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Gen 6 Omega Ruby / Alpha Sapphire Mega Evo discussion
- Thread starter Theorymon
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The problem with this is opportunity cost. You give up your mega slot (and ability to use megamence or megaray) for something that frankly doesn't do much else besides counter Zek. And with Megagroudon, zekrom is gonna face a lot of competition for a slot. Even then, better options exist. You can always run a fairy+ground to counter it anyways, and you also get the ability to check other things. On top of that, steelix is dreadfully slow. It's just gonna be a subpar pokemon with no niche.
Now, something crossed my mind. That something being that the soul dew affects the Mega Latis' stats. This could mean that the Lati@site may not be the only item to Mega Evolve the latis. Why would Nintendo do this? Well, I Nintendo was originally going to use the soul dew on the Mega Latis, but, since you cant bring soul dew into the battle frontier (can Soul Dew be used in Official Nintendo Tournaments), GF and Nintendo probably thought to make the Lati@site, so we can bring the mega latis into battle tower without using soul dew.
It's a neat idea, but 1) no Prankster WoW after MEvo is unfortunate and kind of hampers the "bulky" aspect on the physical side, and 2) it still has bad SpD and dies easily on the special side as well. So it's not actually very bulky (no Lefties even) and doesn't get to neuter physical threats in case of emergency.
Diancie is similarly frail but boasts extraordinary offensive presence off of either attack stat. Oh, and it's fast. Just use Diancie for bouncing purposes IMO.
Diancie is similarly frail but boasts extraordinary offensive presence off of either attack stat. Oh, and it's fast. Just use Diancie for bouncing purposes IMO.
To add to what Alert to Sounds already noted, Fairies will also be a hindrance to Sableye, and the opportunity cost of using up a mega slot for something that's kinda mesh isn't that great.
Megamence outclasses megaray? I'dont think I'm okay with that.Double edge does 10% more output than Dragon ascent,but the recoil is terrible.Return would be a better choice,but with less power than DA.Megamence is a better physical tank,but UB is a more specially-based game,and it's 4X weakness to ice and 2X weakness to rock type will be a big drawback.So I think M Ray is a better DD sweeper than Megamence if running DD with 3 STAB,but megamence can also make a good use of roost and refresh to make a different.
Also the SD and the mixed attack use of Mega Ray makes it a better choice,and I think they may be more devastating than DD.
Also the SD and the mixed attack use of Mega Ray makes it a better choice,and I think they may be more devastating than DD.
I think Mega Sableye's biggest issue is that it just isn't bulky enough. It needs full investment in SDef to take two Meteors from support Dialga, but then you lose to support Groudon, and you need full investment in Defense to take 2 Earthquakes from Groudon, but then Dialga beats you. So it can only really beat one of the 2 most common SR setters (it owns Deoxys though). Primal Groudon is also an even bigger pain as it is immune to Wisp and can potentially fish for a 2HKO against fully invested Mega Sableye with Precipice Blades even with no Attack investment. Sableye needs Prankster - Priority Wisp/Taunt are its biggest niches and priority Recover is important to its longevity.
A cool niche it does have is that it is a perfect Stalltwo counter for all Mewtwo formes, boasting immunity to Psychic and Fighting while Magic Bounce reflects Taunt and Will-O-Wisp. I don't think that's enough of a reason to use the Mega though.
A cool niche it does have is that it is a perfect Stalltwo counter for all Mewtwo formes, boasting immunity to Psychic and Fighting while Magic Bounce reflects Taunt and Will-O-Wisp. I don't think that's enough of a reason to use the Mega though.
I do believe Mega Sableye has a thing going for it potentially. I sometimes like to built teams around offensive Arceus forms and a bulky Magic Bouncer can free up the need of a Defog Arceus so giving more freedom to use offensive Arceus.
I don't know what exactly Stalltwo is suppose to check, counter? Lol It might be good against stall but thats mostly an obsolete playstyle these days. It won't even be able to check Groudon in ORAS anymore.
I don't know what exactly Stalltwo is suppose to check, counter? Lol It might be good against stall but thats mostly an obsolete playstyle these days. It won't even be able to check Groudon in ORAS anymore.
The issue I have with Mega magic bounce users is that on top of the questions of whether they can actually switch in on the hazard users they're attempting to block, you've also got the issue that they have to find an opportunity to MEvo before the opponent can bring their hazard setter in- against a lot of teams that can be tough as hell. I guess if you're fine with SR going up but want to stop spike stacking teams going nuts as well as mucking up a lot of dedicated leads then they're adequate.
That said, I don't think MSableye will be at all Uber viable, idk about MDiancie, it'll probably be good tho (nifty typing+good offenses)
That said, I don't think MSableye will be at all Uber viable, idk about MDiancie, it'll probably be good tho (nifty typing+good offenses)
Has anyone been able to build successful stall in this new meta full of powerful threats?
I think offensive Primal Groudon may be better off running max attack with investment in bulk running Swords Dance.
+2 Precipice Blades does 106-125% to neutral 252 HP Arceus.
+2 Fire Punch falls just short of an OHKO the chance of 252 HP Arceus living is very very low. 99.5-117.5%
Non-resist support Arceus cannot switch in to it.
