XY OU Good Team Needs Nudging In Right Direction

SomeKidFromJohto

SomeKidFromJohto

Okay, so here's what I'm going for: I've been playing around with several different team builds on showdown, trying to nail down a team I'd like to build for X/Y battle spot, so I need to follow some guidelines. First, I needed to use pokemon I either have/have access to/could get easily, which puts a pretty huge dent in my options. Second, I wanted the team to actually be good while following that restriction. Easier said than done, but while that does limit my options somewhat, I do have quite a number of very good pokemon, and the ability to get many more if I learn I need it. I have every version of the game, and pokebank, so I've got as many options are as open to a cartridge player. But without further ado, my team...

This is what I've come up with:

Gengar (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Disable
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball

Gengar is my signature pokemon on this set, it's the pokemon I tried to develop the rest of the team around. It's function is to be a gigantic thorn in the side of any pokemon that is either slower than gengar, or otherwise makes a wrong move and lets Gengar get behind a sub, where it will fire off disables at threatening moves (I'm looking at you, choice locked ANYTHING), and then either re-sub on a less threatening move or on the switch, then debilitate with burns. The black sludge lets me keep using subs, and often I am able to sub, disable, then sub again and then burn, which effectively wastes enough turns to earn an extra sub from recovery. Shadow Ball is my only attacking move, but it's a good one, only walled by normal and dark types. (One thing I'm thinking of finding room for is a good fighting type to take care of those threats.)

Gardevoir (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Energy Ball
- Healing Wish
- Moonblast
- Psyshock

EDIT: Swapped Memento for Energy Ball, to use gard more offensively against walls such as rotom-w and quagsire. Otherwise, gard plays the same as before.

EDIT: swapped mamoswine for scizor
Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Defog


Charizard (M) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch

EDIT: swapped out fire punch for flare blitz, as suggested. The power does come in handy often enough to definitely warrant the switch.

EDIT: Swapped Quagsire for Rotom-W
Rotom-Wash @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 SpA
Calm Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Fire]

This isn't your typical Rotom set, i modded it a bit to suit what i wanted from it. I went with a calm nature, but EV'd defense, as i wanted him to primarily be a physical wall for talon, but also to check greninja. The SpA EVs are just enough to guarantee a OHKO with thunder on mega pinsir, if needed. I ran a rocky helmet to really punish talon for brave birds, and as an added bit of chip damage on other physical attackers.Thunder Wave rounds out the set mainly as an option to open things up for a Char-X or Hawlucha sweep.

EDIT: Swapped Hydregion for Hawlucha
Hawlucha (M) @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sky Attack
- Acrobatics
- High Jump Kick
- Swords Dance

this hawlucha was so kindly suggested by killbuzzer, and it has worked out for me splendidly. it's pretty straightforward. swords dance to set up when i can afford to, sky attack for a huge hit which also activates unburden w/power herb, and acrobatics for my flying move after that. this thing can wreck teams if it gets +2 Atk and +2 Spe.

Thanks to everyone for all the help!
 
Last edited:
I'd suggest Choice Scarf Hydreigon to outspeed Zard X.

I also suggest you take out the 4 in HP and drop it into Special Defense. I'd also run Flare Blitz over Fire Punch (if you want power) and Dragon Claw over Thunder Punch (STAB).

I also suggest 252 Spe for Mamoswine if you're focus sash. Maybe even Knock Off > Icicle Crash.

I'd probably use Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball over Healing Wish and Memento on Gardevoir.

Nice team, just take some suggestions and see what you get. ^^
 
Hey SomeKidFromJohto cool team. I have some suggestions that I think will make it better.

Your gengar spread is currently extremely suboptimal. The spread you should be running is 28 HP / 148 SpA / 80 SpD / 252 Spe. This spread allows Gengar's substitutes to take 0 SpA Venusaur's Giga Drain and unboosted Clefable's Moonblast.

Move Mamoswine's HP evs into Speed. Mamo isn't exactly meant to be used as a bulky attacker. Jolly isn't necessary but it means that Jolly Breloom's Mach Punch will hit last when using Ice Shard.

