This was probably mentioned earlier, but since I'm too lazy to read all 24 pages... Pinsir can learn Feint, which can outprioritize Talonflame's Brave Bird and with only a difference of 10 BP from Quick Attack. I don't know if that should be noted or not nor if Talonflame is still common.
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Pokémon Pinsir
- Thread starter Adonzo
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I see your logic behind that, but I feel that feint is a bit too situational for pinsir. Sure, it will outprioritize BB, but generally pinsir will have teammates that can handle talonflame.
To be fair, if Mpinsir is set up at +2, after rocks, Talon can't check it anymore. Feint is there to give us the choice whether we believe we can beat SmogonBird with our own pokemon, which QA is more useful, or if the clean sweep is perfect after that, which is when Feint is superior.
None of them will stay in on you except Skarmory (lol Magnet Pull). Why run Specs? Run Scarf so you can actually check some things. Switch in on Talonflame Brave Bird and fuck them like a child when they try to Flare Blitz. Thundurus trying to Twave spam? Not today. Garchomp just used Swords Dance? Now it's dead. Mega Pinsir? Go ahead and call the police, they can't un-rape it.
Granted Scarf Magnezone hits like a joke compared to some other threats and its setup bait for half of OU but I guess it can check slightly more than Specs can.
Why Specs? Magnezone is piss weak without it.
You can't OHKO a Garchomp. I know it can switch in on a BB from Talonflame and most likely they are locked into it with Choice Band. Running Scarf forces you to use Timid, Specs gives you the power to weaken most of Pinsir's counters so it can come in and sweep easier.
You can't OHKO a Garchomp with Specs either because it easily outruns and Earthquakes you.
There are easier ways to wear down Mega Pinsir's counters without running Specs Magnezone. Zappy and Rotom W will never switch in on Magnezone anyway (well Zapdos might but it can Roost off the Thunderbolts / HP Ice regardless and it's immune to paralyze / can survive a crit while Roosting). Skarmory gets fucked but fucking Skarmory is pretty easy. Just run Fire Blast LO Garchomp or something if you want to weaken Skarm / Zapdos while not being total crap against everything else.
Scarf Magnezone is trash too but at least I can say "well I won't get swept by Talonflame or Mega Pinsir and I have a fast Volt Switch".
No but seriously Magnezone is an anus. Skarmory and sorta Ferrothorn / Scizor are the only things it can really trap anymore and it's completely useless after that. Gothitelle can trap literally an entire stall team and despite having worse typing it has better overall bulk. Enough that it can sorta have some use against offense.
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I think that Facade is an option worth mentioning on Mega Pinsirs movepool. It helps with pesky Will O Wisp users and serves as an insanely strong STAB assuming you're statused. It however, is very situational, and should be run over Return or Thrash since Quick Attack/Feint is too important to give up.
Facade would make Pinsir an excellent check to Sableye, but Return is just too good to give up. The problem Pinsir is that he needs every move in his flagship set.
Return - Insanely Powerful STAB with no drawbacks.
Swords Dance - Allows him to Sweep at +2
Earthquake - Hits everything that walls flying-type for super-effective damage.
Quick Attack - Priority.
Return - Insanely Powerful STAB with no drawbacks.
Swords Dance - Allows him to Sweep at +2
Earthquake - Hits everything that walls flying-type for super-effective damage.
Quick Attack - Priority.
Wisp, all things considered, isn't common enough to warrant using Facade. Wisp users in OU are:
-Bulky X-zard: doesn't check if you're at +2
-Talonflame: Facade won't help here
-Heatran: Loses without Air Balloon. With Ballon, Lava Plume can KO anyway
-Gengar: +2 Quick Attack OHKOs I'm pretty sure
-Rotom-W: Just not as common anymore. Also Volt-Switch hurts
-Bulky X-zard: doesn't check if you're at +2
-Talonflame: Facade won't help here
-Heatran: Loses without Air Balloon. With Ballon, Lava Plume can KO anyway
-Gengar: +2 Quick Attack OHKOs I'm pretty sure
-Rotom-W: Just not as common anymore. Also Volt-Switch hurts
Not to mention that if you're burned you're dead weight anyways, since it halves the power of the rest of your moves. Plus facade doubles in power when burned, while burn halves your power, so burned and unburned facade from any non-guts pokemon do literally the same damage.
Edit: my bad, as of gen VI facade negates burn's drop when using it. However you're facing a significant drop in power if something doesn't burn you, and you still get your quick attack and EQ cut in half.
Your'e better off either running a fire type partner to absorb burns and open holes for pinsir, or just running strong checks or counters to the most common wisp users. A cleric if you're especially worried, but one of those will likely bring your momentum to a crawl.
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Pretty sure it negates the attack drop, along with doubling the power.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-137565249
^This match was against a user with MPinsir, who could have easily swept my on the turn where it is Azu vs Pinsir.
The match shows that MPinsir is actually one of the better threats in the game rn, as despite the massive fall from popularity, it was a blessing in disguise as some users (such as my idiotic self) lack proper checks and counters to it, and that game was essentially me praying I would get lucky. I was about to forfeit when he made the crucial mistake of using Return on an Azumarill at -2
We all know it's still a massive threat, but I fear not all of us are preparing for it like we should be, it's not one of our Auto teambuilding checks, "ZardX weak, not really, Tyranitar dumps on this team though...." etc...
