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You've managed to convince me about Infestation, but Extreme Speed is too OP IMHO. I think we need to keep a close eye on adding Priority moves, especially on something that already gets Sucker Punch.
Also my concern is that 127 speed is too drastic an increase and would mess too much with the speed tiers. I think a nice "cap" for boosts would be +30/35, as bigger than that puts too many mons in Uber territory.
127 Spe on Raticate is only a +30 boost. And in case you didn't notice, I did put restrictions on Extremespeed by making it illegal with elemental fangs and superpower (and Adamant only, à la Entei event).
Keep in mind my version of Raticate only has 111 Atk, which isn't exactly overwhelming, especially as far as Mega-evolutions go, and its ability isn't boosting ExtremeSpeed's power more. Yes, it gets Swords Dance, but between entry hazards, possible sand, and its lackluster defenses, its not exactly OP (since it needs to survive, and 55/70/80 bulk isn't exactly stellar).
You've managed to convince me about Infestation, but Extreme Speed is too OP IMHO. I think we need to keep a close eye on adding Priority moves, especially on something that already gets Sucker Punch.
Also my concern is that 127 speed is too drastic an increase and would mess too much with the speed tiers. I think a nice "cap" for boosts would be +30/35, as bigger than that puts too many mons in Uber territory.
But official Megas get up to 50 base points in some stats. If we cap at 35 (which is odd because only three megas don't add in increments of 10) then we're always spreading 100 points to what, 4-5 stats, on everything? Look at Mega Absol. It gains in only 3. Some Pokemon need a big boost here and there for variety.
But what I don't think is accurate is bumping one of the Pokemon's worst stats up to its best.
But official Megas get up to 50 base points in some stats. If we cap at 35 (which is odd because only three megas don't add in increments of 10) then we're always spreading 100 points to what, 4-5 stats, on everything? Look at Mega Absol. It gains in only 3. Some Pokemon need a big boost here and there for variety.
But what I don't think is accurate is bumping one of the Pokemon's worst stats up to its best.
You have a point there. Still, I think that people need to start adding +10 or +20 to non prime offenses (like Raticate's Special Attack) or be willing to put more stats in, say, already high defenses just to stop making everything so damn OP.
You have a point there. Still, I think that people need to start adding +10 or +20 to non prime offenses (like Raticate's Special Attack) or be willing to put more stats in, say, already high defenses just to stop making everything so damn OP.
I'd like to urge everyone to not go too crazy with their submissions. Yes, this is a Pet Mod, but that doesn't allow anyone to realise their very own wish list on these theoretical Mega mons. Just like the CAP forum (which, unless you already haven't, should Golurk extensively), creating a whole new mon comes with a lot of demands and responsibilities, and while we're technically only building further upon the foundation laid by GF, we still need to remember that these Mega propositions are whole new versions of existing mons.
Now, I haven't had the time to read most of the submissions, but given the reactions I've seen in this thread, we should once again emphasize that the core idea should remain intact in the new mega formes. This has already been brought by several users, in the form of these questions: Does the mega-less mon have a known niche that it could need further help with? Is it a wall, a tank, a sweeper, a glass cannon, and should we expand on that? Does this mon only have one viable strategy, or is there potential for it to serve two roles or more? I'm sure others could add upon this, but the bottom line is: don't just make the new Mega mons awesome. Make them a tailormade extension for that specific Pokemon, and not just a general build that anyone can throw together in a minute or two.
As for abilities, I agree with those before me that the really powerful ones (Huge Power, Fur Coat, Speed Boost, I could go on) should only be reserved for those mons that suffer from a very low BST. Mega Mawile had really lackluster base stats, and in order to make it even remotely threatening, they gave it Huge Power while throwing the rest of the stats into its bulk. So while we shouldn't disallow these abilities, they clearly need to be restricted only to the very bottom of the Pokemon hiearchy (I, for one, approve of the formerly mentioned Huge Power Farfetch'd).
So yeah, don't have any suggestions to the relevant mega mons we're currently discussing, just wanted to level the field a little. There's no rush, we don't need to be dead serious, but we can't let things get out of hand either. And if you're so determined to create a mega mon for your favorite critter, then go write it down in a document or blog somewhere until it's time for that species to shine. Relax.
