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Hello everyone. Although this if my first time posting in the Smogon forums, I have had experience playing early BW OU, and then became quite invested in Dream World OU. However, when the B2W2 metagame appeared, I stopped playing competitively for the most part, because of the death of Dream World OU and the banning of two of my Pokemon: Excadrill and Shadow Tag Chandelure (I know he wasn't technically banned; he was just never released). The sixth generation brought in the weather nerf, rendering Excadrill's Sand Rush no longer OP, and now, I have been using a team that plays quite similarly to the one I've used back in Dream World OU. I have played a few games with this team, the majority of them becoming victories. Regardless, I have faced several problems that my team has some trouble dealing with, and would like some feedback as to what I can do to optimize this team.

TEAM COMPOSITION
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As you see from the above list, my team is a fairly balanced sand team. Details of each pokemon's role are listed below.

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Rotom-Wash @
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Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd
Bold Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Prior to X/Y, I have never really used Rotom-W, as it just didn't exactly have a place in my team. Regardless, my old DW OU sand team was deathly afraid of water, despite its relative success, so I decided I needed a bulky water resist in this generation. Seeing that Rotom-W was the most used Pokemon early in the generation, I had to give him a try. Ever since I've started using it, it's been working wonders. It checks so many offensive threats, like Pinsir, Talonflame, Azumarill, Mawile, and physical versions of Aegislash. Of course, because of the utility of Volt Switch, I tend to lead with Rotom-W for scouting purposes. Unfortunately, due to the sheer number of Pokemon Rotom-W checks for my team, I am often hard-pressed to switch it in constantly to take hits; this is further hampered by its lack of reliable recovery.

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Hippowdon (M) @
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Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang

As the title of my team implies, of course I need at least one sand inducer. Hippowdon is an amazing physical wall that can take neutral hits better than Rotom-W can, not to mention he has access to reliable recovery. Of course, with Whirlwind, he phazes most set-up sweepers that fail to OHKO him. It may be odd that I don't have Stealth Rock on my Hippowdon, and have the somewhat-gimmicky Ice Fang. Since I switch Hippowdon into very-weak-to-ice set-up sweepers like Dragonite and Landorus-T, Ice Fang can at least do severe damage to them so I do not have to worry about being swept by the said threats later in the match.

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Tyranitar (M) @
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Assault Vest
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
- Payback
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Ever since I started competitive battling, I have always used Tyranitar, and his roles have changed over time; I started off with TyraniBoah early BW, and then began using Choice Band Tyranitar in DW OU. In DW OU, I relied on Blissey to take almost all of the opponent's special hits; unfortunately, she often gave the opponent free turns, due to her inability to immediately get rid of whoever she was up against. Aware of Tyranitar's fairly high special defense in the sand, I had to try out the assault vest; his ability to take special hits wearing the vest exceeded my original expectations. I can switch Tyranitar directly into any special attack, provided it is not Focus Blast or STAB Aura Sphere/Hidden Power Fighting (Greninja, lol); Scald can also be an issue, due to its burn chance. Against special attackers, Tyranitar can easily take them down long before they can do the same to him. Due to the lack of attack investment, Tyranitar doesn't exactly "pursuit trap," but he can at least damage escaping Pokemon a reasonable amount, so they can be picked off more easily after they switch back in.

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Charizard (M) @
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Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost

The ever-present defensive steel-types couldn't care less about the Pokemon I have listed above. This is, of course, where Charizard Y comes in. Aside from steel-types, however, Charizard Y just destroys most walls in general, paving the way for the rest of my team. After the opponent's faster threats have been whittled down by my walls, Charizard can even pull off sweeps, due to his sheer power and decent speed. I typically use Charizard Y mid-to-late game, which is generally when his checks have been eliminated, allowing him to wallbreak almost unhindered.

