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Ladder Balanced Hackmons
- Thread starter verbatim
- Start date
Like i said some of my first sets still learning the ropes.
Set name: Diversity Mk.2
Xerneas @ Life Orb
Ability: Unaware/Pixilate Subject to change on unaware.
EVs: Do i have to?
Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball/Shadow claw
- Recover/Sludge Wave/Gunk shot
- Quiver Dance/Dragon Dance not sure about DD
- Moonblast/Return
Chestnaught has told me about quiver dance. And now here is ultimately a better sets than the ones i posted above it even fuses the two sets. Shadow ball gets aeigslash and gengar like before. Recover gives you longevity. Sludge wave can still be used although i feel shadow ball will still do good damage to other fairies. Quiver dance to open up item and move slot. And moon blast because wynaut? Physical option is still there. Also I'm sorry i dont remember any good physical ghost moves.. so i just put that.
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Okay. There are some good ideas here, but I'm overall a little confused.
Diversity: Power Herb Geomancy is okay, but as Chesnaught said, you'd probably be better off with Quiver Dance. However, since you're using a special boosting move, it doesn't make sense to me why you would have an Adamant nature. Since you shouldn't be physically attacking, you probably shouldn't use Return. But then you're not making any use of Pixilate. For that reason, you should replace the Return/Moonblast slot with Boomburst, in my opinion. This means you'd probably be better off using special coverage. The Fire/Poison/Fairy coverage you have now leaves you walled by Flash Fire steels, which is fine for anti-Imposter backup plans, but also makes it difficult to sweep against prepared teams. I'd recommend going with something like Quiver Dance/Sludge Wave/Boomburst/Blue Flare if you want to stick to the same coverage (although Poison might be worth replacing, as it leaves you vulnerable to Imposters.)
Mega Gengar Counter and other A rank counters: I wouldn't exactly describe this as a counter, more of a check. Non-STAB Shadow Ball from Xerneas isn't going to do a whole lot, particularly unboosted. Also, if Mega Gengar is already at +3 after a Tail Glow, it will KO you anyway. My same comments apply as above; I'd go with something like Quiver Dance/Shadow Ball/Boomburst/Recover if you want the same coverage.
Diversity Mk. 2: I agree, this is ultimately a better set than the ones above. Same things apply as what I said about the other two, though; I'd go special here, and forgo Shadow Claw, Gunk Shot, and Return in favor of their special counterparts. Once again, using Moonblast doesn't take advantage of Pixilate, so use Boomburst. By the way, Dragon Dance is outclassed by Shift Gear. I'd go with Pixilate with Quiver Dance/Shadow Ball/Boomburst/Recover, same as I said above, if you want to stick to the same coverage.
tl;dr: Use Boomburst if you have Pixilate, don't go physical, know that you are walled by Flash Fire steels if you go Fire/Poison/Fairy, know that Poison helps Imposters out against you.
Its great to hear critique from a good player. I will take all this into account. Like i stated im fairly new to this and i COMPLETELY forgot about boomburst.I thank you for your critique and I just made some physical you know its helps get around special walls. Also is unaware sweeping not a good thing? I think it would help against anyone who has gotten special defense bulk and also help against imposter who switch in and gets my stat buffs right?
Unaware sweeping is fine. If you wanted to stick with Unaware on that last thing, just switch out Boomburst for Moonblast, like you had originally.
Glad you appreciated it.
Also i made this set. Its bulky and gets on people nerves.
Set name: Tank and Anti-imposter
Aggron-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: You know it
Relaxed Nature
- Recover
- Toxic
- Cotton Guard
- Play Rough/Iron Head not so sure about iron head
Ok so this set is annoying and hard to take down from a physical stand point. Recover to just dust off damage. Toxic to give them a timer to take me down. Cotton guard because YOU KNOW WHY. Play rough is a strong fairy move and i believe fairy has the fewest resistances so i chose it over iron tail, however i think Iron Head is still viable. Now here comes the mind blow. This aggron has 614 defense! now this means that physical attacks after cotton guard will do NOTHING. Now here is a problem.... if i'm correct unawares will just go straight through my defense. Also imposters are problem. However, im sure everyone has an imposter counter. In fact almost all my Pokemon in the team i use my xerneas sets and this set in have a Pokemon in the team who counters them.