I get your reasoning for fire punch but the drop in power is VERY noticible, so I recommend Flare Blitz over Fire Punch, and you can run Roost over EQ and have teammates deal with tran. Boosted Dclaws(change over thunderpunch) hurt it quite a bit anyway.
 
Last edited:
Phy def clefable can absolutely wreck teams. I would suggest it over quagsire because of its higher defenses. magic Guard is the ultimate wall ability. You can run Unaware on clefable also.
 
wow, talk about quick responses... okay, I'll tackle these one at a time.
Shiny Platinum said:
I'd suggest Choice Scarf Hydreigon to outspeed Zard X.

I also suggest you take out the 4 in HP and drop it into Special Defense. I'd also run Flare Blitz over Fire Punch (if you want power) and Dragon Claw over Thunder Punch (STAB).

I also suggest 252 Spe for Mamoswine if you're focus sash. Maybe even Knock Off > Icicle Crash.

I'd probably use Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball over Healing Wish and Memento on Gardevoir.

Nice team, just take some suggestions and see what you get. ^^
Click to expand...

Yeah, some of these EVs are still experimental, so I will definitely try going for speed with Mamoswine to see how that changes it's role... but I will say that the reason i went HP is because I figured ice shard's priority would make up for any lack of speed, as mamoswine doesn't outspeed many offensive threats usually anyway... as far as knock off goes... idk if i want to get rid of icicle spear, i love the sub breaking capabilities and the ability to break sturdy/multiscale. But as for gardevoir, it's primary purpose is healing wish and memento, as a suicide momentum grabber. It's not usually going to be attacking if I can help it, so I just stuck it's strongest STABs on it just in case.

The Bravest Bird said:
On mobile so this isnt lookin fancy

I get your reasoning for zard x but it REALLY needs flare blitz to clinch some kos, such as a 2hko on phydef unaware fable. You can run roost over eq to offset recoil as boosted dclaws hurt

Your gengar needs a different ev spread its really suboptimal rn

I rlly cant finish this rn ill just rate this l8r
edit: writing right now
Click to expand...

Yeah, I actually struggled with that choice for a while... basically though, I found that if I control the flow of the match properly, then I either won't need the immediate power, or I can just boost for it with DD. This one's just a matter of preference at the end of the day, and while the lack of flare blitz MIGHT cost me a match or two, I've never been in a position where I absolutely needed it, you know? Unaware clefable would certainly be a problem, though, so if it starts giving me trouble, I may still decide to switch... I'll have to let that decision come from how often I expect to see that particular threat.

As far as gengar's EVs, though, I'm pretty comfortable with it. I gave it and odd number HP for maximum subs, and max speed to ensure it's subs get up. The rest i put into special attack to get a few more points of damage with shadow ball, but gengar's main job is putting up subs, disabling the target's most threatening attack, and then burning them with WoW, so I don't see how any other EV spread would actually work there.

killbuzzer said:
Phy def clefable can absolutely wreck teams. I would suggest it over quagsire because of its higher defenses. magic Guard is the ultimate wall ability. You can run Unaware on clefable also.
Click to expand...

I actually didn't even think of clefable... which is funny, considering I actually have a physically defensive unaware clefable. Somehow, I got it into my head that I needed a water type for some reason, so I just completely spaced on Fable.... I'll definitely switch it into a few games, see what I can change up. Thanks for that suggestion.

I must say, I'm a bit overwhelmed at the immediate response, guys. Thanks a lot, I really mean that. I'll definitely take all of your suggestions into consideration and see if I can't finally work the kinks out of my team. Thanks again, I can't say that enough... you guys rock!
 
The Bravest Bird said:
Hey SomeKidFromJohto cool team. I have some suggestions that I think will make it better.

Your gengar spread is currently extremely suboptimal. The spread you should be running is 28 HP / 148 SpA / 80 SpD / 252 Spe. This spread allows Gengar's substitutes to take 0 SpA Venusaur's Giga Drain and unboosted Clefable's Moonblast.

Move Mamoswine's HP evs into Speed. Mamo isn't exactly meant to be used as a bulky attacker. Jolly isn't necessary but it means that Jolly Breloom's Mach Punch will hit last when using Ice Shard.

