Pinsir can be walled.
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Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
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And mega Pinsir is one of the most powerful SOBs in Pokemon.
Slowbro doesnt counter Chari X. Chari can easily boost with DD/SD and heal with Roost while Bro can do nothing (beside TWave)
But Mence have DD, Imtimidate, a better Bulk and a higher Speed.... Thats the same thing like if you say that Rampardos is better than Bisharp because of the higher attack...
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But Mence have DD, Imtimidate, a better Bulk and a higher Speed.... Thats the same thing like if you say that Rampardos is better than Bisharp because of the higher attack...
I'm disappointed that there hasn't been more discussion about Mega Audino. People have been brushing it under the rug cause it lost regenerator, but I think I could be a decnt cleric/wishpasser. 103/126/126 bulk is pretty good and the better mixed bulk is what keeps it from being outclassed by other defensive faries. Not having lefties kinda suck though as well as that normal typing which keeps it from being the great check to fighting types that it could've been.
If you already have DD up Mega Gross is ohko and so is Mega Sceptile and maybe Diance if you run EQ, the only new counters Zard has are Mega Bro and Mega Altaria and as for Swampert you can always run Energy Ball Gothielle to trap and kill it out of the rain
The thing with audino is that it just has nothing going for it that isn't going for Sylveon or heck, even florges. It may be UU by virtue of stats, but OU simply has better fairy walls to choose from.
There are better options for Wishpassers that pass bigger or roughly equivalent Wishes, have better offensive presence and/or bulk, and don't take up a Mega Slot.
Audino is pretty much pathetic, both for Singles and even Doubles since Clerics aren't exactly in high demand and Cresselia is better overall.
Can't calculate now but can Hoopa or Hydreigon break the core? Hoopa has Shadow Ball + Psyshock while Hydreigon has Dark Pulse + Superpower.
Yeah, nevermind. The damage calc filled the ivs automatically even with the blank set.
Damn, all those +2 calcs. Mega Bro could run Fire Blast I guess but it probably isn't the most prime option.
Uh, I would very much like to meet the Sylveon you've raise with 100/126/126 bulk. That is certainly impressive. I can see stall opting for Audino as the mega, since stall usually has free reign in terms of choosing a mega to use. People should definitely not be counting Mega Audino out, it has some serious Hippowdon level bulk (it's actually more physically bulky than Hippo o_O) in both defenses and a fine selection of support options. Can definitely see it getting some use.
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It's stronger than pinsir because it can afford running Adamant nature, not to mention its huge movepool including Outrage, Draco Meteor, Defog, Roost, Wish, Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, Hyper Voice and Dragon Dance, while Pinsir is literally only limited to Return, Close Combat, Quick Attack, Swords Dance and Earthquake.
Outrage is a thing of the past, isnt it? Dragon Claw is the to go Physical Dragon attack and it is a lot weaker which means stuff like rotom, zapdos can take it with relative comfort.
not so sure about your not needing to set up statement either because mega pinsir has higher attack and is still a relative soft-hitter without SD
Heatran should be able to wall any set without earthquake but i'm on phone so cant do calc. toxicstall, flash cannon, HP ice, etc.
mence is certainly scary but i think it is manageable
Yeah I was doing some calcs for Mega Lopunny damage up against other megas. Lopunny laughs in Mega Sableye's face but good god it doesn't even scratch Mega Slowbro with the lack of crits not helping.
Mega pinsir is a relatively soft hitter without a SD boost? Wut?
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Nothing soft about that. Mega pinsir is still a mini nuke at netural.
ok by "soft", i didnt mean base 100 attack "soft", Pinsir still packs a punch but without SD, it is just easier to play around
So, it's safe to say the viability rankings are toast.
Charizard X: outclassed by MMence
Greninja: outsped after turn 1 by a lot of new threats
Keldeo: terrible speed tier now
Latios: beaten by a lot of the new dragons
Every S Rank is going to drop. Charizard will probably go back as soon as we ban salamence, but it's safe to say we're going to hate life for a few weeks while the meta settles
Charizard X: outclassed by MMence
Greninja: outsped after turn 1 by a lot of new threats
Keldeo: terrible speed tier now
Latios: beaten by a lot of the new dragons
Every S Rank is going to drop. Charizard will probably go back as soon as we ban salamence, but it's safe to say we're going to hate life for a few weeks while the meta settles
Are you kidding me? The most prominent Dragon in OU, Charizard, almost exclusively runs Outrage. Same with Dragonite. Locking yourself into Outrage doesn't ahve any worse effects now with Fairies than it did last gen with Steels. You're still locked into it regardless, and a Fairy switching in on Outrage actually stops you from being forced into it again, so that's actually BETTER than using it against a Steel type like Ferrothorn.
