 15 minutes for all the reasoning paragraphs.

The next test is going to be Crawdaunt.
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I knew I had this bookmarked for a reason.


I've been looking forward to this day since Crawdaunt was BL'd. Move over, Nidoking and Hydreigon, the real king of wallbreaking is back in town.

EDIT: All that being said, I'm totally content to wait until Crawdaunt is coded back into UU before I start laddering again.
 
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The only set that would break Crawdaunt would be the DD set. You can't argue the banded set is broken if you decided to keep Hyd in UU, since they have the same amount of relveant counters in the tier (and you run Hyd with knockoff support anyways).
 
Nysyr said:
The only set that would break Crawdaunt would be the DD set. You can't argue the banded set is broken if you decided to keep Hyd in UU, since they have the same amount of relveant counters in the tier (and you run Hyd with knockoff support anyways).
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It is somewhat difficult to say they are that similar when the other has priority and a powerful ability backing it up that it is arguably a much harder hitting wall breaker with the added incentive of being a clean up/revenge killer to common types with aqua jet. Sure it has a lower speed and all but I think Magnezone shows there is enough walls for it to outspeed or at least it has a priority to make up for part of its loss. I'd say Magnezone is a more apt comparison since they essentially are similar in roles in addition to both mons falling to the same weakness, a low base speed + weakness to common attacking types, but with the same strength of absolutely terrorizing stall/balance teams. Though priority makes a notable difference in that it gives Craw some leeway against more offensively oriented teams.
 
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Nysyr said:
The only set that would break Crawdaunt would be the DD set. You can't argue the banded set is broken if you decided to keep Hyd in UU, since they have the same amount of relveant counters in the tier (and you run Hyd with knockoff support anyways).
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I would not say that so confidently. The difference between bandaunt and hydreigon is that even IF you had something that could safely swap into knock off, it still loses it's item, and even resisted hits take a decent amount of damage from it. Hydreigon has very good SE coverage, but crawdaunt is more comparable to darmantian in that it only really needs his STABs to put the hurt on anything that comes in.

Honestly, crawdaunt is every bit as broken as magnezone imo. Granted, that still leaves folks who believe mag was not broken room to argue, and I never had much of a position on either (I've been far too busy with school and the BP debate to care).

*edit*

Also what Machi said.
 
Mangezone is nothing compared to Crawdaunt. Adaptability Knock Off coming off that base attack is just ridiculous, especially when paired with things to patch up its sub par speed and one of the best STABS in the game.
 
not to mention it has a massive boon in offense known as aqua jet considering its fucking adaptability boosted along with the fact that priority is barren af in uu
 
Whatever Knock off can't OHKO, Crabhammer and Superpower cover the rest. Only thing holding it back is speed and it has weak bulk especially in special defense.
 
Well then, what do you guys think are good options to counter/check Crawdaunt?

There is the obvious Chesnaught who is still viable, and Poliwrath as mentioned earlier.
Does anyone else see Toxicroak as an answer to this? Immune to its water STAB, resists Knock Off (although it does take rather significant damage on the first one) but then heals of and destroys it with a Drain Punch. Also resists Superpower for another nice plus.
I also remember that when Crawdaunt was around that Hydreigon could tank one of its STABs and then hit back and obliterate it with its Dragon STAB.
And then this thing is revenge killed easily by anything faster and can survive Aqua Jet.
Burn also destroys this thing, completely. I stalled out a CB Crawdaunt locked into Knock Off with a SpD Mew after it was burned. So stall still has ways of dealing with this thing too.

You have to treat all threats when they come in instead of straying away and saying its broken because you would need to change your team a bit. Try and brainstorm ways of how to deal with this thing please and see whether it is still broken (not that I am necessarily saying that any of you guys are doing that). Its just like Darmanitan and Victini's fire SPAM that we should have an answer too, likewise we should have an answer to a threat like Crawdaunt, which I personally don't find too hard. So I encourage you guys to test what stops it during this retest and highlight its flaws as well as its strengths. Because so far I have heard a lot of "it's broken" already.
 
