Resource XY NU Viability Ranking

[mertyville]

Nominating Simipour for D
While being one of the fastes Water-Types, Simipour relies on the special side on Nasty Plot to compete with Seismitoad, Sumowott, Omastar, Swanna and Ludicolo.
On the physical side it is outclassed by Sumowott, Gator, Carracosta, Poliwrath, Floatzel.
While the tier is filled with too many water types, Simipour can still shine as a special set-up sweeper and somewhat good coverage moves: Surf/Scald, Ice Beam, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, Hidden Power...

 

[Punchshroom]

Typhlosion to A-/A (preferably A-, imo)
Typhlosion is inarguably NU's single hardest-hitter, pretty much 2HKOing most of the tier with its insanely powerful STAB Eruption. Specs Typhlosion is arguably the only pokemon in all of NU to have zero true counters (With Mantine being the closest to one, as it can switch in, but is worn down quickly by SR and Eruption, so it can only reliably do so once. Anyways, Mantine is in general pretty insignificant).

False: Dragalge and Lanturn serve as cold hard stops to Typhlosion for the most part. It's nice you mentioned "only" in your post, implying less straightforward Pokes like Archeops, Shiftry, or even Magneton are easier to counter.

If it predicts a switch-in to a pokemon that can tank an Eruption, it 2HKOes with its coverage moves in Hidden Power Grass and Focus Blast. This is complemented by the fact that it forces a lot of switches, and with proper prediction, can break down the opposing team to the point your sweeper can clean up Typhlosion's mess. It can even attempt to sweep itself thanks to its above-average base 100 speed, allowing it to outspeed most of the non-Scarfed tier. In fact, the only pokemon in A- and above rank that naturally outspeed it (Mismagius, Archeops, and Sceptile) do not dare switch in on it. Typhlosion pretty much can only be revenge-killed, as next to zero can switch in without taking lots of damage. It even runs an effective Scarf set that lets it outspeed its previous offensive checks and become one of the fastest pokemon in NU.

The problem with trying to predict these switches is that Typhlosion really cannot afford to be spamming these attacks otherwise. If there is a Fire resist on the opposing team, Typh may have to hold off on spamming its Fire moves and consider going for its weak/unreliable attacks in order to catch them on the switch, unlike Pyroar who at least has Normal STAB to fall back onto for reliable damage. Also, the Scarf set is nice but becomes very notably weaker than Specs.

All in all, while it may not be TOTAL DOMINATION like Sigilyph, Typhlosion is an extremely powerful and fast threat to any team. It nicely fits the description of an A-rank poke, as it can sweep significant portions of the metagame, but requires support (SR is awesome for breaking its would-be "counters" and Defog/Rapid Spin support is required, though these are pretty standard for most teams) and has some flaws (susceptibility to entry hazards, an unreliable main move, weakness to priority/faster pokes) that keep it from doing its job consistently.

Now I won't deny Typhlosion's power, but I do have to address how reliant on Eruption it is. Typhlosion is basically needs Eruption to even distinguish itself from its powerful Fire-type brethren, many of which otherwise surpass it in power, coverage, and/or speed. And to make Eruption work, you need anti-hazard (this applies for all grounded hazards as well) and something to handle priority (and Typh is open to pretty much every Sucker Puncher in the tier), which already seems like a bit to ask for from an A- Rank sweeper. Its health-concerned sweeps make it somewhat reminiscent to a Fire-type Archeops, except Archeops hovers over grounded hazards, can Roost to help itself, doesn't have to be Choiced, and actually hold Life Orb since its power nerf is not gradual unlike Typhlosion's.

Typhlosion is powerful, but doesn't seem as flexible as its equally strong B+ fellow Fire-type Pyroar, who can use both Choice sets and LO sets with Endeavor (Endeavor doesn't induce LO recoil). I'd say both stay in the same rank, which is currently B+. They did help to shape the meta though so they could both potentially move up to A-, but I'll settle with B+ for now.

Edit:

Nominating Simipour for D
While being one of the fastest Water-Types, Simipour relies on the special side on Nasty Plot to compete with Seismitoad, Sumowott, Omastar, Swanna and Ludicolo.
On the physical side it is outclassed by Sumowott, Gator, Carracosta, Poliwrath, Floatzel.
While the tier is filled with too many water types, Simipour can still shine as a special set-up sweeper and somewhat good coverage moves: Surf/Scald, Ice Beam, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, Hidden Power...

Also lol implying Simipour is lower than Simisear and Simisage when it is the most viable of the three and is the only one not directly outclassed by other Pokes of its typing. Probably C+ worthy.

 

[mertyville]

Also lol implying Simipour is lower than Simisear and Simisage when it is the most viable of the three and is the only one not directly outclassed by other Pokes of its typing. Probably C+ worthy.

What does Simipour has otherwise to keep it over D rank? Secondary STAB? Great Offenses without boost? Good Bulk? Outstanding sets?
At the same time, I am curious how Simisear is directly outclassed by any other Fire-Type in NU?

