I notice you said "REexamine," what was the reasoning behind not removing minimize the first time around? (and the reason why it's only a "may")
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Gen 6 Simple Questions, Simple Answers (XY Ubers Edition - read before posting a thread)
- Thread starter Hugendugen
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I said "re" because Evasion clause was tested in Gen 5 and unbanned, that was all. Obviously this meta is different so it could merit examination. "May" is just because we don't have any concrete plans.
Ah, okay. Fair enough.
is Dugtiro a bad pokemon for ubers?
(i cant use MGar for trapping cuz i don't like him, amd i have a MLuc).
(i cant use MGar for trapping cuz i don't like him, amd i have a MLuc).
uh yes dugtrio is kinda bad since it doesn't have anything besides speed. Try gothitelle for trapping purposesDrOxpodmaN said:
i just like him because he was my first shiny and he's monstrously fast
time and again it has been proved that fav=viable. the only thing dugtrio can do is put up rocks using a sash. deo-s can do better, as it's faster, has spikes and other better moves and more bulkDrOxpodmaN said:
I might get all the hate now, and im honestly not trying to be ignorant or anything...
Where would we be able to use mega gengar? If it gets banned from uber, then do we have to go outside of the smogon environment? or a Uber+ tier?
and second what is the porpoise of the uber tier?
Where would we be able to use mega gengar? If it gets banned from uber, then do we have to go outside of the smogon environment? or a Uber+ tier?
and second what is the porpoise of the uber tier?
Uber tier said:
It is my (limited) understanding that it would simply cease to exist in usage. I guess you can use it it doubles if you want.
Essentially it would just be removed from Smogon singles ladder play, like Swagger or Moody. You could still use it in VGC or Battle Spot, or with your friends, though.
Thanks for the reply... Well, tbh I feel a little sad that it's just banned entirely ;/ probally for the better though.
How does suspect test work?
Basically, its a ladder where you are supposed to test something, that might be broken, or unhealthy. Its like a normal ladder, but where there is added another value, coil. Basically its used to determine the players who are qualified to vote. the value is calculated based on you GXE (will raise with you win rate), the number of battles you played and a fixed value, if im not mistaken.
You ladder, you get voting permission
Can someone give me tips or something on how to deal with fucking minimize BP teams? I'm trying to ladder for reqs and I just lost to another one. I led with Yveltal (who knows Taunt and three attacking moves), other guy leads with Drifblim. I taunt, he consumes mental herb and minimizes. Next turn he outspeeds thanks to Unburden and BPs to Scolipede as I taunt and somehow hit. Scolipede consumes Mental Herb. He sets up a sub, I somehow hit taunt again, and then he's forced to struggle for three turns during which I miss every damn time leaving him at 1 HP. He literally sat there killing himself and I still couldn't do anything to him.
So then he passes the sub and the +2 evasion/+6 speed to Espeon who could then set up CMs to its little heart's content and just substitute again any time Yveltal managed to hit. Finally, he goes into Sylveon, still behind a sub, and that's good game, with nothing I could've done about it. Yveltal was the best chance I had at winning and it didn't matter, no matter what I did. The only thing that would've saved me was having been luckier.
IMO if Mega Gengar/sTag creates an uncompetitive "50/50s" and deserves a suspect testing, so do these teams, not only because of the fact that they're using evasion which is inherently luck rather than skill based, but also because things like Driftblim can either be running Sash or Mental Herb and there's no way to predict which it is. Predict wrong and they get up a free minimize, a sub, and/or more minimizes or other boosts.
EDIT: And it's not even necessarily just Evasion that's the problem, it's primarily when evasion is paired with BP because then you get the subs, the speed boosts, and the ability to effortlessly change your weaknesses at will (thanks to +6 speed, Baton Pass will almost always be going first), plus whirlwind/roar won't even necessarily work thanks to Espeon not having any reason to fear BPing in as it's almost always coming in behind a sub and at +2 or higher evasion.
But...in the meantime before the yea or nay on suspecting evasion moves (edit: or evasion BP or whatever), what are some little tweaks/changes I can do to my team so it's still viable in ubers but I have a better chance against these people?
