Mega Ampharos is B rank, we get it. Can we move on to another mon? How about Regenerator AV Tangrowth? One of the best Grass walls in the OU meta.
(Thanks to Wiz BITG for showing me it)
(Thanks to Wiz BITG for showing me it)
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)
- Thread starter alexwolf
- Start date
- Status
If you look in the OP, you'll see that Darmanitan is a Blacklisted Pokemon, and I can tell you from personal experience that unless you have more on the table to bring than "It hits like a truck", it's not going to get ranked because its 1 pro (power) is heavily outweighed by its cons and it's utterly outclassed by Entei and Victini alone, not to mention all of the other wallbreakers that are either faster or bulkier.
Nidoking is not getting ranked, use Landorus. Nidoking is very frail to take advantage of its great defensive typing, as Pokemon such as Terrakion and Mega Heracross, whose STABs it resists, 2HKO it anyway, so the main reason to use it over Landorus (defensive typing) is not a real reason in practice.
What about Nidoqueens does the addded bulk help her or is it the same problem as king?
Idk but it would take a lot of support to convince me to include Nidoqueen in D rank and probably some solid replays.
I'm not saying she is D rank just theorymoning as the added bulk really helps in underused so may help here, maybe a better player than me with queen knowledge could enlighten us.
If Nidoqueen has some niches that deserve to be mentioned then go ahead and mention them. TBH I doubt she's as good to deserve a place in any team, the only niches I can see are that she can check Terrakion and Heracross while providing Toxic Spikes support, but there are better pokèmon that can still check these 2 mons and Toxic Spikes aren't really important and used and the current metagame anyways..
Terrakion are known to carry Earthquake and occasionally HP Ice, Nidoqueen is hardly effective against Terrakion. Also...
+2 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Nidoqueen: 230-275 (60 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Nidoqueen comes in on SD and is cleanly 2HKO by Pin Missle, and what exactly can it do outside of perhaps get a Toxic off or Dragon Tail it away to die later? If it has a niche, checking these two is not it. OU is no place for these two.
Just adding that a Sheer Force Life, Orb Nidoking/queen OHKOs Thundurus while suriviving HP Ice (Psychic will OHKO it every time without some HP evs). Terrakion fears the FocusMiss. Nidoking can also out speeds and OHKO Azumaril. It can OHKO CharX if it happens to attempt to DD instead of attack. So it does have uses in taking out some top threats, but like you said, there are stronger choices.
Nominating Diggersby for A;
This nomination might seem crazy but nope. This thing is a monster, capable of killing 2 mons per match and weakening Lando-t for other teammates to sweep, its sheer power and priority makes it very strong and now that skarmory are scared to show up with all the magnezones around, this thing is way better than before. It resists rocks so it has no problems switching in and even if this thing doesnt have a lot of bulk, it can come in on predicted resisted attacks. Yeah ik u can rk it with things like terrak and shit but only after it's killed something pretty much and ik gengar walls it but you know, there are teammates to help him with that. It also deals with stall pretty nicely, it is even better than the mega wall breakers sometimes(against stall), as stall is using doublade and shit.
This nomination might seem crazy but nope. This thing is a monster, capable of killing 2 mons per match and weakening Lando-t for other teammates to sweep, its sheer power and priority makes it very strong and now that skarmory are scared to show up with all the magnezones around, this thing is way better than before. It resists rocks so it has no problems switching in and even if this thing doesnt have a lot of bulk, it can come in on predicted resisted attacks. Yeah ik u can rk it with things like terrak and shit but only after it's killed something pretty much and ik gengar walls it but you know, there are teammates to help him with that. It also deals with stall pretty nicely, it is even better than the mega wall breakers sometimes(against stall), as stall is using doublade and shit.
Diggersby is a mediocre version of Azumarill…
It gets 2 sets and both are not too good…
Its defensive typing is horrible
loses to popular threats (Ex. Terrakion, Scarfchomp, MAYBE Scarf Lando T)
IMO its fine as A-/B+. Its not even close to A.
Uh SD diggersby with life orb or sash is really good so I have no idea where you got that wild assumption from. Its other sets aren't even as bad you're making them out to be. They asked for a nomination to A not to something like S so its not as ridiculous as you make it sound.
Nevertheless Diggersby isn't exactly what I'd call a great mon.
At 78 base speed he is very slow for a sweeper and has to rely on choice scarf or quick attack to outspeed things. It has some good wallbreaking potential I admit but he is just outclassed with some niches that may be desirable but it is definitely shouldn't be the first pick when looking for powerhouses. Diggersby is cool at A-.
At 78 base speed he is very slow for a sweeper and has to rely on choice scarf or quick attack to outspeed things. It has some good wallbreaking potential I admit but he is just outclassed with some niches that may be desirable but it is definitely shouldn't be the first pick when looking for powerhouses. Diggersby is cool at A-.