 

[Punchshroom]

What does Simipour has otherwise to keep it over D rank? Secondary STAB? Great Offenses without boost? Good Bulk? Outstanding sets?
At the same time, I am curious how Simisear is directly outclassed by any other Fire-Type in NU?

Natural speed and boosting move is Simipour's greatest advantage over other Water-types, who either need to setup to be fast (Omastar, Gorebyss, Ludicolo) or simply can't at all (Samurott).

On the other hand, fast Fire-types are up the wazoo in NU and have the power and coverage to render Simisear's Nasty Plot advantage less notable. Even Ninetales can give Simisear competition as a Nasty Plot user with its access to Psyshock, which strikes Dragalge and Thick Fat Hariyama.

It's what the Simis can do, that the rest of the tier cannot, that decides their ranking. Fast Water-types are in much shorter supply than fast Fire-types.

 

[Durant]

Nominating Scyther for around B rank.

So Scyther is actually pretty darn good right now. With all around good stats, movepool and ability it can do a wide variety of things. Scyther's typing also gives him some useful resistances like Bug, Fighting, Grass and a Ground immunity. Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Swords Dance and Baton Pass are all things it can do well. First of all Choice Band Scyther which is my favorite set. Choice Band Scyther is mainly useful for weakening opponents and attempting to sweep later on. With a Choice Band equipped Scyther can effectively wear down Pokemon that wall it like Steelix quite well thanks to the raw power of Scyther. Base 105 speed is a great speed tier allowing Scyther to outspeed the likes of Sigilpyh, Jynx, Liligant and basically almost the entire unscarfed tier. Barely falling short of Archeops and speed tying with Cryogonal sucks but what you gonna do about it. Choice Band Scyther is all around a great hole puncher and a pretty potent late game cleaner. Choice Scarf Scyther plays largely similar to CHoice Band Scyther only except that it trades power for being able to outspeed almost the entire tier bar Choice Scarf Archeops if that is a thing. Swords Dance Scyther plays pretty different compared to choice sets as it trades in blazing fast speed and strong power right of the bat for being able to set up a Swords Dance and be a late game sweeper. With some of it's usuful resistances and offensive pressure it can create free turns to set up a Swords Dance. Keep in mind though that this set does need a lot of support like killing of anything that outspeeds it ( Basically snipe the oppsing Choice Scarf user ) and needs help wearing down it's counters. Baton Pass Scyther faces large competition from Ninjask but being able to actually use the boosts yourslef gives it an edge over Ninjask.

Scyther does have a few downsides though. While his typing gives it a few useful resistances it also obtains a large amount of weaknesses. Ice, Fire and Electric attacks are all common and Scyther usually can't take them well. However it's biggest problem is his giant Stealth Rock weakness. Being 4x weak to Stealth Rock turns a lot of players off as it will need Rapid Spin or Defog support to keep it alive. This is even worse for the choice locked sets as they switch in and out a lot of the time. Due to this Scyther isn't exactly an easy Pokemon to use or put onto a team which admittedly is a huge downside to it. However with good team support Scyther is well worth the effort which is why I think it deserves to be ranked.

 

[termi]

Accelgor is B+ atm, whereas zeb said it'd move up to A-. Fix plz

 

[mertyville]

Natural speed and boosting move is Simipour's greatest advantage over other Water-types, who either need to setup to be fast (Omastar, Gorebyss, Ludicolo) or simply can't at all (Samurott).

On the other hand, fast Fire-types are up the wazoo in NU and have the power and coverage to render Simisear's Nasty Plot advantage less notable. Even Ninetales can give Simisear competition as a Nasty Plot user with its access to Psyshock, which strikes Dragalge and Thick Fat Hariyama.

It's what the Simis can do, that the rest of the tier cannot, that decides their ranking. Fast Water-types are in much shorter supply than fast Fire-types.

Simisear has a base speed of 101 and is only outrun by Pyroar and priority Fletchinder, has access Knock-Off compare to other Fire-Types, only outclassed physically by Magmotar, overall better coverage than Ninetails (while it is true that Psyshock does make slide difference). So were is that being directly outclassed?

Simipour is slower than Floatzel who is even stronger physically and Samurott, Gator, Carracosta have priority. And while it is still faster without set-up than other water-types, it doesn't has notable moves besides Nasty Plot, the power and the bulk to rival most of them. Sure Omastar needs to Shell Smash to be faster but Simipour needs to Nasty Plot to be threatening, while Omastar does increase more than just its speed. Same goes to Gorebyss and even Huntail and both can even pass those Statboosts to other 'mons.

 

[ryan]

You guys are splitting hairs about the Simis. They're all pretty bad and really don't warrant this much debate lol.

 

[Lord Alphose]

Nominating Scyther for around B rank.