EDIT: So I've noticed something. imposters only get 5PP in each attack. This means that when they come in to aggron and steal my buffs.... aggron resits play rough and with full defense they will run out of PP before they can beat me. Also i cant be affected by toxic so overall its great as an imposter counter.
Set name: Tank and Anti-imposter
Aggron-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: You know it
Relaxed Nature
- Recover
- Toxic
- Cotton Guard
- Play Rough/Iron Head not so sure about iron head
Ok so this set is annoying and hard to take down from a physical stand point. Recover to just dust off damage. Toxic to give them a timer to take me down. Cotton guard because YOU KNOW WHY. Play rough is a strong fairy move and i believe fairy has the fewest resistances so i chose it over iron tail, however i think Iron Head is still viable. Now here comes the mind blow. This aggron has 614 defense! now this means that physical attacks after cotton guard will do NOTHING. Now here is a problem.... if i'm correct unawares will just go straight through my defense. Also imposters are problem. However, im sure everyone has an imposter counter. In fact almost all my Pokemon in the team i use my xerneas sets and this set in have a Pokemon in the team who counters them.
EDIT: So I've noticed something. imposters only get 5PP in each attack. This means that when they come in to aggron and steal my buffs.... aggron resits play rough and with full defense they will run out of PP before they can beat me. Also i cant be affected by toxic so overall its great as an imposter counter.
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All of those sets are just begging to be copied by imposter blissey.
And they're begging to be copied by those as well. Have a counter to everything on your team and you should be good.
Actually it's not really an Imposter counter because you use PP while the Imposter can use 5 of each (20 total) and then switch out, then proceed to switch back in and do it all over again. If you had a trapping move like Thousand Waves it would be a different story. : )
What he said. Also, while Fur Coat Mega Aggron is an excellent physical wall, it's really one-dimensional; it dies easily to special moves.
If you want to prevent M-Aggron from getting Impostered, just put a Magnet Pull Special Attacker on your team.
Just some less specific thoughts since most of what I would say has been covered.
Fire Blast > Replace with Blue Flare. Same acc, same PP, more damage. Alternatively, Searing Shot for less power but a reasonable burn chance.
Return > Frustration. Most Imposters are max happiness. Imposter doesn't copy happiness. Therefore, most Imposters will have a craptacular move for damage when they copy Frustration.
Shadow Ball > Night Daze. Night Daze has a bit less BP and 5% less acc, but it hits harder and has a 40% chance of dropping accuracy. It also has similar coverage with Shadow Ball and the things that do resist it are covered by Fairy. Not to mention, no free Regigas switch-ins for the opponent. Dark/Fairy coverage is only resisted by Mawile and Klefki, the former of which is used only very rarely and the latter I've yet to even see.
Dragon Dance > Shift Gear. Why do +1 Attack +1 Speed when you can do +1 Attack +2 Speed?
Meanwhile, in unrelated news and going back to my mad scientist tendencies, all the talk of Regenvest and Furvest tempted me to try out a Regenvest Umbreon. Specifically with Foul Play/Nuzzle/Circle Throw/Volt Switch, though I'm sure there's other viable moves. For operating on a "test random junk" team that is horribly synergized, it performed pretty well. It can take a Boomburst from Pixel Xern if it's healthy and paralyze it in return, inflict non-negligible damage on physical attackers and frail special attackers, or even flat out KO them if they try to boost (Regigas used Swords Dance! Umbreon used Foul Play! Regigas fainted!), and shuffle stuff it can't threaten. It also scoffs at Low Kick, unlike Gyarados and Tyranitar (Low Kick is only BP 60 for Umbreon vs 120 for the others).
The biggest competition here for such a set would be Yveltal. Yveltal can utilize its higher attack stats to inflict damage with moves other than Foul Play, so it runs a more offensive Regenvest set better by default, and it also takes similar damage from Low Kick due to Fighting neutrality. On the other hand, Umbreon isn't weak to Fridge and Skill Link Kyu-B, Head Smash Aerodactyl, or Electric attacks and has enough bulk that Scizor's U-Turn is only a 3HKO despite being weak (obviously, it's even less damage to Yveltal), so it has its merit in more of a support Regenvest role using a moveset like the one above.
