Cacturne (QC 0/3)

CanadianWifier

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
Overview
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cacturne.gif

  • Is a cactus
  • Powerful Mixed Attacker
  • Too slow to outright sweep, but fast enough to break walls.
  • Water Absorb gives it some cool switch-in opportunities vs bulky waters like Seis.
  • Access to priority in Sucker Punch allows it to heavily damage faster threats.
  • Resists/Immune to many common priorities in NU [Sucker Punch, Aqua Jet]
  • Immunity specifically to scald is amazing for an offensive pokemon #banscald

Mixed Attacker
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name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Dark Pulse
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Substitute
ability: Water Absorb
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
evs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
nature: Rash

Moves
========
  • Giga Drain allows it to beat up on Water-types it switches in on and keep itself healthy after Substitute/ Lifeorb Damage.
  • Dark Pulse used as a secondary STAB, has that juicy chance to flinch walls that are slower.
  • Sucker Punch to hit frail offensive things such as Archeops and Swellow
  • Sub to avoid status, and take advantage of free switches it creates. Also Sucker Punch from behind Subs is god-like.
  • Destiny bond can be used over Substitute as a catch-all for faster threats and defensive mons you'd like removed.

Set Details
========
  • Maximize the attacking stat that has the more reliable moves.
  • The SpAtk EVs allow you to 2HKO Vileplume with Dark Pulse.
  • Max Speed to try to maximize the number of things you can hit as hard as possible without resorting to Sucker Punch.
  • Water absorb allows you to switch in on bulky waters like Seismitoad or Lanturn without worrying about scald burns :]

Usage Tips
========
  • Many opponents will expect a physical Cacturne, so keep this in mind and try to use it to your advantage.
  • Generally Giga Drain is the most spammable move, despite it being weaker, as it recovers HP each turn.
  • Try to get up a Substitute as soon as possible, it makes Cacturne a much bigger threat.
Team Options
==========
  • Pair with something that prefers Vileplume+Seismitoad cores broken down, as Cacturne can do that quite well. Examples of this are Hariyama, Gurdurr, Feraligatr, and pretty much any electric type.
  • Spiritomb is a nice partner for this set as it can come in on a lot of Fighting and Flying types that force Cacturne out.

Spikes Lead
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name: Spikes Lead
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Bullet Seed
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Destiny Bond / Counter / Encore
ability: Sand Veil
item: Focus Sash
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
nature: Jolly

Moves
========
  • Spike stacking is the point of this set, so we have spikes.
  • Bullet Seed allows you to beat opposing Lead Omastar who try to stake hazards against you, and it also prevents you from being taunt bait.
  • Sucker punch can be used to play mindgames vs faster frail pokemon and get off huge damage on a Cryogonal's Rapid Spin or Freeze Dry.
  • Destiny Bond allows it to act a lot like Qwilfish and Froslass as a Spikes lead and claim a kill once it gets down to sash.
  • Encore can be used to force switches vs other Hazard setters / Defensive mons which grants you more layers of spikes.
  • Counter can be used with Focus Sash to claim a quick kill if you predict an attack.

Set Details
========
  • Focus Sash guarantees at least one layer of Spikes
  • Max speed to try to maximize the number of Spikes it can set up
  • Max attack allows it to kill Lead Omastar with only two seeds from Bullet Seed.
Usage Tips
========
  • Use it as a lead on a hyper offence team to get a quick kill + some early hazards
  • If you see opposing Omastar Leads, click Bullet Seed to limit hazards on your side of the field.
  • You can use Sucker Punch on opposing Cryogonal if they come in and try to Rapid Spin on you.

Team Options
========
  • Hyper offence enjoys the spike support, so try to pair it with offensive pokemon that can make use of the extra damage on everything. Examples include Offensive Mespirit, Feraligatr, Electivire, Magmortar, Gurdurr, etc.
  • Pawniard can be used along side it to discourage Defogging.
  • Spiritomb once again acts as a great partner as it can spinblock vs the entire tier.

Swords Dance
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name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Seed Bomb
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Drain Punch
ability: Water Absorb
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
nature: Adamant

Moves
========
  • Swords Dance quickly turns Cacturne into a huge offensive threat.
  • Seed Bomb is the most reliable STAB, as it isn't reliant on what the opponent uses.
  • Sucker Punch hits anything faster very hard at +2, making Cacturne difficult to revenge kill.
  • Drain Punch is very handy for walls such as Probopass, Audino, or Lickilicky, and especially Ferroseed, who would otherwise wall you. It also allows you to recover health as priority/Life Orb racks up.