So Scyther is actually pretty darn good right now. With all around good stats, movepool and ability it can do a wide variety of things. Scyther's typing also gives him some useful resistances like Bug, Fighting, Grass and a Ground immunity. Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Swords Dance and Baton Pass are all things it can do well. First of all Choice Band Scyther which is my favorite set. Choice Band Scyther is mainly useful for weakening opponents and attempting to sweep later on. With a Choice Band equipped Scyther can effectively wear down Pokemon that wall it like Steelix quite well thanks to the raw power of Scyther. Base 105 speed is a great speed tier allowing Scyther to outspeed the likes of Sigilpyh, Jynx, Liligant and basically almost the entire unscarfed tier. Barely falling short of Archeops and speed tying with Cryogonal sucks but what you gonna do about it. Choice Band Scyther is all around a great hole puncher and a pretty potent late game cleaner. Choice Scarf Scyther plays largely similar to CHoice Band Scyther only except that it trades power for being able to outspeed almost the entire tier bar Choice Scarf Archeops if that is a thing. Swords Dance Scyther plays pretty different compared to choice sets as it trades in blazing fast speed and strong power right of the bat for being able to set up a Swords Dance and be a late game sweeper. With some of it's usuful resistances and offensive pressure it can create free turns to set up a Swords Dance. Keep in mind though that this set does need a lot of support like killing of anything that outspeeds it ( Basically snipe the oppsing Choice Scarf user ) and needs help wearing down it's counters. Baton Pass Scyther faces large competition from Ninjask but being able to actually use the boosts yourslef gives it an edge over Ninjask.

Scyther does have a few downsides though. While his typing gives it a few useful resistances it also obtains a large amount of weaknesses. Ice, Fire and Electric attacks are all common and Scyther usually can't take them well. However it's biggest problem is his giant Stealth Rock weakness. Being 4x weak to Stealth Rock turns a lot of players off as it will need Rapid Spin or Defog support to keep it alive. This is even worse for the choice locked sets as they switch in and out a lot of the time. Due to this Scyther isn't exactly an easy Pokemon to use or put onto a team which admittedly is a huge downside to it. However with good team support Scyther is well worth the effort which is why I think it deserves to be ranked.

I actually have a hard time agreeing with this just because of that Stealth Rock weakness. There are a lot of reliable Stealth Rock setters(Crustle, Arechops, Seismitoad, Rhydon are all capable of using Stealth Rock) that are really commonly used. C rank is for Pokemon with a crippling flaw, so I think that's where Scyther would fit best.

 

[Durant]

I actually have a hard time agreeing with this just because of that Stealth Rock weakness. There are a lot of reliable Stealth Rock setters(Crustle, Arechops, Seismitoad, Rhydon are all capable of using Stealth Rock) that are really commonly used. C rank is for Pokemon with a crippling flaw, so I think that's where Scyther would fit best.

Yeah I guess that could be true. Mainly wanted him to be ranked at all though.

 

[Mistrals]

Simisear has a base speed of 101 and is only outrun by Pyroar and priority Fletchinder, has access Knock-Off compare to other Fire-Types, only outclassed physically by Magmotar, overall better coverage than Ninetails (while it is true that Psyshock does make slide difference). So were is that being directly outclassed?

Simipour is slower than Floatzel who is even stronger physically and Samurott, Gator, Carracosta have priority. And while it is still faster without set-up than other water-types, it doesn't has notable moves besides Nasty Plot, the power and the bulk to rival most of them. Sure Omastar needs to Shell Smash to be faster but Simipour needs to Nasty Plot to be threatening, while Omastar does increase more than just its speed. Same goes to Gorebyss and even Huntail and both can even pass those Statboosts to other 'mons.

Very curious as to how Simisear has better coverage on a nasty plot set than Ninetales, with it's HP grass that is weaker than an energy ball, and it's focus blast that doesn't really cover many notable things, only hitting Probopass and Bastiodon harder than STAB fire blast, both of which aren't really that relevant any more. Ninetails' Psyshock hits the actually relevant Hariyama and Dragalage, as well as hitting certian less relevant pokemon such as Mantine decently. Also, while it is faster than Typhlosion, that's only by 1 speed point. And the physical set is outclassed by Rapidash as well, which is faster, hits harder, and gets better coverage.

While Floatzel is faster than Simipour, and probably better for pure physical, Simipour does get access to Knock Off and Acrobatics. Samurott and non-Dragon Dance Feraligatr, while they do have aqua jet, are notably slower than Simipour, and before smashing so is Carracosta. Also, Simipour's mixed set also has a decent niche that none of these mons pull off as well.


Noctowl, Lumineon, Wigglytuff, Vullaby, and Pawniard up to D Rank

While all of these are obviously mediocre mons, they have individual niches I feel are worthy of going up to D rank, though definitely not worthy of more than a couple sentences.

Noctowl has a niche of being a specially bulky with reliable recovery, unlike Mantine. While it's not a great pokemon, it's not so abysmally horrible that you should never use it.