I do wonder if Umbreon might run Furvest with Wish support better than Regenvest so it can murder physical attackers with bulk + STAB Foul Play while harassing special attackers with Nuzzle or other support moves. Even on paper, it sounds trickier to utilize, but potentially effective. And it's lack of Kyu-B weakness means Yveltal doesn't fight for a Furvest as role as much as it does for Regenvest. I'll have to give this a spin when I play again.
Fire Blast > Replace with Blue Flare. Same acc, same PP, more damage. Alternatively, Searing Shot for less power but a reasonable burn chance.
Return > Frustration. Most Imposters are max happiness. Imposter doesn't copy happiness. Therefore, most Imposters will have a craptacular move for damage when they copy Frustration.
Shadow Ball > Night Daze. Night Daze has a bit less BP and 5% less acc, but it hits harder and has a 40% chance of dropping accuracy. It also has similar coverage with Shadow Ball and the things that do resist it are covered by Fairy. Not to mention, no free Regigas switch-ins for the opponent. Dark/Fairy coverage is only resisted by Mawile and Klefki, the former of which is used only very rarely and the latter I've yet to even see.
Dragon Dance > Shift Gear. Why do +1 Attack +1 Speed when you can do +1 Attack +2 Speed?
Meanwhile, in unrelated news and going back to my mad scientist tendencies, all the talk of Regenvest and Furvest tempted me to try out a Regenvest Umbreon. Specifically with Foul Play/Nuzzle/Circle Throw/Volt Switch, though I'm sure there's other viable moves. For operating on a "test random junk" team that is horribly synergized, it performed pretty well. It can take a Boomburst from Pixel Xern if it's healthy and paralyze it in return, inflict non-negligible damage on physical attackers and frail special attackers, or even flat out KO them if they try to boost (Regigas used Swords Dance! Umbreon used Foul Play! Regigas fainted!), and shuffle stuff it can't threaten. It also scoffs at Low Kick, unlike Gyarados and Tyranitar (Low Kick is only BP 60 for Umbreon vs 120 for the others).
The biggest competition here for such a set would be Yveltal. Yveltal can utilize its higher attack stats to inflict damage with moves other than Foul Play, so it runs a more offensive Regenvest set better by default, and it also takes similar damage from Low Kick due to Fighting neutrality. On the other hand, Umbreon isn't weak to Fridge and Skill Link Kyu-B, Head Smash Aerodactyl, or Electric attacks and has enough bulk that Scizor's U-Turn is only a 3HKO despite being weak (obviously, it's even less damage to Yveltal), so it has its merit in more of a support Regenvest role using a moveset like the one above.
I do wonder if Umbreon might run Furvest with Wish support better than Regenvest so it can murder physical attackers with bulk + STAB Foul Play while harassing special attackers with Nuzzle or other support moves. Even on paper, it sounds trickier to utilize, but potentially effective. And it's lack of Kyu-B weakness means Yveltal doesn't fight for a Furvest as role as much as it does for Regenvest. I'll have to give this a spin when I play again.
Yeah I tested out the Furvest Yveltal I mentioned earlier on a similar "test random junk" team. It held together pretty well but I can see where Umbreon performs better at absorbing stuff like Ice Kyube. Yveltal definitely has the offensive edge like you said plus some Speed. They both has STAB Foul Play, but I was running Knock Off on mine (with Oblivion Wing, U-turn, and Nuzzle.) Even with their crazy bulk, sets like these really miss reliable recovery so Regenvest is still probably more viable than Furvest. Also, does Metal Burst work with AV? That's still considered an attack, right ...?
252+ Atk Refrigerate Kyurem-B Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Yveltal: 186-220 (40.7 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
And then BAM! Metal Burst in retaliation.
I found a really fun set to science upon:
Hairstyle-Mega @ Rocky Helmet/Lum/lefties/???
Ability: Prankster
EVs: Maximun Fabulous
Modest Nature or defensive
- Electric Terrain
- Soak
- Nature Power
- Heal Order/Electrify/Filler
Electrict terrain: No sleepy.
Nature power turns to stab thunderbolt + electrict terrain boost.
Super soaker for obvious 1 + 1 = ...