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Espeon (M) @
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Light Clay
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Psychic
- Baton Pass

Of all of my pokemon, Espeon is probably the least useful overall. Regardless, he has been a fairly effective niche Pokemon for me. As Hippowdon lacks Stealth Rock, because of Ice Fang or Whirlwind, I rely on Espeon to bounce back my opponent's hazards. Espeon is also very useful in reflecting predicted status; Toxic has been one of the banes of my team, as it cripples Rotom-W, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon. Dual Screens is useful in reducing the pressure on my walls (Rotom-W, Hippowdon, and Tyranitar), and can reduce Charizard's and Excadrill's chances of being revenge-KOd. Oddly enough, Espeon has had his history of scoring last-resort revenge KOs on threats that are weak to Psychic, such as Mega-Venusaur and Conkeldurr. Despite Espeon's utility, he does have difficulty doing his job, due to his poor bulk. Because of this, in place of Espeon, I have heavily considered using Sylveon, who has significantly more bulk, more power, far better typing, and the ability to pass wishes to Tyranitar, whose inability to recover does hinder his walling capabilities somewhat. Sylveon also packs Heal Bell, which would solve the status problem. Using Sylveon, however, would force me to run Stealth Rock on Hippowdon, making him lose either (from my experience) a good coverage move or the ability to phaze. Losing Espeon would also make my team more vulnerable to Mega-Venusaur.

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Excadrill (M) @
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Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head

Back in BW, we all know the Excadrill was just far too good in the sand. With two sand-inducers on my team, maintaining weather has not been a large issue, especially when a good number of my opponents do not make use of weather at all. Although I mostly save Excadrill for last as a very-lategame cleaner, I have had a few cases of needing Rapid Spin. Oftentimes, an opponent can predict an Espeon switch and nail the Eeveelution with a reasonably powerful attack. At the same time, the opponent could "play dumb," and go about setting up his entry hazards at a time I don't want to risk sacrificing Espeon. In either scenario, I am in danger of getting hazards - especially Stealth Rock (Charizard must live!) - on my side of the field, and therefore, Rapid Spin is mandatory. Excadrill has 204 Spd EVs, giving him just enough speed to outpace Scarfed Gengar (I know they're not common, but some asshole decided it was a good idea, outsped and KOd Excadrill, so I will no longer be taking any chances), and the rest go into HP to slightly improve his survivability on stray hits.



So this is my fairly successful team thus far, and I really like sticking to what I am used to. I would certainly love to have feedback to optimize the effectiveness of this team, as I know it is far from perfect.
 
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Very nice!

A couple of suggestions:

Firstly Excadrill: I feel you'll go farther with a more bulky EV distribution as that's the reason you are having trouble setting up an SD. 252 Spe EVs is overkill as he outspeeds everything that is not named Deoxys (who can't do anything) with like 200 Spe EVs. I'm not sure the exact Speed required but check my Stoutland. Basically factor Scarf Jolly fully invested Salamence. Nothing else that could possibly be faster is either a threat to you or used (Like Scarf Jolteon is a thing lol). Stoutland has lower base speed and uses less Speed EVs to outspeed the quickest the metagame can muster. Throw the rest into HP and defenses as that allows you 1 Swords Dance and gives you the luxury of switching up moves (Something Stoutland is jealous of). With your naturally high base attack, you won't need very much attack investment to do serious damage after an SD. I would suggest Max HP or Def with the minimum needed in Speed to outspeed Jolly ScarfMence in the sand and the rest in either HP / Def / Atk. I put emphasis on Def over Spdef because the only fear you have in sand is priority moves, be they Aqua Jet, or Mach Punch. After an SD, most SpAtkers are 1. not fast enough and 2. dead to a coverage move. Also for this reason I suggest @ Weakness Policy instead of Air Balloon as you are now more physically tanky and if you can eat the EQ, Water Jet, or Mach Punch use SD on EQ user or coverage move on the priority and the WP will boost you to insane attack levels allowing an OHKO and sweep. Reflect support is helpful of course.
Wrapped up, try:

Excadrill @ Weakness Policy
Adamant/Impish
252HP / ~200 Spe / remainder in Def or remainder in HP / ~200 Spe / 252 Def
-Swords Dance
-Iron Head
-EQ
-X Scissor / Rapid Spin