Alright, so I've been helping with the cleanup and balancing of the already-proposed Megas, and to say the least, it's kind of a mess. Many of them are just too blatantly overpowered; just because the rules say, "100-point stat boost, new ability, new typing" doesn't mean that you should try your very best to make your submission as powerful as possible while still staying within the rules. Keep things reasonable; the stronger you make your Mega, the more it will have to be scrutinized, the more it will have to be altered, and the less it will be your idea. While it's great that everyone has so many ideas, take some time to consider this question: "How could I defeat this Pokemon in battle using a standard OU team?" If you can't come up with at least 5 different solutions, you may want to rethink your submission. With that said, here are a few guidelines as to what you should consider when proposing a new Mega.
1. Typing
- Many Megas change typing when they Mega Evolve, so feel free to change the type of the Pokemon that is Mega Evolving if you feel it should. However, it isn't necessary to change the Pokemon's type, and indeed in some cases it is in fact unnecessary. Type changes are a relatively lax area in terms of restrictions, so feel free to be creative. However, don't stick a new type onto a Pokemon just for the sake of it. Have some sort of justification, and include it in your proposal, whether it be flavor or competitiveness.
- Regarding Fairy- and Steel-typings, we'll be keeping a closer watch on these particular two typings, mainly because people seem to just stick them onto Megas willy-nilly due to their novelty/strength. Getting straight to the point, if your Pokemon's design or competitive purpose doesn't require (and I mean the type is actually integral to its flavor or usefulness) the type, it doesn't need it. This also means you shouldn't retroactively contrive an argument for, say, the Fairy-type because you really want a Fairy-type Whiscash. Saying that Mega Whiscash transforms its whiskers into pixie wings isn't going to cut it for justification; we can see that the design choice is only there to justify the typing, and it will very likely be changed.
TIL: New types are OK, but don't feel forced to use them. Fairy- and Steel-types should only be added if absolutely necessary.
2. Abilities
-Nothing broken, please. I mean it. As a rule of thumb, abilities that are generally to considered to make or break a Pokemon should be treated with extreme caution and restraint. By this I mean things such as, but not limited to: Prankster, Pixilate and clones, Huge and Pure Power, Fur Coat, Speed Boost, Adaptability, Magic Guard and Bounce, Unaware, Simple, Protean, Drought, Drizzle, Sand Warning, and Snow Warning. Abilities like these define how a Pokemon is played, and should not be treated lightly. Take Drizzle, for example. 4 Pokemon were submitted with this as their ability, 3 of which we ended up changing because they were too overpowered. The same went for others of these abilities. Though we haven't officially placed a ban on certain abilities because we want to give people as much creative freedom as possible, please stay reasonable, or we may be forced to restrict this.
- Regarding new abilities, here is a list of the current submissions:
Gravity (placeholder name): Creates Gravity effect on switch-in | Zygarde
Trick Room (needs name): Creates Trick Room on switch-in | Reuniclus
Rock Eater: Rock immunity (including SR) | Sableye
Swordsman: Boosts Blade, Cut, Slash, and Sword moves by 1.5x | Samurott
Unadaptable: Non-STAB moves have 66% power | Archeops, Regigigas (there are 2 in the google doc, other has stall)
Vampiric Blade: Shell Bell effect on contact moves | Aegislash
Spiky Armor: Rough Skin Clone | Chesnaught
Igneate: Turns Fire-type moves into Rock-type moves and gives 30% boost | Sandslash
Hydroelectrical Armor: Volt Absorb + Water Absorb (may be changed to Water+Electric Resist) | Lanturn
Pixie Dust: 30% chance to confuse opponent it makes contact | Milotic
Brute: All attacking moves become physical | Mamoswine
Ice Age: All non-super-effective moves against this Pokemon become Ice-type | Aurorus
Soothing Pulse/Pollen (OP appears to use them interchangeably): Auto-Aromatherapy on switch-in | Meganium
Etheriate: Ghost-type Pixilate | Mismagius (not in Google Doc but approved), Girafarig
Trickster: Stat-lowering moves have their effects doubled when used by the user | Whimsicott
Imprecate: 30% to induce Curse effect on opponents who make physical contact | Ninetales
Musician: 30% boost on sound-based moves | Chatot
As you can see, many of these abilities only have a single user. However, they also have some interesting, unique effects that may fit a Pokemon better than any currently existing abilities. For example, Swordsman and Brute both are rather broad abilities that have interesting effects, and are worth expanding upon. (A special version of Brute might also find some use *cough*Sceptile*cough*). Most (but not all of them yet) of these abilities have been deemed acceptable for their current owners, but just like any other ability, may be broken on others. It is up to you to decide whether or not an ability is broken, unofficial or canon, on your proposal.