If you have hazards up (Infact, I would full heartedly recommend them if using this) this thing is a true nuinsance and can add up a lot of damage or even clean up. first it sets up electrict terrain up and soaks the foe or outright dishes out damage if the foe doesnt resist, the thunderbolt that nature power turns into that gets both STAB and Electrict terrain boost hits like a truck. If the foe is soaked, the bolt is pretty much an OHKO to about everything.
Biggest problems for this are the fakeout Xerneas, the dubious lightning rod Gengar and some of the dragon types that love magic bounce.
Hairstyle-Mega @ Rocky Helmet/Lum/lefties/???
Ability: Prankster
EVs: Maximun Fabulous
Modest Nature or defensive
- Electric Terrain
- Soak
- Nature Power
- Heal Order/Electrify/Filler
Electrict terrain: No sleepy.
Nature power turns to stab thunderbolt + electrict terrain boost.
Super soaker for obvious 1 + 1 = ...
If you have hazards up (Infact, I would full heartedly recommend them if using this) this thing is a true nuinsance and can add up a lot of damage or even clean up. first it sets up electrict terrain up and soaks the foe or outright dishes out damage if the foe doesnt resist, the thunderbolt that nature power turns into that gets both STAB and Electrict terrain boost hits like a truck. If the foe is soaked, the bolt is pretty much an OHKO to about everything.
Biggest problems for this are the fakeout Xerneas, the dubious lightning rod Gengar and some of the dragon types that love magic bounce.
This is a cool set. Electric is a nice attacking type in BH, since resists are rare. You only have to worry about Ground types, and particularly with the boost from Electric Terrain, Nature Power will do a lot. My main concern is the set being pretty one-dimensional, and the setup sometimes taking a little too long.
Also:
don't tell Arhops
oh wait
So guys since you all have problem with Mega Gengar I've made a list of checks and counters for Mega Gengar.
Shedinja: Refresh or Recycle Lum Berry sets completely wall Mega Gengar as it has no room for Leech Seed.
Kyube: Loses VS. Kings Shield Sets
Rayquaza: Loses VS. Kings Shield Sets
Mewtwo-Mega-Y: Loses on most switch-ins.
Mewtwo-Mega-X: Loses on most switch-in.
Yvetal: Loses VS. Moonblast
Venusaur-Mega: Loses VS. Magic Coat sets.
Deoxys-N: Loses on most switch-ins.
Deoxys-S: Loses on most switch-ins.
Deoxys-A: Loses on most switch-ins.
Regigigas: Loses to Aura Sphere.
Slaking: Loses to Aura Sphere
Chandelure: Just dies, sorry Kit Kasai
Garchomp-Mega: Just dies, and loses instantly VS. Moonblast.
Piloswine: Seriously WTF, also it dies to anything. E4 Flint
Darmanitan-Z: Cant switch in, but can win if Mega Gengar has 0 boosts:
252 SpA Spooky Plate Mega Gengar Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Darmanitan-Z: 246-290 (59.4 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tyranitar-Mega: Doesnt like Moonblasts or Aura Spheres.
252 SpA Spooky Plate Mega Gengar Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Darmanitan-Z: 246-290 (59.4 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So guys since you all have problem with Mega Gengar I've made a list of checks and counters for Mega Gengar.
Shedinja: Refresh or Recycle Lum Berry sets completely wall Mega Gengar as it has no room for Leech Seed.
Kyube: Loses VS. Kings Shield Sets
Rayquaza: Loses VS. Kings Shield Sets
Mewtwo-Mega-Y: Loses on most switch-ins.
Mewtwo-Mega-X: Loses on most switch-in.
Yvetal: Loses VS. Moonblast
Venusaur-Mega: Loses VS. Magic Coat sets.
Deoxys-N: Loses on most switch-ins.
Deoxys-S: Loses on most switch-ins.
Deoxys-A: Loses on most switch-ins.
Regigigas: Loses to Aura Sphere.
Slaking: Loses to Aura Sphere
Chandelure: Just dies, sorry Kit Kasai
Garchomp-Mega: Just dies, and loses instantly VS. Moonblast.
Piloswine: Seriously WTF, also it dies to anything. E4 Flint
Darmanitan-Z: Cant switch in, but can win if Mega Gengar has 0 boosts:
252 SpA Spooky Plate Mega Gengar Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Darmanitan-Z: 246-290 (59.4 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tyranitar-Mega: Doesnt like Moonblasts or Aura Spheres.