Set Details
========
  • Max Attack to hurt things.
  • Max Speed to make you as un-reliant as possible on sucker punch
  • Adamant nature adds a very noticeable boost in power, and due to being very reliant on Sucker Punch it's the best nature to go with.

Usage Tips
========
  • Don't try to set-up / bring it in until most things are worn down.
  • Using it with Sticky Web support is highly recommended.
  • Switching in on water types is the best way to set up, as you can generally Swords Dance as they switch.
  • Try to avoid scenarios which force you into using Sucker Punch; eg, predicting a switch out to a faster mon and using a STAB move, etc.

Team Options
========
  • Hazard support helps a lot: Sticky Web could potentially allow for an easier sweep, while Spikes and Stealth Rock helps Cacturne nab many OHKOs it wouldn't otherwise get.
  • Qwilfish is a great partner for this set as it synergizes nicely and provides the needed spike support.
  • Spiritomb is a nice partner for this set as it can come in on a lot of Fighting / Flying types that force Cacturne to switch.

Other Options
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  • You can opt to run Sand Veil over Water Absorb to gain access to moves like Focus Punch, Bullet Seed, and Encore on the Swords Dance set, but generally it's not worth giving up Water Immunity.
  • Nasty Plot can also work, but outclassed by other NP users due to low speed and no Special Priority
  • Poison Jab is an option on the SD set to hit Fairy types hard, but it forces you to either drop a STAB, or be walled by Ferroseed
Checks & Counters
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**Fairy Types** Especially Togetic can come in vs any set. It either blows away spikes from the lead set, walls the SD set, or scares out the Mixed Attacker.
**Poison Types** Especially bulky one such as Weezing, Dragalge, and Garboder can switch in with ease against the SD set and threaten out Cacturne with their STAB. Dragalge in particular can switch-in vs any set.
**Spiritomb** Spiritomb can switch-in vs the SD set and burn it even through the Substitute with Infiltrator.
**Fighting types** Bulkier Fighting types such as Gurdurr can switch in, kill with Mach Punch, or even take a hit and kill with Drain Punch.
**Faster Pokemon** Faster pokemon such as Sneasel, Sawk, Primape, and anything else that resists Sucker Punch can threaten out Cacturne with the threat of a powerful attack.
 
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spikes qwilfish is the perfect partner for the SD set as it has perfect sinergy and sets lovely spikes. I'd also mention/slash substitute n_n
 
Mention sand abuse in other options! Running Sand Veil allows Cacturne to use Encore and Bullet Seed, which are both very useful moves on SD sets.
 
Hmmm, do you think it's worth running Sand Veil on the Spikes set to gain access to Encore and Bullet Seed?
Bullet Seed would allow it to beat Lead Omastar, and Encore can force switches to get you more spiiikes
thoughts?
 
Mention Counter somewhere in the Spikes set (I would mention it in Moves personally) nice to take a physical hit and just OHKO something lol
 
I'd move SD to last in set order.

I tried SD a few weeks ago, and I thought it was really weak. Most Water-types can still bone it because it's super frail, and offensive Water-types all have some way to hit it hard (barring like the unseen Water/Dark coverage Feraligatr). It isn't bad, which is why I still think it deserves a set, but it's really hard to use effectively and just really not as strong of a set as the others.

Mention that it absolutely needs Drain Punch on SD if it doesn't want to get superboned by Ferroseed. It does hit all of the things you currently have listed, but none are as important as Ferroseed.

Because of how badly it needs Drain Punch, I wouldn't even bother mentioning Sub. It just doesn't have the room for it.

I'd cut the mention of Leftovers on the first set. Yes, LO recoil on top of Sub is annoying, but it doesn't matter nearly as much with Giga Drain. Plus, you only really use Sub vs. bulkier teams that give you the opportunity to do so. Those teams are probably going to be pretty weak to Cacturne anyways, so you can just spam attacks and kill shit once you get the Sub up, and you won't need to set it up a lot against them. Against offensive teams, the main reason Cacturne will come out will be 1. taking advantage of the Water immunity or 2. to smack something hard with Sucker Punch.

I've only skimmed this at this point, but I caught a mention of why it runs max Speed EVs. You don't need to mention that unless there is something specific you need to outspeed with max EVs. Otherwise, it should be a given that you're running max Speed because it's an offensive Pokemon that needs the investment. Same goes for any max stat. I also saw that you said it needs max SpA to 2HKO Vileplume with Dark Pulse; this is the exact type of situation where this it's ok to say why you'd want to run max in a stat. You're telling the reader that there is a specific reason, so it's ok to do it.