Scarf Kyogre, Zekrom and Xerneas cannot revenge Primal Groudon. It also takes pittance from priorty moves.
Mewtwo can outspeed but don't have a supereffective move against it and its strongest move, Psystrike will be hitting against 160 defense.
Offensive Primal Groudon
Max Attack
- Swords Dance
- Precipice Blades / Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Rock Polish / Fire Punch
+2 Precipice Blades does 106-125% to neutral 252 HP Arceus.
+2 Fire Punch falls just short of an OHKO the chance of 252 HP Arceus living is very very low. 99.5-117.5%
Non-resist support Arceus cannot switch in to it.
Scarf Kyogre, Zekrom and Xerneas cannot revenge Primal Groudon. It also takes pittance from priorty moves.
Mewtwo can outspeed but don't have a supereffective move against it and its strongest move, Psystrike will be hitting against 160 defense.
Offensive Primal Groudon
Max Attack
- Swords Dance
- Precipice Blades / Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Rock Polish / Fire Punch
I too am liking the way that mega diancie is looking for oras ubers. Obviously there is a massive oppurtunity cost using it over mega ray/mence however it can pull its weight against stall balance and HO teams.
Against HO it easily beats common leads such as deo-s, scolipede, and has enough speed and power to threaten slower offensive mons.
Against balance it really thrives being able to conpletely wall lugia, diaglga leads (most dont carry a steel move), tyranitar, klefki, darkrai (sludge bomb doesnt do much), skarmory, giratina and giratina-o depending on set/spread.
Diancie also bicely/loosely checks common threats such as ho oh, heatran (if you have earth power), palkia, mega ray and mence before mevo, yveltal, reshiram, and non scarf kyruem white and resisted suppourtceus forms. It can also hit groudon primal semi hard with earth power.
And it is the best shuckle counter . Ubers teams often run pokemon like absol and espeon just for magic bounce. But now a viable ubers pokemon has it. Diancie does lose to the new and probably very popular primal forms 1 v 1.
The only downside is no recovery :( oh yeah and clear body can avoid things like shadow ball/psychic drop on the switch. Am i wrong in saying diancie is the third best new mega?
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Okay, so i'm just going to do a bit of theorymonning here, but I think that xern will actually be BETTER in ORAS. Why? because Primal Groudon beats every common geoxern check possible. Aegis? nope. Lugia? uh-uh. Ho-oh? nope. megascizor? Heck no. even other primal Dons lose to a suprise special set. However, xern will want to run HP ground from now on. It still hits the common switchins and most importantly beats Primal Don.
Primal Groudon actually survives a +2 Hidden Power Ground fairly easily with some bulk investment, so no it's not necessarily a free win.
I think things will overall be harder for Xerneas - ORAS is looking to be a very offensive metagame which means fewer safe setups, and Primal Groudon being a very solid Xerneas check further complicates things. It will still be incredibly deadly, however.
Yeah, primal groundon beats all of geoxerns checks, but none of his checks are going to be foolish enough to stay in on primal don ever. What primal don CAN do is weaken enemy teams to the point where geoxern can sweep, but most strong attackers can do that. Geoxern is the type of sweeper that benefits more from lure sets (so something like e-belt genesect or flamethrower arceus) as opposed to hard stops to his checks (though those certainly help).
The thing with geoxern is that he pretty much has one chance to sweep. If his checks aren't dead or weakened by the time he begins to sweep, he's not going to pull it off and will turn into a mediocre special attacker for the rest of the match (not useless by any means, just mediocre).
I don't think Xerneas can any get better than it already is right now, even though I don't deny that Primal Groudon could help Geomancy Xerneas out, there's something that could be considered uncompetitve that it's buffering it,Shadow Tag mons, those can help beat all of the checks and counters you mentioned in your post, I'm not going to mention them because that would be getting off topic. If you really want to know there's a Shadow Tag suspect test that I highly suggest you to look at :]
In my mind Ditto is something that thrives in a meta that is unstable due to a flood of offensive threats, as it's something that can be pretty much mindlessly slapped on a team and then you don't have to worry about revenging offensive threats. That'll be the case initially, but eventually the meta will settle and people will learn to adapt to the new threats and so after an initial spike in usage it'll probably settle back down again I imagine. I could be wrong tho (this is pure theory), especially since all 3 will likely be known for their offensive sets more so than defensive ones (to say the least).
Calling bullshit on this. We'll see in a few weeks, tho.
Even though Ho-Oh can't exploit PDon's sun, their defensive synergy is pretty nifty. Ho-Oh is immune to Donner's single weakness, and Donner is immune to 2 of Ho-Oh's weaknesses. Add in a Rock resist and you could actually have a pretty neat offensive/defensive core in one.
As soon as ORAS Ubers starts I'm going to try out Ho-oh/MegaLati@s/ExtremeKiller. Mega Lati@s will be an excellent Defogger and a very effective check to the Primal Duo, as well as outspeeding and KOing Mega Rayquaza. Ho-Oh is always wonderful in a hazardless environment and is very effective at wrecking shit for Extreme Killer to clean up later. By using Mega Lati@s, I don't have to worry about throwing in some support Arceus; it will more than likely be the premier Defogger of the new tier.
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