Lumineon is one of the few defoggers in the tier that isn't weak to SR, and also has access to support moves such as Tailwind. It also has such useful moves as Scald and U-turn in it's arsenal.

Wigglytuff is the only pokemon with wish in the tier that doesn't have bad HP or is weak to fighting, and also has a wide variety of moves such as Stealth Rock and Flamethrower it can use, along with the great fairy typing.

Vullaby is a bulky little mini Mandibuzz that can act a as a decent physical wall, defog supporter, and also can actually do some damage with foul play. It also has the good ability overcoat, and moves like knock off and whirlwind.

Pawniard is an offensively threatening steel type with decent bulk after Eviolite, priority Sucker Punch, a good abillity in Defiant, and the omnipresent Knock Off. It can dent teams with a swords dance set, pursuit trap, use support moves such as thunder wave and stealth rock, or hit hard with it's STAB moves.



Audino for B+

Audino is easily the best wish passer in the tier, and the glue that's holding stallier and bulkier teams together for the most part. With a lot of great bulky and tanky pokemon in the tier lacking recovery, wish passing is needed more than ever. Yet, without any good wish passers dropping down, and the palindrome fish known as Alomomola leaving us for RU, a void was left to be filled in, and Audino is easily the best pokemon that can. With it's access to Regenerator, good bulk, and great options in it's arsenal for it to carry such as Thunder Wave and Heal Bell, this pokemon fills the Cleric roll on a lot of teams, supporting it's teammates while also stopping a lot of the tier's special threats. A lot of pokemon enjoy help from Audino, such as Weezing, Uxie, Mantine, Steelix, Granbull, Poliwrath, Gourgeist, Spiritomb, Grumpig, and many others. Without this vital wish support pokemon like those will get easily whittled down and killed, and there's not really much else that fills this roll. It's main competition, Lickilicky, while having it's own niches, is inferior due to lack of regenerator recovery that helps the wish passer pass those wishes much easily, while also staying alive.

 

[jake]

I have to go out in the middle of discussing these, so I'm just going to post what I've gone through already and will come back to it and update afterwards.

Hide

Quite Quiet (Sandslash from C to C+ or B-, Pachirisu from unlisted to D) ✓

Aite. Slasher shall go C+ for now.
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Prince Peach (Cradily from D to C+ or B-)

This is an enormous jump with little reason backing it. I would not turn down an argument to move Cradily up, but this in no way sways me to do so.
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Yellow Cheese (Accelgor from B+ to A-) ✓

In debate. Personally, I am fine with this, and I will move it to A-.
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Brawlfest (Qwilfish from B to A, [Poliwrath from C to B-], Vileplume from A to S) ✓

Poliwrath was already moved to B! I am opposed to Vileplume going to S, for now - it settles quite nicely in A, and going all the way to S is an enormous jump (it's certainly not on par with Sigilyph, imo). I am uncomfortable with Qwilfish going all the way to A, because I simply don't think it's as universally good as other Pokemon in A. I'm open to debate, but currently I think Qwilfish would be better suited for a bump from B to B+, not to A.
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Expulso (Leavanny from C+ to B, Tauros from B to B+, Pangoro from C+ to B-) ✓

I'm not fond of bumping Leavanny from C+ to B. I don't think it is universally the best Sticky Web setter in NU - Kricketune, Ariados, and even Masquerain all have their advantages. It's good because it has access to Dual Screens + SW and it's reasonably strong, but Kricketune has Taunt (major advantage), Ariados has a stronger STAB + Sucker Punch + Toxic Spikes, and Masquerain has Defog / QD pass. It's already a notch up on the rest, but I don't think it needs to be bumped up further.

I have no opinion either way on Tauros, but I'm fine with it going to B+.

I think Pangoro should remain in C+. You listed it as a shaky check to Sigilyph, but from that list it's also just a shaky check to Spiritomb (burn) and Shiftry (uninvested Leaf Storm does 56-66 to max HP variants; invested Leaf Storm does 78-93 to max HP variants). Lack of recovery and speed are general frustrations. I don't think it has enough advantages to merit it moving up further, but if other people agree with you or have arguments to dismiss my concerns then aite.
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scorpdestroyer (Feraligatr from A+ to S)

As with Shiftry, I am neutral on the topic. I won't move it up unless there's significant support, however.
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Raseri (loads) ✓

Rhydon has already been shifted, so that's fine. Accelgor has also been shifted. I'm fine with bumping up Crustle.

I think Jynx is potentially debatable, but I agree enough that I will move it down for now but we'll leave it as a topic of discussion. Sandslash will go to C+, as per the nomination above. I'm not sure if Mightyena is C+ quality, but I'm fine with moving it to C for now and bumping it up further in the future if it merits it. Probopass is fine in C.

