XY OU the dark horses / raikou & keldeo {{ 1840+ }}

[Jin White]

ey. i'm jin.

i made a team ft. raikou because it checks geniespam, it checks birdspam, and with a calm + powerful mind it even breaks mega venusaur. keldeo is a happy little horse frolicking in a world where geniespam, birdspam, and mega venusaur are checked at the door.

i've also been using another dark horse: krookodile. he does work, ESPECIALLY in a meta filled w/ aegislash. ofc i tried lando-t in his spot first, but tell me what kind of landorus gets 4HKO'd at best by shadow ball and still sets up rocks & gets STAB knock off... krookodile is pretty fkin gud. he's got his own share of flaws & doesn't thrive as well on suspect ladder where aegislash isn't on every team, so idk if there's a better replacement.

if the team looks all fkin over the place, that's because it is. conversely, i think the reason the team does well is because there are so many alternate win conditions packed together. keldeo - raikou - talonflame really do open up sweeps for one another.

at a glance:

​

in depth:

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 32 Def / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Extrasensory
- Calm Mind​

Role: Bulky Sweeper // Here's what Raikou does that Thundurus can't: it always beats opposing Thundurus & most other electric-types (Rotom-W, Manectric), it sets up comfortably on Mega Venusaur, and it has usable 90/75/100 bulk to tank priority hits and maintain a sweep. It checks birdspam, forcing M-Pinsir & Talonflame into priority Flying attacks (resisted) or get OHKO'd by T-bolt. It checks the genies, OHKOing Lando-I and 2HKOing Thundurus. It checks opposing Keldeo, while not being vulnerable to pursuit trapping like the Lati twins. It struggles against sand offense, which is where Keldeo comes in. Shoutouts to Srn9130

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Scald
- Hidden Power [Flying]
​

Role: Wallbreaker & Cleaner // One of the most powerful wallbreakers atm with essentially mixed STAB attacks. It specifically handles opposing TTar, Excadrill, Chansey, Quagsire, Bisharp, etc which Raikou needs eliminated. I tend to spam Scald more than anything else because even that hits terrifyingly hard. HP Flying is for M-Venusaur & Conkeldurr switch-ins of course, but at least on suspect I'm seeing a definite rise in Lati@s switch-ins that Icy Wind might be better suited for. Keldeo is easily stopped by Talonflame & Mega Pinsir, which is why Raikou is a good friend.

lol this picture
Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Defog
- Healing Wish
​

Role: Defogger // Basically the most useless member on my team, but kind of necessary. Defog is good, and I'm not sure where else to get that support. I swap this 'mon in and out w/ Scarf Trick Latios and Life Orb Latios and even a Heal Bell Sylveon one time but meh, Healing Wish is giving me the most utility so far. This team struggles against full stall and so Healing Wish really, really helps alleviate the risk of Mawile getting a burn early by letting it come back with a full life to keep smashing things. EV'd to outrun max+ 108 & minimize LO recoil. Ferrothorn's a big ol' bitch for my team so HP Fire could in theory be useful idek.

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
​

Role: Wallbreaker & Cleaner // Pretty standard pretty scary, w/ Knock Off to bash switch-ins including but not limited to Heatran. Mawile is my best answer to stall because even physical walls don't want to take a Play Rough. This little monster was initially the focus of the team alongside Keldeo & Lati but its role has kind of shifted to hole-puncher rather than end-game wincon. That said, a +2 Sucker Punch cleans up matches EZ. The speed was I guess for speedcreep Scizor idk why that's even relevant. I've been considering switching the whole set for a SubPunch variant to better take on Heatran & Ferrothorn? Though that +2 Sucker Punch is 2 sexy. Shoutouts to Bizdis tell me what the speed is for plz LOL

Krookodile @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 100 Def / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt
​

Role: Bulky Pivot & Utility // Here's what Krookodile does that Landorus-T can't:

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 107-126 (27.1 - 31.9%) -- 51.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Krookodile: 156-184 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

& of course he gets to Taunt, shutting down opposing Chanseys & Mandibuzzes etc. He gets to spam STAB Knock Off which packs a punch and a half. He's EVd to outrun Jolly TTar, counter virtually any Aegislash, and the remaining EVs went into attack.

The thing is, this guy always brings in opposing Keldeos after doing his job (but so does Lando-I, Bisharp, etc) so he generally gets one good play in a match & then gets sacked, but w/e he's good at what he does. In suspect tho he's a little less relevant D:

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Bulk Up
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
​

Role: Revenge Killer & Sweeper // At a very marginal loss in power this guy gains a whole shit ton of utility with its BU set. It completely wrecks opposing Bisharps & Mega Mawiles and uses them as set up fodder to the point where its usual checks - Rotom-W, other electric-types - can no longer afford to take boosted Brave Birds. Mono-flying is not even bad. Spreading burns along with the double intimidate in Mawile + Krookodile lets Raikou & Keldeo in for free. It even has the slightest of chances to beat sash Breloom 1v1 w/ a first turn WoW. It outspeeds 252+ base 80s even w/o any speed investment.



