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Resource Ask a simple question get a simple answer: RU edition

hilarious said:
so i got in a heated debate on the ru chat on ps

what should a standard band or scarf braviary use (ignore the fact sub bu is way better): facade return frustration or thrash? i personally think either the former or latter
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Return and Frustration are simply more reliable. Brave Bird already has a lot of power and Choice Braviary generally needs consistency and reliability out of its Normal-type STAB. Facade is better done by Swellow thanks to Guts while Thrash locks in Braviary and isn't any stronger than Brave Bird thus making it a lesser option as well. For Scarf sets, they absolutely need Return / Frustration for a reliable cleaning move for when Braviary doesn't have the HP percentage it needs to spam Brave Bird to clean up late-game.
 
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frustration is better than return only for ditto.. because all people use 255 happyness on it xD
Facade is useless on it.. as said EonX.. facade is better on swellow for the trait's boost
 
Priority acrobatics (aka 110 BP STAB since Fletch shouldn't hold an item) and Swords Dance make it an excellent late-game sweeper and revenge killer.
It also gets WoW and Roost to wear down it's counters and heal itself (Roost even gets priority)
 
Enki said:
you are sad or happy for it? oO
In ru there are many counters / checks.. it isn't brocken.. soo yeah
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him asking why it's RU doesn't mean he thinks its broken lol.
TruBlaze said:
Q: Why is Fletchinder in RU?
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Priority Acrobatics keeps a lot of dangerous Pokemon like Delphox, Yanmega, Sharpedo, and Virizion in check, and its excellent and spreading burns with WoW since it lures so many walls/tanks like mola, registeel, rhyperior etc. It's also an excellent check to Escavalier thanks to a good typing and roost, and it can easily set up swords dance and at +2, acrobatics is fucking scary.
 
I was referring to a Pokemon Toxic Spikes is clearly unrelaible especially for defensive teams (what if on turn one meloetta began the set up) and your opp could have a grounded poison. And not any phaser which fyi means pseudo hazer its not like Slowking can phaze out or Rhyperior can't keep on eating boosted shadowballs.
 
hilarious can i tell you something, do you honestly think its meloetta that's the problem? its not. meloetta is obscenely easy to check, the fact of the matter is your defensive teams are too passive and get assmongled by anything with a sub, like melo or braviary, really anything that's bulky and can set up sub. i know it sounds hypocritical coming from me, but maybe if you didnt have as much passive teams you wouldn't have this issue.

and fyi: if you have problems with subcm melo than i really have no clue as to how you deal with subcm cress, who has more bulk and immunity to spikes / toxic spikes.
 
Alright, i'm gonna try and be as helpful as possible here.

Honestly the things that check and counter subCM meloetta change depending on what coverage moves its running (although there are a few universal ones). I've run defensive teams myself in the past and i've been able to get around it at least most of the time.

Some defensive/bulky offensive checks that can help out with subCM meloetta include:

Spiritomb (hard counter if resttalk Wow Foul Play, it even has infiltrator to burn/attack from behind the sub lol)
Specially Defensive Drapion (Tbolt/Psychic has major trouble, Hyper Voice can be annoying but you can still take at least one boosted one, phazes Meloetta, hurts it with Knock Off, and can set up Toxic Spikes once grounded poisons are down.
Standard spread Roar Rhyperior (beats both Psyshock Varients and Hyper Voice varients, boosted Psychic hurts quite a bit tho).
SpD Meloetta (takes everything and uses Perish Song to force a switch, no recovery but wish support from Aromatisse or Alomomola is really helpful)
Skuntank (See Drapion, although it exchanges phazing and tspikes for Defog and Sucker Punch)
Escavalier (Not exactly a stall Pokemon but it can work alright i guess, i mean Alomomola is a p. common sight on stall teams and the two pair together fairly well, not to mention Escavalier checks some other annoyances to stall teams, also gives you some offensive presence if you need it).

Hope i helped out at least a bit :x.

another alternative option to Drapion is running scarf w/ pursuit as kind of a gluemon to your defensive team, i've seen that used effectively by a few users before.
 