RowDog said:
Well then, what do you guys think are good options to counter/check Crawdaunt?

There is the obvious Chesnaught who is still viable, and Poliwrath as mentioned earlier.
Does anyone else see Toxicroak as an answer to this? Immune to its water STAB, resists Knock Off (although it does take rather significant damage on the first one) but then heals of and destroys it with a Drain Punch. Also resists Superpower for another nice plus.
I also remember that when Crawdaunt was around that Hydreigon could tank one of its STABs and then hit back and obliterate it with its Dragon STAB.
And then this thing is revenge killed easily by anything faster and can survive Aqua Jet.
Burn also destroys this thing, completely. I stalled out a CB Crawdaunt locked into Knock Off with a SpD Mew after it was burned. So stall still has ways of dealing with this thing too.

You have to treat all threats when they come in instead of straying away and saying its broken because you would need to change your team a bit. Try and brainstorm ways of how to deal with this thing please and see whether it is still broken (not that I am necessarily saying that any of you guys are doing that). Its just like Darmanitan and Victini's fire SPAM that we should have an answer too, likewise we should have an answer to a threat like Crawdaunt, which I personally don't find too hard. So I encourage you guys to test what stops it during this retest and highlight its flaws as well as its strengths. Because so far I have heard a lot of "it's broken" already.
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Chesnaught and Poliwrath aren't as good of counters given that most Crawdaunt started running Aerial Ace (or IB) to deal with them. Same goes for Toxicroak to a lesser extent.

It's very similar to Magnezone as it's a very strong wallbreaker who has the potential to punish switch-ins severely, but the edge it has is priority and the utility of knock off. I can't see Crawdaunt staying in UU, based on the metagame he was in last time he was in the tier and the current metagame. We haven't exactly gained tons of new toys to deal with him with, and we actually lost of the lot of the things that could do so offensively.
 
RowDog said:
Well then, what do you guys think are good options to counter/check Crawdaunt?

There is the obvious Chesnaught who is still viable, and Poliwrath as mentioned earlier.
Does anyone else see Toxicroak as an answer to this? Immune to its water STAB, resists Knock Off (although it does take rather significant damage on the first one) but then heals of and destroys it with a Drain Punch. Also resists Superpower for another nice plus.
I also remember that when Crawdaunt was around that Hydreigon could tank one of its STABs and then hit back and obliterate it with its Dragon STAB.
And then this thing is revenge killed easily by anything faster and can survive Aqua Jet.
Burn also destroys this thing, completely. I stalled out a CB Crawdaunt locked into Knock Off with a SpD Mew after it was burned. So stall still has ways of dealing with this thing too.

You have to treat all threats when they come in instead of straying away and saying its broken because you would need to change your team a bit. Try and brainstorm ways of how to deal with this thing please and see whether it is still broken (not that I am necessarily saying that any of you guys are doing that). Its just like Darmanitan and Victini's fire SPAM that we should have an answer too, likewise we should have an answer to a threat like Crawdaunt, which I personally don't find too hard. So I encourage you guys to test what stops it during this retest and highlight its flaws as well as its strengths. Because so far I have heard a lot of "it's broken" already.
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Chesnaught does counter him beside the fact he loses his item limiting his build to Leech Seed/Synthesis for recovery afterwards but all moves Crawdaunt has don't do much and Chest can OHKO him.
Poliwrath can stop a water attack but if Crawdaunt is Dragon dance boosted Poliwrath will take a lot of damage from Superpower or lose his item.

Crawdaunt can kill most of the top viable pokemon and beats most of his counters with Dragon Dance boost or punish their existance with Knock off. The way to beat him is to always have a way to OHKO Crawdaunt so he doesn't have time to boost and stays slow.
 
You could try Nasty Plot/Swords Dance Toxicroak. Vacuum wave lets it bypass DD sets that rely on Superpower/Aerial Ace, but eh I don't know.

When will this go live on PS!?
 