I've actually been using Sucker Punch Yveltal recently, a lot of people have been using Moonblast, it's really annoying. .-.
I would add Yveltal as a counter tbh, it's basically the only consistent one. Shedinja loses against Mold Breaker variants, which are common.
Also i made this set. Its bulky and gets on people nerves.
Set name: Tank and Anti-imposter
Aggron-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: You know it
Relaxed Nature
- Recover
- Toxic
- Cotton Guard
- Play Rough/Iron Head not so sure about iron head
Ok so this set is annoying and hard to take down from a physical stand point. Recover to just dust off damage. Toxic to give them a timer to take me down. Cotton guard because YOU KNOW WHY. Play rough is a strong fairy move and i believe fairy has the fewest resistances so i chose it over iron tail, however i think Iron Head is still viable. Now here comes the mind blow. This aggron has 614 defense! now this means that physical attacks after cotton guard will do NOTHING. Now here is a problem.... if i'm correct unawares will just go straight through my defense. Also imposters are problem. However, im sure everyone has an imposter counter. In fact almost all my Pokemon in the team i use my xerneas sets and this set in have a Pokemon in the team who counters them.
EDIT: So I've noticed something. imposters only get 5PP in each attack. This means that when they come in to aggron and steal my buffs.... aggron resits play rough and with full defense they will run out of PP before they can beat me. Also i cant be affected by toxic so overall its great as an imposter counter.
I'm just going to go ahead and tell you this set is the embodiment of an imposter target.((and being able to win a pure stall war is no excuse for what happens if blissey gets past your little gimmick.
The steel typing makes standard toxic stall completely useless and even if you get the burn off whoop de do. fur coat plus goddam recover is so over the top powerful that the imposter is going to be completely Imposable to stop on the physical side of things and even special attackers are dropped to a laughingstock in the face of this thing.
252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y life orb Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD mega Aggron: 276-328 (38.6 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
((Not even counting the chance to miss the shots and not even adding in the extra leftovers recovery the imposter is going to add. it's also even more scary when you realize that not every team is running a thermo-nuke mega mewtwo with focus blast for their special attacker and that physical attacks are even more over the top hopeless vs imposter blissey.
252+ Atk Kyurem-B Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Aggron: 152-180 (21.2 - 25.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery((@_@))
.....this doesn't even need an explanation as to why it Is beyond broken. All the while the imposter is happily toxic stalling your ass and kicking your corpse with play rough.
I would like to make a few suggestions. I'm not sure if this is allowed, but I'll give it a shot. If not just ignore me and move on. First, I think we need a new item (similar to light clay) to make for room moves (trick room, wonder room, etc) last longer. Second, I think defensive moves (ALL of them) should be allowed with assault vest. If mega offense is viable why can't stall be a viable tactic? Finally, I think the nerf to steel types this gen should be changed. They still have counters, so I say just leave the resistances as is.
Arhops If you want to counter the majority of Mega Gengars, Prankster Trick with something other than a Spooky Plate (I recommend a Choice Band, Choice Scarf, or Lagging Tail). A Ghost type can do it or you can have a Ghost waiting in the wings to switch in after Gengar is crying about losing Judgement. Unless Gengar is using Shadow Ball, but Shadow Ball variants are much easier to handle than Judgement IMO.
lmitchell0012 Balanced Hackmons is basically just Ubers with any item, any move, and almost any ability allowed on any Pokemon. We can't add new items or change mechanics. In fact, if current BH mechanics are proven wrong in-game, we're forced to change to match whether we like it or not. (See Mold Breaker vs Unaware and Arceus forms' typing without plates last generation, among others I believe.)
Also, I'm sure Adrian would have a word or two about how "not viable" stall is.
lmitchell0012 Balanced Hackmons is basically just Ubers with any item, any move, and almost any ability allowed on any Pokemon. We can't add new items or change mechanics. In fact, if current BH mechanics are proven wrong in-game, we're forced to change to match whether we like it or not. (See Mold Breaker vs Unaware and Arceus forms' typing without plates last generation, among others I believe.)
Also, I'm sure Adrian would have a word or two about how "not viable" stall is.
Yeah that's getting into the pet mod arena and would require a submission and approval.