I get your reasoning for fire punch but the drop in power is VERY noticible, so I recommend Flare Blitz over Fire Punch, and you can run Roost over EQ and have teammates deal with tran. Boosted Dclaws(change over thunderpunch) hurt it quite a bit anyway.
Click to expand...

Yeah, after trying it, mamo's ev's should be geared more toward speed, it does give it some extra effectiveness, that was definitely an oversight on my part. As far as char X goes... i really do get the thought behind flare blitz... i ran it and fire punch back to back at first to test each, and arrived at the conclusion that there's not much difference after a boost, usually... but for immediate offense, maybe i SHOULD just run flare blitz, as i can heal off the recoil with gard's healing wish if i need. Plus, if i did it that way, i wouldn't need to run roost, as i really want more coverage on zard, and just don't feel that roost justifies a moveslot over an attack. As far as the dragon claw/thunderpunch option, i never actually considered dragon claw, because i needed more super effective coverage on charizard rather than pure STAB. Super effective thunderpunches hit harder than neutral dragon claws, and that's what i feel i need. If i need a strong dragon attack, i'll go with hydreigon's draco meteor.

As far as gengar is concerned though... i'm really not sure that new EV spread is going to help it do it's job better... i still think having larger subs is a good idea, as gengar has a high special attack anyway, and even though shadow ball won't be hitting THAT hard, it's enough when you add on the burn damage over all the extra turns i'm hiding behind a sub and healing with black sludge. I'll try that spread out, but i'm skeptical about it.

thanks for the suggestions, you've given me a lot to think about.

as of now, the changes i've got are:
-put mamoswine's HP EVs into Spe, and possibly run jolly nature.
-replace fire punch with flare blitz, as i can use gard to heal if i need
-switch out quagsire for clefable

Some other things to consider:
-re-evaluate gengar's EVs, to see if more special attack increases it's overall effectiveness
-run roost on char X to heal flare blitz recoil and stay in with my DD boosts

I'll run some tests on these changes and see what I think. Thanks a lot for all the help so far, everyone!
 
SomeKidFromJohto said:
wow, talk about quick responses... okay, I'll tackle these one at a time.


Yeah, some of these EVs are still experimental, so I will definitely try going for speed with Mamoswine to see how that changes it's role... but I will say that the reason i went HP is because I figured ice shard's priority would make up for any lack of speed, as mamoswine doesn't outspeed many offensive threats usually anyway... as far as knock off goes... idk if i want to get rid of icicle spear, i love the sub breaking capabilities and the ability to break sturdy/multiscale. But as for gardevoir, it's primary purpose is healing wish and memento, as a suicide momentum grabber. It's not usually going to be attacking if I can help it, so I just stuck it's strongest STABs on it just in case.



Yeah, I actually struggled with that choice for a while... basically though, I found that if I control the flow of the match properly, then I either won't need the immediate power, or I can just boost for it with DD. This one's just a matter of preference at the end of the day, and while the lack of flare blitz MIGHT cost me a match or two, I've never been in a position where I absolutely needed it, you know? Unaware clefable would certainly be a problem, though, so if it starts giving me trouble, I may still decide to switch... I'll have to let that decision come from how often I expect to see that particular threat.

As far as gengar's EVs, though, I'm pretty comfortable with it. I gave it and odd number HP for maximum subs, and max speed to ensure it's subs get up. The rest i put into special attack to get a few more points of damage with shadow ball, but gengar's main job is putting up subs, disabling the target's most threatening attack, and then burning them with WoW, so I don't see how any other EV spread would actually work there.



I actually didn't even think of clefable... which is funny, considering I actually have a physically defensive unaware clefable. Somehow, I got it into my head that I needed a water type for some reason, so I just completely spaced on Fable.... I'll definitely switch it into a few games, see what I can change up. Thanks for that suggestion.

I must say, I'm a bit overwhelmed at the immediate response, guys. Thanks a lot, I really mean that. I'll definitely take all of your suggestions into consideration and see if I can't finally work the kinks out of my team. Thanks again, I can't say that enough... you guys rock!
Click to expand...
You are welcome. I have gotten so many ragequits when clefable gets up to +3 using calm mind. She is walled by heatran though. Clefable can stall extremely easily with Magic Guard.
 