Pinsir hits hard as fuck, what are you talking about? And besides, Mence has incredible mixed stats, which is the whole point of using a set with no setup move.
Heatran can wall any set besides ones with EQ, except that mixed will run EQ and it actually gets 2HKOed by +1 Thrash, so not much of a wall. Also only Scarf runs Flash Cannon and HP Ice (Flash isn't doing shit, btw), which gets outsped at +1, dies to a possible EQ on the switch, and takes around 70% from Thrash. Also, HP Ice isn't even guaranteed to KO Mence and that's MODEST. Timid has only an 18% chance.
Mence is scary, not manageable, and will break the tier. But for the mod's sake, I won't continue this argument since we shouldn't talk about banning mons anyway.
I'm a bit late, but oh well (16 pages in a day? Oy). I'll just make a few general points.
I'm slightly worried about the continuation of the silly large power creep brought on by these new Megas, but I'm much more worried about the speed creep. 100 speed is no longer "good enough" for an offensive poke in a meta with things like M-Mence, M-Gross, or even BirdJeshua Jesus. Granted, Fairies will make M-Mence dragonspam quite a bit more difficult than in gens 4/5, but most viable fairies (bar M-Diancie?) will crumple under the weight of (possibly DD-boosted) Aerilate Returns, and even M-Diancie is susceptible to EQ coverage.
Only a few Megas are defensive; M-Venu and M-Slowbro are the best examples, but these will work because they both have reliable recovery. Even though M-Steelix and M-Aggron have insane Defense, their special bulk is feh and they lack reliable recovery. This does not bode well for Stall because a small group of defensive non-Megas are already stretched too thin trying to wall M-Medi, M-Hera, and M-Gardevoir.
I'm slightly worried about the continuation of the silly large power creep brought on by these new Megas, but I'm much more worried about the speed creep. 100 speed is no longer "good enough" for an offensive poke in a meta with things like M-Mence, M-Gross, or even Bird
Only a few Megas are defensive; M-Venu and M-Slowbro are the best examples, but these will work because they both have reliable recovery. Even though M-Steelix and M-Aggron have insane Defense, their special bulk is feh and they lack reliable recovery. This does not bode well for Stall because a small group of defensive non-Megas are already stretched too thin trying to wall M-Medi, M-Hera, and M-Gardevoir.
Dude I highly doubt your knowledge of the meta if you call Pinsir a soft hitter. 1/2HKOing almost the entire meta with an Unboosted Return (not counting resisted hits) is nothing to scoff at. After a boost, only floating electric types can hope to stomache his hits. Just think about that next time you try and call Pinsir soft.
There should be no doubt that Mega Beedrill won't be great in OU; i thought that people were excited just with the thought of Beedrill being viable in OU. Horrible bulk, horrible typing, SR weak on a Pokemon whose biggest selling point is U-turn, and being easy to counter all mean that Mega Beedrill will be a niche option in OU at best. But, still, we are talking about Beedrill here, the fact it even has a chance of being used competitively in OU is miraculous and hilarious!
Mega Diancie is looking great with the addition of Earth Power to its moveset, great 160 / 160 offense, and 110 base Speed. Outside of max HP / max Def+ Chansey, physically defensive Mega Venusaur, and specially defensive Jirachi, it has no hard counters with a moveset of Diamond Storm / Moonblast / Earth Power / Hidden Power Fire. It even got Heal Bell for some nice offensive cleric action, a role that OU has been missing, which also makes it an even better Heatran switch in. Mega Diance also provides an awesome offensive check to Mega Pinsir and Mega Charizard X if it has already MEvolved, two of the scariest offensive threats in OU before ORAS, which is very nice as well. Checking Mega Altaria is sweet too. Talonflame seems as an excellent partner to Mega Diancie, as it appreciates the anti-SR support and can beat all the Pokemon that counter Diancie, especially Steel-types. Just make sure to pack a sturdy check to Water-types, as they are problems for both Pokemon.