That's about it, thanks for reading. I'm ready to break into 1900's+ and I need your help :D My main areas for concern are EV spreads (I don't think I'm optimal on a couple 'mons), hazard control (alternatives to Lati@s), and losing to opposing stall. Krookodile is cool af but idk how relevant he'll be in a meta w/o Aegislash.

Here are some of the bigger threats:

hard to stop if it gets a +1 late-game

late-game scarf gets to pick me off w/ EQ + Stone Edge, other variants aren't a threat

sash breloom is a huge problem if the opponent has good hazard control & keeps him for end-game

just annoying, can't break them easily enough w/o getting statused / risking keldeo early. krook handles them best w/ taunt actually.


idk i thought i'd try & gather some replays but most of them are shiite. a lot of these have me using trick scarf or LO latios
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-140431666
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-140404544
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-139859252 lol BU talon sweep
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-140624144 vs. stall on suspect / ft. healing wish latias

the import

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 32 Def / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Extrasensory
- Calm Mind

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Scald
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Defog
- Healing Wish

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Krookodile @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 100 Def / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Bulk Up
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost

 

[Dat Substitute]

A really nice team, congratulations. Just one thing: put the IVs in Atk Latias 0 (cause: Foul Play) and the 29 IVs in HP, so you find yourself 299 and minimize the damages suffered by the Life Orb.

 

[Srn]

Ah ty for the shoutout :]

Tha team looks p. solid, but I'd try to fix up the ev spread on talonflame. Instead of maxing out attack, try 248 HP/8 def/252 sp. def. This set actually becomes a strong check to char-y and landorus, which is pretty nice. Additionally, I personally like taunt>wisp, but its really up to you. Give both a go.

Also, the team in which I was using raikou had problems with scarf grounds as well, so I just said "fuck it" and went shuca berry>leftovers on raikou. Surprisingly, it has worked pretty well:

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 32 Def Shuca Berry Raikou: 216-255 (67 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 32 Def Shuca Berry Raikou: 199-235 (61.8 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Here's a battle where it came through for me :]

Normally I'd say "you may want to consider Mega Heracross over Mega Mawile simply because of its great synergy with raikou," but that'd leave you with no steels, and thus no lati@s switch in.

Other than that, good job with this team fren :]

 

[xJownage]

fire fang > knock off on mawile, trust me sd mmawile is one of my most used pokes.

in general i like AV raikou better but w/e. it fits your team well so i am not complaining.

This team doesnt need bu talon, and would really appreciate a normal banded variant that can revenge much better than BU can.

cool to see krookodile on a team, its viable since aegislash.

for the record, if you use trick latios specs is always better as specs draco just makes stuff explode.

may rate more later but i am lazy. just put basic things ftm

 

[Jin White]

fire fang > knock off on mawile, trust me sd mmawile is one of my most used pokes.

in general i like AV raikou better but w/e. it fits your team well so i am not complaining.

This team doesnt need bu talon, and would really appreciate a normal banded variant that can revenge much better than BU can.

cool to see krookodile on a team, its viable since aegislash.

for the record, if you use trick latios specs is always better as specs draco just makes stuff explode.

may rate more later but i am lazy. just put basic things ftm

ty for the feedback !

meh scarf latios checks the things on my threatlist not to mention revenge kills a +1 megazard x, takes out keldeo even after an icy wind speed drop, surprise kills greninja... scarf latios is very very useful imo
& the utility BU talon gives me overwhelms what i could do w/ a CB talonflame... choice locked talon gives away free turns after revenging something, BU talonflame revenges and can proceed to cripple the opposing team. i've never missed the power of CB yet since i'm running max attack sharp beak.
i'd look into 252 spdef talon but because talon really IS my revenge killer moreso than a sweeper i don't think i can afford to lose the immediate punch

edit : http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-140978538 BU talonflame on suspect ladder

ahh and about raikou. i figure he's fast enough to get a CM on the things that matters, granting him the AV boost anyway. he's less useful as a pivot, but much more useful for the end-game or to overpower certain mons like lati@s & m-venu

that shuca berry tho, i might need to try that... would help w/ mega-gyarados somewhat

EDIT AGAIN: osnap forgot the importable... will edit it in when i'm off my phone & on a computer tonight

 

[Bizdis]

The speed on mawile lets it beat Scizor by a few points, yeah, but that is probably pretty irrelevant. If you do decide to run fire fang on it then it speed creeps all common mawile variants by a few points, so there's that LOL. If you want to invest more in hp that's cool, but I'd run like 96ish min because that speedcreeps aegislash by a few points, which is huge.

 

[Jin White]

ahh okay ty... i'm liking knock off on mawile a good bit namely to weaken opposing stall and scout lando-t, etc

ALTHOUGH subpunch mawile is going to help a lot vs. opposing ferrothorn, which presently take way too much effort to break through

update: on the suspect ladder, i am trying LO Modest Keldeo and Physically Defensive SR Celebi (in place of Krook).

Here are some good replays highlighting Celebi & co:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-142644713
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-142664781

Celebi is a great defense against all the sandspam on the ladder, as well as Mega Medicham (highlighted above), and can take a Hyper Voice & cripple Gardy w/ T-Wave... overall it's pretty good, much more viable in a meta w/o Aegislash !