The last move slot is mostly for coverage or utility. You also have Rock Slide, Aerial Ace, Brick Break and Poison Jab available though I wouldn't run Poison Jab when you have access to Iron Head and X-Scissor. You need that STAB Iron Head over Rock Slide as it allows you to check Fairys. The reason you could never get an SD off before on Exca is because of Spin. You'd switch him in to Spin and they would switch in their water/priority user check on the turn you spin thus not allowing you to SD and sweep. For this reason, unless you still fear hazards, it's more of an afterthought in this set. Especially if you opt to run a Defog user instead..


I see Espeon is not only a screen setter but also a bit of insurance for keeping rocks off the field. I can respect that. But it also takes a fair bit of prediction to use that right. At the cost of another water weakness, you could run Donphan who is a physical wall of sorts. He can Spin, he can SR, he can Yawn, he can Roar, he can hit back decently. Or just use Defog ala Scizor. Note both mons are not only not frail, but they are immune to your SS unlike Espeon. Scizor keeps a water weakness from being too prevalent and you don't mind your hazards being cleared as you run none.

Perhaps (My preference is italicized):
Scizor @ Life Orb / Lum or Lefties
Adamant / Careful
252 HP / 252 Attack / 4 Spe or a bulky set with 252 HP and 3/4 of the remainder in SpD and the rest in either Atk or Def
-Defog
-Bullet Punch
-U-Turn
-Roost/Swords Dance (only if on bulky set)

This also gives you a priority user of which you have none and since he Defogs for you, you can run another coverage move on Exca, allows you to scout with U Turn, providing momentum as this team could always use a bulky pivot switch and allows you to wall waters a little better. He also takes a hell of a better physical hit than Espeon. Think about it, he has more 5 base more HP than Espeon, only 15 less base SpD (Mega actually has 5 more SpD than Espy) that is ramped up a lot higher than your Espy with proper EVs and nature, 40 more defense in regular forme (90 in Mega!) can boost or heal, sponges stray Toxics that can mess up your team (Espeon bouncing back a Toxic on a poison type doesnt really do much) and provides momentum while also possibly clearing the field (and doesnt fear Pursuit foregoing basically worthless Baton Pass if theyre not running it). If you end up foregoing Zard as your Mega, I highly suggest him as a candidate for Mega as his sponging becomes even more prevalent. Also, you can run a bulky set like the latter and replace U Turn with Bug Bite/Coverage (note knock off is NOT boosted by technician this gen) and/or replace Defog with Baton Pass and ohgawdwhathaveIjustdone. That's right, a BPd SD boost to Exca. Nice for a shock factor. Keep him slow so you are forced to take the damage or status that would have been given to Exca :) Also Sand Teams are good teams for Scizor because a majority of his team mates do not mind taking the fire move for him. It's a built in cushion.



I know Zard is there as a nice mix up, but are you sure you want to run another weather? It neuters Rotom's Hydro Pump. messes with Excas sweep and forces you to have to do a predictable switch into a Sand Setter upon leaving which makes you a little vulnerable to a savvy opponent. I see he is your special attacker, but you may have other options and it allows you to use a Mega Slot. It also eliminates the need for an extra Spinner/Defogger as the remainder of your pokes kinda shrug off SR damage. You put a lot of weight towards needing something that can reliably eliminate hazards when half of your team is immune to spikes/tspikes and takes normal damage at best if not resisted from SR..


Just some thoughts.. a very nice Sand Team and yet doesn't replicate mine! Great minds think similarly.

That or it's the Overmind telling us to go SS.
 
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Thanks for the suggestions! The Speed EVs actually do make sense, and I will change those accordingly. However, I will keep max attack on Excadrill in the event where I am in absolutely no position to set up SD (those scenarios will still occur, and I must prepare for them). Max attack will also improve his revenge KO capabilities, which is also what I often use him for. Of course, this would mean I still can't run Weakness Policy, because Excadrill will still most likely not survive a supereffective hit anyway.

