Great attack stats, can break through skarmory, pretty good spD and good typing, you can switch on some EQs, and if you get toxiced...you can pretty much OHKO everything in the game
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OU ADV OU Viability Ranking and Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter McMeghan
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Great attack stats, can break through skarmory, pretty good spD and good typing, you can switch on some EQs, and if you get toxiced...you can pretty much OHKO everything in the game
This is what I don't get.
Great Attack stat: Almost all the fully-evolved Fighting types have similar Attack stats. Blaziken, Breloom, Hariyama, Hitmonlee, Machamp, Medicham... they all hit hard.
Can break Skarmory: It's the Fighting type that makes this possible. All of them can break Skarm.
Decent SpD: Hariyama, the Hitmons, Machamp. Poliwrath too.
Guts: Machamp and Hariyama both get it too.
So what makes Heracross so much better than the rest? Is it, as I previously wondered, Megahorn for Psychics?
Heracross has a few things other things that separate it from the other Fighters.
Fighting is a great type, but it has pretty much no powerful, reliable STAB attacks, which is why Megahorn is nice, not only for Psychics. The fact that it threatens them is a nice bonus but it's really the reliability + power that makes it a nice thing to have.
Also, the only Fighting type you mentioned that's faster than Heracross is Hitmonlee which isn't exactly viable, giving it an advantage over every other while still combining all of those advantages.
Not to mention Heracross learns Swords Dance unlike most fighters, has decent speed to threaten defensive Celebi with the OHKO, and has many viable sets, such as CB, sub salac reversal, non-reversal (rock slide) sub salac, resttalk, etc., which may require sacrificing a pokemon or two to scout out (ex. swords dance on Skarm switch in, Focus Punch OHKOs Skarm before Skarm can phaze Heracross out). Blaziken can also do what Heracross does, breaking SkarmBliss cores and Celebi, but Heracross also threatens bulky waters with Stab Megahorn (Blaziken has no 120+ physical base stab bar Focus Punch, which isn't as spammable) and has better overall bulk than Blaziken.
Because he is the fight-pokemon with more space in the current metagame. He can break the threats more effectively, and Guts is really good. Medicham is good also
Eh, 50-50. I've been using Heracross a bit, and I know know why he's so successful. The sheer power he gains from a Choice Band, Guts and/or a Swords Dance, allow him to muscle through every major Physical wall. Megahorn is a big reason, as it has 120 BP, which is gigantic in this meta, and hits neutrally on Bulky Waters like Swampert. (Plus it more or less blows away Gengar and Salamence, two of the most common mons that resist his STAB: Zapdos dies to Rock Slide, Gyarados is annoying but easy to remove and or wear down, no-one uses Weezing (not even ranked lol).). 85 Speed is also a nice benchmark to hit, as it now outruns most Physical Walls (even Max Speed Skarm) and with a positive nature outruns Jolly Gyarados and standard Zapdos, which is crucial for a 2HKO. Medicham is good and all, as probably the most devastating attacker, but the lack of a great secondary STAB, and that speed being a few notches lower than Hera's holds it back, plus while Hera can usually get up a Sub or Dance, then sweep, Medicham is too frail to do that: CB is its only option.
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subpar typing? fight resist, ground immunity, amazing physical bulk that a few rock slides arent going to bust through especially with willowisps being thrown around. it can also haze to get rid of boosts in a pinch (restalk wisp haze outright 6-0es most physical offense teams)... it can also run quite a potent offensive set with sludge bomb/fire blast/hp fight/boom.
While the poison typing isnt the best typing in the world, the high defense stat, and nice movepool makes it a great switch in to most heracross and most physical pokemon in general. Its not set up bait as long as it has haze so hera has a tough time setting up on it. Its levitate removes one of its common weaknesses. It can use a combination of wilo + pain split to wear down any physical threat lacking sub not named hera. It can hit most pokemon with a combo of fire blast + sludge bomb (tbolt too) so steel types cant switch in. It has cool things like memento and destiny bond which could help set another poke in your team up for a sweep. Dont know why its not used more when psychic moves are really only seen from starmie, claydol, and celebi and it has something for all three.
Weezing should be ranked btw. Fucking beast mon.
to be honest, despite its nice bulk and shit, weezing takes boosted neutral physical hits (and even cb megahorn) like a little bitch thanks to its relatively low hp.
that paired with sand and its terrible speed makes it one of the less favorable picks when seeking out a "physical wall"
that paired with sand and its terrible speed makes it one of the less favorable picks when seeking out a "physical wall"
I meant it's not on Triangles' rankings a couple of pages back. Plus even with that large Defense the low HP means that sand and boosted neutral hits wear it down, especially as it relies on Leftovers and ResTalk for recovery (which limits it to Sludge Bomb and WoW), making it unsuitable for Stall teams. Even though Psychic is only seen on 3 mons, Celebi and Starmie are both common and very good in the ADV metagame, and only Offensive Weezing (which again is worn down by Physical Offensive teams, especially those with Tar) can really threaten them (Defensive Weezing doesn't have the movepool: Sludge Bomb is taken well enough by both and they can switch out to nullify burns), while they both outspeed Weezing easily.
Okay maybe I didn't get my point across there: ResTalk is needed by Weezing for recovery if Sand is up (cause Leftover is negated), and running ResTalk means that it can only run two other moves, which is fine on stuff like Suicune, Pert etc cause they can still get all they need to done (like Cune has Surf+Roar/CM+Roar/CM+Surf) but Weezing needs different moves for certain threats: Explosion/Haze/Pain Split/WoW/Sludge Bomb/Fire Blast/Thunderbolt, and it cant run all of them in two slots so yeah it cant cover as many threats and is more susceptible to Special hits and being worn down than stuff like Pert for example
nicely bluffing the surf yn
Idk CM+Roar+ResTalk was Bad Ass's set not mine.
Anyways you can all celebrate: I won't be posting for a while cause I'm pretty sick
Anyways you can all celebrate: I won't be posting for a while cause I'm pretty sick
gonna agree with gorgie and say that weezing is not great. A physical wall that is weak to sand and doesn't have much HP is not very good. I haven't explored the offensive set but if I need a fighting check for my offensive team, I probably already have a boomer so I'm just gonna choose Mence, and if I don't have a boomer then I'm likely running CM, Aero Sand, or a double trap squad.
Controversial shit: Snorlax is S, Suicune is top of A, and Jirachi is about equal with Heracross.
Will explain when feeling less lazy
Controversial shit: Snorlax is S, Suicune is top of A, and Jirachi is about equal with Heracross.
Will explain when feeling less lazy