No, Molk dislikes them because they clutter the forum and usually die after a couple of day. Most of those things in the UU forum also died after a few days
 
They are basically the most useless of threads. If you really want to discuss a pokemon then post about it in the np thread or even the ranking thread.
 
hilarious said:
What are a few defensive counters to Sub CM Meloetta? If there are no good ones why isn't it suspected
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So a fantastic check to sub Meloetta is choice specs yanmega. In fact I started running yanmega a while back because of how much I hated sub Cress. With the new sound mechanics in 6th gen you dont have to worry about that pesky sub, just click bug buzz and watch Meloetta die. Of course if you have a more defensive team you need a way to keep rocks off of the field. However Yanmega is one thing that laughs at defensive Meloetta.
 
Billtodamax said:
Specs Yanmega doesn't exactly fit on stall.
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True, it was just the thing that came to mind when I thought of bulky physics with subs. As far as defensive checks go you need something that can break the sub or phase it out, and Molk has already covered them all above.
 
hilarious said:
What are a few defensive counters to Sub CM Meloetta? If there are no good ones why isn't it suspected
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I know this has been largely answered already, but Specially Defensive Golbat is actually a decent check as well. Although the possibility of Psyshock makes it a little risky (though it's not hard to scout for), Infiltrator Toxic allows you to poison Meloetta through its substitute and stall it out with Roost.
 
Montsegur said:
So a fantastic check to sub Meloetta is choice specs yanmega. In fact I started running yanmega a while back because of how much I hated sub Cress. With the new sound mechanics in 6th gen you dont have to worry about that pesky sub, just click bug buzz and watch Meloetta die. Of course if you have a more defensive team you need a way to keep rocks off of the field. However Yanmega is one thing that laughs at defensive Meloetta.
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At +1 meloetta survives bug buzz and KOes back with hyper voice o.o
 
Molk said:
Alright, i'm gonna try and be as helpful as possible here.

Honestly the things that check and counter subCM meloetta change depending on what coverage moves its running (although there are a few universal ones). I've run defensive teams myself in the past and i've been able to get around it at least most of the time.

Some defensive/bulky offensive checks that can help out with subCM meloetta include:

Spiritomb (hard counter if resttalk Wow Foul Play, it even has infiltrator to burn/attack from behind the sub lol)
Specially Defensive Drapion (Tbolt/Psychic has major trouble, Hyper Voice can be annoying but you can still take at least one boosted one, phazes Meloetta, hurts it with Knock Off, and can set up Toxic Spikes once grounded poisons are down.
Standard spread Roar Rhyperior (beats both Psyshock Varients and Hyper Voice varients, boosted Psychic hurts quite a bit tho).
SpD Meloetta (takes everything and uses Perish Song to force a switch, no recovery but wish support from Aromatisse or Alomomola is really helpful)
Skuntank (See Drapion, although it exchanges phazing and tspikes for Defog and Sucker Punch)
Escavalier (Not exactly a stall Pokemon but it can work alright i guess, i mean Alomomola is a p. common sight on stall teams and the two pair together fairly well, not to mention Escavalier checks some other annoyances to stall teams, also gives you some offensive presence if you need it).

Hope i helped out at least a bit :x.

another alternative option to Drapion is running scarf w/ pursuit as kind of a gluemon to your defensive team, i've seen that used effectively by a few users before.
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Spiritomb sounds wonderful I can't believe I've been using tomb in uu and haven't thought about him now, many thanks.
 
Why isn't AssVest used more often in RU? I read often that Yanmega is a problem, but a Pokemon I run, AV Regirock, deals easily with it. There might be even better mons for this job, that's just an example.(Soundproof Boufallant + AV Vest?)
 
Ununhexium said:
http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue35/assault-vest

as written by our based leader Molk

to be honest, AV isn't one of those items that can be slapped on Pokemon without it sucking. there are only a few that can use it well
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What the...?
Where did I write "I slap it on some random shit to be the besht!11" I said AV Regirock. A Mon with already 80/100 special defense bulk. Drain Punch, Earthquake Element Punch and Stone Edge(and Drain Punch as far as I recall is a "AV needs it" support move.Like Knock Off, Giga Drain, Dragon Tail etc.)

But what annoys me most that you don't even provide an example :/
 
Regirock isn't the best example but in the link there were plenty of good and bad examples if you took the time to read it. Basically it isn't used as much (by better players) because it isn't that good of an item. It has a specific use but often that use isn't something that works with your team or a specific mon.

For example, while amoongus seems like it would work well with an AV, it relies so much on it's support movepool that it shouldn't use AV. The article does a great simple job of explaining AV use in RU, I'd really encourage you to take a good look at it.
 
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