-If you are creating your own ability, please take caution. No one wants an ability that reduces damage against ALL non-contact moves (if you want to do that, just invest more in Special Defense, really). In particular, Pixilate clones will be examined very closely for brokeness; even if you come up with a great idea for an ability, don't implement it at the cost of your Mega's balance, or else it may not even be considered.
-This should really go without saying in correlation with the last two, but please don't give Pokemon abilities because you think the ability will make them super-powerful; we're aiming for balanced, well designed Pokemon, not "who can design the strongest Mega". This means please stop submitting things like Fire-immune Scizor and Drought Heatran (not real submissions, but depressingly close).
TIL: Does your Pokemon absolutely need a new ability? If no, use a pre-existing one that meshes well with how you intend the Mega to be played, and please aim for balance rather than strength. If yes, check the list of pre-existing new abilities. If none of them fit, carefully design a new ability that, again, creates a balanced Pokemon instead of a ridiculously strong one.
3. Stats
- You get 100 points to work with, and can also remove points off of Speed to "increase" your working range. I'm going to set a "soft" limit of this speed drop to 30, the same as Mega-Abomasnow--soft in that you can break it, but only if you have a really good reason of doing so, and I mean really good. Now, you may have all these points to work with, but that doesn't mean you should shove all 130 points into Attack. It doesn't even mean you should put 65 in Attack and 65 in Speed. While I won't set limits on how much you can allocate to a single stat, please keep in mind that virtually all pre-existing Megas utilize what we've coined "throwaway points." Essentially, some Megas "throw away" portion(s) of their allocated 100 points into an unused or little-used stat in order to keep it from being overpowered. For example, Mega-Kangaskan tosses 20 points into its Special Attack, which it virtually never uses (and even then, it's still powerful--but can you imagine it with another 20 attack points? That's what some of the submissions we've been looking at resemble). In general, the more viable a Pokemon already is--you can use current tierings as a basis--the less it needs all 100 of its points, and the more "throwaway points" it should allocate (note that it still is important to distinguish a Mega from its base form holding an item in some way to keep it viable, so don't allocate too many throwaway points). Use your best judgement to determine how many points should be put in Attack for a specially defensive Pokemon, or how many into Defense for a special attacker.
TIL: Just because you have 100 extra stat points to work with doesn't mean you should put them all in one or two stats. Additionally, Speed drops are set to a general limit of 30 unless you have a really good reason. Try putting some points into useless stats if you fear your Mega may be verging on overpowered.
If you keep these things in mind when proposing a new Mega, you'll save you, other users, and us "cleaners" a lot of time. I hope that you guys continue to have as much fun working on this project as I do, and encourage you to submit your best proposal for Mega Raticate, Clefable, Nidoking, and Wigglytuff.
If anyone reads this I wanna see a drawing of a Fairy-type Whiscash with pixie wings for whiskers.
I would also recommend to avoid giving powerful new moves such as Extremespeed, Recover and Dragon dance unless there is a very good reason for that.
For example Mega Swampert getting Swords Dance, Dragon Dance and Recover is a clear red flag in my book and needs to be toned down.
Blastoises gained Aura Sphere and Dark Pulse in gen 6 because it needed something to abuse with its mega evolution's ability, Ampharos gained Dragon Pulse (but no Draco Meteor) for STAB but then again Gyarados didn't get any new form of Dark-type STAB.
If possible, try not to give the best move available if a weaker alternative that fits better flavor-wise exists (Pain Split over Recover, Calm Mind over Quiver Dance and so on).
Design Description: Nidoking's scale grow and develop an armour around its body, made of rock (Think Rhyperior). The armour contracts when its is defending and stand on end when it is attacking. Its color also become deep brown instead of pink.