Okay, after doing some more testing, I'm starting to think that hydreigon is letting me down. It hits like a cannon, sure, but it just seems to be a magnet for the opponent to build momentum on. I did switch out quagsire for clefable, which is working very well, and i also replaced fire punch with flare blitz on mega char-x for the power boost, which has actually gotten me out of a few jams. But now it feels like hydregion is out of place on this team, so I need something that can build MY momentum instead of giving some to my opponent. I really think that a strong fighting type would be a good fit for my team... so maybe conkeldurr? I could go for a life orb/sheer force set... Heck, maybe even hawlucha would be a good fit, to maintain the same number of ground-immune pokes on my team. Any thoughts would be appreciated, and don't feel restricted to those two, i'm just brainstorming right now. Thanks in advance!
 
i would suggest mandibuzz over hydreigon as you need a defogger to help your zard set up. if you want the hawlucha which you seem really fond of i would swap out hydreigon for hawlucha and clefable for a defogger which i would be using mandibuzz
 
Last edited:
Huddo48 said:
i would suggest mandibuzz over hydreigon as you need a defogger to help your zard set up. if you want the hawlucha which you seem really fond of i would swap out hydreigon for hawlucha and clefable for a defogger which i would be using mandibuzz
Click to expand...

funny you mention that... I was toying around with swapping clefable for defensive scizor w/defog, because I noticed the same problem. thanks for the heads-up, anyway, though.
 
That's a pretty awesome Hawlucha sweep. I just feel like Hawlucha is an extremely underrated threat this gen. His ability, moveset , and typing make him incredible. I'm glad that he worked out for you.
 
So, after making some adjustments based on people's suggestions, I've got a new lineup that seems like it'll be a lot more effective, except for the fact that I feel pretty vulnerable to bulky waters, or stall in general. I think one last adjustment is necessary to plug up that hole in my team, but I'm not sure which pokemon to modify/replace to get that job done. I think maybe I should replace Mamoswine, but I'm not sure. Any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I had a few ideas along those lines, so I'd also like to hear people's thoughts on which of these changes would be appropriate:
-replacing gardevoir's memento with thunderbolt or energy ball, for breaking through the aforementioned bulky waters
-replacing mamoswine with unaware clefable
-replacing mamoswine with the hydregion i previously switched out

Don't feel limited to commenting on those ideas though, if you think you've got a better idea, I'd love to hear it. Thanks again, guys.

Just for reference, here's where my team is now:

Gengar (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Disable
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball

Gardevoir (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Memento
- Healing Wish

Hawlucha (M) @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Sky Attack
- High Jump Kick
- Swords Dance

Charizard (M) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Dance
- Thunder Punch
- Earthquake

Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Defog

Mamoswine (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Spear
- Stealth Rock
 
SomeKidFromJohto said:
So, after making some adjustments based on people's suggestions, I've got a new lineup that seems like it'll be a lot more effective, except for the fact that I feel pretty vulnerable to bulky waters, or stall in general. I think one last adjustment is necessary to plug up that hole in my team, but I'm not sure which pokemon to modify/replace to get that job done. I think maybe I should replace Mamoswine, but I'm not sure. Any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I had a few ideas along those lines, so I'd also like to hear people's thoughts on which of these changes would be appropriate:
-replacing gardevoir's memento with thunderbolt or energy ball, for breaking through the aforementioned bulky waters
-replacing mamoswine with unaware clefable
-replacing mamoswine with the hydregion i previously switched out

Don't feel limited to commenting on those ideas though, if you think you've got a better idea, I'd love to hear it. Thanks again, guys.

Just for reference, here's where my team is now:

Gengar (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Disable
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball

Gardevoir (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Memento
- Healing Wish

Hawlucha (M) @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Sky Attack
- High Jump Kick
- Swords Dance

Charizard (M) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Dance
- Thunder Punch
- Earthquake

Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Defog

Mamoswine (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Spear
- Stealth Rock
Click to expand...
I'd use Dragon Claw/Outrage over Thunderpunch on zard X and Thunderbolt + Shadow Ball over Memento + Healing Wish on Scarf Gardevoir. Really amazing team and good luck!
 