So then he passes the sub and the +2 evasion/+6 speed to Espeon who could then set up CMs to its little heart's content and just substitute again any time Yveltal managed to hit. Finally, he goes into Sylveon, still behind a sub, and that's good game, with nothing I could've done about it. Yveltal was the best chance I had at winning and it didn't matter, no matter what I did. The only thing that would've saved me was having been luckier.
IMO if Mega Gengar/sTag creates an uncompetitive "50/50s" and deserves a suspect testing, so do these teams, not only because of the fact that they're using evasion which is inherently luck rather than skill based, but also because things like Driftblim can either be running Sash or Mental Herb and there's no way to predict which it is. Predict wrong and they get up a free minimize, a sub, and/or more minimizes or other boosts.
EDIT: And it's not even necessarily just Evasion that's the problem, it's primarily when evasion is paired with BP because then you get the subs, the speed boosts, and the ability to effortlessly change your weaknesses at will (thanks to +6 speed, Baton Pass will almost always be going first), plus whirlwind/roar won't even necessarily work thanks to Espeon not having any reason to fear BPing in as it's almost always coming in behind a sub and at +2 or higher evasion.
But...in the meantime before the yea or nay on suspecting evasion moves (edit: or evasion BP or whatever), what are some little tweaks/changes I can do to my team so it's still viable in ubers but I have a better chance against these people?
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thank you that makes sense now i assumed it was MGar/shadow tag would be banned then everyone battles to see if it is balanced
SoulRed12 said:
although i rarely ladder(so my help might be unhelpful), i use unaware clefable with red card for geoxern, which could be used here as well. Also, clear smog, about which i'm unsure whether it would hit behind a sub, is a viable idea. Besides these, i can't think of anything that could help. During the suspect for BP, some players said that they're weak to taunt so they aren't dangerous, and you've just proved that BP teams can adapt easily. Hopefully you'll get advice from someone better, till then gl laddering
I appreciate the post. I don't think I can fit Clefable on my team, but even so, BP teams generally boost up until SP is strong enough to OHKO even with Unaware ignoring the actual SAtk boosts. Also, Clear Smog unfortunately doesn't clear boosts through sub.
Ironically, I think Mega Gengar is perhaps the only decent check to evasion pass, as it can run Taunt, DBond, and Haze, as well as Shadow Ball to hit Espeon on the switch in. Although, it dies immediately to even a fairly weak stored power so yeah, not even that great of a check.
Honestly I don't even want to ladder at all right now because my current spot on the ladder is swarming with these damn teams. I don't want to just use it myself because I feel like that goes against the whole point of laddering for reqs, i.e. using a luck-based cookie-cutter team rather than using a normal team and considering the impact of Mega Gengar/sTag on the meta. Plus, if I end up going against an opposing evasion pass team, I'd probably get drawn into horribly unfun 100+ turn long PP stall wars. I've personally spec'd some.
alright, my inexperience is revealed as i didn't know BP teams used SP(espeon?), and now i'm having second thoughs about gengarite suspect, realising what you said is right. Hopefully, we'll have a BP suspect for ubers soon after the current suspect/complete shadow tag suspect is over.
You could run something with dragon rush...
From bulbapedia (I'm not the type of person who explain stuff with my own words)
If the target has used Minimize, Dragon Rush will never miss and its base power is doubled.
Edit: removing hyperlinks is for fgts ^^
Double edit: after pressing my own hyperlink, it's not only dragon rush (just maybe the most effective)
Minimize's PP changed from 20 to 10. In addition, the moves Stomp, Steamroller,Body Slam, Dragon Rush, Flying Press, and Phantom Force will never miss and their base power is doubled when used against the Minimize user
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#Bannaegislash
#ThatWasNotAQuestion
The Minimize penalty against Stomp/Steamroller/etc. isn't transferred by Baton Pass, so you'd have to hammer Drifblim/Smeargle with it as it comes in or you're stuck using a mediocre (and inaccurate in a few cases) move against a team with +2 Evasion.
No because taunt will miss.
I predicted him to have Focus Sash, thinking he would never stay in against an Yveltal if he didn't have it since not all Yveltal run Taunt. Regardless, Drif wasn't his only minimizer, he had Smeargle as well which likely also ran the move. (I didn't get to find out for sure, because he never needed to go to it.)
Also, I did taunt the switch in (Scolipede), twice, and it still didn't ultimately matter.
And yeah, like haxiom said, Taunt can miss.
You sure? I didn't know that sorry ;(
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