I don't think I agree with putting Malamar in D, it does have enough of a niche against slow, bulky teams that I find it on the level of Pokemon like Altaria. The primary issue with it is that it requires you to screw up and let it get a Superpower or two first, but it's reasonably workable enough that I think it should remain C-. I'm open for debate, however!
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Brawlfest (Crustle from B- to B+)

I think B is satisfactory for how it performs. I'm open to moving it up further in the future, but I don't think it has enough of a niche over other hazards users to justify it jumping into B+. As always, open to debate.
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Rowan ([Sceptile from B+ to A+ or A])

B+ to A+ is too big of a jump for a Pokemon so easily hindered by its forced lack of coverage (it always misses something thanks to relying on HP Rock or HP Fire) and occasional lack of punch (105 SpA isn't great, even when backed by strong moves and LO). It is A rank from the last jump, though. I'm just not confident whatsoever that it should be A+.
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Magis4Life (Swellow from B to B+)

I don't think Swellow merits a bump from B to B+. It has all of the same issues it's always had, and most reasonable teams have answers to it. The metagame isn't really suitable for it to be particularly effective right now.
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lol kingler ([Vileplume from B to B+])

Already happened.
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Punchshroom (Ludicolo from B to A)

I'm alright with this. I can see some room for debate, so I'll leave this one open for now, but if there is no debate on it then I will move it to A.​

I will update with the concrete noms (ones I don't see any potential debate for) as soon as I post as well as posting the changelog, and I will list all of the ones I want to see more debate on.

 

[mertyville]

Very curious as to how Simisear has better coverage on a nasty plot set than Ninetales, with it's HP grass that is weaker than an energy ball, and it's focus blast that doesn't really cover many notable things, only hitting Probopass and Bastiodon harder than STAB fire blast, both of which aren't really that relevant any more. Ninetails' Psyshock hits the actually relevant Hariyama and Dragalage, as well as hitting certian less relevant pokemon such as Mantine decently. Also, while it is faster than Typhlosion, that's only by 1 speed point. And the physical set is outclassed by Rapidash as well, which is faster, hits harder, and gets better coverage.

Oh, I forgot Ninetails got Energy Ball but it is still naturally faster and hits harder with its fire blast.
And does Rapidash get Knock Off or any other viable Fire-Type in the tier? Does Simisear have to keep recover from Wild Charge or Flare Blitz recoil?

While Floatzel is faster than Simipour, and probably better for pure physical, Simipour does get access to Knock Off and Acrobatics. Samurott and non-Dragon Dance Feraligatr, while they do have aqua jet, are notably slower than Simipour, and before smashing so is Carracosta. Also, Simipour's mixed set also has a decent niche that none of these mons pull off as well.

While Floatzel does not get Knock Off, pretty much any other Water-types do like Samurott, Omastar, Kingler, Carracosta, Seismitoad, but now take that statement (having knock-off and maybe akrobatics if you need too) and do it with Simisear. Also, Simisear's mixed set also has a decent niche that none of these mons pull off as well.
While true, those other Water-types are significantly slower, besides Floatzel (who is significantly faster), they can bypass that by priority and speed boosting moves and they do succeed in doing so, if you want accept it or not. So does Simipour have to waste a turn to boost its offense to do significant damage compare to other Water-types, and again, Omastar and Carracosta can boost with Shell Smash even there offensive stats which are already higher.

Relies in Bold

 

[termi]

: C-/C

Luka: Regice should pretty much be in the C ranks, due to having Curse, which can make it a bulky, defensive tank. No kidding, it could have Curse / Substitute / Toxic / Ice Punch or Iron Head. It could make a good punch, if it has the specified EVs. As well, Regice's pretty much -thumbs up sign- to Regirock.

Joseph: Yeah! I agree!

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: D/C-

Luka: Regigigas... Joseph, may you go on this?

Joseph: Sure. -- Anyways, Regigigas seems pretty bulky. Regigigas, with Slow Start is horrible, offensive-wise, I know, but, it's defensive-side is pretty unique. Confuse Ray and Thunder Wave, to fool your opponents and make them confuse there heads off and hit therselves on purpose. -sigh- Excellent. And paralyze them to have a better headache, and never attack again. Froakie will love that. So, that's why.

Luka: ...

: A-

Luka and Joseph: So, Rotom should be ranked A-... --

Joseph: C'mon. It's equally as good as Rotom-Heat, in my opinion, and that form is UU! Will-O-Wisp, Shadow Ball, Volt Switch and then switch back to a surprising Rest... and then wake up and trick your opponents to another pokemon using Volt Switch! Classic strategy with a Chesto Berry, similar to the one I use on Washing Rochine (Rotom-W).

Luka: Joseph. Stop. No. Let me do this.

Joseph: -eyeroll and sigh- Sure.

Luka: Anyways. As I was saying, it should be ranked A-, due to high strategy, decent Special-Sweeper, pretty good for a NU user. Its defenses aren't as good as it's forms, but, it's offensive sides are pretty advanced in NU. Now, that's all I have to say. And...

Luka and Joseph: That's the end of Luka and Joseph Newport! See you tomorrow!