I am suggesting Tyranitar and its mega go up in Rank to A+ because of Insane Stat Total, Great Moveset, Unbeatable Bulk in Sandstorm, Usage in Sand Teams, Powerful Damage without Investing being necessary and more. http://prntscr.com/4k1960 This shows even the most powerful of pokemon in OU no matter the Type still can struggle with Tyranitar especially as a special attacker. Tyranitar is widely considered not broken for its flaws of Bad Typing, and taking up a mega slot however to be fair blaziken took a mega and had not perfect typing. Blaziken Mega has worst stats in almost every stat (excluding Sp Att by about 39 and Speed by 29), It still loses in Sp Def by 40, Def By 70 Hp by 20 and Attack by 4. Tyranitar is more broken than some of the S-Rank Pokémon and it is necessary to take action.
Last edited:
You yourself said it, he's a wallbreaker, not a sweeper. 78 base speed is great for a wallbreaker.
What is he outclassed by exactly? Terrakion doesn't have priority, azumarill doesn't have reliable set up, zard x takes up a mega slot. Yes, these mons are all better than diggersby, but that is why they are ranked higher. Diggersby has a unique combination of traits that allow him to act as a breaker in tandem with these pokemon, breaking down mutual checks and counters.
I've never used diggersby, but I don't feel he should move up, due to his only ok performance against offense, and his frailty. His typing is terrible defensively and he isn't bulky at all. I'm not necessarily against moving him up, but I personally don't think he is as useful as say, garchomp.
I personally have been using Diggersby with a scarf set, and although it sometimes misses Swords dance, it provides revenge killing duties as well as acting as a strong switch into Thundurus' Thunderbolt, which it proceeds to KO with return or gain momentum with U-Turn. Scarf outspeeds and KOs Greninja, Latis, non-scarf Keldeo (with wild charge), Landorus, and Mold Breaker Excadrill just to name a few. Scarf Diggersby is very good and it's other set makes it A worthy. Diggersby for A
Pros of Diggersby: He doesn't take up a Mega Slot, so you can have a powerful wallbreaker and still have a Mega Evolution on your team. To set himself from the Mega wallbreakers, he can hold other items, so he can use a Focus Sash to make up for his middling bulk, or a Choice Scarf so he isn't overly dependant on Quick Attack to finish off a foe, thus creating some flexibility with his sets and unpredictability when he's approaching someone. Normal / Ground coverage is only resisted by Skarmory, which has gone down in popularity, Aerodactyl, which has gained some popularity but doesn't take kindly to Wild Charge, and Trevenant and Gourgeist, which are never seen these days, so he has freedom with his remaining two moveslots.
Cons of Diggersby: His Attack is literally the only good stat he has when factoring in Huge Power, as his average bulk and mediocre Speed greatly limit his revenge killing role. Mega Heracross can tank hits well to make up for his low Speed, while Mega Medicham makes up for lack of bulk with good Speed; Diggersby has both their flaws but the only real strength that he has to cover said weakness is being able to hold an item. You also only have a distinct vulnerability to priority, with weaknesses to Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, and Mach Punch, and Talonflame's Brave Bird being able to OHKO almost every time with Stealth Rocks.
Right now, I'm against Diggersby moving up, as his bad stats outside of Attack with Huge Power, bad defensive typing, and over-reliance on Quick Attack or Choice Scarf to outspeed most relevant threats means that he requires a good amount of team support to perform well. Keep Diggersby at A-.
Cons of Diggersby: His Attack is literally the only good stat he has when factoring in Huge Power, as his average bulk and mediocre Speed greatly limit his revenge killing role. Mega Heracross can tank hits well to make up for his low Speed, while Mega Medicham makes up for lack of bulk with good Speed; Diggersby has both their flaws but the only real strength that he has to cover said weakness is being able to hold an item. You also only have a distinct vulnerability to priority, with weaknesses to Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, and Mach Punch, and Talonflame's Brave Bird being able to OHKO almost every time with Stealth Rocks.
Right now, I'm against Diggersby moving up, as his bad stats outside of Attack with Huge Power, bad defensive typing, and over-reliance on Quick Attack or Choice Scarf to outspeed most relevant threats means that he requires a good amount of team support to perform well. Keep Diggersby at A-.
Last edited:
A rank is as ridiculous as I make it sound. When you score an A on your test, how do you feel? Is it like an "Oh, an A, I get those all the time haha" or more like "Oh my gosh! An A! Amazing!" Now, if it was me, Id be surprised to get an A. The point I'm getting across is that A rank is important.
Also, its like we forget hazards. Atleast 33% of all teams have SOME sort of Stealth Rock pokemon, which can lead to Diggersby losing his Sash bonus, making him open prey with his shit defenses. Im kinda warming up to Scarf Diggersby, but thats too weak. Overall, Diggersby relies on setting up on SD to win, and with its ass defensive typing and defense, it probably won't happen.
Keep this rodent at A-
I would also like to note that Doublade is in C rank, which I think its not a C rank mon. It has the same versatility as Aegislash (Except no Kings Shield) which can be replaced by Protect. It can run Eviolite to boost its defenses to the point where its hard to hurt it defensively. Sadly, I don't think it is good, but an SD+Shadow Claw combo, you know?
DBlade basically has the same move pool as Aegislash except its not as over centralizing or overpowered. I think it should be moved up to C+ or B-.