I know how bulky Scizor is, but he would fall to Specs Keldeo or Mega Gyarados (which, this team is actually very weak to, and I would have to rely on Excadrill for the revenge KO either of them). Also unlike Espeon and Sylveon (as I've mentioned as a potential replacement), Scizor is very afraid of burns. While Charizard can switch in on Will-O-Wisp, if he hasn't Mega-evolved, it's risky to switch in Rotom-W, who is perhaps the most common burn spreader. Espeon basically fills a very huge team support role that Sylveon could fill potentially just as well if not more.

As for Charizard's viability in the team, since I have two very bulky sand inducers, it isn't too difficult to bring the sand back in after Charizard has done his job. Since I lead with Rotom, and Charizard doesn't really show up until after Rotom is either KOd or doesn't have much left it can do, having the sun weakening its Hydro Pump hasn't been an issue. Also, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and many others just couldn't care less about the rest of my team. While I could opt for another special attacker, Charizard requires the least support by far.

I've been using Sandstorm since when Dream World OU was a thing, and so far, it has been home to me, when it comes to battling.
 
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Thanks for the suggestions! The Speed EVs actually do make sense, and I will change those accordingly. However, I will keep max attack on Excadrill in the event where I am in absolutely no position to set up SD (those scenarios will still occur, and I must prepare for them). Max attack will also improve his revenge KO capabilities, which is also what I often use him for. Of course, this would mean I still can't run Weakness Policy, because Excadrill will still most likely not survive a supereffective hit anyway.

I know how bulky Scizor is, but he would fall to Specs Keldeo or Mega Gyarados (which, this team is actually very weak to, and I would have to rely on Excadrill for the revenge KO either of them). Also unlike Espeon and Sylveon (as I've mentioned as a potential replacement), Scizor is very afraid of burns. While Charizard can switch in on Will-O-Wisp, if he hasn't Mega-evolved, it's risky to switch in Rotom-W, who is perhaps the most common burn spreader. Espeon basically fills a very huge team support role that Sylveon could fill potentially just as well if not more.

As for Charizard's viability in the team, since I have two very bulky sand inducers, it isn't too difficult to bring the sand back in after Charizard has done his job. Since I lead with Rotom, and Charizard doesn't really show up until after Rotom is either KOd or doesn't have much left it can do, having the sun weakening its Hydro Pump hasn't been an issue. Also, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and many others just couldn't care less about the rest of my team. While I could opt for another special attacker, Charizard requires the least support by far.

I've been using Sandstorm since when Dream World OU was a thing, and so far, it has been home to me, when it comes to battling.


Scizor falls to Specs Keldeo or Mega Gyarados but Espeon, is suitable? You can't switch into Hydro Pumps (2HKO) or even Secret Sword (70 %2HKO) and fail to OHKO with Psychic on Keldeo. Mega Gyarados has a field day vs Espeon. Though it can set up screens before it dies, I give it that. Scizor doesnt fear burns if it has Swords Dance as one boost now nullifies burn. Bonus points if you run him with Baton Pass as you can pass on SDs to something that can use it. Scizor has better bulk vs Keldeo if you need it to sponge an attack unlike Espeon and possibly U Turn out, if you claim you wouldnt do such a thing, neither would you throw in Espeon. It also can at least damage Gyarados or pass a Swords Boost. Gyarados still has to stat up to take out Scizor unless it has Fire Fang.

It seems like you only run Zard for special fire vs Ferrothorn, Skarm which can be put on Tar with Fire Blast and frees you an entire mon and breaking your back because of Stealth Rock. Zard can check a Swampert too though I give him that. Too bad no one switches Swampert into a Zard without knowing if it's X or Y. Swampert also isn't too much of an issue for this team as though he is bulky, he's not overly powerful.