Before you start posting please take care of your schizophrenia? Hello??

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Stoutland for C. Terrifying wallbreaker in sand, and a pretty decent bulky attacker with scrappy. fight+ normal with scrappy gives perfect coverage(?) In NU and it has a nice selection of good coverage moves to go with it.

Also put Slaking in D because it hits super hard ( despite killing momentum) and you can always use the infamous mummyking combo.

 

[Magis4Life]

Fearow for D--> C-
Though mostly outclassed by swellow, it has a niche in drill run which can be used to hit steel types and rock types very hard, including magneton which swellow and dodrio can only dream of, and hits especially hard if it lands a critical due to its ability sniper. Sits at a respectable base 100 speed, outpacing the base 95 benchmark that many nu mons are under. If only it had brave bird, though drill peck also has a high critical hit ratio and benefits from sniper.

 

[termi]

Stoutland for C. Terrifying wallbreaker in sand, and a pretty decent bulky attacker with scrappy. fight+ normal with scrappy gives perfect coverage(?) In NU and it has a nice selection of good coverage moves to go with it.

Also put Slaking in D because it hits super hard ( despite killing momentum) and you can always use the infamous mummyking combo.

As a Scrappy attacker Stoutland is completely outclassed by Kangaskhan. Sand Rush is a valid set I suppose, although I don't know how good sand really is in this meta, idk if anyone can share some knowledge here?

 

[Magis4Life]

As a Scrappy attacker Stoutland is completely outclassed by Kangaskhan. Sand Rush is a valid set I suppose, although I don't know how good sand really is in this meta, idk if anyone can share some knowledge here?

As an avid user of sand in nu/ru, I can say that stoutland definitely has a niche as a physical attacker under sand. Under sand in late game when rock types and steels are weakened, stoutland can easily smash through weakened teams with STAB return alone, especially in this fast-paced metagame. Stoutland also forms a nice offensive core with sandslash, who can wreck the steels and rock types that stoutland doesn't like. With choice band or lo attached, stoutland is a terrifying wall breaker that outpaces nearly the entire meta game under sand and even carries superpower and play rough for the rocks, steels, and spiritomb/granbull respectively. It is outclassed as a scrappy attacker for sure, though.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

As a Scrappy attacker Stoutland is completely outclassed by Kangaskhan. Sand Rush is a valid set I suppose, although I don't know how good sand really is in this meta, idk if anyone can share some knowledge here?

Sand rush is without a doubt its best set, it terrorizes late game and can punch through many walls with STAB return alone. Sandslash + Stoutland is probably the most dangerous offensice core in sand, as they combined shits on most of the tier with their stabs respectively.

I have to disagree with kang being better in every way as a scrappy attacker, since it is weaker and lacks a strong fighting coverage move (Stoutland gets superpower). But then that is up for debate.

Edit: magis4life made a really simular post without me noticing

 

[jake]

finished

Malkyrian (Vullaby from unlisted to A-) ✓

Uhh.. well, while I don't have any qualms against adding it to the rankings itself, I'm not very confident about putting it in A- (especially since I've not yet seen anyone but you using it). I would be more comfortable putting it in a lower ranking, for now - B- seems ideal, since Vullaby looks similar to Togetic in quality and bulk.
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atomicllamas (Klinklang from C- to B) ✓

Alright. I underestimated it previously, and have since been proven wrong. I'm ok with this, though I will probably sit it at B- for the time being.
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Shuckleking87 (Ludicolo from B to A- or A, Klinklang from C- to B- or C+, Scyther from unlisted to B+, Weezing from C- to B- or B) ✓

Ludicolo is going to be moved up, as is Klinklang. I'm not sure that Scyther merits B+, since it's got so many hard stops like Rhydon and Steelix. I'm alright with putting it in B because it's pretty good despite 4x weakness to SR, but yeah I don't think it should be up by Vivillon (which has a super accurate sleep move, a great boosting move, and a very strong STAB). I'm okay with B- Weezing, though I don't want to put it any higher.
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Peef Rimgar (Uxie from B to B+ or A-)

Simipour probably just got deleted when we were working on the Viability Ranking in the PiratePad before it was posted. It will be added to C.

I don't agree with bumping Uxie. Yeah, it gets SR, but I feel that it's actually essentially the opposite of what you described it as: it's virtually dead weight after it gets SR, and I don't think Shiftry is what is holding it back (it does get U-turn, as you noted). It's the fact that it's piddly weak and has no recovery to actually handle stuff after it sets SR. It gets the job done, but I don't think it's superior to any other hazard setter and I don't believe it deserves B+. Feel free to discuss this.
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Yellow Cheese (Bouffalant from C to B- or B) ✓

Fine with this, B-.
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Palpitoad707 (Swellow from B to B+)

Same reasoning as the other nom, though I'm willing to debate this.
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blaziken1337 (far too many) ✓

Sandslash is going C+. Weezing is going B-. Carracosta is generally inferior to the other SSers imo, since it's so absurdly slow (outsped by Sceptile even after a Smash) and "walled" much more easily than the others. Yes, Sturdy WP is a set, but it's not a great one. I don't think it merits B+ because 1) too slow, 2) minimal set-up opportunities, 3) unlike Barb, it's forced to run Aqua Jet instead of an additional coverage move to compensate for its poor Attack. Debate away, but I think B- is a good place for it.