Don't compare it to Shiftry. I know it makes sense to do it, but Shiftry isn't NU anymore, and newer users will wonder what the fuck you're talking about. You should only compare Pokemon if they're both in NU (SD Samurott vs. SD Feraligatr would be ok, but EKiller Arceus and BD Linoone would not be).

Under Team Options, list specific Pokemon. You mention "things that hate Viletoed/things that can take on Fighting/Flyings," but you don't offer any specific examples.

In SD's Set Details, mention that you can afford to use Adamant because you will be relying quite a bit on Sucker Punch. Also don't say that LO turns 2HKOs into OHKOs unless you have examples.

In general, you could afford to offer more details. You don't really describe how to play the sets very well under Usage Tips. You don't offer too many examples either. Work on fine-tuning, yeah?
 
i feel like sucker punch is mandatory on the spikes set since it forces interestng mind games with frailer pokemon and allows cacturne to do some nice damage if its down to the sash against a faster opponent. i think the 3rd and 4th moveslots can be merged together
 
kk gonna continue implementing better descriptions for stuff tomorrow particularly the usage tips and set descriptions; been QCing for like 7 hours and I'm p done :\

I'm not convinced mind games are worth losing a very useful move on the spikes set, though. Maybe I can slash it over Destiny Bond? I just fine Encore and Counter to be more useful than the odd time where you could get off 50% to somethings lead. I'm pretty neutral to the idea though, so I can go either way.


Edit nevermind, I realised it'd be able to prevent cryo from spinning so it's added
 
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I think Destiny Bond and Counter should at least be merged since they both kind of do the same thing which is lure something in and kill it. DBond is generally more reliable so it should be slashed first but Counter is helpful against faster mons. Not sure if Encore is really necessary since Grass STAB can threaten out SRers + Accelgor exists but I'll leave that up to you.

I haven't used the mixed set too extensively but I liked using Destiny Bond > Substitute since it's a nice catch-all for all of its checks like Dragalge, Togetic, etc. I'd put that in Moves.

Mention Poison Jab in OO (specifically for the SD set) for Fairies.

You should also mention its Scald immunity somewhere imo because that kicks ass n_n
 
mmmk, everything is implemented. redy for more roasting by the QC team :]

ps : Can anyone think of more check/counter to this thing, I feel there should be more than there is.
 
A big generic check is anything that outpaces it which is actually a lot, while maintaining enough bulk to take a hit from a sucker punch.
Also priority in the form of mach punch and ice punch is also a check/counter because it forces cacturne to go for sucker or be killed and fighting resists dark so sucker wont be doing much, while ice shard in sneasel outpaces anyways and Piloswine has enough bulk to take a sucker.
Also if you really want to expand the C&C a bit you could say physical walls, ofc a lot of good physical walls fall under the types you have listed above so if you want to expand with this fine, otherwise I wouldnt say its necessary.
 
I wouldn't say Piloswine is a C&C at all, as it either dies to a +2 Seed Bomb, or gets eaten alive by a Giga Drain. Others are implemented
 
will someone give this guy a qc check or two so he'll stop bitching to me about how no one want to post on his shitty thread
 
Overview
  • I wouldn't say it's too slow to sweep considering it has SD + Sucker. I'd reword that point to say it tends to be overreliant on SP vs faster stuff which can be taken advantage of
  • Mention it's frail too which makes it difficult to set up + adds to overreliance on SP
Team Options
  • Mixed and SD: Add Poison-types as partners (not just Qwil!) They're really good for switching into Fighters and Togetic which are hard checks to both sets.
  • Spikes: Add some offensive SRers too like Mesprit and Probopass since Cacturne can't learn it.
Checks and Counters
  • The explanations could use a little more depth. For example you should list more than just Togetic under Fairies: Granbull checks the SD set and Slurpuff is a good offensive check. Poison-types also need some work: mention that Weezing takes a ton from Dark Pulse and that Dragalge doesn't really appreciate a +2 Sucker Punch (even phys def variants). Garbodor on the other hand only soft-checks both sets as DPulse 2HKOes and boosted SP does a shitton.
 
Bullet Seed isn't really needed on the spikes set now that Omastar is gone. Just replace it with Seed Bomb or something and slash Water Absorb before Sand Veil as there is no 100% needed move which is incompatible with it.
 
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