The only time bulky Exca couldnt at least set up SD is vs a far boosted mon or extremely potent special attacker. In which case Exca still cannot get the OHKO. Excadrill 2HKOs Keldeo with or without (80+% chance) any attack investment and attack positive nature EQ, can you believe that? Aqua Jet from Azumarill is a 3HKO with full defensive investment and waterfall is a 2HKO. Meaning you get your weakness policy with boost. Neither a fully attack vested nor fully defensive vested Exca can survive a surf from Timid Starmie nor OHKO with EQ. There's so many calcs to run...
 
What I mean is, Scizor does not add much to the team. I brought up relevant water Pokemon, only because Scizor is supposed to be able to switch into them.

Unlike Charizard, Tyranitar cannot do much to Mandibuzz, Rotom-W, and many other non-fire-weak walls.

Like I said, I often use Excadrill as a revenge killer. If he lacks the attack investment, certain offensive threats may survive his attacks and respond.
 
Starmie is just an example of a typical mon you'd be attempting to "revenge". Youd fail with full attack investment and die if Starmie is healthy but with no defensive investment. And that's a pretty frail mon vs your full atk EVd, and nature 100 BP stab unresisted. Imagine if you have to use your other move for "coverage" RS. Shit is probably roosting that off. I've never been a fan of Excadrill. Without investment he dies to a sneeze, fails a lot of OHKOs and nobody allows him to SD sweep.
 
Rotom wouldnt switch into Stoutland (2HKO) but would switch into Exca (A million hit KO). Mandibuzz wouldnt switch into Stoutland using his safest option (2HKO) if rocks are up but would vs Exca on predicted EQ or even RS (3HKO) as she can Roost. Stoutland wins one vs one vs Starmie (OHKO) where we already know where Exca ends up. Exca cant even get a guaranteed OHKO against uninvested Salamence running speed WITH rocks up WITH inaccurate Rock Slide. Stoutland has the same chance using Return WITHOUT rocks. Full atk Excadrill is no good. Stoutland 2HKOs vs standard Swampert and eats anything he throws while Excadrill has a chance to 2HKO but is easily OHKOd. All of these Mons can come in on the switch, or on revenge and threaten you with one hit. Even Mandi can Foul Play on you while you SD then KO you next turn while you fail to kill. Mandibuzz does more damage to you with Foul Play on UNBOOSTED you then you do to her with full atk investment AND a Rock Slide at +2! Do you know how sad that is? Is there any wonder now why you "often have trouble setting up"? Against EQ weak pokes you have a niche. But people see EQ weak as a liability on teams. Also, anything EQ weak with balloon laughs at Exca as it OHKOs him. The amount of shit in the metagame that shrugs Exca is insane. The amount of things properly revenged by Stoutland in the meta is equally insane.


Defensively?
Breloom Mach Punch Technician boosted OHKO without rocks on Exca even with 100 HP EVs and you couldnt touch it if you wanted to.
87.5% 2HKO on Stoutland who easily OHKOs back.

Azumarill Huge Power Aqua Jet @ Choice Band OHKOS you WITHOUT rocks while you 2HKO if for some reason Aqua Jet missed (read, your'e checked.).
Stoutland deals more damage with his 2HKO not even on his coverage move and can switch IN to a banded Aqua Jet and still eat 2 more (3HKO).

All of this is assuming RETURN on Stoutland who could opt for coverage moves to turn a lot of these threats into more solid OHKOs and 2HKOs without rock support.
 
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Excadrill doesn't come out until very late in the game. Chances are, I would have made sure what you've mentioned have already been KOd or crippled by the rest of my team (Charizard gets rid of most of them). One problem I have with Weakness Policy if the opponent can't hit Excadrill for supereffective damage, but with powerful STAB instead, not only do I take a lot of damage, but I completely lose any chance to set up Swords Dance, making Excadrill weaker than ever.
 
That's why you run full def on him and switch if you see the SpAtkr. You live most SE physical hits and almost every normal physical attack so you SD instead of attack when you see that coming and set yourself up for a sweep.

Def nature and full def EVs instead of atk means you survive anything physical to do JUST 1 SD boost. You sacrifice 99 initial attack to gain 207 attack MORE than full attacker after your SD. And if they happened to hit you with a SE hit (common)? 513 more attack.