Simisage is fine where it's at; it has enough advantages over the Pokemon you've listed that it shouldn't drop to D. Simipour is going to C. I'm OK with Aurorus going C-. I'm OK with removing Dusknoir, unless someone can give me a legitimate advantage it has over any one of our other ghosts. I'm 50/50 on Regirock, so I would like to see more discussion.

Please post less noms in a single post next time. I already have to respond to a trillion of them at the same time, so seeing nine in a single post is really daunting and draining for me. Post the most important ones to you first, then you can post more after.
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Unfixable (Lickilicky from B- to B, Simipour from unranked to C+ or B-)

I don't think your argument for Lickilicky proves anything about why it should go to B; you're literally just repeating its qualities, which merit a ranking somewhere in B. I'm not convinced at all to move it to B from B-.

Simisage is going to go to C; you can debate after these shifts if you feel it deserves to be pushed up further.
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Dat Blast (Qwilfish from B to B+ or A-, Gurdurr from A- to B+) ✓

Qwilfish is already going to go to B+, as per a post above. I'm fine with Gurdurr dropping, I agree with your points.
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Hollywood (Liepard from B+ to [A], Kricketune from unlisted to C) ✓

OK w/ both.
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Dardavatar (Typhlosion from B+ to A- or A)

The points Punchshroom made reflect my opinion. It will remain in B+ for now.
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mertyville (Simipour from unlisted to D)

It's going to C, as stated above.
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Snotjoch (Scyther from unlisted to B)

I'm fine with it going to B, as stated above.
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blaziken1337 (various) ✓

I'm OK with all of the D rank noms, Vullaby will go higher.

I'm OK with Audino going to B+, though I would like to see further discussion.
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Yellow Cheese (Stoutland from D to C, Slaking from unlisted to D) ✓

Stoutland kinda sucks. It has a "niche" in Sand, but currently I don't believe that's enough to push it past C-. I don't want to put it in C.

I really don't want to put Slaking in D, because it is among the worst Pokemon you can actually pick for a team. Losing one of every two turns while it's out is such a horrid notion that it's not even worth suggesting that it's usable. I mean, I'll do it if there is a lot of support, but Slaking is seriously rather horrible in XY NU and belongs among the "you're a noob" pile of Pokemon that you see on the ladder, such as Beautifly and Monferno.
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Magis4Life (Fearow from D to C-)

I don't think Drill Run is enough of a niche to push it into C- (and Dodrio has Knock Off, Brave Bird, and 20 base Attack over Fearow). I would almost always rather use Dodrio instead of Fearow.​

Incoming: update to the OP, changelog, and a few I want to continue discussing.

 

[LightningLuxray]

Ok here's why I feel Audino should be B+, since you asked for more discussion on it.

While there are a lot of great, great, GREAT defensive Pokemon in NU - such as Spiritomb, Seismitoad, Gourgeist, Poliwrath, Steelix, Dragalge, Mantine, Lanturn, Granbull, and plenty more - they all struggle with an unfortunate lack of reliable recovery. This is where Audino comes in; with a good 103 HP stat and access to Wish, Audino is great at healing the rest of the team back up to full health. This makes it almost impossible for the opponent to wear down these massively annoying walls, and makes it much easier for your team to win the game. This doesn't even include the fact that Audino itself is a good wall, being able to take on a good majority of the tiers special attackers. Honestly, as of right now, I don't think stall can afford to go without Audino just due to the fact that so very few of NU's best walls can reliably heal themselves, and even the ones that can, such as Vileplume, rely on low PP moves such as Moonlight. Overall, Audino is probably one of the best Wish passers for stall, and is in all honesty a Pokemon I believe stall can't afford to go without right now.

 

[jake]

Changelog: (short)

Sandslash from C to C+
Accelgor from B+ to A-
Qwilfish from B to B+
Tauros from B to B+
Jynx from B to B-
Crustle from B- to B
Vullaby from unlisted to B-
Klinklang from C- to B-
Scyther from unlisted to B
Weezing from C- to B-
Simipour from unlisted to C
Masquerain from C to C-
Kricketune from unlisted to C
Bouffalant from C to B-
Aurorus from D to C-
Dusknoir from D to unlisted
Gurdurr from A- to B+
Liepard from B+ to A
Noctowl from unlisted to D
Lumineon from unlisted to D
Wigglytuff from unlisted to D
Pawniard from unlisted to D
Stoutland from D to C-

tired as shit so sorry if i missed one or made a mistake. debate the following, please:

Audino from B to B+
Ludicolo from B to A
Regirock from C+ to B-

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Audino from B to B+:

I agree with this completely. In addition to what LightningLuxray said, I use Audino on a few offensive teams as well and it's honestly one of the best pivots to special moves there is. Regenerator means it can freely switch, scout for choice moves, and run, which means it checks dangerous stuff like Specs Typhlosion easily. Also, offensive teams really like the second chances from Wish and Heal Bell. It's a lot better than Lickilicky because it's not as momentum sapping; sure you lose momentum from Wishing but you don't have to worry about the health of your pivot since it auto recovers.