Maybe it's just me, but I think this thing could return back up to the top with proper teambuilding support (Fuck you Thundurus-I)
^This match was against a user with MPinsir, who could have easily swept my on the turn where it is Azu vs Pinsir.
The match shows that MPinsir is actually one of the better threats in the game rn, as despite the massive fall from popularity, it was a blessing in disguise as some users (such as my idiotic self) lack proper checks and counters to it, and that game was essentially me praying I would get lucky. I was about to forfeit when he made the crucial mistake of using Return on an Azumarill at -2
We all know it's still a massive threat, but I fear not all of us are preparing for it like we should be, it's not one of our Auto teambuilding checks, "ZardX weak, not really, Tyranitar dumps on this team though...." etc...
Maybe it's just me, but I think this thing could return back up to the top with proper teambuilding support (Fuck you Thundurus-I)
As I said earlier, Pinsir & Talonflame are probably going to drop off the scene in the upcoming months and then return with a bang. Bird Spam wrecks anything that it isn't prepared for it. The meta was overprepared for the birds a few months ago, and now people are shifting to a mawile/scizor antimeta.
So here's an idea I had today. Let's try to build a strong weather team for Pinsir.
I'm thinking it should be a Rain team, taking half from Fire damage is always a great thing. Then there's the Rock weakness, so I say Skarm, who is neutral to Rock and has a great defense, although Foretress may fulfill the role better. Both guys benefit from the fire nerf under the rain. A Swift Swim used can be used to punch holes so that Pinsir can clean up later. Those are my 2 cents.
Ferrothorn is probably the best steel, as he's downright stealth rock resistant as well as being able to stomach the opponent's boosted water moves. I'm hesitant to say a defogger or spinner is truly necessary, as Mpinsir is a lategame sweeper capable of busting through even resisting walls with raw power and also has priority to handle most revenge killers. I can't honestly see him switching in and out several times and needing the support. Though I guess it depends how offensive the team we end up creating is and how strongly it puts pressure on the opponent.
Delibird is the man for the job. On a more serious note, Tentacruel benefits from the rain thanks to Rain Dish and can Rapid Spin, absorb Toxic Spikes and lay down hazards of his own. Skarmory also lays hazards and gets Defog, same goes for Foretress who also gains momentum and brings Pinsir safely courtesy of Volt Switch. Those are the main advantages (IMO) over Ferrothorn that I think are worth considering.
I like the idea of physically defensive Rotom-W as a pivot so that he can take pressure off ferrothorn when needed. Also, a slow volt-switch is a very useful perk. It's great for keeping up momentum during mid-match. In addition, we need a rain abuser. Kabutops could work since he has great attack, Aqua Jet, and can Rapid Spin for Pinsir in a pinch. However, Kingdra provides Special Attack support that this team needs.
Omastar is worth considering.
So here's what I've come up with so far.
I went with offensive toad since we haven't established a special attacker yet. Rotom is a placeholder (and will be replaced if necessary) because he's such a good pivot and makes any team better by default in the building stage.
Sweeperella (Pinsir) (M) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance
Pivot Trash (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spd
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split
Hazard Trash (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Thunder Wave
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
Trash (Politoed) @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
Ability: Hyper Cutter
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance
Pivot Trash (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spd
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split
Hazard Trash (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Thunder Wave
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
Trash (Politoed) @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
I went with offensive toad since we haven't established a special attacker yet. Rotom is a placeholder (and will be replaced if necessary) because he's such a good pivot and makes any team better by default in the building stage.
Looks cool so far, thought up a pretty niche set that sounds so far like it will work well with this team:
Thundurus @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Rain Dance
- Hidden Power [Flying]/[Ice]
- Thunder Wave
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Rain Dance
- Hidden Power [Flying]/[Ice]
- Thunder Wave
This set can abuse rain, set up rain, has some surprise factor, and generally has good synergy with this team so far. Rain Dance+Prankster means you have priority rain which means you can absolutely screw over early game/lead zard y which shits on this team:
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus in Rain: 136-162 (45.3 - 54%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I'm skeptical about using thunder but the hax chance and high power were too tempting for me d: I'm not really sure which HP to use, flying seems like the better one atm because you get flying stab without having to possibly bring in pinsir too early and can actually do something to quagsire switch-ins(who also isn't friendly towards this team), but ice is a pretty good way of weakening tougher dragons for pinsir. Twave obviously REALLY helps pinsir by opening up more opportunities to mega-evolve and giving pinsir more chances to setup/kill things. Also means you can run a different move on Ferrothorn, like spikes because hazard trash or power whip to hit rotom-w hard. Just a suggestion, and has some originality to it.
Also I was bored and messing with calcs and Pinsir can actually live +1 Mega Zard X's Fire Punch in rain with a max .4% lmao
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir in Rain: 228-270 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
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If anyone ever doubted Quick Attack on Mega Pinsir here you go http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-140662687. Granted I'm a scrub and it's at 1300.
Usually the lack of power makes you miss some key kos, (can't think of which off the top of my head)
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