Edit: Albacore caught me on this: DBlade is meant for a buffy wall who can have sweeping potential, but does not have the same versatility of Aegi.
Last edited:
First, stats =/= viability. Otherwise Regigigas and Slaking would be OU. (I know stats are important, but you can't just say it has a insane stat total)
It does indeed have a good Movepool to work with, making it quite unpredictable
As for the Sand thing, A. Only it's Special Defencd is raised in Sand, and B. Tyrantiar is the reason Sand teams exist (Sure ya got Hippowdon... But it's Hippowdon)
And Mega Alakazam is a BAD example of Tys power. Because A. Its a SE STAB, it's GOING to hurt. And B. ALAKAZAMS DEFENCE IS GARBAGE.
Also, you don't have to use Mega Ttar. No really, you don't.
Moreover, YOU'RE COMPARING TTAR WITH BLAZIKEN. THEY SERVE DIFFERENT ROLES 99% OF THE TIME (Yes Ttar can be a DDance Sweeper, as can Blaziken, but TY can run other things.)
And Blaziken was banned because Speed Boost + Swords Dance + Baton Pass with passable bulk (Ninjask and Scollipede aren't as bad)
Also, HOW IS TTAR MORE BROKEN THAN CHARIZARD X, KELDEO, LANDORUS, THUNDURUS AND AZUMARILL
TL;DR.
I'm a douchebag because I just tore this a new one.
Oh, and Ttar is fine where it is
I think A- is good for Diggs. He has several cons that keep him at that place, most notably his terrible typing. Also, he can't fit in a way to get by Skarm without giving up strong STAB (Earthquake or Return), priority or a set-up move. The Choice Scarf set does have some merit, especially with a powerful U-Turn to gain momentum. Overall, it's a good weapon against stall because it can force switches and lure out Skarm. Diggs and Magnezone can be a good start to an anti-stall core. Ultimately he really needs that Skarm trapping which is pretty big support and he still struggles with Quag on top of that. I think Normal typing drags him down more than anything else. He should stay firmly in A-, but not drop lower.
It looks like his set is made JUST to counter Mega Alakazam. No not even counter, check actually.
Some Alakazam carry Hp fire, so Scizor dosent check or counter Mega Alakazam with HP Fire. Bullet Punch dosent kill either.
Are you implying that because SOME Alakazams run HP fire Scizor isn't a hard counter?
Are you on something? Also: some calcs
252+ Atk Mega Scizor Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 248-292 (98.4 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 169-201 (67 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Unless HP Fire, nothing Zam has can 2hko MScizor, making it a check.
Are you on something? Also: some calcs
252+ Atk Mega Scizor Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 248-292 (98.4 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 169-201 (67 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Unless HP Fire, nothing Zam has can 2hko MScizor, making it a check.
I only pointed out your logic behind Diggersby cause it made no real sense when you originally answered it. As any competent team has SR, every competent team has hazard removal or at least something to thwart that to a slight degree. So really I don't see how that's a big concern either if we're talking about the sash set. Regardless I'm against Diggersby moving up simply for all the reasons stated already by others.
While it's being mentioned I don't know about Doublade being moved up honestly. It's one of the better C ranked mons, if not the best out of all of them, but I feel like the only reason it would rise is due to being better than some of the C+ ranked mons in an overall sense. C rank needs work to though.
Ttar can stay in A. Originally I considered it an A+ mon but after using a lot more especially now in the current meta, it fits the role of A pretty well. Solid mon with a need of some basic support.
k gonna do something i never would have done before
-> C-
Salamence is quite honestly not bad itself. Just ferociously outclassed, and even then can find its way on to some dragmag teams because of its great cleaning capabilities. The only set it should be running in this meta is Choice Scarf, since it faces the least competition and actually has some advantages over its competition. Garchomp is almost always the superior choice for a Dragon- type scarfer, but Salamence can fill in that spot if you need Garchomp for something else on your team(there is actually quite a lot Garchomp can do) and they even form a good double dragon core. And when we look at C- rank, we have Haxorus, a similarly niche Dragon- type. I think they are on par, and Salamence quite honestly isn't as horrendous as the rest of D rank.
also i should post a replay showcasing what it can do
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-160525110
(ik its not azu offense but i mean mence was da real mvp, not even against a shit player)
-> C-Salamence is quite honestly not bad itself. Just ferociously outclassed, and even then can find its way on to some dragmag teams because of its great cleaning capabilities. The only set it should be running in this meta is Choice Scarf, since it faces the least competition and actually has some advantages over its competition. Garchomp is almost always the superior choice for a Dragon- type scarfer, but Salamence can fill in that spot if you need Garchomp for something else on your team(there is actually quite a lot Garchomp can do) and they even form a good double dragon core. And when we look at C- rank, we have Haxorus, a similarly niche Dragon- type. I think they are on par, and Salamence quite honestly isn't as horrendous as the rest of D rank.
also i should post a replay showcasing what it can do
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-160525110
(ik its not azu offense but i mean mence was da real mvp, not even against a shit player)
Last edited:
- Status