Random example:
EQ STAB from full attack EVd, adamant Swampert is a 2HKO against a full def timid Exca and you survive with +4 attack (because you know your mon and know he will outlive this, no point in weakening the opponent and not kill him when you can SD and gain more attack and kill him next turn). Whereas before on "full attacker" you were OHKOd with Waterfall (weaker yet still hits you through balloon) and overkilled by EQ if anything so much as rapid spun your balloon and it still takes you 2 turns to break through Swampert if Waterfall missed somehow.

Nobody expects this set.
 
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One problem I have with Weakness Policy if the opponent can't hit Excadrill for supereffective damage, but with powerful STAB instead, not only do I take a lot of damage, but I completely lose any chance to set up Swords Dance, making Excadrill weaker than ever.


Not at all! You SD ON the attack. Let them hit. You have bulk and are the fastest mon in the land bar priority. You simply SD through their attack and next turn hit them with a sledgehammer 612 attack stat (as opposed to 405). And if theirs priority?? You eat Quick Attacks from Pisnir, Extreme Speeds from Dragonite, Aqua Jets from Azumarill, Mach Punches from Breloom and OHKO back!*



*You need rocks up to OHKO Azu but it's better than before as you can at least survive a hit and kill it if not maim it instead of run in fear.
 
I may try out Weakness Policy with your suggested spread, but is Sword Dance even possible after I get hit by a supereffective move?

Read my Swampert example. What used to easily OHKO you before, is now a comfortable 2HKO.

It all goes down to knowing your mon and the opponent. Full def Timid Exca is quite decent at taking a stray physical, even SE.
 
As far as running from SE attacks in fear: FULL attack EV Adamant base 155 power Mega Gyarados with STAB Waterfall only has a 50/50 chance to OHKO you or may set off your weakness policy putting you at +4 and setting up the OHKO/Sweep.

That's quite a step up.
 
I've used Weakness Policy Excadrill a few times, but it's usually relatively early game where I even get to predict a supereffective move. While I won't deny that it's a far more effective method of boosting, I do tend to use Excadrill offensively super-lategame, so I am highly debating on whether I should keep Swords Dance at all. It's also a lot easier to ensure sandstorm lategame than early or mid-game.
 
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Im glad to hear he's working out for you. Replace SD with another coverage move then, you offensive monster ;)

What pokes give you the most trouble even AFTER a weakness policy?
 
I would suggest thundurus in place of espeon for your team, with prankster taunt for hazards. This makes rotom unnecessary, so I'd put Latias. This beats birdspam, azu, and hazards while aegi can be dealt with by exca, ttar, and charizard-y. I'm on mobile, so sorry for the incomplete review. Good team!

Thundurus @ expert belt
Max sp Atk and speed
Timid or naive with superpower
Tbolt
HP ice
Taunt
Thunderwave/superpower/possibly nastyplot

Latias @ leftovers or lifeorb
Modest nature
Max HP speed
Dracometeor Defog tbolt healing wish

Tbolt is for bd azumarill, if that isn't a problem use HP fighting.

Sorry I come off as a bad speller etc. I'm on a crappy keyboard [/excuses]
 
I would suggest thundurus in place of espeon for your team, with prankster taunt for hazards. This makes rotom unnecessary, so I'd put Latias. This beats birdspam, azu, and hazards while aegi can be dealt with by exca, ttar, and charizard-y. I'm on mobile, so sorry for the incomplete review. Good team!

Thundurus @ expert belt
Max sp Atk and speed
Timid or naive with superpower
Tbolt
HP ice
Taunt
Thunderwave/superpower/possibly nastyplot

Latias @ leftovers or lifeorb
Modest nature
Max HP speed
Dracometeor Defog tbolt healing wish

Tbolt is for bd azumarill, if that isn't a problem use HP fighting.

Sorry I come off as a bad speller etc. I'm on a crappy keyboard [/excuses]

I'll be sure to give it a shot, thanks!
 
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