Poison/Ground -----> Poison/Rock
Poison Point/Rivalry/Sheer Force -----> Battle Hide (+1 to Defense and Special Defense when using Non-Attacking Move; +1 to Attack and Special Attack when using Attacking Moves)
Nidoking was many things, but Set Up Sweeper is not one of them. Although it had a great ability and mixed attacking prowess that could easily threaten out OU's top threats, the fact that it could not set up limited it to almost Scarfed and often Life Orb sets. Well, no more. Nidoking's Dex entries go on about how its body and tail is hard as rock, which gives no justification to it Ground sub typing, hence the Rock typing. It loses speed to compliment the gaining of a hard body armour. Rock Polish is a good, but not OP move. Rock Wrecker is for flavour. It's ability, however, elevates it to OU as a fearsome mixed attacker.
Mega Nidoking
Typing: Poison / Ground >> Poison / Ground
Abilities: Poison Point / Rivalry / Sheer Force >> Tough Claws
BST: 81/102/77/85/75/85 >> 81/132/117/95/105/75
New Moves: Drain Punch
Now, one may wonder why I didn't stick with Sheer Force, but I believe my reason is simple enough: regular Nidoking will simply be able to dish out more damage as it can hold a Life Orb with no drawback. So with that in mind, I felt that making its mega evo a sweeper wouldn't cut it, and instead pursue another role that Nidoking fulfills: wallbreaker. Tough Claws makes for an impeccable boosting ability on the physical side, while at the same time not going over the top as none of Nidoking's best STAB moves that make contact doesn't pass 100 base power, as well as only having a 'moderate' 132 base attack (by Mega standards). While other wallbreaker may perform better on the physical end, they could dream of having Nido's special movepool along with its respectable special attack stat, making hardwalling this beast a true challenge for any opponent. Mega Nido is slower and bulkier than its regular form, which is why I found it fitting to equip it with Drain Punch, as I find it to fit well with its Poison typing, and that regular Nidoking wouldn't get much use of it either as it doesn't get boosted from Sheer Force.
Its ability coupled with its large special movepool might push it over the top though, so I may change its ability to Mold Breaker or even Intimidate if others find its power to be too great.
Mega Clefable
Typing: Fairy ----> Fairy
Abilities: Cute Charm/Magic Guard/Unaware ----> Competitive
BST: 95/70/73/95/90/60 ----> 95/80/63/140/100/95
New Moves: Energy Ball, Earth Power
Since normal Clefable is mostly used as a tank/wall, I think Mega Clefable should take up the role of a special sweeper. Competitive mainly because it's about the best ability that fits the flavor, Energy Ball for flavor (I imagine Mega Clefable as some sort of sage), and Earth Power for Coverage against Heatran and Poison-types that can eat a Flamethrower/Fire Blast.
EDIT: May as well do one for Wigglytuff.
Mega Wigglytuff
Typing: Normal/Fairy ----> Normal/Fairy
Abilities: Cute Charm/Competitive/Frisk ----> Fine Fur (Basically a clone of Gooey)
BST: 140/70/45/85/50/45 ----> 140/70/100/95/100/30
New Moves: Moonlight
Honestly, Wigglytuff's defenses are just so pathetic that it's Mega really needed that defense buff. Fine Fur allows MegaWigg to cripple fast physical attackers, and Moonlight because come on, it need some recovery other than Wish ._.
EDIT #2: Oh, max 50 boost limit. Well, just 5 more in Def for MegaWigg should be fineeeee...
Mega Nidoking
Typing: Poison / Ground -> Poison / Ground
Abilities: Poison Point / Rivalry / Sheer Force -> Sheer Force
BST: 81/102/77/85/75/85 -> 81/102/107/115/107/103
New Moves: Aura Sphere, Muddy Water
Unlike others who have taken a more offensive approach, I decided to give Nidoking some more bulk and speed, boosting SpA by 30, Def by 30, SpD by 42 and Speed by 18 - the concept with the non-multiples of 10 is to give Jolly Mega-Nidoking enough speed to outspeed Jolly Garchomp, thus allowing it to safely deal with one of it's counters, while still leaving it open to Mega-Pinsir and above to check.