Patrick1088 said:
You could try Nasty Plot/Swords Dance Toxicroak. Vacuum wave lets it bypass DD sets that rely on Superpower/Aerial Ace, but eh I don't know.

When will this go live on PS!?
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Well Magnezone was just announced to be banned, I'm sure the next time connection is lost they'll take the time, no later than Sunday.
 
Water / Dark coverage is resisted by:
- Water / Fighting (Poliwrath)
- Water / Dark (Crawdaunt, lol)
- Water / Fairy
- Grass / Fighting (Chesnaught, Virizion)
- Grass / Dark (Shiftry)
- Grass / Fairy (florges imo)
- Dragon / Fighting
- Dragon / Dark (Hydreigon)
- Dragon / Fairy

Due to Dry Skin, Toxicroak is also resistant.

Wow, not a very long list, is it?
 
Expulso said:
Water / Dark coverage is resisted by:
- Water / Fighting (Poliwrath)
- Water / Dark (Crawdaunt, lol)
- Water / Fairy
- Grass / Fighting (Chesnaught, Virizion)
- Grass / Dark (Shiftry)
- Grass / Fairy (florges imo)
- Dragon / Fighting
- Dragon / Dark (Hydreigon)
- Dragon / Fairy

Due to Dry Skin, Toxicroak is also resistant.

Wow, not a very long list, is it?
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How viable is Shiftry? I might just throw a thread together if its something...
 
Petrico94 said:
How viable is Shiftry? I might just throw a thread together if its something...
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It's fairly viable; while the loss of Nature Power EQ hurts it, it gains Defog this generation. It also gets access to many potent boosting moves like Swords Dance, Nasty Plot, and Growth, as well as Suckr Punch.

Pretty cool mon tbh
 
yeah Shiftry is so bad defensively, even max defense shiftry is potentially 2HKO'd from anything bandedcrawdaunt has to offer. (and any superpower set at all) aside from knock off (still taking nearly 50% when the item is smacked away.) and with no reliable recovery to speak of (I really can't see a viable set fitting restalk) it is really not a good option. It can be faster, for sure but when you drop that much defense, its obvious that crawdaunt can't outspeed and he'll switch and kill you on the next switch-in instead.
 
I purpose Phys Def Whimiscott as a shaky counter and solid check to Crawdaunt. Even though it still has issues in that Knock Off/Crabhammer/Aerial Ace/Ice Beam doing a fukton on the switch, it outspeeds and OHKO with Moonblast even with no speed investment. Can encore it into Aqua Jet/DD/SD and start Leech Seeding or setup your own sweeper. It also checks things like Mega Ampharous and Hydreigon by encoring them into Dragon moves and can provide team support like there is no tomorrow. Very underrated mon atm.

Phys Def Mega Blastoise and Mega Ampharous can serve as quite good counters too, but lacking reliable recovery outside of WishPassing and RestTalk
 
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252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 154-182 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Blastoise: 140-166 (38.6 - 45.8%) -- 16.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

ehhh not really.. CB Crawdaunt basically has no counters, only checks.
 
banning moves on a specific pokemon just opens up a huge can of worms, is very complicated and imo is a bad idea.
 
panamaxis said:
banning moves on a specific pokemon just opens up a huge can of worms, is very complicated and imo is a bad idea.
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That being said, there is a decent argument out there that knock off is in itself OP and should be suspected.

That being said, crunch crawdaunt still hits hard af, so I doubt banning knock off would make him that much less broken.
 
Helioisk and jynx can check non dd variants, but are maimed by knock off...

Also, mega aggron doesnt care too muh about crawdaunt due to its insane defenses and cant lose its item
 
Patrick1088 said:
Also, mega aggron doesnt care too muh about crawdaunt due to its insane defenses and cant lose its item
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actually only about 7% of them run impish max defense (sp.def is arguably better) so...

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Aggron: 162-192 (47 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

even if it is impish max defense, the most it can do to Crawdaunt is trade its life for thunder wave. Good use of a mega
 
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