With Mega Slowbro, Mega Sableye, Mega Altaria, Mega Metagross, Mega Gallade, and even Mega Sceptile to an extend, the metagame seems like it will focus a lot on set up sweepers, especially bulky boosters. Stallbreakers such as Mew, Talonflame, and Gliscor also seem to have taken a hit, because Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye give them big troubles.
Let's see some good answers to those new, threatening set up sweepers:
Mega Diancie is looking great with the addition of Earth Power to its moveset, great 160 / 160 offense, and 110 base Speed. Outside of max HP / max Def+ Chansey, physically defensive Mega Venusaur, and specially defensive Jirachi, it has no hard counters with a moveset of Diamond Storm / Moonblast / Earth Power / Hidden Power Fire. It even got Heal Bell for some nice offensive cleric action, a role that OU has been missing, which also makes it an even better Heatran switch in. Mega Diance also provides an awesome offensive check to Mega Pinsir and Mega Charizard X if it has already MEvolved, two of the scariest offensive threats in OU before ORAS, which is very nice as well. Checking Mega Altaria is sweet too. Talonflame seems as an excellent partner to Mega Diancie, as it appreciates the anti-SR support and can beat all the Pokemon that counter Diancie, especially Steel-types. Just make sure to pack a sturdy check to Water-types, as they are problems for both Pokemon.
With Mega Slowbro, Mega Sableye, Mega Altaria, Mega Metagross, Mega Gallade, and even Mega Sceptile to an extend, the metagame seems like it will focus a lot on set up sweepers, especially bulky boosters. Stallbreakers such as Mew, Talonflame, and Gliscor also seem to have taken a hit, because Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye give them big troubles.
Let's see some good answers to those new, threatening set up sweepers:
- Mega Slowbro (Calm Mind): Toxic Chansey (for Scald + Psyshock sets), Unaware CM Clefable, SD Poison Heal Breloom (for CroBro), SubDD Mega Gyarados with dual STABs, NP Celebi, Guts Heracross (if Slowbro lacks Psyshock), SD Toxicroak (for CroBro), Mega Sableye, stallbreaker Mew
- Mega Sableye (Calm Mind): Mega Gardevoir (Shadow Ball doesn't even 2HKO without SR), Taunt Mega Gyarados, CM Clefable, Mega Lopunny (must avoid WoW on the switch though, or have cleric support), SD and BU Talonflame, SD, DD, and max Atk Adamant Roost + 3 attacks Mega Charizard X, CM Suicune, Guts Heracross, Nasty Plot Mega Houndoom, Swords Dance Mega Absol, Facade Mega Altaria
- Mega Altaria (Dragon Dance): Slowbro, Mega Slowbro, Quagsire, Unaware Clefable, Mega Metagross, Mega Scizor, Mega Venusaur, Skarmory (for sets lacking Fire Blast), Heatran (for sets lacking Earthquake), Doublade, Bronzong, Jirachi (for sets lacking Earthquake), Rotom-W (for sets lacking Heal Bell), Ferrothorn (for sets lacking Fire Blast), Talonflame (for sets lacking Dragon moves), Empoleon (for sets lacking Earthquake and Heal Bell), Mega Aggron
- Mega Metagross (Agility): Slowbro (for sets lacking Thunderpunch), Mega Slowbro, Landorus-T (for sets lacking Ice Punch), physically defensive Hippowdon, Alomomola, Quagsire, Roost Mega Scizor, Ferrothorn, Rotom-W, Mega Gyarados with Crunch (for sets lacking Thunderpunch), Bisharp, Mega Swampert
- Mega Gallade (Swords Dance): Unaware Clefable, Mega Sableye, Sableye
- Mega Sceptile (Swords Dance): Skarmory, Mega Scizor, Ferrothorn, Mega Metagross, Unaware Clefable, Mega Venusaur, Landorus-T, Amoonguss, Togekiss (for sets lacking Thunderpunch), Mega Altaria, Cresselia, Mandibuzz
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1- Mence is Definitely going to be banned, so it wont really affect Zard in the long run as probably the Best dragon in Ou
2-what exactly out classes? greninja nothing has his coverage and only 2 of the new megas are faster, both having different roles
3- Yeah Keldeo is in an awkward situation
4- again only really beaten by sceptile in OU because Mence isnt going to be in OU for more than a couple of weeks
But really I see little talk about Altaria that thing can really be good.
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