This Mega-Nidoking hits like a truck with 105 Sheer Force boosted attacks(although the loss of LO keeps it balanced) and has reasonably high bulk at 81/97/107 bulk, allowing it to check a lot of common threats. Unlike normal Nidoking(who is a wallbreaker), Mega-Nidoking positions itself well on bulky offense teams - some calcs below show it's ability:
252 SpA Sheer Force Nidoking Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 340-402 (86.7 - 102.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Nidoking: 249-294 (81.9 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As this shows, even with no investment Nidoking can easily tank at least one very strong hit and ko back, allowing him to do well on Bulky Offense
I gave Nidoking Aura Sphere in order to give users not wishing to run Focus Miss for the fear of hax another decent option, although it doesn't hit very hard without an item. I also gave him Muddy Water as another option to use alongside his usual coverage, as Muddy Water(who has usually been away from the limelight courtesy surf) now gets a chance to shine thanks to sheer force.
Mega Clefable
Typing: Fairy ----> Fairy
Abilities: Cute Charm/Magic Guard/Unaware ----> Competitive
BST: 95/70/73/95/90/60 ----> 95/80/63/140/100/95
New Moves: Energy Ball, Earth Power
Since normal Clefable is mostly used as a tank/wall, I think Mega Clefable should take up the role of a special sweeper. Competitive mainly because it's about the best ability that fits the flavor, Energy Ball for flavor (I imagine Mega Clefable as some sort of sage), and Earth Power for Coverage against Heatran and Poison-types that can eat a Flamethrower/Fire Blast.
I guess I'm not the first to do this. It supports with Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, and Magic Coat. It can be built as a cleric with Heal Bell and Wish. I gave it Calm Mind because I think it fits. After all, Blissey gets it. But Wigglytuff can actually use it with its great Defense and usable Special Attack.
I guess I'm not the first to do this. It supports with Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, and Magic Coat. It can be built as a cleric with Heal Bell and Wish. I gave it Calm Mind because I think it fits. After all, Blissey gets it. But Wigglytuff can actually use it with its great Defense and usable Special Attack.
I guess I'm not the first to do this. It supports with Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, and Magic Coat. It can be built as a cleric with Heal Bell and Wish. I gave it Calm Mind because I think it fits. After all, Blissey gets it. But Wigglytuff can actually use it with its great Defense and usable Special Attack.
Yeah I think people in general needs the rules refreshed:
For each Mega:
- BST increases by 100
- no more than 50 points may be added to a single stat
- cannot increase HP
- can only reduce Speed, and only as much as 30
- new type optional, only one type can be changed. If it's a single type Mon, must add type
- new moves optional, up to 3
All this to make sure that Megas are balanced. And try to stay away from really good abilities like Speed Boost, Magic Guard, etc.
Mega Zam is a mistake because he got +10 SpD from Gen V to Gen VI. But they forgot to account for that. Every other Mega gets 100, do you want to purposefully leave out stats?
1. Each Mega Evolution gets 100 extra base stat points to use no more and no less even Mega Farfetch'd only gets 100 base stat points to work with.
2. You can only take points out of speed upon Mega Evolution as there is no precedent for any Mega to lose points in anything other than speed. You may take some points out of defense but very sparingly.
3. The Pokemon's Base HP must stay the same upon Mega Evolution as there is no precedent for a Mega Form with more HP than its base form.
4. Mega Evolved Pokemon can only gain/lose/change one type upon Mega Evolving as again there is no precedent for complete typing changes upon Mega Evolution.
5. Custom Abilities are allowed as some Mega Evolutions do have new, exclusive abilities such as Aerilate upon Mega Evolution.
6. Pokemon may get a maximum of 3 new moves for their new Mega Evolution but if this Pokemon is already OU viable then exercise caution as the base form also gets these moves.
7. In regards to already OU viable Mega Evolutions try not to overshadow the base form of the Pokemon (an example of this would be Mega Scizor overshadowing Normal Scizor) try to give this Mega Form a different role from its already viable normal form.
8. Try not to completely ignore flavor in your suggestion and please try to make your Mega Evolution balanced in the OU Metagame, I don't want to see Huge Power Haxorus with 157 speed and 197 attack.
The mega forms will most likely use the same sprite as their normal forms so you don't need to have a pokemon design for your mega evolution submission.
