Setting up on HO is hard enough unless you're in on something that LITERALLY cannot touch you, and most HO teams don't carry those things.
Well you could run into a Krook choice locked into EarthQ, but that would be a pretty bloody bad play to lock yourself into EarthQ with a Hawlucha around lol.Setting up on HO is hard enough unless you're in on something that LITERALLY cannot touch you, and most HO teams don't carry those things.
If you use SubSD though, setting up is so much easier since you essentially get a free Swords Dance behind the substitute, and you're not vulnerable to status behind the Sub either (the only problem is that you need two Subs and/or prior damage to activate the Sitrus Berry). I agree with most of what you said though, as Unburden forcing you to only have one chance to sweep is very unfortunate and we have much more priority than when it was first banned with two common Ice Shard users, Lucario and Arcanine with Extremespeed, Sableye with priority Will-o-wisp, and Fletchinder. Like with Aegislash in OU, Hawlucha can't do anything at all with Doublade on the other team and needs support to lure it out and damage it sufficiently.Both Lucario and Hawlucha really sweep consistently once they set up but often I find that Lucario is better. Hawlucha needing 2 turns to fully set up proves to be an nuisance since applying offensive pressure can pretty much gurantee you not getting the 2 free turns and Hawlucha is kinda weak without the SD because unlike Luke it can't hold a boosting item and it only has a passable base 92 atk. Due to Unburden's nature you really only get 1 chance to sweep against fast offensive teams which is bad because it is very matchup dependent. You pretty much can't sweep without getting rid of opposing Fletchinder, Sableye or Doublade, but Lucario can at least run a different moveset to rid of its usual checks (i.e. Bullet Punch for Sableye and Aerodactyl, Ice Punch for Gligar and Queen) and that always keep me on edge when facing opposing Lukes. Overall I found Lucario more consistent over Hawlucha as a late game sweeper despite its suspectibility to getting LO stalled, its versatility, extra power and ability to set up multiple times in a match makes it a better cleaner than Lucha.
That is just me tho :^]
Except vsing Balanced teams, that SubSD set can be a fair bit of a set back in that now in order to get the Undburden sweep, you essentially have to get down to at least 75% HP.
Consider the following scenario:
Hawlucha comes in on something it forces out
Slowbro is switched into Lucha, lucha uses sub
Lucha SDs, Slowbro breaks sub.
Lucha Subs again for Sitrus ending up at 75% (without SR), Slowbro breaks sub
Lucha fails to OHKO besides a crit and Slowbro now has a very high chance of taking it out:
0 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 218-260 (72.9 - 86.9%)
There are quite a few mons who can stop a hawlucha sweep, granted at the cost of a fair deal of HP, but still quite workable. I guess I'll need to see more late game sweeps though by it where it thrives before I can come to a real conclusion though.
Alternatively, Hawlucha SD's twice because it can live a Psyshock from full HP as you showed, get back to around 40-50% with Sitrus and then Slowbro risks dying with some prior damage:
+4 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 315-372 (79.9 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after some prior damage
And unless you have priority, you pretty much lost at that point because +4/+2 Hawlucha is not something to mess with.
hawlucha sets up on so much idk what you're talking about. any choice locked mon into a shit move like victini u-turn (yes this is a realistic scenario if you run a memento mon), mienshao hjk scarf even, hydra -2 dm, dugtrio, and a shit ton of other stuff. what's more, with sub sitrus (or sub liechi if you wanna get spooky) can be brought in as a revenge killer to slower shit that it threatens with hjk / sky attack (like, chandelure / nidoking / band hera / anything else you'd want to keep), sub up, and get free set up turns. it really is so easy to set up, and if you get one turn of set-up you're basically broken.
to me this is in no way a "i could go either way case". hawlucha is one of the most broken things we've suspected
Yeah, like Talonflame in OU Hawlucha in UU has high BP moves backed up by speed, which is pretty much why it is so threatening.
Togekiss, Quagsire, Vaporeon, Smeargle, and Diancie are all almost guaranteed to drop, while Espeon is a possibility. Scolipede is also going to drop to BL.What are some Pokemon that might come OU to UU? Just curious.