Shiny Platinum said:
I'd use Dragon Claw/Outrage over Thunderpunch on zard X and Thunderbolt + Shadow Ball over Memento + Healing Wish on Scarf Gardevoir. Really amazing team and good luck!
Click to expand...

A lot of people have suggested DClaw/Outrage over thunderpunch on my zard-X, but I just don't feel comfortable giving up what is at this point my only electric attack... plus, a super-effective thunderpunch is stronger than a neutral DClaw, and I just feel like I need the coverage. I am however, probably going to switch out memento for thunderbolt on gardevoir, so maybe i'll reconsider once i have an alternative electric move. Thanks a lot for the ideas!
 
If you switch Momento on Garde, I'd say go with Energy Ball, as the two primary bulky waters(Quag and Rotom-W) could care less about Thunderbolt.

Only other thing is change the 4 HP EVs, especially on Zard/Mamo, as it gives you that evil even number vs Rocks.
 
A Random Scrub said:
If you switch Momento on Garde, I'd say go with Energy Ball, as the two primary bulky waters(Quag and Rotom-W) could care less about Thunderbolt.

Only other thing is change the 4 HP EVs, especially on Zard/Mamo, as it gives you that evil even number vs Rocks.
Click to expand...

yeah, i was starting to lean toward energy ball, myself, for pretty much those exact reasons. I ran into a quag that made my life miserable, and really regretted not having energy ball. oh, and i actually decided to switch mamoswine out for rotom-wash, as i realized i was ridiculously vulnerable to talonflame. And yeah, i should've noticed that about the HP, I'm just so used to dumping leftover EVs there lol

Here's a vid where quag almost beat me: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-153280980

On the bright side though, hawlucha has really been proving itself, can't believe i never used one before!
 
I think I've got my team to a pretty good place right now, thanks a lot for the input everyone! Here are some of my more entertaining wins, to show off the keys of my team.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-153286844
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-153288691
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-153293101

I'm still open to input for improvement though, so feel free to offer any advice if you see something I can still improve on. Thanks a lot, everyone!
 
Last edited:
Maybe if Hawlucha is providing enough power you.can switch out SD for stone edge as it allows you to hit things like landorus, thundurus, zapdos, and other pokes that you might have problems with.
 
killbuzzer said:
Maybe if Hawlucha is providing enough power you.can switch out SD for stone edge as it allows you to hit things like landorus, thundurus, zapdos, and other pokes that you might have problems with.
Click to expand...

I could try that out, yeah. Usually I've found that those aren't the pokes i get the most problems from, though. I've found that I mainly have trouble with talonflame and greninja, both of which are fast enough to outspeed and get kills on hawl, and a bunch of my other team members, including gengar and gardevoir, although gard could potentially beat gren if i slap it with a super effective hit. These two in particular are why i swapped in rotom-W, although even with him as a buffer, i still struggle a bit against those threats, in that even if I beat them, it usually costs me a pokemon, and momentum. Sometimes I can recover that with gard's healing wish, but it's tricky. I've been pondering what kind of switch i could make to help deal with them, and haven't come up with anything that'd fit well into my team, so any ideas on that would be spectacular, thanks!
 
Instead of mamoswine, try thundurus as an anti lead. He can provide priority paralysis support for Hawlucha. Once threats like greninja and talonflame are taken out or paralyzed, bring hawl in and sweep. Run this.
Thundurus Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave
 
Well, I already swapped Mamo for scizor, but I suppose i could swap out rotom. The only problem is actually getting myself a usable 5-6iv thundurus in game... well, I'll test it first to see if i REALLY need it, then i'll figure out how to get one lol.

P.S. I'm gonna update my original post to reflect my current team, as I forgot to do that.
 
killbuzzer said:
OK
I didn't realize this was an in game team. I just feel like thundurus provides.a lot more utility than mamo or Rotom.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm sure it would. And even though it'd be hard to get in game, i'm sure i could manage to get one somehow, if i REALLY needed one. Thanks for all the help, especially suggesting hawlucha, I never would've thought of him on my own.

P.S. I had to share this: 6-0 hawlucha sweep! http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-153702620
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top