Ludicolo from B to A:

Ludicolo is one of the best sweepers right now; so many teams are weak to its coverage + Speed in rain, and I think it needs a bump up. I don't think it really fits in A though because constant offensive pressure leaves Ludicolo hard-pressed to set up, which is the main problem I've had when using Ludicolo and it isn't fast enough to sweep without a rain boost. B+ would be a better ranking for it, and I wouldn't oppose A- either.

Regirock from C+ to B-:

I don't agree with this. Regirock doesn't really add much over something else like Golem and Rhydon, apart from the fact that it can paralyze and doesn't die immediately to random HP Grasses. You can argue that Regirock counters Archeops and Fire-types better but Rhydon can also counter Archeops and check Fire-types with a SpD spread as it is bulky enough to live most unboosted, unSTAB HP Grass. Additional perks of Rhydon include hitting harder, having a Ground STAB, and absorbing Volt Switch. Regirock only has a small niche, and I don't agree that it should move up.

Some of the other changes eg. Aurorus in C- and Dusknoir in unlisted aren't reflected yet, but I expect that's cos you're tired / are gonna do it later zeb :)

 

[SPACE FORCE meeps]

hi i've been playing around with the tier a bit, dont have too much to say as i havent used too much in the tier, but i just have a couple things to suggest

steelix from c to b-, maybe even higher

this is surprisingly low, it is an extremely reliable stealth rock user as it is capable of taking literally any physical attack and non-super effective special attacks (i use max spdef steelix, i think it's much better than max def steelix, considering it already has massive physical defense, the physical threats you're trying to wall with steelix (swellow, scyther, fletchinder, klinklang, etc) get straight up walled by steelix anyways, and the special defense helps deal with some special attackers or mixed attackers better (shiftry, vivillion (lo +1 hurricane can 2hko phys def steelix), etc) allowing it to set up rocks without really worrying about getting knocked down to sturdy to setup rocks, and then be essentially useless for the rest of the battle. it's typing makes it effective against some of the common electric-types namely rotom, rotom-s, and magneton (specs magneton hp ground cant 2hko steelix). it's attack stat isnt too great but it still hits pretty hard considering gyro ball is pretty strong on some stuff (max speed shiftry is 2hko, and a lot of frail fast stuff like sceptile and archeops dont like taking a gyro ball either). and finally roar is a nice move as well to phaze out some setup sweepers. special attacking water and fire-types can harm it, but pokemon like lanturn, dragalge, and altaria pair nicely with it covering steelix's major weaknesses.

rotom-s to b- to b

rotom-s is p nice, i think ebelt is really good with it and probably the set it can run actually. a lot of common threats are ohko'd, or 2hko'd while not being able to do much back (given it's running volt switch tbolt air slash hp grass, really nice coverage overall). speed is pretty nice as well, outspeeds stuff like nonscarf sawk, shiftry, feraligatr, etc. bulk is pretty nice too so some of the faster threats cant ohko while rotom-s can ohko in return (notably sigilyph and sceptile)

im tired now

 

[Brawlfest]

Bouffalant from C to B / B-
Bouffalant is currently a very solid pokemon in the metagame. While it doesn't stand out as a top dog, it deserves a spot among the B range pokemon. It is strong, bulky, and has enough of a movepool to give it tons of utility as a tank and wallbreaker. Utilizing Substitute Attacker, Banded, Swords Dance, and Assault Vest sets, it can be quite unpredictable and offers undeniable utility in a fast paced offensive metagame, breaking down teams quite easily with 110 base Attack, and tanking a fair amount of hits from most weaker offensive pokemon in the metagame, nabbing setup opportunities or free hits. Overall it is a just all around good pokemon, and deserves to be B Rank as it has only few significant flaws which are largely outshined by the Utility you get from using it.

Golurk from C to B+ / B
While Golurk isn't as amazing as it was last gen, it still matches up well against a large amount of the metagame. With its amazing 124 attack stat and great coverage, it is still a pokemon that is insanely hard to switch into, and with the introduction of Assault Vest it can now take hits like never before, hard checking stuff like Magneton. More importantly, it is one of few reliable stealth rockers in the tier that maintains offensive pressure and isn't susceptible to fighting attacks, and its unique typing oftentimes can round off a team's synergy. While it was nerfed across the generation change, I believe it warrants at least B ranking.